Desire to match Heme/ Onc! Possible?

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Hey guys,

I’m a recent graduate of UCLA and am applying DO this cycle. I’m from California and would like to practice here as well. What DO schools would you recommend I apply to/ would give me the best chance if I have my sight set on Heme/ Onc?

I have a 3.83 gpa and have shadowed a DO but only have a 508 MCAT. I realize MD is out of the question but I just badly want to match Heme/ Onc. It’s been a lifelong goal of mine due to family experiences.

Thanks

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[FutureDoctor5000]

Do well in school, do research and do well on step 2 and pass step 1, match at a decent university IM program or community program with in-house fellowship and heme onc will be very doable. No one DO school is superior in terms of matching heme/onc so go to the cheapest one that isn't a new school.

 

[BoneWizard]

MSU is affiliated with Ascension Providence as well as Ascension Genesys. Both sites have an IM and Heme/Onc fellowship in house. NOVA has multiple affiliated residency programs with Larkin and uses the hospital as a core site. Larkin has a IM program as well as Heme/Onc in house. Both were previous AOA programs that transitioned. I'd focus on those two if you're dead set on Heme/Onc but both also happen to be fine programs on their own.

I'd try for MD with a 3.8/508 though. Just apply broadly. It'll be easier returning to Cali from out of state as a MD than a DO.

 

[Schwifty]

Hey guys,

I’m a recent graduate of UCLA and am applying DO this cycle. I’m from California and would like to practice here as well. What DO schools would you recommend I apply to/ would give me the best chance if I have my sight set on Heme/ Onc?

I have a 3.83 gpa and have shadowed a DO but only have a 508 MCAT. I realize MD is out of the question but I just badly want to match Heme/ Onc. It’s been a lifelong goal of mine due to family experiences.

Thanks

MD isn't out of the question, apply broadly to low tier MD school

 

[zNoodlez]

It'll be easier returning to Cali from out of state as a MD than a DO.

For residency or employment wise?

 

[BoneWizard]

For residency or employment wise?

Residency. I don't think anyone really cares what degree you have once you've finished residency.

 

[drducky.]

but in your other post today, you said you were taking the mcat in aug/sep, where did you get the 508 from?

 

[benruitz98]

but in your other post today, you said you were taking the mcat in aug/sep, where did you get the 508 from?

I assume OP is retaking since a 508 for a Cali applicant is lethal for MD.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

MSU is affiliated with Ascension Providence as well as Ascension Genesys. Both sites have an IM and Heme/Onc fellowship in house. NOVA has multiple affiliated residency programs with Larkin and uses the hospital as a core site. Larkin has a IM program as well as Heme/Onc in house. Both were previous AOA programs that transitioned. I'd focus on those two if you're dead set on Heme/Onc but both also happen to be fine programs on their own.

I'd try for MD with a 3.8/508 though. Just apply broadly. It'll be easier returning to Cali from out of state as a MD than a DO.

Larkin is an absolute ****hole. I wouldn’t touch any of their programs with anything.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Residency. I don't think anyone really cares what degree you have once you've finished residency.

Just like with anything, some jobs will care and others won’t. I know an ENT group in town that refuses to hire anyone trained at a former AOA program.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hey guys,

I’m a recent graduate of UCLA and am applying DO this cycle. I’m from California and would like to practice here as well. What DO schools would you recommend I apply to/ would give me the best chance if I have my sight set on Heme/ Onc?

I have a 3.83 gpa and have shadowed a DO but only have a 508 MCAT. I realize MD is out of the question but I just badly want to match Heme/ Onc. It’s been a lifelong goal of mine due to family experiences.

Thanks

Hematology/Oncology is a very realistic for DO students and all your goals are still ahead of you. The first step is to do well in medical school. Pass all your Step exams on the first attempt. Focus on Step 2 CK and try to honor your Internal Medicine rotation when you get there. All that will contribute to the quality of Internal Medicine (IM) residency you match at. After that, the reputation of your IM residency will play a large role in your competitiveness for Heme/Onc fellowship but I will say that Heme/Onc overall is attainable even from low tier academic IM programs and even if your program and profile is significantly lower than average, doing more research than others and doing a chief year of IM residency will get you where you want to be.

EDIT: Doing more research when in residency. Not having publications in separate fields in undergrad.

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Hematology/Oncology is a very realistic for DO students and all your goals are still ahead of you. The first step is to do well in medical school. Pass all your Step exams on the first attempt. Focus on Step 2 CK and try to honor your Internal Medicine rotation when you get there. All that will contribute to the quality of Internal Medicine (IM) residency you match at. After that, the reputation of your IM residency will play a large role in your competitiveness for Heme/Onc fellowship but I will say that Heme/Onc overall is attainable even from low tier academic IM programs and even if your program and profile is significantly lower than average, doing more research than others and doing a chief year of IM residency will get you where you want to be.

So when it comes to research/ pubs, do they all have to be pertaining to the field of Heme/Onc? What if you have a few publications from a different field (i.e. endocrinology)? Will they be looked at favorably as well?

 

[Redpancreas]

So when it comes to research/ pubs, do they all have to be pertaining to the field of Heme/Onc? What if you have a few publications from a different field (i.e. endocrinology)? Will they be looked at favorably as well?

Focus on your grades and scores in medical school. You can work on publications in residency because as a DO, having those pubs won't matter for residency. Briefly (as to not encourage excessive future speculation) the endocrine pubs will be looked at favorably, but not as favorably as any heme/onc publications. Good luck.

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Do well in school, do research and do well on step 2 and pass step 1, match at a decent university IM program or community program with in-house fellowship and heme onc will be very doable. No one DO school is superior in terms of matching heme/onc so go to the cheapest one that isn't a new school.

MD isn't out of the question, apply broadly to low tier MD school

I am thinking of applying to 10-12 DO schools (just because I don’t want to leave anything to chance this year). Here is my list so far:

1. Touro CA
2. Touro NV
3. Western- Pomona (CA)
4. AZCOM
5. CCOM
6. KCU
7. DMU
8. VCOM- VA
9. NYITCOM
10. PCOM

Still deciding on the final two places, but I heard VCOM-VA is on the Virginia tech campus, so do you think that would facilitate research and be advantageous for getting into an academic IM residency? Or is that more for fellowship apps?

If I want to stay in California, should I make it a point to choose a CA school over the original 5 even? Keeping in mind Heme/ONC is my ultimate goal

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Focus on your grades and scores in medical school. You can work on publications in residency because as a DO, having those pubs won't matter for residency. Briefly (as to not encourage excessive future speculation) the endocrine pubs will be looked at favorably, but not as favorably as any heme/onc publications. Good luck.

Sorry I forgot to say that these are pubs I obtained in undergrad. The endocrinology pubs.

 

[Redpancreas]

Sorry I forgot to say that these are pubs I obtained in undergrad. The endocrinology pubs.

I got that, and yeah, they'll be of some marginal favorability when applying to residency and maybe to fellowship to fuel any compulsive speculation you have. That said, pretty much anything you do moving forward will carry more weight. Good luck!

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Larkin is an absolute ****hole. I wouldn’t touch any of their programs with anything.

Wait why do you say this? It is my assumption that as long as you can do a Heme/Onc fellowship at ANY program, you're pretty much set for a job anywhere you like?

1. As a novice, It appears that getting into an Academic IM program should be the highest priority (to be able to do a lot of research), and not a community IM program.

2. The real question I think is are there certain DO schools out there that will increase your likelihood of matching into a Mid-tier Academic IM program over others (Original 5 vs Western-Pomona vs Touro-CA/NV) and if teaching hospitals matter in this regard at all?

@Angus Avagadro @Redpancreas @Schwifty @BoneWizard

 

[Goro]

Hey guys,

I’m a recent graduate of UCLA and am applying DO this cycle. I’m from California and would like to practice here as well. What DO schools would you recommend I apply to/ would give me the best chance if I have my sight set on Heme/ Onc?

I have a 3.83 gpa and have shadowed a DO but only have a 508 MCAT. I realize MD is out of the question but I just badly want to match Heme/ Onc. It’s been a lifelong goal of mine due to family experiences.

Thanks

Yup, doable. Being at the top of your Class will help a lot.

 

[Lawpy]

There are Caribbean grads who match into heme/onc. Doing so as a DO is definitely possible and it's not necessary to be in top of class (although it helps). You need to aim for a university IM program to help with fellowship match

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

Yup, doable. Being at the top of your Class will help a lot.

Thanks, Goro!

I'm thinking of applying to 10 DO schools. Do you have any suggestions with my stats? The following are given, because I would love to stay in CA.

-Western Pomona
-Touro CA
-Touro NV

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

There are Caribbean grads who match into heme/onc. Doing so as a DO is definitely possible and it's not necessary to be in top of class (although it helps). You need to aim for a university IM program to help with fellowship match

Do you believe that there are certain DO schools that are better at placing medical students into university IM programs compared to others?

Also, do you know the benefit of having a teaching hospital with your medical school? Does this at all play any role in your ability to match into an academic IM?

 

[Lawpy]

Do you believe that there are certain DO schools that are better at placing medical students into university IM programs compared to others?

Also, do you know the benefit of having a teaching hospital with your medical school? Does this at all play any role in your ability to match into an academic IM?

The established schools are the best (so KCU, MSUCOM etc), and having an associated teaching hospital always helps

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Wait why do you say this?

Because Larkin is terrible and this is pretty well known in the DO world. If you are applying IM you will have much better options than Larkin.

It is my assumption that as long as you can do a Heme/Onc fellowship at ANY program, you're pretty much set for a job anywhere you like?

This is a false assumption. Training absolutely matters, even if people don't like to admit it. There are definitely desirable private groups that will not hire people from crappy, unknown training programs. A grad from Larkin Heme/Onc will be much more limited on the job hunt than someone from a recognizable university fellowship. This doesn't even include the academic ladder where the training program you come from matters quite a bit.

I have seen this personally with DO surgery and ENT program graduates. You will have no issues getting a job, but you will have a harder time getting the job you want if the job you want is in a decently competitive market.

Do you believe that there are certain DO schools that are better at placing medical students into university IM programs compared to others?

Also, do you know the benefit of having a teaching hospital with your medical school? Does this at all play any role in your ability to match into an academic IM?

Yes there are DO schools with more resources (i.e. research) that can make your life easier, but you can definitely match academic IM from any DO school. Having a teaching hospital always helps for matching pretty much anything.

 

[Goro]

Thanks, Goro!

I'm thinking of applying to 10 DO schools. Do you have any suggestions with my stats? The following are given, because I would love to stay in CA.

-Western Pomona
-Touro CA
-Touro NV

Yup, apply to those and PacNW as well

 

[Redpancreas]

OP, I don’t dispute DOVinciGuy’s comments about Larkin in particular as I don’t know the program, but I personally think that getting concerned about which Heme/Onc fellowship programs you'll be competitive for at this pre-medical stage is misguided. The bottom line is that being a DO will not limit you from practicing Heme/Onc if you’re willing to put the work in at several stages. Heme/Onc is not THAT competitive.

I again maintain that you are putting the cart astronomically before the horse with all this. I try to give thoughtful answers, but I just think you just need to either browse SDN more (because this kind of stuff is all we talk about 24/7) and start medical school to gain more perspective into all this. I think anyone advising you about this now is doing more harm than good. Sorry if that’s frustrating to hear.

You can start with this write up I wrote a few years ago:

Insight into Pre-Medical Decisions from a Resident (factors in choosing a school, life outlook, etc)

Hey SDN Pre-Med Community, I'm now a resident physician and would like to type up a bit about some things I wished I'd known when applying. Forgive me if some of this stuff is now obvious. I know the stakes get higher every year and as a result, pre-meds are becoming more and more knowledgeable...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[DOVinciRobot]

OP, I don’t dispute DOVinciGuy’s comments about Larkin in particular as I don’t know the program, but I personally think that getting concerned about which Heme/Onc programs are good at this stage of your medical pathway is misguided. The bottom line is that being a DO will not limit you if you’re willing to put the work in at several stages. Heme/Onc is not THAT competitive.

I again maintain that you are putting the cart astronomically before the horse with all this. I try to give thoughtful answers, but I think you just need to either browse SDN more (because this kind of stuff is all we talk about) and start medical school to gain more perspective into all this. I think anyone advising you about this now is doing more harm than good. Sorry if that’s frustrating to hear.

You can start with this write up I wrote a few years ago:

Insight into Pre-Medical Decisions from a Resident (factors in choosing a school, life outlook, etc)

Hey SDN Pre-Med Community, I'm now a resident physician and would like to type up a bit about some things I wished I'd known when applying. Forgive me if some of this stuff is now obvious. I know the stakes get higher every year and as a result, pre-meds are becoming more and more knowledgeable...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I agree with this. Start medical school and try to become the most competitive applicant you can, and the rest will kind of fall into place the further along you get.

 

[Jack-Kennedy35]

OP, I don’t dispute DOVinciGuy’s comments about Larkin in particular as I don’t know the program, but I personally think that getting concerned about which Heme/Onc programs are good at this stage of your medical pathway is misguided. The bottom line is that being a DO will not limit you if you’re willing to put the work in at several stages. Heme/Onc is not THAT competitive.

I again maintain that you are putting the cart astronomically before the horse with all this. I try to give thoughtful answers, but I think you just need to either browse SDN more (because this kind of stuff is all we talk about) and start medical school to gain more perspective into all this. I think anyone advising you about this now is doing more harm than good. Sorry if that’s frustrating to hear.

You can start with this write up I wrote a few years ago:

Insight into Pre-Medical Decisions from a Resident (factors in choosing a school, life outlook, etc)

Hey SDN Pre-Med Community, I'm now a resident physician and would like to type up a bit about some things I wished I'd known when applying. Forgive me if some of this stuff is now obvious. I know the stakes get higher every year and as a result, pre-meds are becoming more and more knowledgeable...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I agree with this. Start medical school and try to become the most competitive applicant you can, and the rest will kind of fall into place the further along you get.

Hey guys,

Sorry if I am appearing like I'm getting ahead of myself. Heme/Onc has been a dream of mine since I was a child and experienced so many tragedies with family and so I want to be sure that the school I'll be going to will allow me to best pursue this. Naturally, I assume that certain schools are better placed to send their student to Academic IM programs over others, and so that's why I want to make an informed decision.

1. Ex./ I would love to stay in CA, and so Western- Pomona is my number 1 choice, but having said that if KCU/ DMU will give me a better shot to match into an academic IM program then ofc I would take those instantly.

2. Furthermore, people bring up that going to a DO school with a teaching hospital (Touro-Nevada for example) would be very advantageous. But how exactly will this be beneficial to me in matching into an Academic IM program?

3. Then ultimately, if I am deciding between Western- Pomona (stay in Cali) vs Touro Nevada (Teaching Hospital) vs KCU/ DMU (original 5 reputation) which choice would be the best for my future aspiration? This is the penultimate question for me.

Thank you so much for your support and assistance. I really appreciate it. @DOVinciRobot @Redpancreas

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Ex./ I would love to stay in CA, and so Western- Pomona is my number 1 choice, but having said that if KCU/ DMU will give me a better shot to match into an academic IM program then ofc I would take those instantly.

Furthermore, people bring up that going to a DO school with a teaching hospital (Touro-Nevada for example) would be very advantageous. But how exactly will this be beneficial to me in matching into an Academic IM program?

Then ultimately, if I am deciding between Western- Pomona (stay in Cali) vs Touro Nevada (Teaching Hospital) vs KCU/ DMU (original 5 reputation) which choice would be the best for my future aspiration? This is the penultimate question for me.

1. Touro Nevada does not have a teaching hospital lol.

2. none of those schools will offer any sort of real advantage over the others.

3. go where you want to go, which in this case appears to be Western.

Teaching hospitals give an advantage because your letter writers are academics, you can network with programs easier, and if you have an in house program it can increase your odds of matching.

 

[Redpancreas]

1. Touro Nevada does not have a teaching hospital lol.

2. none of those schools will offer any sort of real advantage over the others.

3. go where you want to go, which in this case appears to be Western.

Teaching hospitals give an advantage because your letter writers are academics, you can network with programs easier, and if you have an in house program it can increase your odds of matching.

Agree with this. I’m an MD so I will leave any comparisons of DO schools to people who’ve been in that position, but from an outsiders perspective, these are three fairly average DO schools with none sticking out. You can surely do well and match a great IM program from there and potentially a great Heme/Onc fellowship, but it will take work and there’s no “informed decision” to really make here. Keep in mind the school doesn't always make the applicant!

 

[Lem0nz]

Thanks, Goro!

I'm thinking of applying to 10 DO schools. Do you have any suggestions with my stats? The following are given, because I would love to stay in CA.

-Western Pomona
-Touro CA
-Touro NV

OP why are you not applying broadly to MD schools across the country? If accepted this will be an objectively easier path to get into heme/onc (and return to California). The cost is attending medical school out of Cali, but you seem already OK with this notion per your posting if I'm reading it correctly. MD school may also be cheaper. Others have given this advice and you sort of just glossed over it.

 

[FistLength]

Hey guys,

I’m a recent graduate of UCLA and am applying DO this cycle. I’m from California and would like to practice here as well. What DO schools would you recommend I apply to/ would give me the best chance if I have my sight set on Heme/ Onc?

I have a 3.83 gpa and have shadowed a DO but only have a 508 MCAT. I realize MD is out of the question but I just badly want to match Heme/ Onc. It’s been a lifelong goal of mine due to family experiences.

Thanks

Doesn't matter which DO school you go to IMHO, as they are more or less equally deplorable to the MD's eyes. Your limiting step will be which residency you get into. Best bet is a mid tier IM program, but many super community hospitals have heme/onc fellowships. Whichever IM residency you go to, make sure it has a fellowship. You can do a chief year to cement your chances.

 

[ortnakas]

OP, I don’t know if you can afford to be picky about both California and heme-onc opportunities. You may have to choose.

Also, consider LECOM. I know admin and pre-clinical years have a bad rep on here, but I can think of multiple classmates from my year and the previous one who ultimately matched heme-onc or other subspecialties at academic centers.