Dentistry not worth it. Period.

[zhngbrg]

Some pretty unprofessional replies to this thread IMO, and I'm not talking about the OP either. Although the title might be needlessly aggressive, clearly the author wrote this thread from a place of frustration with good intentions.

Not to mention the fact that I anticipate some of our professors in dental school will have similar words of wisdom about financial hardships we might experience upon graduating, sure hope your guys' immediate responses aren't to call them little b****es or insinuate that they're failures...

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[nowaysurvey]

In few years, if you become a dentist, you will think of that statement when you only have 1 hour to do a RCT on calcified 2nd molar and file separates. I promise

No hate as well!

I don't think you get what I'm trying to suggest here. I'm not questioning the idea as to whether or not dentistry is fun. What is fun is completely relative to each and every individual person. What I'm trying to point out was "Hack, if it was fun, why would anyone pay you to do it?" You do know many people out there get paid doing what they truly enjoy right? That statement almost seems like you're saying there's no point in working or being paid to work.

Anyways, I think this thread is counter-intiutive. But let's move on and be productive here. So it sounds like you dug yourself into a deep hole and are extremely miserable. Tell us what you plan to do. Assuming you have a load of loans still to pay off, I don't think you have much of a option to change your career (yet). How are you going to change or shed light into your situation? Or are you planning to do nothing and intend to be miserable for the rest of your life. Where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years and so forth?

Thanks.

 

[nowaysurvey]

Some pretty unprofessional replies to this thread IMO, and I'm not talking about the OP either. Although the title might be needlessly aggressive, clearly the author wrote this thread from a place of frustration with good intentions.

Not to mention the fact that I anticipate some of our professors in dental school will have similar words of wisdom about financial hardships we might experience upon graduating, sure hope your guys' immediate responses aren't to call them little b****es or insinuate that they're failures...

Yes, I suppose that was a little harsh of me to start of with that immediate response. But as you can clearly see, most here are tired of these threads. But at the same time wrote what they (myself included) said from a place of frustration but with good intentions as well. Regardless, there are no rules here (?) requiring one to speak formally or professionally, nor is anyone here (?) a professor. I think some just responded how they normally would (and is completely appropriate) seeing a how this was a needlessly aggressive title / thread as you put it.

 

[8_man]

Wait, so you mean I can't buy a new Porsche right out of dental school?

 

[oralcare123]

If people shadow dentists before applying to dental schools, why they keep getting surprised at the intensity with which they have to work after graduation? This is the question I keep asking myself every time I read thread like this

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

because looking/observing is so chill. the dentist I shadowed did all the work I just held the sunction tip.

 

[schmoob]

OP makes a brand new, UNVERIFIED, account just to tell people how AWFUL dentistry is. But it's OK, he's legit because name is "privatedds."
Then he says he doesn't even know if certain residencies even exist, despite being in the field of dentistry close to 10 years.
I highly doubt you're a real dentist because it sounds like you don't really know much about it. If you ARE a dentist, then maybe you should spend sometime learning more about all the aspects of your profession. Based on your comments and behavior, it sounds like you have lots to learn about dentistry AS A WHOLE. It also sounds like you are not confident in your clinical abilities. So if you're not that great of a dentist, it's not the profession of dentistry that's the problem. Time for some serious self-reflection.
No one owes you anything. So instead of wasting your time crying about it on the internet, try spending it figuring out ways to put yourself in a position to enjoy your career more and be more successful.
One more thing, if you truly are a dentist, what you're doing now is completely immature, irresponsible, and unprofessional. Readers believe you have the knowledge and know best. Many are young and will listen to whatever they are told. Your influence on them, based on your own personal shortcomings is reckless and selfish, and is not something that is expected of a person with your supposed level of education.

 

[Screwtape]

In few years, if you become a dentist, you will think of that statement when you only have 1 hour to do a RCT on calcified 2nd molar and file separates. I promise

No hate as well!

You picked one of the most technically challenging procedures in dentistry and then added a complication. What percentage of your practice is doing calcified 2nd molar endos? Who is stopping you from referring those ?

 

[THS]

150k is more than I'm expecting to make as an associate, and I'm okay with that. Because I don't plan on being an associate for long. As long as you're an employee, your salary is going to have some ceiling. And complaining about paying student loans after taxes only reinforces the fact that owning a practice is better. No, you don't need to shell out $500k for a new office. Scott Leune and Jayme Amos are doing start-ups for $200k-250k.

If you are spending $500k on a practice, it better be producing $800k, and the doctor better be taking home $200-300k.

Once you're an owner, there is no ceiling on how much money you can make. And you can pay off student loans with pre-tax dollars.


You're not complaining about being a dentist, you're complaining about being an employee, which is a very middle-class mindset. We need to think and grow rich, as Napoleon Hill would put it.

And besides, you're aren't taking into account that some people don't go into dentistry for the financial aspect, but because they actually like it. Dentistry is pretty damn cool. I mean the stuff we get to do is awesome. I love endo, I love digital smile design, I love operative. Getting to work with CAD/CAM, CBCTs, periolase, electrosurge, etc is all incredible to me. If you don't feel the same way, then it's only your fault for going into a field you don't like. And I'm not just talking about OP, but everyone in general that gripes about dentistry on these forums.

If you're a pre-dent and this concerns you (the rising cost of tuition should concern you, but not the field of dentistry), just consider this. Why aren't there more people on here bragging about how successful they are in their practice? Because they are too busy enjoying their lives, and they don't waste their time on this. Complainers have the loudest voices on the internet, and they all want to be heard.

 

[bjpenn]

OP makes a brand new, UNVERIFIED, account just to tell people how AWFUL dentistry is. But it's OK, he's legit because name is "privatedds."
Then he says he doesn't even know if certain residencies even exist, despite being in the field of dentistry close to 10 years.
I highly doubt you're a real dentist because it sounds like you don't really know much about it. If you ARE a dentist, then maybe you should spend sometime learning more about all the aspects of your profession. Based on your comments and behavior, it sounds like you have lots to learn about dentistry AS A WHOLE. It also sounds like you are not confident in your clinical abilities. So if you're not that great of a dentist, it's not the profession of dentistry that's the problem. Time for some serious self-reflection.
No one owes you anything. So instead of wasting your time crying about it on the internet, try spending it figuring out ways to put yourself in a position to enjoy your career more and be more successful.
One more thing, if you truly are a dentist, what you're doing now is completely immature, irresponsible, and unprofessional. Readers believe you have the knowledge and know best. Many are young and will listen to whatever they are told. Your influence on them, based on your own personal shortcomings is reckless and selfish, and is not something that is expected of a person with your supposed level of education.

OP is not even directing this at you, schmoob. Stop being so dramatic and hypersensitive.

 

[Proximally Challenged]

Hey guys,

Made a new acct to just clarify to folks that dentistry is not really worth it anymore.

I have been graduated for 4 years so I guess I do have a little bit of say in claiming that it's not really worth it.

A lot of folks back in dental school wasted their money thinking that they will make tons once they graduate and pay back loan in no time.

But, reality ain't like that.

A lot of friends make only around 150k as an associate and as you know, the pay doesn't really go up significantly. Its either you stay as associate or open your practice to make big bucks (but of course, you will have to take out a loan for an office which will cost you around 500k to have basic stuff)

Is it really worth it?

150K after tax and all those medicare/FICA BS taken off is worth around 90K. From this, you gotta pay your student loan + interest + car lease + car insurance + rent + electricity + cell phone bill + malpractice + disability insurance and etc etc. In the end, you are lucky to save 20k into your savings account.

And honestly, dentistry is not really fun. Hack, if it was fun, why would anyone pay you to do it?

I guess a lot of dental students are going to say "Oh I love doing restorations" "Oh I love doing crown preps"
"I love root canals" "I love extractions" blah blah, but you know what? I loved them all when I got 2-3 hours to work on a god damn single tooth. Not the case in private practice where you will be pressured to produce and you gotta do several restos in one visit or finish molar endo in less than an hour. It hurts my neck, my back and etc. Dentistry is a painful profession and pretty tedious as well.

So give it a thought. Actually, no. You don't know when you are in cushy dental school. Even residency is a joke compared to private practice. Do an observation of an medicaid office and ask yourself if you are going to be able to do it. (And don't pull this BS that you are gonna see only good insurance and FFS pts)




So my suggestion - go to cheap school, and if possible do that military thing which pays tuition. I regret I didn't do it.

Haha is this your first full time job? If not I have some sobering news for you.....working sucks. There are no "enjoyable/fun" jobs that pay $150,000/year, especially to 27-30 year old kids. People say that you can make tons of money starting your own business, true but you will work 4 times more than a dentist does. There is tons of pressure in any job that pays a lot of money. Please tell me what you are going to do besides Dentistry that will provide you with "only $150,000/year.

 

[zriceman]

I consider myself a recent graduate and have been in the trenches for a few years. For the most part I agree with the OP's opinion on dentistry. My take on dentistry is divided into two groups: one who graduates with insignificant amount of debt, and one who graduates with significant amount of debt.

The ones with little to no debt will be just fine. The ones with significant amount of debt will have a much tougher road ahead. In order to overcome this financial barrier you will need to produce enough dentistry and this is where things can get difficult. In my opinion you can accomplish this through either working in a rural area and make 300K (most grad can't accept this path, hell even I can't), unethical practice of dentistry (very hard to catch), opening your own practice or practices and beating your existing competition (sounds easy right?), or being ethical and simply work longer hours and more days (all you pre-dents or dental student's dream right?).

As for those saying 150K is alot of money? It may or it may not be depending on your other financial obligations. As someone who graduated with significant about of dental school debt, I have a lifestyle that is equivalent to my friend who is a CPA. Now if I have my own practice, I could potentially earn more, or I could end up earning the same as an associate except now I have the added stress of running a practice. As for the recent graduates saying "it will eventually pay off", I said that myself a few years ago and I am still saying that today.

 

[coralteeth]

I couldn't resist the temptation to add my thoughts and agree with the OP. I used to be so excited to be a dentist when I was a pre-dent, but I've been out long enough to see it's really not worth it. ALL my friends from dental school hate their job!!! We bitch about work on group texts and we bitch about work at our reunion dinners. I was fortunate to attend a Texas dental school, but the debt still sucks. I took out $160K for dental school, and I'm about half way done. However it's not just the debt or income that sucks--it's the dentistry!

Pre dents and even dental students don't really understand what it's really like out there. You can shadow a ton of different dentists but until you're prepping and producing yourself, you have no leg to stand on. Dentists won't tell pre dents about how shady most dental offices are. Shady McShady is the name of every owner dentist.

I feel bad for pre dents because you guys don't see it yet and won't hear about how crappy this job is from anyone in person. I had a 18 year old patient who is a pre dental college student going to Texas A&M and he shadowed me this summer but I didn't have the heart to tell him the truth about it. I put on a smile and said how great it is because you know why? I didn't want to lose my patient or hear from his mom why I wasn't more enthusiastic.

 

[zriceman]

"I put on a smile and said how great it is"

I absolutely agree with this. We dentists wear many hats and must keep our true feelings in check.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying dentistry is the worst job in the world. It is a fine profession, but it requires a lot of hard work and dedication to be successful.

 

[Mrhyde]

I couldn't resist the temptation to add my thoughts and agree with the OP. I used to be so excited to be a dentist when I was a pre-dent, but I've been out long enough to see it's really not worth it. ALL my friends from dental school hate their job!!! We bitch about work on group texts and we bitch about work at our reunion dinners. I was fortunate to attend a Texas dental school, but the debt still sucks. I took out $160K for dental school, and I'm about half way done. However it's not just the debt or income that sucks--it's the dentistry!

Pre dents and even dental students don't really understand what it's really like out there. You can shadow a ton of different dentists but until you're prepping and producing yourself, you have no leg to stand on. Dentists won't tell pre dents about how shady most dental offices are. Shady McShady is the name of every owner dentist.

I feel bad for pre dents because you guys don't see it yet and won't hear about how crappy this job is from anyone in person. I had a 18 year old patient who is a pre dental college student going to Texas A&M and he shadowed me this summer but I didn't have the heart to tell him the truth about it. I put on a smile and said how great it is because you know why? I didn't want to lose my patient or hear from his mom why I wasn't more enthusiastic.

@privatedds ..... and
@coralteeth
and @ anyone else who is a dentist on here that agrees with OP

Lets play a hypothetical game because I am curious about your answers..... Lets say you can go back in time knowing what you know now about Dentistry. Lets say you go back right to the time after you took your DAT but before you apply to any dental school. What new different choices would you make and what would you choose your new path to be ? and why ? I assume not dentistry so then what would it be and please explain why?

 

[privatedds]

Anyways guys, dentistry is a tough profession. Cases you will see in a real life won't be ideal simple cases you see in textbook or dental school setting. Also, your option of treatment is limited by insurance option / pt's ability to pay. So, you will see many heartbreaking situation where a totally save-able tooth requring RCT/crown is being extracted on a 20 y/o kid b/c he can't afford it. Sucks but it happens. Sometimes you can't even do your best on a treatment b/c your boss is telling you to finish RCT in 1 hour or your boss is telling you to do 2nd molar RCT instead of referring them out although you know that you are not proficient in them.

Also, there are a lot of other stresses to deal with. Post-op complications is one thing (pt saying that his face is swollen or in pain and etc) and dealing with staffs is another (even as an associate - because there is always a bitchy / annoying assistant who will tattle to boss saying that "Oh Dr. Smith doesn't do the crown preps the way you do it OR Dr. Smith is too slow" blah blah. "You are not a doctor. So, please STFU and keep suctioning").

Anyways, when you are in dental school, forget about cushy lifestyle you will have once you graduate. A lot of dumb****s in my school leased BMW and Mercedes thinking that they can afford it. Also, lots of dumb****s partied every weekend in D4 thinking that once they become dentist, all money problems will be resolved. NOPE. Not happening. GO TO CHEAP SCHOOL AND SAVE MONEY. Harsh reality waits outside along with Honda Civic / Toyota Corolla / VW Jetta, not premium german cars.

Good luck to all pre-dents.

 

[8_man]

Anyways, when you are in dental school, forget about cushy lifestyle you will have once you graduate. A lot of dumb****s in my school leased BMW and Mercedes thinking that they can afford it. Also, lots of dumb****s partied every weekend in D4 thinking that once they become dentist, all money problems will be resolved. NOPE. Not happening. GO TO CHEAP SCHOOL AND SAVE MONEY. Harsh reality waits outside along with Honda Civic / Toyota Corolla / VW Jetta, not premium german cars.

Good luck to all pre-dents.

I would think that everyone who is accepted to dental school is at least somewhat intelligent but I guess life is full of surprises.

And thanks for the advice, I'll definitely keep my finances in check.

 

[privatedds]

I would think that everyone who is accepted to dental school is at least somewhat intelligent but I guess life is full of surprises.

And thanks for the advice, I'll definitely keep my finances in check.

Back in my days (not a long time ago, class of 2012), there was a handful of ******s. Btw, did dental school become harder to get in compared to 8 yrs ago? Anyone know?

 

[8_man]

Back in my days (not a long time ago, class of 2012), there was a handful of ******s. Btw, did dental school become harder to get in compared to 8 yrs ago? Anyone know?

General consensus is that it's getting harder. The average GPAs and DATs of matriculated students is going up.

 

[doktorinprogres]

And you can pay off student loans with pre-tax dollars.

You got a source on this friend? I've been under the assumption education taken before the start of a business can't be counted as a business expense

 

[privatedds]

Because I don't plan on being an associate for long.

So was I.

And complaining about paying student loans after taxes only reinforces the fact that owning a practice is better. No, you don't need to shell out $500k for a new office. Scott Leune and Jayme Amos are doing start-ups for $200k-250k.

200~250k is a really special case. 500k is the norm unless you want just waiting room, 1 operatory and a bathroom.

Once you're an owner, there is no ceiling on how much money you can make. And you can pay off student loans with pre-tax dollars.

Not true

Dentistry is pretty damn cool. I mean the stuff we get to do is awesome. I love endo, I love digital smile design, I love operative. Getting to work with CAD/CAM, CBCTs, periolase, electrosurge, etc is all incredible to me. If you don't feel the same way, then it's only your fault for going into a field you don't like. And I'm not just talking about OP, but everyone in general that gripes about dentistry on these forums.

This only proves that you are a dental student still wet behind the ears. You don't really get to do Cad/Cam, CBCT, periolase, electrosurge. Prepared to do ****load of fillings, exos and rct.

 

[zriceman]

"Oh Dr. Smith doesn't do the crown preps the way you do it OR Dr. Smith is too slow" blah blah. "You are not a doctor. So, please STFU and keep suctioning").

Bingo, this is why we associates must go into more debt to escape situations like this by having our own office.

 

[zriceman]

I love endo, I love digital smile design, I love operative. Getting to work with CAD/CAM, CBCTs, periolase, electrosurge, etc is all incredible to me. If you don't feel the same way, then it's only your fault for going into a field you don't like.

It's good you are passionate about the above. However, your chance of finding an office that utilizes all that technology on a daily basis is as good as your chance of getting into ortho residency. Bill Dorfman's practice probably have all the tech you have mentioned and uses them on a daily basis. How many bill dorfman type dentists are out there? So, if you feel just as passionate about doing basic dentistry without the fancy tech as you would with CAD/CAM and all that good stuff, then you will have a fine future. If you don't like doing basic fills day in and day out, then your attitude toward dentistry will align more with ours.

Not hating on you, just need to give you a dose of reality.

 

[zriceman]

Back in my days (not a long time ago, class of 2012), there was a handful of ******s. Btw, did dental school become harder to get in compared to 8 yrs ago? Anyone know?

Just as many ******s in D schools today as there were in 2012. No significant change.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Anyways guys, dentistry is a tough profession. Cases you will see in a real life won't be ideal simple cases you see in textbook or dental school setting. Also, your option of treatment is limited by insurance option / pt's ability to pay. So, you will see many heartbreaking situation where a totally save-able tooth requring RCT/crown is being extracted on a 20 y/o kid b/c he can't afford it. Sucks but it happens. Sometimes you can't even do your best on a treatment b/c your boss is telling you to finish RCT in 1 hour or your boss is telling you to do 2nd molar RCT instead of referring them out although you know that you are not proficient in them.

Also, there are a lot of other stresses to deal with. Post-op complications is one thing (pt saying that his face is swollen or in pain and etc) and dealing with staffs is another (even as an associate - because there is always a bitchy / annoying assistant who will tattle to boss saying that "Oh Dr. Smith doesn't do the crown preps the way you do it OR Dr. Smith is too slow" blah blah. "You are not a doctor. So, please STFU and keep suctioning").

Anyways, when you are in dental school, forget about cushy lifestyle you will have once you graduate. A lot of dumb****s in my school leased BMW and Mercedes thinking that they can afford it. Also, lots of dumb****s partied every weekend in D4 thinking that once they become dentist, all money problems will be resolved. NOPE. Not happening. GO TO CHEAP SCHOOL AND SAVE MONEY. Harsh reality waits outside along with Honda Civic / Toyota Corolla / VW Jetta, not premium german cars.

Good luck to all pre-dents.

Who hurt you?

 

[privatedds]

It's good you are passionate about the above. However, your chance of finding an office that utilizes all that technology on a daily basis is as good as your chance of getting into ortho residency. Bill Dorfman's practice probably have all the tech you have mentioned and uses them on a daily basis. How many bill dorfman type dentists are out there? So, if you feel just as passionate about doing basic dentistry without the fancy tech as you would with CAD/CAM and all that good stuff, then you will have a fine future. If you don't like doing basic fills day in and day out, then your attitude toward dentistry will align more with ours.

Not hating on you, just need to give you a dose of reality.

Btw guys, if you think ur dental school instruments suck, think otherwise. Dental school instruments are prolly the fanciest equipment u will see in your career.

What I thought private practice would be like

What it really was like

 

[dentalstudent2021]

plot twist: OP is scared pre-dental applying this year, trying to scare other pre-dentals away...

 

[distressstudent]

Anyways, when you are in dental school, forget about cushy lifestyle you will have once you graduate. A lot of dumb****s in my school leased BMW and Mercedes thinking that they can afford it. Also, lots of dumb****s partied every weekend in D4 thinking that once they become dentist, all money problems will be resolved..

To be fair, many dental students were already independently wealthy anyways. I don't know about specific dental statistics, but medical ones follow pretty close: the vast majority come from families earning over 100k, 43% earning over 150k ,and 33% still earning over 200k, 10% over 400k. The ones driving BMW came to orientation in their BMWs.

I wouldn't say there are too many since many of my classmates are indeed independent rich, but there is a small minority of less fortunate classmates that do try to keep up with the Joneses. And their attitude just makes me cringe. They do indeed think that their money problems will be resolved once they graduate... Without realizing that many of their peers never had money problems to begin with!

At the end of the day though, how many privileged families can still afford 400k CoA in full. The core problem many of the dentist bring up is summarized as "production, production, production" or in other words money problem. Although it's disparaging to say, folks in gated-communities can hardly imagine how money could ever be a problem. But more than anything else, the thing that will limit new graduates is money. And a buttload of money. If you want to practice your ideal form of dentistry and avoid any of the problems these folks brought up, you're going to have to spend way beyond that dental school price tag. That's a tall order for anybody.

 

[blablabla1]

@privatedds ..... and
@coralteeth
and @ anyone else who is a dentist on here that agrees with OP

Lets play a hypothetical game because I am curious about your answers..... Lets say you can go back in time knowing what you know now about Dentistry. Lets say you go back right to the time after you took your DAT but before you apply to any dental school. What new different choices would you make and what would you choose your new path to be ? and why ? I assume not dentistry so then what would it be and please explain why?

Can someone answer this question? I think what everyone is saying on here is valid, but I would like to hear what exactly is the alternative?

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Can someone answer this question? I think what everyone is saying on here is valid, but I would like to hear what exactly is the alternative?

There isnt one haha every single career on the planet has negatives to it and isnt what it once was. Orrrr its a risky career that relies solely on commission. Thats just how the world is now.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Michael_Scott]

"I put on a smile and said how great it is"

I absolutely agree with this. We dentists wear many hats and must keep our true feelings in check.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying dentistry is the worst job in the world. It is a fine profession, but it requires a lot of hard work and dedication to be successful.

Just like many other professions today. ex: nurses have one of the harder jobs in healthcare, not only do they have to manage patients but also listen to doctors, pharmacy, lab etc !..
Dentistry is one of the best professions out there if you know how to balance your finances or risk bankrupcy

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Just like many other professions today. ex: nurses have one of the harder jobs in healthcare, not only do they have to manage patients but also listen to doctors, pharmacy, lab etc !..
Dentistry is one of the best professions out there if you know how to balance your finances or risk bankrupcy

Its true. PAs eventually hate their jobs, MDs usually hate their jobs. Lawyers can't even find a job. Pharmacists hate theirs. Nurses dont like theirs. Sales reps work a ton to make good commission. Realtors work a ton to make good commission. Finance people on wall st work a ton to make good money. No career is sunshine and rainbows. Its simply contributing to society and receiving a compensation equal to the worth of that contribution. It doesnt determine someones happiness. You should pick something you will enjoy, knowing there will be plenty you also dont enjoy. And then make sure to avoid the grass is greener illness. Its deadly and something we've all experienced at one point or another.


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[Michael_Scott]

Its true. PAs eventually hate their jobs, MDs usually hate their jobs. Lawyers can't even find a job. Pharmacists hate theirs. Nurses dont like theirs. Sales reps work a ton to make good commission. Realtors work a ton to make good commission. Finance people on wall st work a ton to make good money. No career is sunshine and rainbows. Its simply contributing to society and receiving a compensation equal to the worth of that contribution. It doesnt determine someones happiness. You should pick something you will enjoy, knowing there will be plenty you also dont enjoy. And then make sure to avoid the grass is greener illness. Its deadly and something we've all experienced at one point or another.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

perfectly put....money is not the answer to everything...heard many billionaires say that their pursuit in the end of the day is not money but various other reasons, money is just the output of their passion and time investment..
most people who are jumping to healthcare professions are doing so due to the $, but as numbers are infinite so is the hunger for more money...

 

[blablabla1]

Its true. PAs eventually hate their jobs, MDs usually hate their jobs. Lawyers can't even find a job. Pharmacists hate theirs. Nurses dont like theirs. Sales reps work a ton to make good commission. Realtors work a ton to make good commission. Finance people on wall st work a ton to make good money. No career is sunshine and rainbows. Its simply contributing to society and receiving a compensation equal to the worth of that contribution. It doesnt determine someones happiness. You should pick something you will enjoy, knowing there will be plenty you also dont enjoy. And then make sure to avoid the grass is greener illness. Its deadly and something we've all experienced at one point or another.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Your insights have been super helpful for me. Thank you!

 

[nextgendental]

@privatedds just out of curiosity what state do you practice in ?


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[Screwtape]

Btw guys, if you think ur dental school instruments suck, think otherwise. Dental school instruments are prolly the fanciest equipment u will see in your career.

What I thought private practice would be like

What it really was like

You are making some sweeping generalizations on here. It seems to me that your job isn't worth it. Period. Not dentistry as a whole. A lot of associateships suck, it's hard to find the right one. Only another reason to transition into ownership sooner rather than later. Best of luck out there.

 

[privatedds]

@privatedds just out of curiosity what state do you practice in ?


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Tristate

 

[distressstudent]

Its true. PAs eventually hate their jobs, MDs usually hate their jobs. Lawyers can't even find a job. Pharmacists hate theirs. Nurses dont like theirs. Sales reps work a ton to make good commission. Realtors work a ton to make good commission. Finance people on wall st work a ton to make good money. No career is sunshine and rainbows. Its simply contributing to society and receiving a compensation equal to the worth of that contribution. It doesnt determine someones happiness. You should pick something you will enjoy, knowing there will be plenty you also dont enjoy. And then make sure to avoid the grass is greener illness. Its deadly and something we've all experienced at one point or another.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Software engineering is in fact all sunshine and rainbows right now

If CS is too boring for you, there's always other kind of engineering like electric, chemical, bio, etc.

There's plenty of careers that don't require 4 year of advance education and 400k indebtedness. If you're going to look at fields that are doing poorly right now and say "well no job is perfect" then you're going to close a lot of doors by not exploring other options

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Software engineering is in fact all sunshine and rainbows right now

If CS is too boring for you, there's always other kind of engineering like electric, chemical, bio, etc.

There's plenty of careers that don't require 4 year of advance education and 400k indebtedness. If you're going to look at fields that are doing poorly right now and say "well no job is perfect" then you're going to close a lot of doors by not exploring other options

Thats not true at all. Software engineers talk about how they're always having to work long hours to compete. A lot are needing doctoral degress now too. Its becoming competitive so even if you dont get a doctoral you will always be self learning to stay ahead. Electrical engineering hasnt had job growth due to outsourcing the jobs over seas. Biomedical and chemical engineers work tons of hours as well and dont have a ton of job openings. Its complete false to state that some careers have zero negatives to them.. Every single one has them.


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[ncide]

There's a thread in the pharmacy section warning people to not go into pharmacy. There's a same thread in medicine, optometry, and audiology. This section has several for dentistry too.

 

[frozenicecreamDMD]

There's a thread in the pharmacy section warning people to not go into pharmacy. There's a same thread in medicine, optometry, and audiology. This section has several for dentistry too.

well its true that you should not go into pharmacy. the field sucks but the thing they say is that there is less and less jobs. this means you may end up being unemployed with >100k debt.

this is far different than I have a job but I just hate this job because I make 150k but I just hate it.

 

[doc toothache]

Back in my days (not a long time ago, class of 2012), there was a handful of ******s. Btw, did dental school become harder to get in compared to 8 yrs ago? Anyone know?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2008-2013-ds-statistics-at-a-glance.1137021/

General consensus is that it's getting harder. The average GPAs and DATs of matriculated students is going up.

No reason to bother with statistical evidence when we can rely on the "general consensus".

 

[8_man]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2008-2013-ds-statistics-at-a-glance.1137021/

No reason to bother with statistical evidence when we can rely on the "general consensus".

Note taken. But with any opinion, it's nice to give some basis to it.

 

[coralteeth]

@privatedds ..... and
@coralteeth
and @ anyone else who is a dentist on here that agrees with OP

Lets play a hypothetical game because I am curious about your answers..... Lets say you can go back in time knowing what you know now about Dentistry. Lets say you go back right to the time after you took your DAT but before you apply to any dental school. What new different choices would you make and what would you choose your new path to be ? and why ? I assume not dentistry so then what would it be and please explain why?

Knowing what I know now about the career of dentistry, I would have gone medical and specialize in path, rads, or anesthesia. I have a lot of family members and friends who are real doctors and they are a lot happier because they make more money for the hours they put in. Or I would have specialized in pedo because they make tons more money for the type of work they do. The money is good but not great in general dentistry. If you are an astute business person, you can be very wealthy especially with multiple offices because you hire associates to do all the dentistry and you take your cut as the boss without breaking your back. However, just because you own an office does not mean you will make more than if you are associating. My old coworker used to own 3 offices in the DFW and went back to corporate dentistry and made more money working for someone else. Another coworker of mine works prn at my office because his own office is not busy enough even after three years of opening it. He told me I made more money than him even though I am an associate with less experience than him. He is super talented and fast, too. Not every one is cut out to be a business owner. And owning isn't that great unless you really know how to manage people and office dynamics.

Go take a gander at dentaltown.com if you want to know the nitty gritty of dentistry. You'll see more dentists post on there. Also do try to go to the cheapest dental school you get accepted to. I was extremely fortunate to attend the cheapest dental school in Texas but I interviewed at schools like USC, and I really don't know how those grads do it. Monster $500K debt is debilitating for your entire future. Do not be short sighted and go to those half million debtal schools. You will rue the day you matriculated into that school once you realize you cannot afford your loan payments. I refinanced my loans via Sofi, still drive my beater 12 year old Honda, live at home, and I'm still telling you guys to be smart about money. I have met more broke a$$ dentists than I have met rich ones. No one feels sorry for us. Once taxpayers realize PAYE and IBR student loans are being forgiven to "rich doctors and dentists" it will be cut. At least real doctors can add their residency and fellowship years to the PSLF. That program is more fail safe.

Also, for the pre dents and dental students who think that the dentists on this forum who tell you the unvarnished truth about this career are unsuccessful, bitter, or just are fake dentists trying to take your spot, you are deluded. Sure, take this internet advice with a grain of salt, but please crunch the numbers. $500k debt for an income of maybe $120-$200k doesn't make financial sense. Dentistry isn't wonderful...it kinda sucks. Actually, it really sucks.

 

[zriceman]

I would have gone medical

I agree with everything you said except this. I wouldn't consider medical schools either. Training is long and costly and insurance companies cutting their reimbursements. I would have chosen a career that is both personally and financially satisfying with a 4 year college degree.

 

[coralteeth]

I agree with everything you said except this. I wouldn't consider medical schools either. Training is long and costly and insurance companies cutting their reimbursements. I would have chosen a career that is both personally and financially satisfying with a 4 year college degree.

The out of state dentists I meet still say Texas is a better market than from where they came, but it's saturated now. Multiple dental offices in every corner in the big cities and south Texas but not enough population to support it. The real winners are the dental supply vendors. I think the corporate and non corporate offices are cannibalizing each other. Lower fees, less patients, no money. My friends in corporate offices are not busy enough to justify their base pay. These dentists are living paycheck to paycheck! It's just not sustainable. The Texas gravy train is going to run dry

Medical training is hard but so is dental. Medical: more work, more studying, more satisfying, more years to sacrifice but more money and less face time with patients. That's why I would choose path, rads, or anesthesia. Less patient interaction would be so wonderful. If I was a good business owner, I would open fast food franchises, nail salons, boba shops, or gas stations.

 

[privatedds]

Or I would have specialized in pedo because they make tons more money for the type of work they do. The money is good but not great in general dentistry.

AFAIK Pedo is kinda annoying. Dealing with wild kids everyday is mentally very stressful. Honestly best specialty is OS (for the money of course / although os fanboys will come and say "I love surgery so much that I would do it even if I get paid at McDonalds rate" Fake ass BS)

or

Ortho (for best lifestyle if you can afford it or go to paying program). Do you know the best thing about ortho? You get to wear bow tie in every day setting and only look half ******ed. If other specialists did that, they would look completely ******ed.

 

[321931]

I have posted a few times about this topic. I'm not gonna really go into it again, read my post history if you want to know more.

I have never met a dentist that graduated with enormous amount debt and they are "happy/content" with their choice. Never.

After a few years out, the ones that were "happy" about being a dentist, become so jaded, frustrated, worried, when they have to raise a family, buy a house, buy a practice with 500k loans. It's a different beast all together.
These are simply my opinions.

 

[8_man]

I have posted a few times about this topic. I'm not gonna really go into it again, read my post history if you want to know more.

This is type of dentists that I see now-a-days and I have worked and networked with quite a few.

1) Old school dentists that are established, making a great living, and like their job. (Uncommon)

2) Old school dentists that work 3-4 days, make a "decent" living, live below their means, and have a comfortable life. (Common)

3) Old school dentists that maybe have a divorce or two, can't retire because of divorce/savings, at the age of 60 and still working, but its more of their personal problems rather then their business/dentistry decisions. (Rare)

4) Young Dentists with all their loans paid off by rich parents, and driving a new car and living a good social life. (Uncommon/Rare)

5) Young Dentists with an average amount of debt- state school- some parents help, and they are "comfortable", they don't splurge, and they save for their future. (Uncommon)

6) Young Dentists with 500k debt, jaded, and hate their choice. (Common)

I have never met a dentist that graduated with 500k debt and they are "happy/content" with their choice. Never.

I fall into the catagory of #5. Where will you fall?

Probably gonna be a #5. I would have never considered a career in dentistry if I knew for a fact I'd be taking a $500,000 loan (that's pushing $40k interest, lol...). Fortunately, my parents are willing to cover a majority of the expenses so I'm looking at around $100k debt. Still scary, but manageable.

 

[321931]

Probably gonna be a #5. I would have never considered a career in dentistry if I knew for a fact I'd be taking a $500,000 loan (that's pushing $40k interest, lol...). Fortunately, my parents are willing to cover a majority of the expenses so I'm looking at around $100k debt. Still scary, but manageable.

You are fortunate and you will be fine. I graduated with 200k and have 75% of it paid off. I live a very comfortable life, and plan on ownership in the near future. Go for it!