Difference in work hours per week between prelim medicine and prelim surgery?

[Saladin MD]

What is the difference in work hours per week between prelim medicine and prelim surgery?

I heard that prelim medicine is around 80 hours per week, anywhere from 60-100 hours per week...whereas prelim surgery is often 100-120 hours per week. Is this true? Is prelim surgery really 20 hours more per week than prelim medicine? Or do prelim medical guys work just as many hours as prelim surgery guys?

Thanks.

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[MR1]

It totally depends on where you are training. At my program (I did prelim medicine), for 5 mths I worked about 70-80, for 2 about 85, and the other 5 mths were anywhere from 30 (on Rheum) to 50 hrs a mth.

In contrast my prelim surgery buddies worked 80-90 hrs EVERY mth for all 12 mths.

 

[Winged Scapula]

It really does depend on the program. While there probably aren't too many places where you would still regularly work 120 hrs per week as a surgical intern, you can assume you will work at least 80 most months.

Another difference is that many surgical programs have no non-call months, whereas on medicine you may have some during your internship.

 

[Saladin MD]

Thanks for your replies.

It seems that most people recommend prelim medicine over prelim surgery...unfortunately, I feel MUCH more comfortable with my surgery knowledge base...medicine just feels too vast and would require MUCH more studying.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What you have neglected to consider is that as a surgery intern you will be the first line of call for all medical problems for your patients. You can't just consult these out, you may be underestimating the amount of knowledge of general medicine you are required to have and overestimating the amount of surgical knowledge.

Choose whichever Prelim year you would enjoy the most and fits your educational goals. I have to say that I thought the IM interns got a lot more support from their seniors (ie, there was always someone senior in house with them and available) but this would be program dependent.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Thanks for your replies.

It seems that most people recommend prelim medicine over prelim surgery...unfortunately, I feel MUCH more comfortable with my surgery knowledge base...medicine just feels too vast and would require MUCH more studying.

Why don't you just read and learn medicine then?

Do you plan on having this type of intellectually lazy mentality for the rest of your medical career? I hope not.

 

[Saladin MD]

Why don't you just read and learn medicine then?

Do you plan on having this type of intellectually lazy mentality for the rest of your medical career? I hope not.

I was talking to an American medical student and I asked him if American med students/residents were jerks and pretentious a-holes like they are on SDN. He reassured me that it's just SDN, which seems to attract people like you: highly judgmental jerks who get off on bashing anonymous people on forums. No disrespect to SDN staff itself--I think they are doing a great service to the community and cannot be blamed for the bad apples who visit the site.

But really, I don't care for your judgmental crap. It's not about being lazy. You think a lazy person would opt for a surgical prelim? Puh-lease. I know very well that surgical prelims are killer and that even the best of the best become suicidal/homicidal when they go through that year. Working 85+ hours a week is not exactly lazy.

Like I said, I did better in my surgery rotation than my medical rotation. Why? Because I found it easier to 'master' (I use this term loosely) the material. I need to do well in my prelim year in case I don't match into an advanced position, which is a possibility since I am an IMG. So yeah, I want to put my best foot forward intern year by doing something I am better at. Got a problem with that?

Anyways, the last thing the profession needs is judgmental a-holes like yourself. But it seems there is an abundance of your types.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I hope you read a patient's chart more closely than you read my last post. I said INTELLECTUAL laziness. Since English may not be your first language let me explain what I meant. Intellectual laziness is when you don't know something yet instead of looking it up and learning, you accept your ignorance and move on. THIS IS A RECIPE FOR MEDIOCRITY IN MEDICINE. These are not my words. These are the words of many wise professors and attendings who taught me during med school.

This has nothing to do with committing suicide or the rest of your immature rant/personal attacks. G'luck to you whatever route you take in life.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think you can expect to work more hours as a surgical intern vs. a medicine intern.
However, when I was an IM intern I only had one non-call month (one outpatient medicine clinic month). All the rest of the months it was Q3 and Q4 in house overnight call, admitting patients all night. But in general the daily hours are longer in surgery because you have to get there even earlier in the a.m. And you probably won't get to see the OR much, if at all, so you have to think about what you'll be getting out of it all, educationally speaking.

I think if you enjoy surgical rotations more, you can do a surgical prelim year, but just realize that you are going to work more. If trying to interview @the same time for advanced positions (b/c didn't get a categorical spot first try) it might be really, really hard, or impossible. Of course it would be hard if doing an IM internship as well.

What specialty or specialties are your ultimate career goal? If not something surgical, then I'm not sure doing a surgical prelim year is going to help you a lot...IM can be used as PGY1 for more specialties I think (i.e. neurology and some others that surgery prelim years can't be used for). On the other hand, sometimes there are surgical prelim spots that IMGs get at some pretty decent academic hospitals (i.e. Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, U Texas system, etc.) because surgery programs always need prelims. Just don't expect to get to stay there as an upper level, though, as a lot of places take a lot more prelims vs. the number they even intend to keep on for PGY2 and above.

 

[Law2Doc]

...IM can be used as PGY1 for more specialties I think (i.e. neurology and some others that surgery prelim years can't be used for). ...

I think neuro is probably the only advanced program I'm aware of that doesn't accept surgery prelims. You definitely can do surgery for the ROAD specialties. So you aren't going to close that many doors (just neuro and the odds of transitioning into a categorical medicine slot). Most people don't opt for the surgery prelims prior to advanced programs not because it's not accepted, but because it's perceived as harder work and so folks heading into more lifestyle fields tend not to opt for something harder. So I don't think this is the strongest of your arguments.

The strongest arguments are (1) hours are worse, and (2) odds of getting from a prelim surgery slot to something categorical are probably worse.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I think neuro is probably the only advanced program I'm aware of that doesn't accept surgery prelims. You definitely can do surgery for the ROAD specialties. So you aren't going to close that many doors (just neuro and the odds of transitioning into a categorical medicine slot). Most people don't opt for the surgery prelims prior to advanced programs not because it's not accepted, but because it's perceived as harder work and so folks heading into more lifestyle fields tend not to opt for something harder. So I don't think this is the strongest of your arguments.

The strongest arguments are (1) hours are worse, and (2) odds of getting from a prelim surgery slot to something categorical are probably worse.

Agree with everything you wrote. Except the OP rather do prelim surgery (despite the horrendous work hours and it being known as the "black whole" of internships) b/c he will have to read more as an IM prelim.

Personally, I'd rather read an hour every night after work and learn than be forced to wake up at 4am for a year straight, deal with difficult personalities and STILL have basically no contract for the year after. That blows some serious elephant balls.

 

[McSnappy]

Why don't you just read and learn medicine then?

Do you plan on having this type of intellectually lazy mentality for the rest of your medical career? I hope not.

He's been trolling the Anesthesia board for a while with the same attitude.