Difficult Decision, Israeli Schools Vs. Us

[DR. BOSTON]

Hi Everyone-

I'm really in a little bit of a bind and wanted to see if anyone could shed some light on this situation....

I have been accepted to Ben Gurion Medical School for International Health w/ Columbia collaboration...I hope to get accepted to Sackler and I have been accepted to SUNY downstate medical school in brooklyn..

I was really hoping to go to Sackler because all my extended family is there and I think it would be an incredible experience, to be in a country that I love very much and would really consider moving there...however, everyone is saying that as far as my career opportunity goes, there is no question that I should stay in New York (and go to SUNY downstate)..

Im wondering what people think about this. . .

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[a_ditchdoc]

...however, everyone is saying that as far as my career opportunity goes, there is no question that I should stay in New York (and go to SUNY downstate)..

Im wondering what people think about this. . .

It very much depends on what you want with your career. If you hope to pursue a highly competitive specialty, the US would be better suited for you. If you want to attend an American style school in Israel, with the advantages of a large city and family nearby, Sackler is for you. If you want to be surrounded by tree huggers, former peace corp volunteers, and other people interested in International health and medicine, BGU might be a good choice. Regardless, make sure you want to be where you go. Going to a school where you do not fit in because it was a backup will leave you, your classmates, and perhaps even the school a little disappointed....


Good luck with your decision.

 

[Gambo254]

if u r not israeli i think u should avoid this contreversal country ........
may be medicine is developed there but its aggressive not stable country ...in addition its immoral state ...
i think the US is a little better

 

[quideam]

if u r not israeli i think u should avoid this contreversal country ........
may be medicine is developed there but its aggressive not stable country ...in addition its immoral state ...
i think the US is a little better

Gambo, please take your politics elsewhere. And for the record, Israel is one of the more 'moral' countries in the middle east, so if the OP wants to be near his family, this is the place to be.

To the OP - going to a school in the US is hands down, no question about it, better for getting a residency when you get out. However, if you're interested in something like pediatrics or internal medicine (not competitive), then as long as you do well on the USMLE you should be fine with one of the Israel schools, especially if you just stay in NY. One more thing to keep in mind - BGU, at least, requires you to study Hebrew to a certain level of competence during your first two years (may be extra stress, or maybe you already speak it, but something to consider if you don't know any hebrew).

Otherwise, they're both really great schools... something I thought about for quite some time, but decided to go with a US school because i'm interested in EM, and the opportunities are much better coming out of a US school.

Good luck

Q

 

[Gambo254]

israel is the one of the most moral country in the middle east ....
lol ....its not politics ...its a real joke ....

 

[a_ditchdoc]

Just a note, I was not trying to disparage the OP from applying to any of the Israeli Schools, more specifically, BGU. In fact, I rather like being surrounded by "tree huggers, former peace corp volunteers, and other people interested in International health and medicine". That said, as far as the student body goes, we seem to prefer like minded people. We are not all really tree huggers but, with few exceptions, have a common interest in international medicine. If that doesn't interest you, you might not be happy here. Likewise, our students have landed some very competitive residencies, including EM (which I am applying to by the way). But, as we tend to attract people with an interest in international medicine, most would not consider interventional radiology. Most lean toward primary care careers.

Gambo, I am sure you have strong feelings toward the conflict here. Without entering a political debate, atrocities are commited on both sides. I am not here to study politics. As someone training to be a physician, I feel for people suffering on either side. Regardless of your political views, those within medicine try to stay out of the politics. I have seen many Palestinians and Bedouins treated in Israeli hospitals right beside religious Jews. Their care was never compromised. In fact, it was no different than the care delivered to the Jewish patients. Likewise, I have seen Arab physicians working side by side with Jewish physicians treating jewish patients. It should serve as a model for how things could be.

I won't try to change your mind about Israel. But, I want you to know that the medical establishment here tries very hard to be above the politics and do what is right for every patient that happens to be in need of care...

 

[secretwave101]

I graduated from that immoral BGU place. Yeah, a tree-hugger or two. Former Peace Corps comment definitely true.

If you're going for optho or derm someday, I'd stay away. Otherwise, you'll probably be fine. We send grads to surg, EM, OB/Gyn every year. Big names occasionally also. Some students had reasonable looks from neurosurg and plastics too, but decided on other specialties by choice. You'll need to smoke your boards, but that's true wherever you come from.

 

[usrael]

I graduated from that immoral BGU place. Yeah, a tree-hugger or two. Former Peace Corps comment definitely true.

If you're going for optho or derm someday, I'd stay away. Otherwise, you'll probably be fine. We send grads to surg, EM, OB/Gyn every year. Big names occasionally also. Some students had reasonable looks from neurosurg and plastics too, but decided on other specialties by choice. You'll need to smoke your boards, but that's true wherever you come from.

Like other people mentioned, it really boils down to your future sprecialty plans. Without sounding too contradicting, I actually just had lunch with a recent graduate of an American MD program in Israel. He said that all of the students (12) matched very well. What does "very" well mean? Not a clue...so take this with a grain of salt.
He also mentioned that the program lacked structure and did not prepare students for step 1 and 2 (at all).
I started at an Israeli med-school (native, not US), and was disappointed with the system. I also plan to specialize in EM, and ironically, this specialty does not exist as a primary specialty in Israel!! I'm relocating to the States to continue my training (OP's city).

good luck!

 

[secretwave101]

I don't think we're talking about the same program. BGU has more than 12 matches in each year. And the class average on the MLE's is a few points below the US national average. That said, each year we always have a few students score in the 80th and 90th percentile. So, I think the MLE prep was fine. I think how you do on those tests is mostly up to you anyway, but then, I'm one of those more independent types.

The funny thing is each year I watched people who were well above the US national average on their boards - and perfectly capable of pursuing more competitive specialties - agonize between IM and FP as a specialty. The program at BGU is just that way. People don't really care about prestige. This is good and bad. The good part is that your colleagues are generally humble and down-to-earth. The bad part is that it will take time to develop a strong reputation because even the top students aren't very interested in "top" programs that everyone's heard of.

Most do really care about international health, and most look for training that will serve them to this end (primary care vs. surgical subspecialty, for example). One day we'll probably have people at the WHO and with MSF, Red Cross, World Vision, etc. Rather than Yale neurosurgery, you're more likely to see the BGU program boasting about graduates in full-time positions at international aid organizations. This is really where their hearts are. So, if you strictly want to work in the US, the BGU program probably isn't the best for you.

Israel's EM system is interesting. True, there's no EM specialty. I'm not sure there ever will be, or should be. ER's are split into surgical and medical sides. The surgical side is run by general and trauma surgeons. At least one surgeon is thus actively working in the ER all the time (Soroka, where I was, is big...probably a 40 bed ED, so I don't know how the smaller ER's work). The medical side is run by internists and family docs. Rotating through the ER is mandatory for most of the hospital staff. Incoming patients then get triaged into the medical or surgical side. Everyone - surgeons, internists, family docs - are ATLS, etc.

The nice thing about the Israeli ED's for a student is that you can spend a lot of time in them because a wide array of specialties are working in them all the time. So, if ER is your thing, you can get lots of track-time if you want, and learn it from different angles depending on who you're following. The drawback is that you can't get a good recommendation letter from an ER doc...that'll have to come from a rotation during your 4th year.

 

[a_ditchdoc]

...the class average on the MLE's is a few points below the US national average... QUOTE]

Ahem...we managed to meet/beat the US average this year....

 

[Antiviral22]

Hi Everyone-

I'm really in a little bit of a bind and wanted to see if anyone could shed some light on this situation....

I have been accepted to Ben Gurion Medical School for International Health w/ Columbia collaboration...I hope to get accepted to Sackler and I have been accepted to SUNY downstate medical school in brooklyn..

I was really hoping to go to Sackler because all my extended family is there and I think it would be an incredible experience, to be in a country that I love very much and would really consider moving there...however, everyone is saying that as far as my career opportunity goes, there is no question that I should stay in New York (and go to SUNY downstate)..

Im wondering what people think about this. . .

Dr. Boston ... congratulations on your acceptance to BGU and others. I was going to reply last night, but my computer wasn't loading the SDN pages very well so I decided to skip it. However, now that I'm back I noticed that Secretwave has nicely stated my point (good work). I think there are a lot of reasons why people are attracted to studying medicine in Israel ... being closer to god, closer to family, the Israeli culture, the bureaucracy (kidding), you didn't get into a US school etc etc etc ... but I think coming to Ben Gurion University without a sincere interest in internation health, health disparities, or working with indigent populations is a huge disservice to the school and its students. The atmosphere at BGU isn't exactly an excerpt from a Paul Farmer book, but most of the students here are the type who want to make positive changes in the sub-par conditions of health and human rights in the world, and whatever the school is lacking to help us achieve these goals (because all schools have kinks to be worked out) you can be sure that we're working hard to change it. A top surgical position at a Boston Hospital has no appeal to me because I'd rather be on the ground in Sudan, Peru, or Malawi directly in contact with those who need us most. I've posted several times about the right and the "not-so-right" reasons to attend BGU so feel free to look up where I've posted. Bottom line is ... the environment at BGU is special and unique for all the right reasons, and I'll do anything to defend it.

 

[secretwave101]

Ahem...we managed to meet/beat the US average this year....

Dude, you guys rock. That's pretty cool that BGU beat the US mean. I'm from the '05 class so I presume you're from the '06 or '07. You all did seem a little smarter than us...

 

[quideam]

I think that you guys are absolutely right about the feel of BGU - both in terms of the students there and just the general atmosphere. I absolutely loved it when I visited, and I also love Israel (spent my summer between MS1 and MS2 volunteering with MDA in Jerusalem). Also, the reason I went into medicine is precisely so that I could do international EM - I've been obsessed with working with MSF since high school, and am going to take a year off between 3rd and 4th years to do some international medical rotations and infectious disese stuff.... so.

I guess my point is that, when push came to shove, I still chose a US school over BGU. My reasons were mostly that I wanted to make sure that I would have a reasonable amount of choice about where to do my EM residency. It's not that I wanted something overly 'prestigious', but that I feel some of the best places for me (ones with elective time, international ties, flight experience) are also fairly competitive. So, that's why i chose a US school. Now, granted, I go to an Ivy, so if my choice was between a state school and BGU, that may have made my decision easier - but I may still have gone with the US school. Bottom line is, I think that you can definetely get a good IM/ Peds/ EM residency coming out of one of the Israeli schools, but i think you'll have more choices and an easier time overall coming out of a US MD school.

Oh, one more thing - I think that BGU's curriculum of interntional medicine is amazing, but upon close inspection it's really not anything that you couldn't just get out of being active in your school's international medicine club, doing a few rotations abroad, and of course making sure to read a lot on the subject (Sachs, Farmer, www.alertnet.org, etc).

Okay, back to studying . Good luck with your decision!!

 

[Orthodoc40]

Wow - it's great reading everything here about BGU.
The more I learn, the more I really feel like it is a program I want to apply to.
I just wish I wasn't interested in Ortho so much. I wish I could do both! and I wish I wouldn't have to move to another country! But the program & the people in it, and what's important to them all strikes a chord with me.

To the OP, it sounds like you really would be happy being close to your family in Israel. If it is as much of a priority to you as it sounds like, I think you should go.

 

[78222]

I have a bit of a connundrum. I've been accepted to a US medschool and deferred it a year to travel abroad. Now the thing is, I love Israel and I would love to attend school at Sackler (Be'er Sheva is a tad hot for me).

I am concerned with two things really.

a) my ability to match into a speciality such as EM (I want to do International Medicine so this seems like a good choice).

b) The fact that I've deferred a year might make it impossible for me to apply. I don't know if it would be good for me to apply considering I already have a US spot reserved for me.

 

[med26]

Hi Everyone-

I'm really in a little bit of a bind and wanted to see if anyone could shed some light on this situation....

I have been accepted to Ben Gurion Medical School for International Health w/ Columbia collaboration...I hope to get accepted to Sackler and I have been accepted to SUNY downstate medical school in brooklyn..

I was really hoping to go to Sackler because all my extended family is there and I think it would be an incredible experience, to be in a country that I love very much and would really consider moving there...however, everyone is saying that as far as my career opportunity goes, there is no question that I should stay in New York (and go to SUNY downstate)..

Im wondering what people think about this. . .

I was in a similar situation and I made a last minute decision to stay in NY and I have been regretting it ever since. With the BGU program, you're not just another physician. You get a unique experience that will set you apart for the rest of your life.

 

[78222]

I was in a similar situation and I made a last minute decision to stay in NY and I have been regretting it ever since. With the BGU program, you're not just another physician. You get a unique experience that will set you apart for the rest of your life.

I have no doubt that BGU is a really good program. However, I honestly cannot imagine staying in Be'ersheva for 4 years. They need a medschool in Jerusalem or up north (my personal favorite favorite part of Yisrael is in the Galilee or Golan).

 

[med26]

I have no doubt that BGU is a really good program. However, I honestly cannot imagine staying in Be'ersheva for 4 years. They need a medschool in Jerusalem or up north (my personal favorite favorite part of Yisrael is in the Galilee or Golan).

You would be living there for only the first 2-3 years.

 

[dhm2101]

Hey,

I'm currently a first year at Sackler, and there are quite a few of my classmates that are very interested in EM, and just recently there's an EM interest group forming. So, provided that you do well on your boards, then you should be fine. Also, having deferred a year won't affect you in regards to applying here, since the application is a non-AMCAS application. It's also quite easy to complete.

Good luck with your decision.

I have a bit of a connundrum. I've been accepted to a US medschool and deferred it a year to travel abroad. Now the thing is, I love Israel and I would love to attend school at Sackler (Be'er Sheva is a tad hot for me).

I am concerned with two things really.

a) my ability to match into a speciality such as EM (I want to do International Medicine so this seems like a good choice).

b) The fact that I've deferred a year might make it impossible for me to apply. I don't know if it would be good for me to apply considering I already have a US spot reserved for me.

 

[EBKame]

I just wanted to give a heads up to any EM interested applicants. We had match night on Thursday and the one student who applied for EM got placed at Yale. Other places where Sackler matched are LIJ, Harvard, John Hopkins, North Shore, Maimonides, Beth Israel, and some other hospitals on the West Coast, which I didn't really take note of. People matched in Gen Surgery, Ortho, Peds, EM, Internal, across the board really. I'm interested in EM myself and I wouldn't have chosen Sackler, if I thought it would be impossible to match into an EM program. Also, while I can't speak for the Ben Gurion or Technion students, I love it in Israel and there hasn't been a day on which I've regretted coming. People here are academically oriented, but still pursue their own interests, whether they are of a religious nature or otherwise. Tel Aviv night life is great and Israel is very conducive to traveling.

 

[DocEG]

...Other places where Sackler matched are LIJ, Harvard, John Hopkins, North Shore, Maimonides, Beth Israel, and some other hospitals on the West Coast, which I didn't really take note of.

Just to clarify, the two West Coast matches were at Cedars-Sinai for Internal Medicine and Kaiser for OBGYN. Both are in Los Angeles.

 

[alx943]

#1 could someone please list the average MCAT/GPA for the accepted students to these programs over the last few years if possible?

#2. I am still on the fence between the two; I am very interested in going into surgery (mostly general, however, I'd like to at least have a shot at a specialty if I change my mind in 3-4 years).

surgery surgery surgery.

Am I right to think that if it's general surgery, either school will give me an equal shot at getting a good residency? If it is a specialty, am I right in thinking that Sackler has a clear edge?

(i imagine myself ultimately working in the 3rd world, however, I want to bring the most cutting-edge, advanced, competent, world class knowledge and skills as possible. Does that make sense? I want to go for the prestige of the top that America has to offer just so that I can take it to the most needy. "take from the rich and give to the poor").

am I right in thinking that Sackler is my clear choice?

 

[secretwave101]

Am I right in thinking that Sackler is my clear choice?

As often stated, it depends on what you want to do. If you plan on working in the 3rd world, you'll find more kindred spirits at BGU. It's a more inspiring environment if you're passionate about international medicine, and maybe better preparation for working there, although that's debatable.

In terms of getting in somewhere, IMHO it doesn't matter. Smoke your boards, honor your classes, promote yourself intelligently and you'll go where you want coming from either program. BGU put people in Yale EM, Brown surgery and all that too.

BTW, practicality reigns in the 3rd world. If you want to bring surgical skill to underserved areas, whether you got it from Harvard or local community hospital A is pretty much irrelevant. In the end, the prestige might be nice for your ego, but it won't really help much in a truly underserved area. Frankly, if you want to spend an extended amount of time in underserved areas, your biggest educational concern should be avoiding debt, not academic prestige.

 

[alx943]

Thanks for the perspective. You confirmed my suspicions, but I am still looking for reasons to be sure that what you say is true. All else being equal, wouldn't one or the other possibly provide more options for options?

Of course, the "prestige" is only important in that it hopefully translates into better training for future service. If it really is only about ego trips, then i'd like to know why. I can imagine that having more experience with the best of the best would open up future doors for bringing the best to the needy.

I don't know how much speculating will help, but maybe someone has more insight based upon experience.

 

[alx943]

wouldn't one or the other possibly provide more options for options?

woops! i meant "options for residency types"

anyhow, what you say sounds right on... i'm just looking for a lot of verification because I am not there yet and I cannot see anything for myself. I lack experience and only have a semi-informed base from which to reason.

Thanks!!

 

[secretwave101]

One of the main reasons schools are tagged with the description "prestigious" is because they command the greatest resources. Harvard has an endowment that is the envy of every private college in the known universe.

At a top surgery program, you will find more high-technology equipment available to you than you might at a smaller community program. You'll find more professors who have garnered lots of research dollars. That kind of thing.

But in the 3rd world, there's no such thing as "the best". And if the majority of your experience is with cath labs and laproscopic gastric banding - while impressive - you will be poorly trained to deal with what is needed.

A program that fosters creativity and flexibility will serve you much better than one which trains you on the most progressive techniques in the medical field.

 

[a_ditchdoc]

The honest truth is, if you wanted prestige, you should have tried an american school. Although I love my school, and I think they have given me a great education, you are still at a disadvantage compared to american students when going for competitive residencies. If you anticipate Ivy League surgical training, perhaps an Ivy league medical school would better prepare you for acceptance.

As far as being a top-notch. super fantastic, ultra brilliant surgeon...well...the truth is, in the third world you will not have the technology to support those skills. What most of these people need are physicians with basic skills and the ability to improvise in a difficult environment.

I don't mean to sound discuoraging, but you seem to want things that are miles apart. And although it is exciting to consider the possibilities when you are starting medical school, keep in mind that the majority of students change their mind about their residency trainiing several times throughout their medical school

 

[secretwave101]

The honest truth is, if you wanted prestige, you should have tried an american school.

Totally agree.

 

[alx943]

your thoughts are indeed very helpful. thank you. I see more clearly now that in reality, the status quo makes 'prestigious' programs worlds apart from the, rightfully called 3rd world.

But am I to naive in envisioning a future where the top technologies are put on a boat to Africa to serve the most needy? ...A future where South American children can be operated on via "tele-surgery" etc.? Say laparoscopic Harvard dr. Bob wants to set up a cutting edge clinic in Uganda using his resources and grants from supporters. Isn't the world getting small enough to where he could easily pull it off--all the while staying very connected with his buddies back in Boston?

(again, prestige is only desired due to its potential to innovatively transform and aid the most needy unlike any traditional group could; not for the ego trip).

 

[a_ditchdoc]

But am I to naive in envisioning a future where the top technologies are put on a boat to Africa to serve the most needy?

Your heart is in the right place, but unfortunately far from being plausible. In countries where multitudes of children die each year from starvation, diarrhea, and preventible diseases, not only would it be unreasonable to import the top technologies, it would perhaps be morally wrong. Investing many thousands of dollars in technology that they have no hope in maintaining while they watch their children die of preventable illnesses would be an injustice. Perhaps you could save a few kids each year with robotic technology, but you would lose hundreds or thousands that could have been saved with vaccinations, food supplementation, and access to clean water. If you are interested in saving someone through surgery, and would like to contirbute to third world countries, a better approach may be to learn to be a good general surgeon and teach the simple techniques to physicians training in those countries.

A classmate did a study in Ethiopia. It turns out that they had a grand total of one pediatric surgeon for a population in the millions. What is technology going to do for someone, and some place, like this?

 

[alx943]

A classmate did a study in Ethiopia. It turns out that they had a grand total of one pediatric surgeon for a population in the millions. What is technology going to do for someone, and some place, like this?

Very true.

Are you a student at Ben Gurion now? What year? What's your background and where are you headed? ( and why

please email [email protected] so i get it. thanks

 

[alx943]

Does anyone know what happened to the sackler/ Ben Gurion students who left Israel due to the Intifada in 2001 ?? I was curious if they just didn't go to med school or if they were accepted to other schools because of the situation. any ideas?? all i heard was many students left and so the class size got cut in half then...

 

[a_ditchdoc]

Does anyone know what happened to the sackler/ Ben Gurion students who left Israel due to the Infatada in 2001 ?? I was curious if they just didn't go to med school or if they were accepted to other schools because of the situation. any ideas?? all i heard was many students left and so the class size got cut in half then...

I am not aware that any students left due to the intifada. I also have never heard about the class size getting cut in half. I would be suspicious of my sources...

 

[aryeh2sday]

Hi everyone –
I would like to join the throng of people who are asking the board where to go to medical school. I have been accepted to Ben Gurion Medical School for International Health, I hope to get accepted to Sackler and I have been accepted to various competitive schools in the States. I also applied to various Israeli (7 year) programs. At this point it isn’t that I don’t know about the schools I am applying to. I believe I have somewhat of an understanding of my options, whether it is the schools I applied to in the States, Sackler, MSIH or Hebrew U. As it often happens in life – nothing is perfect and the question is where to go.

My desire to study medicine in Israel comes from my religious Zionism and a desire to be in Israel. I think my desire to study medicine is idealistic. It is about helping people in need as well as a desire to make the mundane holy as well as to build up the country of Israel. In terms of my connection to international medicine: that is a good question – I guess it depends how you define international medicine. I plan to live and practice medicine in Israel. I don’t plan to go to the third world and give out vaccinations – I completely respect those people, but that isn’t me. I would like to work with underprivileged patients and I could see myself wanting to work in a hospital like Soroka; all the medical schools I applied to in the States were affiliated with large inner-city hospitals. Currently I volunteer as an EMT in the West Bank where I treat more Palestinians than Jews. Just to explain myself a couple weeks ago I responded to a multi-vehicle accident. The accident involved only Palestinian vehicles; no Jews were among the injured. Several Magen David Adom rescue vehicles and an Israeli army ambulance, along with Israeli army doctors and numerous Jewish medics, joined a number of Red Crescent ambulances at the scene. The Palestinian medics obviously had no experience dealing with multiple trauma events of this sort. Unfortunately, in recent years Israeli medics have had both training and experience in these situations. Orders flew in Arabic, Hebrew and English, and in short order we attended to all of the injured. While the army kept onlookers from interfering with the evacuation, Jewish and Arab medical personnel worked feverishly side-by-side to stabilize the victims, a number of whom were in serious condition, and get them on to the waiting ambulances. Classify me however you deem fit.

From looking at the match lists as well as talking to a lot of doctors it seems that MSIH matches better than Sackler. As well as the fact that MSIH is supportive of their students who want to do internship and residency in Israel as opposed to Sackler who tries to dissuade students from doing so. Being that I would want to go into Emergency Medicine – I would like as much as an advantage as possible. I am aware that going to medical school in the States (in particular the ones I got into) would make getting a competitive residency easier and medical students change their specialty numerous times during medical school. Obviously going to school in the states would be advantageous with regards to residencies but I would like to spend as much time in Israel as possible.

As far as medical schools in Israel go (ignoring the American programs for a minute). I have been impressed with BGU over the other three schools in the country. I like BGU’s patient centered philosophy and clinical oriented education over the more academic medicine centered approaches of Haddassah, TAU and Technion. And I like Saroka and Shaarei Tzedek as far as affiliated hospitals go. All the schools I applied to in the States had similar patient focused/clinical educational philosophies and were affiliated with inner-city hospitals with a broad patient base. I applied to a few Israeli programs here, however the disadvantage to those programs is I would have to retake the courses I took as an undergraduate and I would make getting an American residency very difficult. Ideally I would like to learn some things as a resident in America and bring it to Israel. Although, Shaarei Tzedek, one of the hospitals affiliated with BGU, has just started a EM fellowship – it currently takes 9 years (including intership and residency) to get the specialization. For that reason, many directors of ERs in Israel (such as at Shaarei Tzedek) trained in the States. For that matter most highly respected doctors in Israel spent some of their training in the U.S.

As far as competitive residencies go – access to more expensive equipment isn’t the only reason some residencies are competitive. It is difficult to a get an ER residency at Kings County, Jacobi and Harlem Hospital as well the Ivys (yes, I am from NY). In a large inner-city hospital with experienced attending physicians a resident is exposed to a high volume of different and challenging cases and is given the guidance how to deal with such difficult cases. This then affords such a physician the ability to use those skills in an area where it is needed.

As far as communities go I would much prefer to live in Beer Sheva to Tel Aviv. I really like the mutli-lithic in Beer Sheva and I like the religious life in Beer Sheva. When I lived in New York I preferred to live in Washington Heights to the Upper West Side or Midtown.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

 

[Antiviral22]

Hi everyone –
I would like to join the throng of people who are asking the board where to go to medical school. I have been accepted to Ben Gurion Medical School for International Health, I hope to get accepted to Sackler and I have been accepted to various competitive schools in the States. I also applied to various Israeli (7 year) programs. At this point it isn’t that I don’t know about the schools I am applying to. I believe I have somewhat of an understanding of my options, whether it is the schools I applied to in the States, Sackler, MSIH or Hebrew U. As it often happens in life – nothing is perfect and the question is where to go .....

Hi Aryeh2sday ... I'm a current student at BGU. Congrats on all your acceptances, it's kind of a mixed blessing eh? It seems to me you've done some good thinking about what school will be the best fit for you. I wanted to say a couple things about BGU. As a general statement BGU is school centered around international health issues, and again as a general rule, most of the students are committed to serving populations of the developing world in one way or another. However, there are a handful of students that don't necessarily feel this way (or at least have no energy about it) and I must say there is sometimes some resentment that floats around.

During the fourth year of study we are required to do 2 months in a developing country. There are two orthodox Jews who are sort of between a rock and a hard places because they don't know how they'll manage keeping shabbat and keep kosher in, for instance, the middle Ethiopia. It was suggested by one of the students that requirement be adjusted so they could do their rotation in a Haradi neighborhood of Israel. I have big issues with this. If you come to a school who's mission is to create leaders in international health how can you skip out on the international health part? The whole idea of going to a developing country is to get a firsthand view of the social, economic, and cultrual constructs of health in a cultural system that is DIFFERENT than your own.

My point is ... come to BGU if your heart is in for a true international health experience, otherwise you still can get an excellent medical education at the other schools you listed. Good Luck with your decision.

 

[aryeh2sday]

Hi Aryeh2sday ... I'm a current student at BGU. Congrats on all your acceptances, it's kind of a mixed blessing eh? ...
My point is ... come to BGU if your heart is in for a true international health experience, otherwise you still can get an excellent medical education at the other schools you listed. Good Luck with your decision.

Thank you for the kind words.

What about if my heart is set for a partial/or mostly international medical school experience? I don’t want to go to the middle of Ethiopia to do a IHM clerkship however I would really like to do one in the Southern Negev with the Beduin population as most Orthodox Jews in the program have done. If I would go to Einstein or Downstate I would want to volunteer in their inner city clinics in the South Bronx or Downtown Brooklyn respectively.

In a previous post someone mentioned that you should decide between Sackler and BGU by deciding which school you would go to in the States. I think I would go to a school more similar to BGU (like the ones I got into) an inner city medical school. Educationally I think the inner city schools in the States are what I am looking for but I feel partially dead when I am outside of Israel and spending med. School + residency in the States seems too long for me. Sackler seems not to be international enough for me and MSIH seems to be a little more international then I want. Which category do you think I fall into?

 

[Orthodoc40]

Your heart is in the right place, but unfortunately far from being plausible. In countries where multitudes of children die each year from starvation, diarrhea, and preventible diseases, not only would it be unreasonable to import the top technologies, it would perhaps be morally wrong. Investing many thousands of dollars in technology that they have no hope in maintaining while they watch their children die of preventable illnesses would be an injustice. Perhaps you could save a few kids each year with robotic technology, but you would lose hundreds or thousands that could have been saved with vaccinations, food supplementation, and access to clean water. If you are interested in saving someone through surgery, and would like to contirbute to third world countries, a better approach may be to learn to be a good general surgeon and teach the simple techniques to physicians training in those countries.

A classmate did a study in Ethiopia. It turns out that they had a grand total of one pediatric surgeon for a population in the millions. What is technology going to do for someone, and some place, like this?

There's also just the plain fact that often the hospitals lose electricity for long periods of time. Being able to scope a knee doesn't really help much, then! The place I go to in Georgia (that's former Soviet) doesn't even have hot running water.