Did anyone choose a DO acceptance over an MD acceptance? Why?

[Doc Henry]

I'm guessing you are a premed and haven't had any experience with OMM. OMM can be amazing. I did an elective just for fun and you can't even begin to imagine the number of situations it has helped people who have for years been struggling with ineffective drug intervention. We had many situations in which patients wasted countless dollars on various testing and pain meds. After a few weeks-months of OMM they improved dramatically. On the flipside OMM is not intended for every situation and does not improve every patient. Overall it is a great added tool to have in you practice.

Many people at osteo schools aren't into OMM and they reject it based on their negative attitude towards learning extra material. I know because I was one of those students--until I started using it on friends and family(who btw demand it all the frickin time now)

+1 on the OMM thing. My grandpa used OMM on me all the time when I would throw out my back figure skating and stuff. My doctor kept trying to prescribe me muscle relaxants but I really didn't need them. OMM + alternating heat and ice did the trick every time.

Oh, and don't even get me started on how nice OMM is for tension you carry in your shoulders and neck from studying all the time!!! It is so great to go home and get "fixed". It can really help with headaches too!

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[MossPoh]

Yes, me on the other hand received NO benefit from OMM. I still have chronic pain after it. I think a lot of it is kind of placebo effect, which is perfectly fine. If it makes the person feel better then I don't care if it is only mental.

 

[Ki45toryu]

Yes, me on the other hand received NO benefit from OMM. I still have chronic pain after it. I think a lot of it is kind of placebo effect, which is perfectly fine. If it makes the person feel better then I don't care if it is only mental.

One thing to consider is that not all medicine is a magic bullet. People live with chronic pain after surgeries and pain meds...so its difficult to tell without knowing the whole story, but you sound dissatisfied because OMM did not alleviate your problem. It wont for a lot of people....just like other treatment modalities will not for a lot of people...its just 1 more tool to work with that is non-invasive.

 

[rockdascrubs786]

I find it amazing that pre-meds that have yet to take the mcats or even get accepted to medical school seem to know more than current med students and practicing physicians. keep taking your pre-med reqs and shut your face...you know nothing. I've been accepted to several medical schools, including a few allopathic and i went with the school I felt most comfortable with and I liked the osteopathic perspective. Its hilarious when people from, say, India come with the MBBS degree and take boards that "converts" the degree to an MD arrogantly repudiate the legitimacy of DOs. All the "old" timers that view DOs lowly in the medical field are being replaced by rational people that know an MD=DO and vice versa. Hmm, both MDs and DOs make the same amount of money, so why the hell would hospitals pay a DO and MD surgeon the same when they know the degree is inherently inferior? Fact. You get a better understanding of anatomy in a DO school and are, for the most part, better prepared for surgical specialties than MD counterparts. The aforementioned assertion is a result of my conversation with family members that attended US MD schools and those currently in DO and MD schools. Follow this.

(1) P
(2) Bs(P)
(3) -(1),m,-->-(2)
(4)(1), m, --> (2)

Thus, I know that a DO=MD.

prove me wrong jackass "know it all" premeds and then i'll walk away and never log onto SDN. Have fun making fun of the same profession you are trying to go into (medicine) and masterbating to a ridiculous amount of fetish internet porn.

 

[ATrain]

I find it amazing that pre-meds that have yet to take the mcats or even get accepted to medical school seem to know more than current med students and practicing physicians. keep taking your pre-med reqs and shut your face...you know nothing. I've been accepted to several medical schools, including a few allopathic and i went with the school I felt most comfortable with and I liked the osteopathic perspective. Its hilarious when people from, say, India come with the MBBS degree and take boards that "converts" the degree to an MD arrogantly repudiate the legitimacy of DOs. All the "old" timers that view DOs lowly in the medical field are being replaced by rational people that know an MD=DO and vice versa. Hmm, both MDs and DOs make the same amount of money, so why the hell would hospitals pay a DO and MD surgeon the same when they know the degree is inherently inferior? Fact. You get a better understanding of anatomy in a DO school and are, for the most part, better prepared for surgical specialties than MD counterparts. The aforementioned assertion is a result of my conversation with family members that attended US MD schools and those currently in DO and MD schools. Follow this.

(1) P
(2) Bs(P)
(3) -(1),m,-->-(2)
(4)(1), m, --> (2)

Thus, I know that a DO=MD.

prove me wrong jackass "know it all" premeds and then i'll walk away and never log onto SDN. Have fun making fun of the same profession you are trying to go into (medicine) and masterbating to a ridiculous amount of fetish internet porn.

Class of 2012....doesn't that in fact make you a premed?

 

[rockdascrubs786]

Class of 2012....doesn't that in fact make you a premed?

Yes, I am a "pre-med. However, I clearly stated a specific type of pre-med in my diatribe; thus, making sure I did not include myself and other rational pre-meds in my posting. Not once did I not qualify the aforementioned as all pre-meds in general in every possible world. hahaha....essentially, i dislike pre-meds that are dbags. clear enough?

 

[MossPoh]

One thing to consider is that not all medicine is a magic bullet. People live with chronic pain after surgeries and pain meds...so its difficult to tell without knowing the whole story, but you sound dissatisfied because OMM did not alleviate your problem. It wont for a lot of people....just like other treatment modalities will not for a lot of people...its just 1 more tool to work with that is non-invasive.

I never claimed it to be a magic bullet, but that statement goes both ways. I do agree that it is just one more tool. I think it tends to go along with more of the mental aspect than anything. It is similar to acupuncture. There has been some light research done with that where they had the officially trained person placing needles all along the meridians and what not and then a person just kind of sticking needles wherever. The results weren't substantially different, although a percentage of both groups felt better. I don't care if the treatment involves licking a dog's a$$ if it makes them feel better and can avoid another medication on the laundry list. I have tried all the CAM stuff with little benefits for me, but that is me. I'm aware of that. The people that it does "work" on just have to realize that it isn't a cure all as well. If proper pain medications didn't work, but a few adjustments did then alright, but that seems to lead down the road of pain created by the mind...which is the worst kind in my opinion.

 

[Ki45toryu]

I never claimed it to be a magic bullet, but that statement goes both ways. I do agree that it is just one more tool. I think it tends to go along with more of the mental aspect than anything. It is similar to acupuncture. There has been some light research done with that where they had the officially trained person placing needles all along the meridians and what not and then a person just kind of sticking needles wherever. The results weren't substantially different, although a percentage of both groups felt better. I don't care if the treatment involves licking a dog's a$$ if it makes them feel better and can avoid another medication on the laundry list. I have tried all the CAM stuff with little benefits for me, but that is me. I'm aware of that. The people that it does "work" on just have to realize that it isn't a cure all as well. If proper pain medications didn't work, but a few adjustments did then alright, but that seems to lead down the road of pain created by the mind...which is the worst kind in my opinion.

I see what you are saying, however there is no evidence that conversion disorders are an inherent risk for OMM.

I don't agree with every aspect of OMM, just as other students/physicians will not agree with every treatment modality. I have found that many kinds of OMM can be very effective though, especially in the realm of sports medicine and back/hip pain. I have seen a guy practically crawl into my clinic with back pain, and see him jaunt out 5 minutes later after we treated his psoas.

Again, do I agree with every type of treatment? Not a chance...but that doesnt mean the majority of them arent actual 'cures' to problems...although no medicine man performs really cures anything, it just helps facilitate the body to fix itself.

 

[JKM1]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO,
* My friend who is a physician at a local hospital said that his hospital only hires DOs to do moonlighting and that the medical director will not hire a DO.

* At the same hospital my friend stated that "everyone knows who's a DO..." saying that they are thought of as 2nd class physicians.

* Many DOs feel that they need to take the USMLE to get the residencies they want. Why would one want to take 2 licensing exams if they don't need to by going MD? I mean, would you guys want to take 2 versions of MCAT? Just go for an MD and take the USMLE.

* Come match time, MD students match 96%, meaning only about 4% need to scramble (not matching and need to call/FAX residency programs to get accepted into a program). DO students match about 67 or 70%. This means about 30% of the DO students need to scramble. This can't be fun. Also, knowing that you didn't match because many of these MD programs didn't want you must do a number on your confidence.

* My professor suggested I go MD......she even unintentionally refer to the MD schools as "real medical school". Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant. Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way.

Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

My girlfriend's co worker who is also trying to goto med school made derogatory comments about DOs stating that DO schools are easier to get in etc.....

Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

This is not to point out that one should do what the majority prefers. But, to point out the mentality that prevails.

If you say the belief of the majority doesn't matter, you are in denial. The entire marketing world works on people's general psychology of wanting to be accepted by the majority. Don't tell me your biology/psychology some how differs from the rest of the human race.

* Who the hell wants to go through more trouble to become what you all purport MD=DO? If they are all equal, I'd rather choose a degree that'll give me the best chance of practicing with less headache/work. I mean, the whole process is already a lot of work! Who needs more work (feeling like you need to take 2 licensing exams, higher chance of scrambling come residency match time etc.....) when it's already a lot of work??s

* Many of you are delusional in a sense that as the "old MDs retire off, the discrimination towards DOs will decrease". Dream on. I bet you this discrimination will take a LOT longer to die off. Have you read any of the threads on the pre allo forums? Believe me, they do not thing very highly of DOs. Yeah, these guys are far from being old MDs. They are pre meds or the ones applying to MD schools....the guys you'll work side by side with. Yeah, you should be aware that they do not think as highly of you as their MD counterparts ...remember that during your residencies and work. Sucks huh? I know. I wouldn't want that sort of feeling either. It's not fair since I feel that it shouldn't matter the was racial discrimination is unfair.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I can't tell if that post is satire or not.

 

[bravesfan113]

i was waiting for TT to chime in.

you keep talking about these GA-PCOM girls. i've lived about 10 minutes away from there my whole life.. and i dont know about this girl thing and gwinnett county. gwinnett is full of high schoolers and older chicks. all the girls that are my age (~24) are in Atlanta and Athens. and theres nowhere to go out in gwinnett. maybe its the students that are hot? i'm going to an open hours there at the end of this month.. maybe i'll find out then,

i've heard about texas girls my whole life. still haven't made it out there to check em out.

do you live in a town similar to dillon texas, of friday night lights fame. i love that show, and that town. that's what i imagine texas to be like

 

[JaggerPlate]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO,
* My friend who is a physician at a local hospital said that his hospital only hires DOs to do moonlighting and that the medical director will not hire a DO.

* At the same hospital my friend stated that "everyone knows who's a DO..." saying that they are thought of as 2nd class physicians.

* Many DOs feel that they need to take the USMLE to get the residencies they want. Why would one want to take 2 licensing exams if they don't need to by going MD? I mean, would you guys want to take 2 versions of MCAT? Just go for an MD and take the USMLE.

* Come match time, MD students match 96%, meaning only about 4% need to scramble (not matching and need to call/FAX residency programs to get accepted into a program). DO students match about 67 or 70%. This means about 30% of the DO students need to scramble. This can't be fun. Also, knowing that you didn't match because many of these MD programs didn't want you must do a number on your confidence.

* My professor suggested I go MD......she even unintentionally refer to the MD schools as "real medical school". Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant. Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way.

Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

My girlfriend's co worker who is also trying to goto med school made derogatory comments about DOs stating that DO schools are easier to get in etc.....

Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

This is not to point out that one should do what the majority prefers. But, to point out the mentality that prevails.

If you say the belief of the majority doesn't matter, you are in denial. The entire marketing world works on people's general psychology of wanting to be accepted by the majority. Don't tell me your biology/psychology some how differs from the rest of the human race.

* Who the hell wants to go through more trouble to become what you all purport MD=DO? If they are all equal, I'd rather choose a degree that'll give me the best chance of practicing with less headache/work. I mean, the whole process is already a lot of work! Who needs more work (feeling like you need to take 2 licensing exams, higher chance of scrambling come residency match time etc.....) when it's already a lot of work??s

* Many of you are delusional in a sense that as the "old MDs retire off, the discrimination towards DOs will decrease". Dream on. I bet you this discrimination will take a LOT longer to die off. Have you read any of the threads on the pre allo forums? Believe me, they do not thing very highly of DOs. Yeah, these guys are far from being old MDs. They are pre meds or the ones applying to MD schools....the guys you'll work side by side with. Yeah, you should be aware that they do not think as highly of you as their MD counterparts ...remember that during your residencies and work. Sucks huh? I know. I wouldn't want that sort of feeling either. It's not fair since I feel that it shouldn't matter the was racial discrimination is unfair.

Hahahah ... nice. Whew, a lot of allo people lately are getting really weird about DOs stepping on their turf. It's almost like they feel threatened or something? Weird.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Friday Night Lights was set in Odessa, which is a real town, and the story was true (albeit, altered, if you're talking about the movie... the book was probably pretty close to reality), and the events depicted are not that uncommon in some of these towns.

High school football is rificulously popular here. Some places more than others. I know that state playoff games, which usually consist of one team from a rich suburban school, with nothing but roided-up white kids (usually Austin Westlake or Southlake Carroll) against some team loaded with future college and NFL talent, will sell out venues like Texas Stadium, Reliant Stadium, DKR Memorial, and so-on. Regular season HS games bewteen good teams might draw 30,000 fans. Its a big deal. I will personally never go to another HS football game again, unless I have a son playing, or a hot daughter at the high school, and I have to go there to kick the **** out of any boys who want to have sex with her.

If you're talking about the TV show, I cannot comment because I have never seen it. I live in Austin, which is probably like any other moderately-large Southwestern city. However, the city has kind of grown up around two things: UT (large state university), and government (state capitol). Between those two entities, you're probably looking at no less than 1/5 of the city's nearly one-million people being employed and/or enrolled at one of them.

There are a lot of hot chicks here. It is very nice. I don't remember my having said much about GA-PCOM girls, however, as I don't really know much about them. Based on the facebook group, I think I will have some lovely and intelligent female classmates next year. I also know that the Southeast is loaded with hot chicks, so that is not something that I am too worried about.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Fact. You get a better understanding of anatomy in a DO school and are, for the most part, better prepared for surgical specialties than MD counterparts.

And residency directors know this. That is why it is much easier to match into a competitive ACGME (MD) surgery program as a DO. Look up Uro, Neurosurg, ENT or Ortho at the big ACGME programs and you will find almost entirely DOs.

 

[endocardium]

I find it amazing that pre-meds that have yet to take the mcats or even get accepted to medical school seem to know more than current med students and practicing physicians. keep taking your pre-med reqs and shut your face...you know nothing. I've been accepted to several medical schools, including a few allopathic and i went with the school I felt most comfortable with and I liked the osteopathic perspective. Its hilarious when people from, say, India come with the MBBS degree and take boards that "converts" the degree to an MD arrogantly repudiate the legitimacy of DOs. All the "old" timers that view DOs lowly in the medical field are being replaced by rational people that know an MD=DO and vice versa. Hmm, both MDs and DOs make the same amount of money, so why the hell would hospitals pay a DO and MD surgeon the same when they know the degree is inherently inferior? Fact. You get a better understanding of anatomy in a DO school and are, for the most part, better prepared for surgical specialties than MD counterparts. The aforementioned assertion is a result of my conversation with family members that attended US MD schools and those currently in DO and MD schools. Follow this.

(1) P
(2) Bs(P)
(3) -(1),m,-->-(2)
(4)(1), m, --> (2)

Thus, I know that a DO=MD.

prove me wrong jackass "know it all" premeds and then i'll walk away and never log onto SDN. Have fun making fun of the same profession you are trying to go into (medicine) and masterbating to a ridiculous amount of fetish internet porn.

What the heck? You have yet to set foot into a medical school classroom... Don't further discredit our profession. Yes, the equivalency is there. In general, the ones who try to state otherwise are pre-meds (predominately), the ignorant, and the older generation (before DO's were full physicians).

The education is basically the same. We do have an extra class on OMM, but I wouldn't venture to say that this makes us better at anatomy. We have a little more experience with surface anatomy and palpation, but that's it. Everything else is more of an individual thing, not a group phenomenon.

 

[metalmd06]

I'm really starting to get pissed off about this infernal DO bashing. For anyone to assert that DO's are lesser doctors is just plain B.S. Let's be realistic here: DO admissions standards are slightly lower than MD standards. However, as osteopathic medicine grows and becomes more prevelant as an option amongst pre-meds, the gap continues to close. But this doesn't even matter! Who cares what your Ugrad GPA and your MCAT scores were? We all know that once you get into medical school it is up to you. DO's have to go through the same rigors as MD's, and they still end up becoming doctors. So that means they had to be successful in medical school, and ultimately that's where it really counts.

This has been bugging me for days in light of reading some of the locked threads on this forum. For people to assert that DO's are somehow less intelligent or less capable than MD's really pisses me off. THEY HAVE THE SAME TRAINING!!!

Also, I feel that in America, allopathic admissions has become too much of a numbers game. As a result, you have incredibly gifted and intelligent people otherwise more suited for Cancer research or engineering or theoretical physics, getting into medical school and becoming pompus ******* doctors. This is not the majority of people, of course, however if these schools took a bit more time to get to know their prospective candidates, we would have more dedicated doctors and less jerk-offs who realize they hate patients and drop out 3rd or 4th year. I'm not saying that a large percentage of MD's don't go on to be great, caring docs. All I'm saying is that osteopathic schools look beyond the numbers and their averages and aim to find students who will make the best docs. Sometimes a 4.0, 40 MCAT is just not suited for medicine.

 

[JaggerPlate]

And residency directors know this. That is why it is much easier to match into a competitive ACGME (MD) surgery program as a DO. Look up Uro, Neurosurg, ENT or Ortho at the big ACGME programs and you will find almost entirely DOs.

u r seww kool!! I hopzee wen I r med student I say kewl tings!!

 

[metalmd06]

u r seww kool!! I hopzee wen I r med student I say kewl tings!!

What happened to you Jagger? You used to defend attacks against osteopathic medicine with intelligent, well-worded responses. Increasingly I've see you coming back with immature, regressive responses. I used to enjoy reading your posts man, come back down to earth.

 

[digitlnoize]

And residency directors know this. That is why it is much easier to match into a competitive ACGME (MD) surgery program as a DO. Look up Uro, Neurosurg, ENT or Ortho at the big ACGME programs and you will find almost entirely DOs.

You won't. Because DO's apply to these residencies in FAR fewer numbers...There are far fewer DO students and only a small percentage of those apply to allo surgery...

Surgery is not a very hot specialty choice for DO's (probably largely due to the increased number of DO non-trads and the horrors of the surgery lifestyle) and that's way you won't find that many in the Big Allo Programs...even with the superior training

 

[JaggerPlate]

What happened to you Jagger? You used to defend attacks against osteopathic medicine with intelligent, well-worded responses. Increasingly I've see you coming back with immature, regressive responses. I used to enjoy reading your posts man, come back down to earth.

Trust me ... I still wear that cape when necessary. BUT, it's important to pick your battles. Instatewaiter just lurks around the DO forums waiting for a chance to make these little comments, ergo ... I'm not going to waste my time even trying. I could respond with a well written and logical response, but what's the point? Anyone who has been around the forums for long enough knows that this is his game. If I respond he will just keep firing back so I basically ignore, or make stupid comments like that nowadays. Trust me, I'm still in your corner and always will be, but I've taken my fair share of warnings and made myself look unprofessional many times trying to make logical arguments to illogical people. I haven't gone anywhere, I'm just super busy lately/have learned how to argue with the right people.

EDIT: Also, part of the reason why I didn't respond (despite Instatewaiter's posting history around these parts) is because the post he was responding to was a bit over the top in the first place. I have always known that MDs and DOs were equivalent and because of this don't stand for people DO bashing, but in the same sense, I would be extremely hypocritical if I then allowed people to call MD training inferior.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Clearly you didnt respond to my post. It has become increasingly easy to get your goat Jagger.

Hell, someone now could say something not even peripherally related to DO education and you will get up in arms about how they are DO bashing. Relax, it is an internet forum. Plus I was responding to an utterly ridiculous post.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Clearly you didnt respond to my post. It has become increasingly easy to get your goat Jagger.

Hell, someone now could say something not even peripherally related to DO education and you will get up in arms about how they are DO bashing. Relax, it is an internet forum. Plus I was responding to an utterly ridiculous post.

YOU DIRTY SON OF A BIT..

Just kidding.

I actually wasn't responding to your post at all, and so many people are starting to say how explosive I've been lately ... there is a small chance I will look into this meanie. Anyway, In my post I was actually responding to why I didn't give my usual long winded commentary on your post, and the reason why was because of the nature of the comment you were responding to. Like I said, I see MD and DO as equivalent. Hence, I always respond to DO's being called inferior (which is not what you were doing). However, in the same sense, I would then be a liar if I didn't dismiss people calling MD inferior. The post you were responding to clearly stated DO > MD (in terms of anatomical training/preparation for surgey) which I disagree with, which is why I didn't respond to your comment (besides my little thing -which I don't think anyone really took in the joking manner that I meant), and is what I explained to metalMD.

 

[wanttogohome]

Don't mean to sound like a complete novice here, but why do most people on this forum entirely discount osteopathic residencies? Not to underestimate the competitive nature of these, but schools like PCOM have programs in Neurosurgery, ENT, plastics, etc...this seems like a good way to circumvent the logistical issues attached to some of these problems. I'll actually make the assumption that MOST DO grads enter osteopathic residencies....and most seem to do just fine. Even if you're gunning for a competitive specialty, why not still go this route?

I guess i'm just wondering if there's something I haven't taken into account. Maybe I'm very unlike many people on this thread/forum, but I'm more concerned with doing what I enjoy rather than landing a residency spot at an Ivy League school/hospital.

 

[justletmeinplz]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO,
* My friend who is a physician at a local hospital said that his hospital only hires DOs to do moonlighting and that the medical director will not hire a DO.

* At the same hospital my friend stated that "everyone knows who's a DO..." saying that they are thought of as 2nd class physicians.

* Many DOs feel that they need to take the USMLE to get the residencies they want. Why would one want to take 2 licensing exams if they don't need to by going MD? I mean, would you guys want to take 2 versions of MCAT? Just go for an MD and take the USMLE.

* Come match time, MD students match 96%, meaning only about 4% need to scramble (not matching and need to call/FAX residency programs to get accepted into a program). DO students match about 67 or 70%. This means about 30% of the DO students need to scramble. This can't be fun. Also, knowing that you didn't match because many of these MD programs didn't want you must do a number on your confidence.

* My professor suggested I go MD......she even unintentionally refer to the MD schools as "real medical school". Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant. Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way.

Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

My girlfriend's co worker who is also trying to goto med school made derogatory comments about DOs stating that DO schools are easier to get in etc.....

Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

This is not to point out that one should do what the majority prefers. But, to point out the mentality that prevails.

If you say the belief of the majority doesn't matter, you are in denial. The entire marketing world works on people's general psychology of wanting to be accepted by the majority. Don't tell me your biology/psychology some how differs from the rest of the human race.

* Who the hell wants to go through more trouble to become what you all purport MD=DO? If they are all equal, I'd rather choose a degree that'll give me the best chance of practicing with less headache/work. I mean, the whole process is already a lot of work! Who needs more work (feeling like you need to take 2 licensing exams, higher chance of scrambling come residency match time etc.....) when it's already a lot of work??s

* Many of you are delusional in a sense that as the "old MDs retire off, the discrimination towards DOs will decrease". Dream on. I bet you this discrimination will take a LOT longer to die off. Have you read any of the threads on the pre allo forums? Believe me, they do not thing very highly of DOs. Yeah, these guys are far from being old MDs. They are pre meds or the ones applying to MD schools....the guys you'll work side by side with. Yeah, you should be aware that they do not think as highly of you as their MD counterparts ...remember that during your residencies and work. Sucks huh? I know. I wouldn't want that sort of feeling either. It's not fair since I feel that it shouldn't matter the was racial discrimination is unfair.

So a few of your idiot, know nothing friends said "I heard that DOs are inferior so you should go MD," and you just go ahead and take there word for it? You're making this important decision in your life based on hearsay?
A fine physician you'll be....

I've stated many times before on here that my dad is an MD. He's a Radiation Oncologist in a very successful private practice with several offices in North Central Florida. You'll be lucky if you ever achieve a fraction of his success. Now, this highly successful MD, who just happens to my father, has been very supportive of my decision to go DO. Do you think he'd let his boy head down a path he wasn't sure would lead to eventual success or wouldn't fulfill his ambition to be a competent and successful physician? HELL NO! Do you think, if he had witnessed all of this negativity towards DOs IN THE REAL WORLD OF PHYSICIANS PRACTICING MEDICINE that he'd be so supportive of my decision to go DO? HELL NO! (Forget that, do you think he'd send his own mother to a DO? He does...) He's told me several times that he's confident I'll get just as good a medical education, IF NOT BETTER, at the DO school I chose to attend. Are there MDs out there that see DOs as inferior? Sure. Are those MDs becoming the minority as DOs continue to specialize and prove themselves equal? Absolutely. And what of these pre-allo pre-meds that have a negative view of DOs? First of all, most of them will be humbled in med school and eventually when they go into practice they'll realize a few things. One thing is, the good ones will have noticed there were some people in their med school classes that probably shouldn't have been there....and they're now in practice...MD behind their name and all. If you don't notice this, you probably shouldn't expect many referrals from classmates. (Sure the same is true for DO school.) Another thing they'll realize is that MDs and DOs are working towards the same goal. They often achieve this goal using the EXACT SAME METHODS. Good physicians refer patients to the doctor that best suits their needs, regardless of DO vs. MD. Bottom line, when some (certainly not all) of those pre-allo jackasses have their head removed from their asses, they'll see the reality of the situation... a good doctor is a good doctor whether they went to Harvard, UF, Nova Southeastern, or St. Caribbean.

And for the record, based on my interaction with both MD students/pre-meds and DO students/pre-meds...let's just say I'll cast my lot with the latter....and for me, that really is the difference.

Not sure why I felt the need to respond to that post seriously.... apparently, my tolerance for stupidity is low this morning.

 

[justletmeinplz]

It seems that many pre-allo students believe that MD schools hold some arcane knowledge... some secrets about anatomy or medicine that DO schools just haven't figured out yet. Ridiculous....

 

[mynamewastaken]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO,
* My friend who is a physician at a local hospital said that his hospital only hires DOs to do moonlighting and that the medical director will not hire a DO.

* At the same hospital my friend stated that "everyone knows who's a DO..." saying that they are thought of as 2nd class physicians.

* Many DOs feel that they need to take the USMLE to get the residencies they want. Why would one want to take 2 licensing exams if they don't need to by going MD? I mean, would you guys want to take 2 versions of MCAT? Just go for an MD and take the USMLE.

* Come match time, MD students match 96%, meaning only about 4% need to scramble (not matching and need to call/FAX residency programs to get accepted into a program). DO students match about 67 or 70%. This means about 30% of the DO students need to scramble. This can't be fun. Also, knowing that you didn't match because many of these MD programs didn't want you must do a number on your confidence.

* My professor suggested I go MD......she even unintentionally refer to the MD schools as "real medical school". Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant. Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way.

Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

My girlfriend's co worker who is also trying to goto med school made derogatory comments about DOs stating that DO schools are easier to get in etc.....

Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

This is not to point out that one should do what the majority prefers. But, to point out the mentality that prevails.

If you say the belief of the majority doesn't matter, you are in denial. The entire marketing world works on people's general psychology of wanting to be accepted by the majority. Don't tell me your biology/psychology some how differs from the rest of the human race.

* Who the hell wants to go through more trouble to become what you all purport MD=DO? If they are all equal, I'd rather choose a degree that'll give me the best chance of practicing with less headache/work. I mean, the whole process is already a lot of work! Who needs more work (feeling like you need to take 2 licensing exams, higher chance of scrambling come residency match time etc.....) when it's already a lot of work??s

* Many of you are delusional in a sense that as the "old MDs retire off, the discrimination towards DOs will decrease". Dream on. I bet you this discrimination will take a LOT longer to die off. Have you read any of the threads on the pre allo forums? Believe me, they do not thing very highly of DOs. Yeah, these guys are far from being old MDs. They are pre meds or the ones applying to MD schools....the guys you'll work side by side with. Yeah, you should be aware that they do not think as highly of you as their MD counterparts ...remember that during your residencies and work. Sucks huh? I know. I wouldn't want that sort of feeling either. It's not fair since I feel that it shouldn't matter the was racial discrimination is unfair.

I can't decide whether that was the funniest thing I've ever read or the most pathetic, poorly reasoned, inaccurate post on this forum. Because I'm still chuckling a little, I thought it might be fun to start a poll...

Which of the following is your favorite?:



1) Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant.

2) Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way. (is that even English?)

3) Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

4) My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

5) Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

6) My professor suggested I go MD

close call, but I'm gonna go with #4!....priceless

 

[justletmeinplz]

I can't decide whether that was the funniest thing I've ever read or the most pathetic, poorly reasoned, inaccurate post on this forum. Because I'm still chuckling a little, I thought it might be fun to start a poll...

Which of the following is your favorite?:



1) Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant.

2) Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way. (is that even English?)

3) Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

4) My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

5) Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

6) My professor suggested I go MD

close call, but I'm gonna go with #4!....priceless

5 is pretty good too. "Pretty much everyone." Wonder how many patients of DOs were included in "pretty much everyone."

 

[Instatewaiter]

Don't mean to sound like a complete novice here, but why do most people on this forum entirely discount osteopathic residencies? Not to underestimate the competitive nature of these, but schools like PCOM have programs in Neurosurgery, ENT, plastics, etc...this seems like a good way to circumvent the logistical issues attached to some of these problems. I'll actually make the assumption that MOST DO grads enter osteopathic residencies....and most seem to do just fine. Even if you're gunning for a competitive specialty, why not still go this route?

I guess i'm just wondering if there's something I haven't taken into account. Maybe I'm very unlike many people on this thread/forum, but I'm more concerned with doing what I enjoy rather than landing a residency spot at an Ivy League school/hospital.

The recent trend has been that more osteopathic students opt for ACGME residencies- I think the numbers are like 60-40

There was a thread on this
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=495638

 

[bioteach]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO...

My girlfriend's co worker ... made derogatory comments about DOs

Your girlfriend's coworker!! I had no idea!!!!...****, I am going to call KCOM this afternoon and cancel my acceptance!!!!!!!!!!






JKM1 you are a sad little troll.

 

[112258]

I never claimed it to be a magic bullet, but that statement goes both ways. I do agree that it is just one more tool. I think it tends to go along with more of the mental aspect than anything. It is similar to acupuncture. There has been some light research done with that where they had the officially trained person placing needles all along the meridians and what not and then a person just kind of sticking needles wherever. The results weren't substantially different, although a percentage of both groups felt better. I don't care if the treatment involves licking a dog's a$$ if it makes them feel better and can avoid another medication on the laundry list. I have tried all the CAM stuff with little benefits for me, but that is me. I'm aware of that. The people that it does "work" on just have to realize that it isn't a cure all as well. If proper pain medications didn't work, but a few adjustments did then alright, but that seems to lead down the road of pain created by the mind...which is the worst kind in my opinion.

I really don't think in general you can say all OMM is a placebo/mental effect at all. Have you ever performed it at all? I'm not saying everything we learn is amazing and I think fixed everything. But if you feel a transverse process sticking out --> perform OMM --> transverse process is no longer sticking out...that has nothing to do with mental. If they have a limited ROM --> perform OMM --> the degree of their ROM improves = not placebo/mental. After we do everything, we recheck to make sure we can physically feel it has changed.

 

[112258]

Here's my reasons to go MD over DO,
* My friend who is a physician at a local hospital said that his hospital only hires DOs to do moonlighting and that the medical director will not hire a DO.

* At the same hospital my friend stated that "everyone knows who's a DO..." saying that they are thought of as 2nd class physicians.

* Many DOs feel that they need to take the USMLE to get the residencies they want. Why would one want to take 2 licensing exams if they don't need to by going MD? I mean, would you guys want to take 2 versions of MCAT? Just go for an MD and take the USMLE.

* Come match time, MD students match 96%, meaning only about 4% need to scramble (not matching and need to call/FAX residency programs to get accepted into a program). DO students match about 67 or 70%. This means about 30% of the DO students need to scramble. This can't be fun. Also, knowing that you didn't match because many of these MD programs didn't want you must do a number on your confidence.

* My professor suggested I go MD......she even unintentionally refer to the MD schools as "real medical school". Whether her opinion is justified or not is irrelevant. Many/most of the people who are aware of what a DO feel this way.

Two of docs I've worked with suggested I go MD over DO.

My friend suggested I go MD over DO.

My girlfriend's co worker who is also trying to goto med school made derogatory comments about DOs stating that DO schools are easier to get in etc.....

Pretty much everyone preferred MD over DO.

This is not to point out that one should do what the majority prefers. But, to point out the mentality that prevails.

If you say the belief of the majority doesn't matter, you are in denial. The entire marketing world works on people's general psychology of wanting to be accepted by the majority. Don't tell me your biology/psychology some how differs from the rest of the human race.

* Who the hell wants to go through more trouble to become what you all purport MD=DO? If they are all equal, I'd rather choose a degree that'll give me the best chance of practicing with less headache/work. I mean, the whole process is already a lot of work! Who needs more work (feeling like you need to take 2 licensing exams, higher chance of scrambling come residency match time etc.....) when it's already a lot of work??s

* Many of you are delusional in a sense that as the "old MDs retire off, the discrimination towards DOs will decrease". Dream on. I bet you this discrimination will take a LOT longer to die off. Have you read any of the threads on the pre allo forums? Believe me, they do not thing very highly of DOs. Yeah, these guys are far from being old MDs. They are pre meds or the ones applying to MD schools....the guys you'll work side by side with. Yeah, you should be aware that they do not think as highly of you as their MD counterparts ...remember that during your residencies and work. Sucks huh? I know. I wouldn't want that sort of feeling either. It's not fair since I feel that it shouldn't matter the was racial discrimination is unfair.

I can understand parts of what you are saying, because really I didn't know anything about osteopathic medicine until my pre-med advisor told me my junior year of college. So I don't blame people for ORIGINALLY thinking that maybe they are "inferior" or whatever...because they have never heard of them! That's not their fault.

HOWEVER what the "pre meds" say are honestly...rather ignorant. That is where you would ever encounter the most prejudice. I don't think any D.O.s are having a problem getting patients. Pre-meds say that now...then 4 years later they are working with them as residents. Or their attending is a D.O. Really, if you research it you will see that there are so many joint practices of D.O.s/M.D.s. We have M.D.s teaching us in different areas at LECOM. Why would they if everything wasn't equal? I do agree with what people saying in terms of its mostly the older one's saying that, PLUS the pre-meds. When you get out into doing clinical work, M.D.s and D.O.s work together, D.O.s will be the boss of M.D.s, M.D.s will be the boss of D.O.s...and this is all fact so its rather pointless to argue.

 

[JKM1]

So a few of your idiot, know nothing friends said "I heard that DOs are inferior so you should go MD," and you just go ahead and take there word for it? You're making this important decision in your life based on hearsay?
A fine physician you'll be....

Did you read what 2 physicians I've worked with said? Did you read what my professor said (she probably wrote a few hundred LORs in her life time since she's so popular with students and knows the ins and outs of med school application process/medicine....her hubby is an ER doc)?
That friend you are referring to is a physician.
Numerous people I'm referring to are not "your idiot, know nothing friends". You do not need to use words like "idiot" to make a point.

 

[JKM1]

I can understand parts of what you are saying, because really I didn't know anything about osteopathic medicine until my pre-med advisor told me my junior year of college. So I don't blame people for ORIGINALLY thinking that maybe they are "inferior" or whatever...because they have never heard of them! That's not their fault.

HOWEVER what the "pre meds" say are honestly...rather ignorant. That is where you would ever encounter the most prejudice. I don't think any D.O.s are having a problem getting patients. Pre-meds say that now...then 4 years later they are working with them as residents. Or their attending is a D.O. Really, if you research it you will see that there are so many joint practices of D.O.s/M.D.s. We have M.D.s teaching us in different areas at LECOM. Why would they if everything wasn't equal? I do agree with what people saying in terms of its mostly the older one's saying that, PLUS the pre-meds. When you get out into doing clinical work, M.D.s and D.O.s work together, D.O.s will be the boss of M.D.s, M.D.s will be the boss of D.O.s...and this is all fact so its rather pointless to argue.

I partially agree with you. I mean DOs and MDs are all physicians. As long as one is a competent and caring physician, I do not care.

BUT

the world doesn't work that way. There are pecking orders, prejudices and perceptions which all matter in life. And don't even say they don't matter. They do. You do too...all of you. It's unfortunate we need to but we do instinctively. It's human nature.

In real life, unbeknownst to the DO (according to my MD friend who has seen this.....MD chiefs verbally stating that he'll not hire DOs as reg staff in his hospital.) these conversations take place. DOs don't hear it because the MDs don't say these things in front of you.

So, yes....after you graduate, you'll face discrimination whether you realize it or not.

 

[justletmeinplz]

Did you read what 2 physicians I've worked with said? Did you read what my professor said (she probably wrote a few hundred LORs in her life time since she's so popular with students and knows the ins and outs of med school application process/medicine....her hubby is an ER doc)?
That friend you are referring to is a physician.
Numerous people I'm referring to are not "your idiot, know nothing friends". You do not need to use words like "idiot" to make a point.

I'll put the combined experience of the physicians, researchers, friends in the medical field, etc. that I know against those that you do any day of the week. I have family members that are doctors, nurses and hospital administrators. I've worked in research labs and a teaching hospitals affiliated a with major university. People I associate with closely have their finger on the pulse of the medical field...where it's at, where it's headed....as a result, I can't claim to know it all (far from it) but I can call BS on issues like this when I see it, and in your post, I saw it. So, I really don't give a damn what you or your friends or professors have to say. I can assure you, based on what you've said, your "friends" don't know what the hell they're talking about.

edit: I'd like to clarify that when discussing my options with various people "in the know," the general consensus was that it would obviously be easier to obtain a competitive ACGME residency by going to a MD school...I'm pretty sure everyone knows that though. That's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is that not a single person told me that DOs received an inferior education, or that DOs were generally less competent physicians. No one had any motivation to tell me anything other than what they felt to be the truth, either....especially not my dad.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on here with an MD parent or relative. Anyone else have MD family that advocated for, against or were neutral to a DO education?

 

[JaggerPlate]

In real life, unbeknownst to the DO (according to my MD friend who has seen this.....MD chiefs verbally stating that he'll not hire DOs as reg staff in his hospital.) these conversations take place. DOs don't hear it because the MDs don't say these things in front of you.

Bout time a pre-med came in here and lectured everyone about real life!! You guys heard it ... he has a friend who said he saw this happen. Wake up to the real world. DOs don't hear this, the MDs, this guy, and his friend, only have these convos in physician lounges for real doctors. I have a cousin, who has a friend that shadowed over two physicians who said that at his hospital DOs can only enter the hospital from the back entrance, crack some bones, and then go home. Separate drinking fountains too. Sorry people, this is the real world ... all the DO med students, residents, and attending in these forums don't know about it. Thanks for informing us of this shocking information JKM1. (I hope I didn't get too up in arms for public opinion on that one, I know this has been quite a debated issue lately) ...

 

[justletmeinplz]

Good one Jagger.

But I doubt anything we say, be it logical, humorous or anything else, is going to have any affect on how this idiot or any other idiot feels about the situation. I'm done with it.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I have a cousin, who has a friend that shadowed over two physicians who said that at his hospital DOs can only enter the hospital from the back entrance, crack some bones, and then go home. Separate drinking fountains too.

Hilarious. I actually laughed out loud about the drinking fountain part (totally serious)

I'll put the combined experience of the physicians, researchers, friends in the medical field, etc.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on here with an MD parent or relative. Anyone else have MD family that advocated for, against or were neutral to a DO education?

You are going to find different degrees of acceptance in different areas of the country. In the south east you will find a significant amt of resistance.

 

[DrMidlife]

You are going to find different degrees of acceptance in different areas of the country. In the south east you will find a significant amt of resistance.

Not so in Florida. Which is pretty darned south and east.

 

[WDeagle]

Not so in Florida. Which is pretty darned south and east.

I agree about the DO resistance in the South. Hopefully this will change with all the new DO schools in the south. Florida may be in the south and east part of the country but it is not the "southeast" or the "south." Things are alot different in florida.

 

[spicedmanna]

Don't let this decay into name-calling and an MD vs. DO debate.

I just want to remind everyone that this is a pre-professional forum. We expect professional conduct and adherence to the TOS, which prohibits personal attacks and insults. Please keep the discussion civil and do not attack other members. If you feel genuinely offended by another member's comments, or feel that the comments are inflammatory, instead of reverting to personal attacks and such, a violation of the TOS, I recommend reporting the post.

Thanks for your help.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

MD sucks!
DO rules!
Fight fight fight!

 

[justletmeinplz]

Hilarious. I actually laughed out loud about the drinking fountain part (totally serious)



You are going to find different degrees of acceptance in different areas of the country. In the south east you will find a significant amt of resistance.

I doubt that. What do you consider significant resistance? Picketing outside your office? I'd say, at most, you'd have a few less patients sent your way by a small number of MDs. Remember though, DOs continue to specialize and their numbers are on the rise. Finding patients isn't currently an issue and it won't be in the future.

 

[Instatewaiter]

That was my nice way of saying that DOs are not regarded very highly in the south east. In otherwords, the stigma that everyone keeps saying doesnt exist, still does in the south east.

 

[scpod]

That was my nice way of saying that DOs are not regarded very highly in the south east. In otherwords, the stigma that everyone keeps saying doesnt exist, still does in the south east.

That kind of blanket statement is kind of odd coming from someone whose chosen profession is based on evidence. You clearly have none....but you have an opinion. Now, you may have made some observations based on your current situation and come to some conclusions...but I'll have to tell you that the environment in Richmond is unlike most of the southeast. I lived in Henrico County for a while. They have no idea in that part of Virginia that the Civil War is even over yet. It's not surprising that you might have seen some evidence of discrimination.

Yet, in my 44 years I've lived in quite a few other areas in the southeast as well. I know that this "stigma" exists more in your head than in this geographical area of the US.