[decision made]
Last edited:
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
[decision made]
- Thread starter hatuey
- Start date
I think research fit is SO important for your MD-PhD & is what drove my lists in the first place. Like this is the reason why MD admissions is diff to md/phd. If the leading PI in your field is at Penn, IMO that's what will shape and drive the rest of your career. Your scientific 'family' is more important than anything else as that will influence your papers, grants, future direction/lab, etc. If you think you can do your PhD in their lab, you should go for it.
Feel free to DM me privately - I have a friend in the Penn MSTP program who had a very similar situation (and same choice dillema actually lol) going in with having an awesome lab fit, and as a result she was able to start her PhD work much earlier, and is slated to defend with only 3 years of the PhD and because she hit the ground running also got some of the most prestigous grad awards/grants which is such a huge thing if you want to become an investigator.
You'll also be spending 7-8 years there and Penn's area is still very chill, with still having a lot more to do than New Haven which will def get old after a while, as well as easier more direct flight/travel to West Coast. It's also very close to so much nature right in the city (wissahickon valley park, fairmont park, and just as close as new haven if not better to hikes, national parks, and state forests) so I wouldn't count Philly out in that aspect.
Curriculum wise, although the Yale system is awesome, I'm not sure if that a few extra requirements is more important than having your prime pick over the top MSTP in the country, location, and research fit especially since that will be training you and helping you retain more longer as you take the break from med school in your PhD (which imo is also why the MSTP is so well regarded & has better outcomes - there is also an oddly high amount of YSM MSTP students doing 9+ years if you look on their website). Lastly, I know a few MSTP students at YSM and also the buddy from my interview day and I discussed, but on the contrary, there isn't as much unified-ness as a direct result con of the Yale System. I think this is definitely something that may vary but just a note to think about since you listed it!
Additionally, Penn is a much more diverse city (in all aspects of the word - which is very important IMO for research, medicine, and personal life) and with so many more hospitals, you're clinical training is going to be much better which is one of the biggest cons I hear about Yale.
Overall you can't go wrong, but I think that's why Penn is the safer choice - good luck and congrats!!!
Feel free to DM me privately - I have a friend in the Penn MSTP program who had a very similar situation (and same choice dillema actually lol) going in with having an awesome lab fit, and as a result she was able to start her PhD work much earlier, and is slated to defend with only 3 years of the PhD and because she hit the ground running also got some of the most prestigous grad awards/grants which is such a huge thing if you want to become an investigator.
You'll also be spending 7-8 years there and Penn's area is still very chill, with still having a lot more to do than New Haven which will def get old after a while, as well as easier more direct flight/travel to West Coast. It's also very close to so much nature right in the city (wissahickon valley park, fairmont park, and just as close as new haven if not better to hikes, national parks, and state forests) so I wouldn't count Philly out in that aspect.
Curriculum wise, although the Yale system is awesome, I'm not sure if that a few extra requirements is more important than having your prime pick over the top MSTP in the country, location, and research fit especially since that will be training you and helping you retain more longer as you take the break from med school in your PhD (which imo is also why the MSTP is so well regarded & has better outcomes - there is also an oddly high amount of YSM MSTP students doing 9+ years if you look on their website). Lastly, I know a few MSTP students at YSM and also the buddy from my interview day and I discussed, but on the contrary, there isn't as much unified-ness as a direct result con of the Yale System. I think this is definitely something that may vary but just a note to think about since you listed it!
Additionally, Penn is a much more diverse city (in all aspects of the word - which is very important IMO for research, medicine, and personal life) and with so many more hospitals, you're clinical training is going to be much better which is one of the biggest cons I hear about Yale.
Overall you can't go wrong, but I think that's why Penn is the safer choice - good luck and congrats!!!
Last edited:
Fully agree with liketb12. That first pro for Penn blows everything else out of the water. Already connecting with the leading PI in your field of interest is setting you on the perfect path of becoming a leading future physician scientist in your field of interest.
theridgespamms
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2023
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 11
agree with the other two - this was how I also made my ultimate decision, connecting w a/the leading PI in your field is setting yourself up for success for WAY down the line as well (or at least that's what I perceive and other faculty have told me)
also small cons for yale that I considered (I was accepted there as well) -
also small cons for yale that I considered (I was accepted there as well) -
- they are unbelievably hands-off - generally, this is a good thing but for Yale, it felt like way too much
- that hands-off nature resulted in (from what I know) is one of the highest time to graduation averages (met more than 1 student in a year higher than 9)
- they don't actively pull you back from the PhD years (from what I heard)
- New Haven isn't a super safe place overall (and is unusually expensive)
- IMO ranking doesn't matter at all but more than that Penn has an unbelievable track record for physician-scientists
- the hands-off no exams and stuff is really great but you have to be super intrinsically motivated for that as well - at the end of the day you don't want to cram for Step 1/2CK
Piling on to agree with the previous comments: UPenn is a no brainer imo purely based on the research fit. Standard advice I've gotten when deciding between MSTP programs is that research fit is king. It sounds like you'll be able to hit the ground running at UPenn and have a very productive PhD, setting yourself up well for future endeavors.
Also to your point about stressed students at UPenn - I cannot say what exactly contributes specifically at that school, but it is my understanding that while clerkship grading and classwork is still stressful, a lot of the stressors on MD-only classmates are generally less intense/relevant for MSTP students.
Also to your point about stressed students at UPenn - I cannot say what exactly contributes specifically at that school, but it is my understanding that while clerkship grading and classwork is still stressful, a lot of the stressors on MD-only classmates are generally less intense/relevant for MSTP students.
The only other school that I can think of that has the same track record of producing a plethora outstanding physician-scientist as Penn would be WashU. The MD-PhD environments at these two institutions are incredible and provide a really great platform for the rest of your training.
All things considered, Yale is a solid MSTP and you should seriously consider it. considering research fit is better at Penn, and the cons about Penn are not anything red flag worthy, I think the choice is clear.
All things considered, Yale is a solid MSTP and you should seriously consider it. considering research fit is better at Penn, and the cons about Penn are not anything red flag worthy, I think the choice is clear.
