Dermatology residency after Neurology?

[MDapp06]

Hi All,

I am completing a neurology residency at a strong program in California, but I have always been interested in dermatology (completed a dermatology research project with a publication in medical school). I unfortunately had below-average Step 1 and 2 scores for dermatology (210's), and only received a Pass evaluation for my dermatology rotation at my medical school. My question is: is it possible to apply for dermatology residency positions during my PGY-3 or PGY-4 year in neurology? Do I stand a chance compared to fourth year medical students or physicians who have completed an internal medicine residency and are applying for dermatology residency positions? I'm trying to plan ahead for how to make a strong case without looking like I am indecisive. I am interested in all aspects of dermatology, but I think I can offer something unique in terms of neurocutaneous diseases. What do I have to do to make a strong application to dermatology residency programs?

Thank you for your advice,

mdapp06

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[asmallchild]

Hi All,

I am completing a neurology residency at a strong program in California, but I have always been interested in dermatology (completed a dermatology research project with a publication in medical school). I unfortunately had below-average Step 1 and 2 scores for dermatology (210's), and only received a Pass evaluation for my dermatology rotation at my medical school. My question is: is it possible to apply for dermatology residency positions during my PGY-3 or PGY-4 year in neurology? Do I stand a chance compared to fourth year medical students or physicians who have completed an internal medicine residency and are applying for dermatology residency positions? I'm trying to plan ahead for how to make a strong case without looking like I am indecisive. I am interested in all aspects of dermatology, but I think I can offer something unique in terms of neurocutaneous diseases. What do I have to do to make a strong application to dermatology residency programs?

Thank you for your advice

mdapp06

Perhaps someone who has gone through a similar path can comment, I am unclear of how funding issues may affect your application

Is it possible to apply? Certainly. Do you stand a chance/what do you have to do to enhance your application? I think reapplicants are always looking at an uphill battle. PDs will ask why they should take you over a new batch of highly qualified MS4's. I think linking your interest in neurology with dermatology (interesting approach with neurocutaneous diseases) and being sure you have proven to be an outstanding clinician in neurology (with the LORs to match) would be a good start.

 

[N-Surge]

I've actually seen this. Not sure who paid. Pretty sweat combo though!

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[MDapp06]

Thank you asmallchild and N-Surge!

N-Surge - do you know what kind of strategy that applicant had in terms of research, LORs, personal statement? Did he/she match at the same institution where they completed their neurology residency? Was his/her neurology program director supportive of his/her application to dermatology residencies?

Asmallchild - do you know how I could find out information about funding? I know there are limitations regarding the number of years of residency training that programs are able to pay for, but I was wondering how to get information about funding since I would have completed 4 years of post-graduate training.

Does anyone know if I would have to complete an internship year again, or could I begin Dermatology as a second-year resident after graduating from Neurology residency? Since ERAS applications are for advanced PGY-2 positions, how would I go about applying for a second-year Dermatology residency position?

Thank you again for all of the advice - I'm really trying to make this happen.

mdapp06

 

[MDapp06]

Just to clarify - I didn't apply to Dermatology residency positions in medical school, so I am assuming that I wouldn't be considered a re-applicant.

 

[asmallchild]

Thank you asmallchild and N-Surge!

N-Surge - do you know what kind of strategy that applicant had in terms of research, LORs, personal statement? Did he/she match at the same institution where they completed their neurology residency? Was his/her neurology program director supportive of his/her application to dermatology residencies?

Asmallchild - do you know how I could find out information about funding? I know there are limitations regarding the number of years of residency training that programs are able to pay for, but I was wondering how to get information about funding since I would have completed 4 years of post-graduate training.

Does anyone know if I would have to complete an internship year again, or could I begin Dermatology as a second-year resident after graduating from Neurology residency? Since ERAS applications are for advanced PGY-2 positions, how would I go about applying for a second-year Dermatology residency position?

Thank you again for all of the advice - I'm really trying to make this happen.

mdapp06

I unfortunately don't. Hopefully someone with a similar experience can chime in. I've met residents who have completed residencies in medicine, pediatrics, and even ENT before going through dermatology residency so it can be done, I'm just unfamiliar with some of the issues that may arise.

A good source for information may be your GME office or house staff office within your institution

 

[N-Surge]

This resident was at a university I was rotating at. Don't know him personally. His wife was practicing in the program he was doing his residency in.

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[reno911]

This resident was at a university I was rotating at. Don't know him personally. His wife was practicing in the program he was doing his residency in.

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So his wife was Derm faculty? I don't think that's exactly a viable option for most neurologists that are looking to go into derm.

 

[N-Surge]

Agreed. Probably not. However, this does demonstrate what it might take...

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[MDapp06]

Thank you everyone for your responses!

I unfortunately don't have a connection like that - I don't have a significant other who is in a dermatology residency or who is faculty in a dermatology department. Hopefully there is another way to make the transition from neurology to dermatology!

If anyone else has advice, please let me know (feel free to PM me). If anyone knows someone who completed a prior residency in neurology (or any other field) and subsequently completed a dermatology residency, it would be really great to hear about their experience in making the transition. Thanks again for all of the help!

mdapp06

 

[MDapp06]

Hi All,

I wanted to reach out and ask if anyone has additional advice for me regarding my situation (I started this thread back in March). I am wondering if I would be considered a less desirable candidate for dermatology residency after I complete my neurology residency (I am currently a PGY2 neurology resident), mainly because of funding issues with post-graduate training. Would it be wise to apply for dermatology residency positions now instead of completing my neurology residency program? I am trying to figure out the best way to position myself for success in securing a dermatology residency position.

Should I try to do a dermatology rotation at my academic medical center? I have been hesitant to do this because I don't want to give the impression that I am not committed to my current residency program. However, I also want to make contacts in the dermatology department and try to get involved with a research project. Does anyone know how I can accomplish this in a neutral way without causing my current residency program to be upset about my interest in dermatology?

Does anyone have advice regarding the timing of my application to dermatology programs, specifically if I should apply during my PGY3 or PGY4 year in my neurology residency program?

Please feel free to reach out to me if you have been through a similar situation, or if you know someone else who has made a transition into dermatology from a different specialty. It would be great to hear different experiences/stories.

Thank you for your advice,

mdapp06

 

[doc MD]

Hi All,

I am completing a neurology residency at a strong program in California, but I have always been interested in dermatology (completed a dermatology research project with a publication in medical school). I unfortunately had below-average Step 1 and 2 scores for dermatology (210's), and only received a Pass evaluation for my dermatology rotation at my medical school. My question is: is it possible to apply for dermatology residency positions during my PGY-3 or PGY-4 year in neurology? Do I stand a chance compared to fourth year medical students or physicians who have completed an internal medicine residency and are applying for dermatology residency positions? I'm trying to plan ahead for how to make a strong case without looking like I am indecisive. I am interested in all aspects of dermatology, but I think I can offer something unique in terms of neurocutaneous diseases. What do I have to do to make a strong application to dermatology residency programs?

Thank you for your advice,

mdapp06

Hi All,

I wanted to reach out and ask if anyone has additional advice for me regarding my situation (I started this thread back in March). I am wondering if I would be considered a less desirable candidate for dermatology residency after I complete my neurology residency (I am currently a PGY2 neurology resident), mainly because of funding issues with post-graduate training. Would it be wise to apply for dermatology residency positions now instead of completing my neurology residency program? I am trying to figure out the best way to position myself for success in securing a dermatology residency position.

Should I try to do a dermatology rotation at my academic medical center? I have been hesitant to do this because I don't want to give the impression that I am not committed to my current residency program. However, I also want to make contacts in the dermatology department and try to get involved with a research project. Does anyone know how I can accomplish this in a neutral way without causing my current residency program to be upset about my interest in dermatology?

Does anyone have advice regarding the timing of my application to dermatology programs, specifically if I should apply during my PGY3 or PGY4 year in my neurology residency program?

Please feel free to reach out to me if you have been through a similar situation, or if you know someone else who has made a transition into dermatology from a different specialty. It would be great to hear different experiences/stories.

Thank you for your advice,

mdapp06

I'm going to be more realistic about this and just tell you that you are wasting your time and likely to cause issues with your current program by wanting to pursue another program. But let us assume they are cool with that, your stats are still less than stellar than other applicants. Step1 is still going to be compared to another step1 which is averaging 245-250 compared to your 210. BTW, anyone that has your score did something amazing, either a derm fellowship where they wrote papers and published with the big wigs that will change the derm horizon or have a connection that doesn't require any work. Plus, all the fourth year medical students are actively rotating in the programs for months and months making connections; do you think you can do an away rotation? Now, let us assume further that you do get interviewed, why the hell would I a derm PD want an applicant that changed his mind in a mid-residency program? wouldn't they then be tempted again to change specialties if they aren't happy again? then you come back to your neurology residency and your neuro PD doesn't approve your contract for the following year for not being a team player.... now, you have no derm, no neurology. and it doesn't look like you took step3, so you aren't even a generalist too. That sucks.

 

[Dermography]

I actually DO think you have a chance given your current situation (ie your interest in neurology + derm). However, it's definitely going to be an uphill battle given your stats. If you have the time, the patience, and the determination to do this, it can definitely be done nonetheless. To do it in the most political way and to also rightfully justify your case and your interest, this is the route I'd recommend.

I really think you should finish your neurology residency first, for both the sake of your fellow residents who have to take your calls if you drop out and your image within the neurology and derm field.

As you are finishing up your neurology residency, you can tell both your neurology program and reach out to your institution's derm program at the same time, mentioning to them your interest in neurocutaneous disease. Pruritus is a big unexplored field in derm that undoubtedly needs a lot more research and studies, as well as cutaneous dysaesthesia like notalgia paresthetica, burning mouth syndrome, and reflex sympathetic dystrophy etc..

Start this kind of research as you are finishing up your neuro residency, collaborating with and between both departments. Plan to do a year of research fellowship after your neuro residency. Hopefully as you start your fellowship you would have at least gotten some results and publications so that you can have a much more polished CV for derm. If so, you can definitely apply then, and you will appear as a much more appealing candidate with a unique and justified interest in neurocutaneous diseases. At that point, I think you will definitely score some interviews. Some programs might even accept you outside the match (so that you don't have to wait an extra year after your fellowship year), or your own program might even take you outside the match given your uniqueness and the work/contribution you had generated.

Again, this does require a lot of commitment and time, and frankly academic derms like to see this kind of committment to make sure that you are a promising candidate. Taking shortcuts or inconveniencing others is definitely frowned upon.

Just my two cents. Hope this helps.

D

 

[pupster]

Hi All,

I am completing a neurology residency at a strong program in California, but I have always been interested in dermatology (completed a dermatology research project with a publication in medical school). I unfortunately had below-average Step 1 and 2 scores for dermatology (210's), and only received a Pass evaluation for my dermatology rotation at my medical school. My question is: is it possible to apply for dermatology residency positions during my PGY-3 or PGY-4 year in neurology? Do I stand a chance compared to fourth year medical students or physicians who have completed an internal medicine residency and are applying for dermatology residency positions? I'm trying to plan ahead for how to make a strong case without looking like I am indecisive. I am interested in all aspects of dermatology, but I think I can offer something unique in terms of neurocutaneous diseases. What do I have to do to make a strong application to dermatology residency programs?

Thank you for your advice,

mdapp06

And then there's this:

Hi All,

I was hoping to get some advice applying to ENT as a non-traditional applicant. I would like to apply to ENT this upcoming application cycle, and I was wondering if any of you can help me with some of my questions:

1. I will be completing my medicine intern year in June and I was wondering if it is possible to match into ENT after completing a medicine (ie. non-surgical) intern year?

2. Would I have to repeat my intern year if I match into ENT? I was wondering if there are programs where I could match into a PGY2 (ie. first year of ENT) position.

3. I do not have ENT research and I didn't do ENT away rotations as a medical student. I did a 2-week ENT rotation (received an Honors grade) at my home medical school and really enjoyed it, but I didn't think that I would be a competitive ENT applicant, therefore I didn't apply. My schedule during intern year doesn't really allow for me to do an ENT rotation. What is the best way that I can build ENT experience and demonstrate my commitment to the field?

4. Is it necessary to get a letter of recommendation from my current program director?

5. Who should I get letters of recommendation from, since I am already in the middle of my medicine intern year?

6. Are there programs that have research fellowships where there is a good chance that if you perform well during the research year, that you have a higher likelihood of matching into the residency program?

7. My Step 1 and 2 scores are between 200-210. Will this prevent me from getting interviews? This was a major reason that I didn't try to apply to ENT residency positions when I was a medical student. However, I have realized that ENT is my true passion and I want to do everything possible to be a practicing otolaryngologist. What can I do now to overcome the hurdle of sub-par Step 1 and 2 scores?

8. Should I take Step 3 and have a score available when I apply to ENT positions?

If anyone has advice for me, please let me know. I am really trying to gauge my chances of getting into ENT given that I am already in the middle of my intern year.

Thanks!

mdapp06

And then this...

Hi Everyone,

I am currently a PGY1 internal medicine resident at a university program. I always had an interest in radiology, but I was discouraged from applying due to low Step 1 and 2 scores (both between 200-210). I am realizing now that internal medicine is really not the best field for me, and that I should have applied to radiology residency programs in the first place. Would I have a better chance of getting a position as a PGY2 radiology resident if I apply as a PGY1, or should I wait to apply as a PGY2? Or should I apply as a PGY3 with the intention of completing internal medicine residency before beginning radiology residency?

Also, since I am already an internal medicine resident, will my application be viewed differently from candidates who are applying as fourth year medical students? Who should I focus on getting letters of recommendation from since it won't be possible to do a radiology elective as an IM resident? What factors in my application will be most important to radiology residency programs?

On a related note, if I don't match into radiology when I apply, I have plans to apply for GI fellowship after completing the IM residency I am currently in. Can anyone offer thoughts on if my time would be better spent making myself a competitive GI candidate vs. trying to get into radiology? I feel like radiology excites me more, but I also am unsure if I am a strong enough candidate to get a residency position. Can someone help me compare GI vs. radiology in terms of lifestyle, compensation, procedures, and innovation?

I apologize for the long post, and I would appreciate any thoughts as I contemplate this difficult decision.

...

That said, if you really feel like expecting you're going to be that lucky 0.05% that gets in w/ those stats, I'd network at Rush, since that's where you probably have the most contacts/best chance. They have a very strong research program, and spending 2-3 years in the lab may help you overcome your low step scores/indecision. Alternatively, I would see about trying to get in w/ the derm program at UCI since that's where you're apparently doing neurology. They typically take their fellows...well, at least they did before the "all in" policy.

 

[Dral]

Aaaaand all of that pretty much sums up why I'll be forever glad I put in the time and effort to do well on step 1.

OP, decide and focus. If you want something, there is usually a way. Your problem seems to be that you don't even know what you want.

 

[pupster]

Aaaaand all of that pretty much sums up why I'll be forever glad I put in the time and effort to do well on step 1.

OP, decide and focus. If you want something, there is usually a way. Your problem seems to be that you don't even know what you want.

Word...