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futball&football

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I am currently in the process of applying for the Army HPSP scholarship. I have spoken with my recruiter, and he has told me something that I think is not accurate. I've read on these forums that deployments during the active duty obligation can be sent anywhere and from 9-15 months at a time. However, my recruiter told me that deployments can be "first come, first serve" type deal (people volunteering to deploy). He made it seem like the Army does not force anyone to deploy. I find this hard to believe. Can anyone clear this up?

From reading these forums, it sounds like the Army owns you for 4 years (that is what I originally assumed would happen.) What is the process of deploying once you reach active duty?

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you can always volunteer. but more often than not you will be voluntold. certain specialties are less likely to deploy (ie- pathology), but anyone can be slotted as a brigade surgeon as part of their "career progression" and subsequently sent to somewhere-stan with the rest of the unit. don't join the army if you don't want to deploy.
 
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Never ceases to amaze me the kind of outright lies that come from recruiters, as well as the more subtle but deliberately misleading comments they make to downplay the recruit's concerns.

If you join the Army, you'll deploy when they tell you to. But you knew that. :)

At the height of the Iraq war there were Army people getting deployed for 18 month blocks. That is not typical, and probably represents an absolute worst case scenario. Usually deployments are under a year. 7 months was the usual duration for Navy.
 
you can always volunteer. but more often than not you will be voluntold. certain specialties are less likely to deploy (ie- pathology), but anyone can be slotted as a brigade surgeon as part of their "career progression" and subsequently sent to somewhere-stan with the rest of the unit. don't join the army if you don't want to deploy.

Not entirely true. A handful of specialties are PROFIS only and cannot be slotted as a BDE Surgeon, GMO, or anything similar.
 
Not entirely true. A handful of specialties are PROFIS only and cannot be slotted as a BDE Surgeon, GMO, or anything similar.

Really? I've seen some pretty sub specialized people tasked for BDE surgeon type slots. Is there a list of "protected" specialties? I seriously don't know and have never heard this before.


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. I find this hard to believe.

the force is strong in this one. believe the recruiter, you should not.

.What is the process of deploying once you reach active duty?

the "process" is not standardized. which, considering we've been deploying, living, dying and otherwise fighting a war of varying scales for 15+ years now you would think they'd have figured out a better way. each person going through it will swear it's the first time their facility ever did such a thing.

the PROFIS (professional filler system) is how most of the warm bodies get deployed. organic docs (if you are assigned to the combat/line unit being deployed) go with their units. so they have a good idea of their deployment window, since most of the time these things have to be planned out, an NTC rotation made, etc etc. PROFIS docs, however, aren't so lucky. in an ideal world, you get assigned (on paper) to a unit. that unit, in garrison, doesn't need you. you live your naïve existence in your clinic, seeing patients, dodging the big green weenie when you can. then, when the unit gets tasked to train or deploy (and need a doctor), you get "tasked" to go join them for the fun. sounds simple, yes? well, not so much. because, let's say dr. jablowme or dr. fibromyalgia or dr. toogoodtogo are PROFIS to a unit-- or are approached with being "their turn" to be PROFIS. lets say they get a profile, get pregnant, PCS, etc etc. well, that tasking has not gone away, and depending on when they are removed, the time from them being removed to someone else being assigned gradually shrinks that "lead time" to the point where, no kidding, people may have as little as a week or two notification. if you are staff and aren't on a profile or in a non-deployable position, you're fair game.

when i deployed, i knew it was coming at some point. it's like your boss telling you "one day, when i pass you in the hall, I'm going to punch you in the face." at some point the waiting is worse than the outcome, and you just want to get it over with.

at the moment, by regulation, all army deployments are 9 months. splits are done by petitioning once you hit the ground in theater, and are up to your line command (not your bosses back home-- who still need to support you).

dwell times and "order of merit" lists are supposed to make things more "fair" and transparent, but you will find taskings will get picked over and traded around, and will sometimes leave you scratching your head. similar to Vietnam, sometimes it may benefit you to "volunteer" for a deployment if the writing is on the wall. better the devil you know.

--your friendly neighborhood 2x NTC 1x OIF t-shirt obtaining caveman
 
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i knew it was coming at some point. it's like your boss telling you "one day, when i pass you in the hall, I'm going to punch you in the face." at some point the waiting is worse than the outcome, and you just want to get it over with.

This is probably the most accurate description of the feeling you have when your deployment window comes up...

In EM we have weekly didactic sessions for the residents (a fun 5 hour block). We were taking a break between lectures when my commander turned to me and said "Oh, Dr. Bob, just so you know you've been tasked". Bam.
 
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Really? I've seen some pretty sub specialized people tasked for BDE surgeon type slots. Is there a list of "protected" specialties? I seriously don't know and have never heard this before.


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Psychiatry, Pathology, and I believe Neurology. Possibly others, but those are the only ones I know.
 
A handful of specialties are PROFIS only and cannot be slotted as a BDE Surgeon, GMO, or anything similar.

Psychiatry, Pathology, and I believe Neurology. Possibly others, but those are the only ones I know.

Ehh, half right and half wrong. I swore once long ago that I'd never be the kind of person who cited relevant passages of DA pamphlets, but...

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/p600_4.pdf

The idea that there are certain specialties that are protected from operational medicine comes from the relevant passage regarding the 62B AOC (which is the AOC for what we colloquially refer to as a GMO). 62B is a billet for medical officers at level below brigade (i.e. GMO or BTN SGN slots) and there are indeed specialties that are restricted from these slots like psychiatry, pathology, radiology, etc. As the primary role of a 62B is to function as a "doc in a box" seeing patients in a level I, one can see why it would be counterproductive to put people who haven't used a stethoscope or performed a physical exam since internship in these positions.

Indeed the 60A AOC is the designator for all operational physicians who serve in capacities at brigade level or higher (i.e. brigade surgeons, division surgeons, DCCS etc.). And the relevant language clearly states that these positions are "specialty immaterial". While certain specialties may be de facto protected from brigade surgeon spots, this has more to do with the staffing requirements of those specialties than any actual protection in the regulations. And in point of fact I know a pathologist who has served as a brigade surgeon, another pathologist whose last deployment was as the DCCS of an MTF in theatre, and a psychiatrist who is currently serving as the division psychiatrist for an infantry division famous for its heroism in The Great War.

TL;DR There are certain specialties protected from being battalion surgeons (62B), but no specialties are protected from being brigade surgeons or the equivalent (60A).
 
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Ehh, half right and half wrong. I swore once long ago that I'd never be the kind of person who cited relevant passages of DA pamphlets, but...

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/p600_4.pdf

The idea that there are certain specialties that are protected from operational medicine comes from the relevant passage regarding the 62B AOC (which is the AOC for what we colloquially refer to as a GMO). 62B is a billet for medical officers at level below brigade (i.e. GMO or BTN SGN slots) and there are indeed specialties that are restricted from these slots like psychiatry, pathology, radiology, etc. As the primary role of a 62B is to function as a "doc in a box" seeing patients in a level I, one can see why it would be counterproductive to put people who haven't used a stethoscope or performed a physical exam since internship in these positions.

Indeed the 60A AOC is the designator for all operational physicians who serve in capacities at brigade level or higher (i.e. brigade surgeons, division surgeons, DCCS etc.). And the relevant language clearly states that these positions are "specialty immaterial". While certain specialties may be de facto protected from brigade surgeon spots, this has more to do with the staffing requirements of those specialties than any actual protection in the regulations. And in point of fact I know a pathologist who has served as a brigade surgeon, another pathologist whose last deployment was as the DCCS of an MTF in theatre, and a psychiatrist who is currently serving as the division psychiatrist for an infantry division famous for their heroism in The Great War.

TL;DR There are certain specialties protected from being battalion surgeons (62B), but no specialties are protected from being brigade surgeons or the equivalent (60A).

Right, I was going to qualify this by adding that psychiatrists can still be assigned as division psychiatrists, but figured it was moot as they are still (somewhat) functioning as psychiatrists. The moral of the story is that there's operational fun to be had by all, although some specialties will just be at a different level/capacity than others.
 
Ehh, half right and half wrong. I swore once long ago that I'd never be the kind of person who cited relevant passages of DA pamphlets, but...

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/p600_4.pdf

The idea that there are certain specialties that are protected from operational medicine comes from the relevant passage regarding the 62B AOC (which is the AOC for what we colloquially refer to as a GMO). 62B is a billet for medical officers at level below brigade (i.e. GMO or BTN SGN slots) and there are indeed specialties that are restricted from these slots like psychiatry, pathology, radiology, etc. As the primary role of a 62B is to function as a "doc in a box" seeing patients in a level I, one can see why it would be counterproductive to put people who haven't used a stethoscope or performed a physical exam since internship in these positions.

Indeed the 60A AOC is the designator for all operational physicians who serve in capacities at brigade level or higher (i.e. brigade surgeons, division surgeons, DCCS etc.). And the relevant language clearly states that these positions are "specialty immaterial". While certain specialties may be de facto protected from brigade surgeon spots, this has more to do with the staffing requirements of those specialties than any actual protection in the regulations. And in point of fact I know a pathologist who has served as a brigade surgeon, another pathologist whose last deployment was as the DCCS of an MTF in theatre, and a psychiatrist who is currently serving as the division psychiatrist for an infantry division famous for its heroism in The Great War.

TL;DR There are certain specialties protected from being battalion surgeons (62B), but no specialties are protected from being brigade surgeons or the equivalent (60A).

Very good description of the regs and understanding of military medicine politics.

The bottom line in all of this can be summed up in 2 sentences. If you don't want to assume the risk of your medical career being destroyed by mandatory non-clinical work, don't join the military. Find some other avenue for loan repayment.
 
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