Dental Life Style

[Pineapple13579]

Hi,

I am thinking about dentistry, but I would like to know more about this industry. I have shadowed several general dentists and dental specialists, but I would like to know more.

1. Do dentists have health insurance themselves? (They don't have dental coverage themselves? If they really want health insurance, do they buy it themselves?)
2. Is paying back student loans hard? Many dental schools in North America are expensive.
3. Dental Associate VS Owning your own business. I mean, as a dental associate, you don't need to worry about the costs of the equipments and instruments, and hiring other people. I understand that dental associates make less. But eventually almost all dental associates will own their own businesses? Why?

Thanx!

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[TanMan]

Hi,

I am thinking about dentistry, but I would like to know more about this industry. I have shadowed several general dentists and dental specialists, but I would like to know more.

1. Do dentists have health insurance themselves? (They don't have dental coverage themselves? If they really want health insurance, do they buy it themselves?)
2. Is paying back student loans hard? Many dental schools in North America are expensive.
3. Dental Associate VS Owning your own business. I mean, as a dental associate, you don't need to worry about the costs of the equipments and instruments, and hiring other people. I understand that dental associates make less. But eventually almost all dental associates will own their own businesses? Why?

Thanx!

1. Health insurance is relatively cheap at the dentist income level. Don't worry about getting it for yourself and your family.
2. Not hard. Once the ball got rolling with practice ownership, it was over within a year.
3. Money. Money as an owner is way way more than as an associate. Significantly more.

 

[Pineapple13579]

TanMan, thanx for the reply!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is paying back student loans hard?

I read in some publication the average time to pay them off for dentists is 17 years.

Big Hoss

 

[2TH MVR]

Hi,

I am thinking about dentistry, but I would like to know more about this industry. I have shadowed several general dentists and dental specialists, but I would like to know more.

1. Do dentists have health insurance themselves? (They don't have dental coverage themselves? If they really want health insurance, do they buy it themselves?)
2. Is paying back student loans hard? Many dental schools in North America are expensive.
3. Dental Associate VS Owning your own business. I mean, as a dental associate, you don't need to worry about the costs of the equipments and instruments, and hiring other people. I understand that dental associates make less. But eventually almost all dental associates will own their own businesses? Why?

Thanx!

1. If you work as an employee for a DSO... your employer will typically pay a portion of your health insurance. It is CHEAP since the DSO is comparatively a much larger entity than any private dental practice. Most health policies are group policies. From years in private practice ..... I can tell you that health insurance for myself and my staff INCREASED EVERY YEAR. I has a small group compared to a large DSO. My private practice premiums were 5-6 times more expensive than m ty current policy at the DSO I work at. But ... if you are a C Corp in private practice (unless this has been changed) .... you can deduct the entire health premium for yourself and your staff.

2. Been mentioned here many times. Paying back student loans starts with not going to an expensive DS in the 1st place. Unfortunately .... not everyone can attend these cheaper schools or get scholarships, military, etc.

3. People go into dentistry for autonomy. The chance to own your own practice. You would be better off in medicine if your goals are to be an employee the rest of your life. As a young dentist ... your goal should be practice ownership. As you reach the back nine of your life (me) .... and after many yrs of private practice .... I can tell you the hassles of running a dental practice quickly become a time consuming burden. So working as an employee at a DSO is an option later in life.

 

[TanMan]

I read in some publication the average time to pay them off for dentists is 17 years.

Big Hoss

Is that by choice due to low interest rates/lifestyle or economic situation of dentists?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Is that by choice due to low interest rates/lifestyle or economic situation of dentists?

Not everyone can be a TanMan.

Big Hoss

 

[TanMan]

Not everyone can be a TanMan.

Big Hoss

It's a legit question. If it was free money (near 0% interest loan), probably have almost no incentive to pay it off... or if it was other factors besides inability to pay it off, then the length of time to payoff may not necessarily be an indicator of how hard it is to payoff the loan.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

It's a legit question. If it was free money (near 0% interest loan), probably have almost no incentive to pay it off... or if it was other factors besides inability to pay it off, then the length of time to payoff may not necessarily be an indicator of how hard it is to payoff the loan.

If you’re only an average producer, it probably is more the difficulty of paying it off. Especially as practice ownership continues its drastic decline.

Big Hoss

 

[TanMan]

If you’re only an average producer, it probably is more the difficulty of paying it off. Especially as practice ownership continues its drastic decline.

Big Hoss

When you say drastic decline, do you mean less dentists are owning, or practice productivity is on the decline? I suppose if you're stuck as an associate with low production/low patient census, then it would definitely be harder to payoff the student loans.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

When you say drastic decline, do you mean less dentists are owning, or practice productivity is on the decline? I suppose if you're stuck as an associate with low production/low patient census, then it would definitely be harder to payoff the student loans.

Fewer and fewer dentists are becoming owners. And as you know, that’s where the money is at.

https://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science%20and%20Research/HPI/Files/HPIgraphic_0418_2.pdf?la=en

Big Hoss

 

[TanMan]

Fewer and fewer dentists are becoming owners. And as you know, that’s where the money is at.

https://www.ada.org/~/media/ADA/Science%20and%20Research/HPI/Files/HPIgraphic_0418_2.pdf?la=en

Big Hoss

That's terrible news. I wonder why less dentists are looking to ownership. The path to money is with ownership.

 

[Pineapple13579]

1. If you work as an employee for a DSO... your employer will typically pay a portion of your health insurance. It is CHEAP since the DSO is comparatively a much larger entity than any private dental practice. Most health policies are group policies. From years in private practice ..... I can tell you that health insurance for myself and my staff INCREASED EVERY YEAR. I has a small group compared to a large DSO. My private practice premiums were 5-6 times more expensive than m ty current policy at the DSO I work at. But ... if you are a C Corp in private practice (unless this has been changed) .... you can deduct the entire health premium for yourself and your staff.

2. Been mentioned here many times. Paying back student loans starts with not going to an expensive DS in the 1st place. Unfortunately .... not everyone can attend these cheaper schools or get scholarships, military, etc.

3. People go into dentistry for autonomy. The chance to own your own practice. You would be better off in medicine if your goals are to be an employee the rest of your life. As a young dentist ... your goal should be practice ownership. As you reach the back nine of your life (me) .... and after many yrs of private practice .... I can tell you the hassles of running a dental practice quickly become a time consuming burden. So working as an employee at a DSO is an option later in life.

What's DSO?

 

[2TH MVR]

What's DSO?

Dental Service Organization. I tend to categorize ALL corporate dental practices into a single term. DSO.

That's terrible news. I wonder why less dentists are looking to ownership. The path to money is with ownership.

You act surprised? Obviously Corporate Retail Dentistry along with E-Commerce along with the ridiculous DS debt. Mom and Pop private business entities (including dentistry) are fighting an increasingly more difficult economic battle with the giant Corp entities. The days of finding a nice location. Opening a new dental practice with your name on the door and watching the patients line up to see you is .... well .... not easy. I cannot imagine a new dentist with 400-500K of DS debt. Practice debt on top of that. Then when everything seems to be working well ...... an Aspen Dental opens near you or worse .... a Heartland Dental practice (they appear and operate like a private practice. Most patients do not know the difference). I've seen PLENTY of new dentists (and older dentists) in private practice struggle. Simply owning your practice is no guarantee of success. But I agree that a private practice gives the best chance of getting ahead. IN THE RIGHT LOCATION.

Patients and consumers want convenience. Think Amazon. Yesterday I accompanied my wife to CVS to get a prescription. She wanted to get her blood pressure checked. The blood pressure machine usually available was removed due to covid. Inside CVS is a "Minute Clinic". This was a SUNDAY. She saw a tech or maybe he was the Dr. on call and asked if he could take her BP. He did. No paperwork. No issues. No fees. He was very kind. Convenience.

Obviously .... Dr. TanMan is the shining light for all those new dentists wanting to have their own practice. It is healthy for predents, new dentists to see the success you have made for yourself instead of the negative posts. You are in an envious situation where you get to work on improving the efficiencies of your practice to increase productivity. Your strategy seems to hinge on an unlimited supply of new patients. So marketing and location are in play.

 

[Middle Age DDS]

I love that Dr Tan Man writes about how awesome he is doing and that it is possible. He isn't wrong. But 2th mover is bringing up the reality of the future. Massive student loans, low insurance reimbursement, corporate dentistry, and more dentists in the workplace(thanks tor proprietary dental schools) will continue to make dentistry more challenging in the future. This isn't doom and gloom, just the facts.

To not bring up the stark reality of the future is disingenuous at best.

The positive is there will always be a place in this world for a caring health care worker or dentist. I won't say provider........that is terrible too.

 

[TanMan]

Dental Service Organization. I tend to categorize ALL corporate dental practices into a single term. DSO.



You act surprised? Obviously Corporate Retail Dentistry along with E-Commerce along with the ridiculous DS debt. Mom and Pop private business entities (including dentistry) are fighting an increasingly more difficult economic battle with the giant Corp entities. The days of finding a nice location. Opening a new dental practice with your name on the door and watching the patients line up to see you is .... well .... not easy. I cannot imagine a new dentist with 400-500K of DS debt. Practice debt on top of that. Then when everything seems to be working well ...... an Aspen Dental opens near you or worse .... a Heartland Dental practice (they appear and operate like a private practice. Most patients do not know the difference). I've seen PLENTY of new dentists (and older dentists) in private practice struggle. Simply owning your practice is no guarantee of success. But I agree that a private practice gives the best chance of getting ahead. IN THE RIGHT LOCATION.

Patients and consumers want convenience. Think Amazon. Yesterday I accompanied my wife to CVS to get a prescription. She wanted to get her blood pressure checked. The blood pressure machine usually available was removed due to covid. Inside CVS is a "Minute Clinic". This was a SUNDAY. She saw a tech or maybe he was the Dr. on call and asked if he could take her BP. He did. No paperwork. No issues. No fees. He was very kind. Convenience.

Obviously .... Dr. TanMan is the shining light for all those new dentists wanting to have their own practice. It is healthy for predents, new dentists to see the success you have made for yourself instead of the negative posts. You are in an envious situation where you get to work on improving the efficiencies of your practice to increase productivity. Your strategy seems to hinge on an unlimited supply of new patients. So marketing and location are in play.

Most of my colleagues have ended up going into ownership eventually. I don't think that the alluded reasons to why private practice ownership is on the decline is cut and dry either. It is simple to say that it is because the barriers of entry have gone up or the competitiveness of the marketplace has either driven people out of private practice/prevented people from going into ownership. There's many more factors such as generational preferences of entrepreneurship v. employment, supply of money/liquidity for practice acquisitions and startups, more recently, covid fears from older dentists, etc...

The truth is somewhere in the middle based on the aforementioned potential factors. We can only infer based on the surveys, but these surveys/polls don't necessarily reflect the truth/reality of the situation either. Edit: The big question is why ownership is dropping.

I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[Dota 2 Player]

TanMan the beacon of hope.

In the end I figure I (and likely other pre-dents) should apply with the idea that I might end up working for a corp after school as a "worst case scenario" for those of us interested in private practice. If that scenario ends up coming true it still sounds like a decent life so might as well shoot for the dream ownership scenario.

 

[Dota 2 Player]

... assuming I don't go somewhere where I get 500K+ dollars in debt. I have a finite number of years living as a college student left in me.

 

[HabituallyPlacid]

Most of my colleagues have ended up going into ownership eventually. I don't think that the alluded reasons to why private practice ownership is on the decline is cut and dry either. It is simple to say that it is because the barriers of entry have gone up or the competitiveness of the marketplace has either driven people out of private practice/prevented people from going into ownership. There's many more factors such as generational preferences of entrepreneurship v. employment, supply of money/liquidity for practice acquisitions and startups, more recently, covid fears from older dentists, etc...

The truth is somewhere in the middle based on the aforementioned potential factors. We can only infer based on the surveys, but these surveys/polls don't necessarily reflect the truth/reality of the situation either. Edit: The big question is why ownership is dropping.

I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be.

Would you mind if I opened up a practice less than twenty miles away from yours in about say... five years time?

 

[TanMan]

Would you mind if I opened up a practice less than twenty miles away from yours in about say... five years time?

Even 3-5 miles is fine. We've had quite a bunch of new startups and chains come nearby and it hasn't hurt us (yet).

 

[HabituallyPlacid]

Even 3-5 miles is fine. We've had quite a bunch of new startups and chains come nearby and it hasn't hurt us (yet).

Your practice must be A+ quality or there’s a large potential client base where you practice—maybe both.

 

[2TH MVR]

Your practice must be A+ quality or there’s a large potential client base where you practice—maybe both.

Do patients really know what A+ quality is? They just want it to be painless and see a confident, experienced Dr.

Oh. And the other thing ... patients want to know if their insurance covers the procedure.

 

[TanMan]

Your practice must be A+ quality or there’s a large potential client base where you practice—maybe both.

Probably the marketing machine.

Do patients really know what A+ quality is? They just want it to be painless and see a confident, experienced Dr.

Oh. And the other thing ... patients want to know if their insurance covers the procedure.

They don't... and that's the power of marketing. Product/service differentiation from the rest of the marketplace. Otherwise, you're just another dentist_00x in your region.