Deciding between PsyD programs... help!

[Mr.GarlicBread]

Hi All! I have gotten into a few PsyD programs and I am looking for some outsider perspectives. I already have a MA and am going to have to move no matter what program I go to. Here are the programs I have narrowed it down to:

1. Pepperdine (tuition grant received which makes it much more doable and the program is 3 years plus internship)
2. PCOM (received a scholarship)
3. Mercer
4. Appalachian State University (a new program in the process of being accredited, funded assistantship provided)
5. PGSP Stanford Consortium (waitlisted)

Any thoughts or advice would be helpful! My coworkers and mentor all vote for Pepperdine. Thanks in advance for any help

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[R. Matey]

Amongst unfunded or partially funded Psy.D. programs, thrift should be the sole deciding factor.

 

[psych.meout]

Amongst unfunded or partially funded Psy.D. programs, thrift should be the sole deciding factor.

Yes, though I'd also be a bit skeptical about getting quality training and being competitive finishing on-campus in 3 years.

 

[futureapppsy2]

How close is App. State to accreditation? If reasonably close, they sound like the best option, IMO.

 

[R. Matey]

Yes, though I'd also be a bit skeptical about getting quality training and being competitive finishing on-campus in 3 years.

I read that as advanced standing due to the OP’s master’s degree, which I assume was counseling, but maybe I’m wrong. I know APA accredits four year programs, but agree that sounds quite shifty.

 

[psych.meout]

I read that as advanced standing due to the OP’s master’s degree, which I assume was counseling, but maybe I’m wrong. I know APA accredits four year programs, but agree that sounds quite shifty.

All the programs I applied to would only exempt students with terminal master's degree from a few courses and doing another thesis. Definitely not enough to knock even just one year off.

 

[Mr.GarlicBread]

All the programs I applied to would only exempt students with terminal master's degree from a few courses and doing another thesis. Definitely not enough to knock even just one year off.

Yeah it is because you needed a MA to apply to Pepperdine but I understand the concern.

 

[Mr.GarlicBread]

How close is App. State to accreditation? If reasonably close, they sound like the best option, IMO.

During my interview, they said they are starting the process this year because they are a new program. I know they would then move to being accredited on contingency. This just freaks me out a little given the possibility of them not gaining accreditation. I would be afraid of what that could mean for internship.

 

[summerbabe]

Pepperdine (tuition grant received which makes it much more doable and the program is 3 years plus internship)

According to APA, the mean number of years enrolled for Pepperdine grads is 5.1 years, which suggests the average student is on campus for 4 years and then does a 1 year internship so I would treat this as a 4+1, rather than a 3+1 program as you weigh this decision.

I don't have any direct info about Pepperdine but of their 281 grads in the past decade of reported data, only 75% ever became licensed, which seems pretty low. My PhD program is at 94% for that same reporting period, albeit with a lot less graduates.

 

[futureapppsy2]

During my interview, they said they are starting the process this year because they are a new program. I know they would then move to being accredited on contingency. This just freaks me out a little given the possibility of them not gaining accreditation. I would be afraid of what that could mean for internship.

Honestly, the odds of a funded, small university-based program not getting accredited is quite low, though, of course, not zero.

 

[Mr.GarlicBread]

Yes, though I'd also be a bit skeptical about getting quality training and being competitive finishing on-campus in 3 years.

So here are more in-depth thoughts about Pepperdine vs App State (the two I feel like I am deciding between).

Pepperdine - Pros: APA accredited, well-connected practicum network (some UCLA sites, lots of anxiety/OCD focused sites that align with my clinical interests), 3 years of classes/practicum then internship (possibly a pro and a con), professors/network (Dr. Bryant at Pepperdine is the incoming APA president, option to do a research emphasis. Cons: expensive even with my tuition grant (I am poor), living in LA is expensive and probably not very fun

App State: Pros: $23,000 assistantship working in an ADHD-focused lab (my interest is in OCD and related disorders not ADHD, but very similar to a PhD setup), cheap housing in western North Carolina, closer to family (also a con lol). Cons: Not APA accredited, very few practicum sites (no OCD/anxiety focused sites), I have to do ADHD research, I cannot transfer in credits and will redo my MA thesis, a girl dropped out last year because of the PI I would be working under (everyone kind of says he is a dingus but who knows)

 

[Mr.GarlicBread]

According to APA, the mean number of years enrolled for Pepperdine grads is 5.1 years, which suggests the average student is on campus for 4 years and then does a 1 year internship so I would treat this as a 4+1, rather than a 3+1 program as you weigh this decision.

I don't have any direct info about Pepperdine but of their 281 grads in the past decade of reported data, only 75% ever became licensed, which seems pretty low. My PhD program is at 94% for that same reporting period, albeit with a lot less graduates.

Totally - I think during the interview they addressed this issue saying folks are in careers where they need not be licensed but this is something I took note of as well. I do not want to go to a school that just hands out diplomas like Oprah hands out cars.

 

[R. Matey]

All the programs I applied to would only exempt students with terminal master's degree from a few courses and doing another thesis. Definitely not enough to knock even just one year off.

More common in counseling than clinical.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

girl dropped out last year because of the PI I would be working under (everyone kind of says he is a dingus but who knows)

As a person who went to grad school to work with a professor who turned out to have severe psychopathology and a history of discipline for mistreating students, I urge you to look into this piece of information more. I did not know what I was getting into because students were pressured to keep quiet about this professor’s history. The fact you have learned this is a gift. Look into it thoroughly and don’t underestimate how much having a bad mentor can harm your professionally and personally.

Good luck to you.

 

[psych.meout]

As a person who went to grad school to work with a professor who turned out to have severe psychopathology and a history of discipline for mistreating students, I urge you to look into this piece of information more. I did not know what I was getting into because students were pressured to keep quiet about this professor’s history. The fact you have learned this is a gift. Look into it thoroughly and don’t underestimate how much having a bad mentor can harm your professionally and personally.

Good luck to you.

Yeah, talk about burying the lead.

 

[Mr.GarlicBread]

As a person who went to grad school to work with a professor who turned out to have severe psychopathology and a history of discipline for mistreating students, I urge you to look into this piece of information more. I did not know what I was getting into because students were pressured to keep quiet about this professor’s history. The fact you have learned this is a gift. Look into it thoroughly and don’t underestimate how much having a bad mentor can harm your professionally and personally.

Good luck to you.

I agree and am so sorry to hear you had that experience. I had the chance to talk with current students who said he is “prickly” but well intentioned and teaches the hardest classes. Apparently the girl could not handle it.

 

[psych.meout]

I agree and am so sorry to hear you had that experience. I had the chance to talk with current students who said he is “prickly” but well intentioned and teaches the hardest classes. Apparently the girl could not handle it.

Again, you need more information about what actually happened, not just survivor bias.

 

[summerbabe]

they addressed this issue saying folks are in careers where they need not be licensed but this is something I took note of as well.

There will always be a handful of people who finish a doctorate and decide not to practice such as changing careers or starting families.

The only things that you truly don’t need a license would be research/stats (probably not the modal outcome for a clinically oriented PsyD), teaching (although you would need a license if it involves clinical supervision) or something else generic (think consulting or wellness work). I’m sure I’m missing some work options that don’t require licensure but regardless, 1 in 4 is a red flag.

A bigger question is of the 25% who do not get licensed, how many attempted but were unable, such as not passing the EPPP exam or taking an unaccredited internship. Only 80% Pepperdine grads passed on their first EPPP attempt during the last reporting period, which is not ideal. For comparison, Palo Alto’s PsyD had a 100% pass rate during that same period.

 

[foreverbull]

Yes, though I'd also be a bit skeptical about getting quality training and being competitive finishing on-campus in 3 years.

I’m surprised that people would get enough direct hours to be competitive for internship after just 2.25 years of practicum at most, assuming practicum starts the very first semester (you apply for internship just a few months in to your 3rd year in that case). How do folks get enough hours to get interviews? Are practica over 20 hours per week and/or go through summer?

OP, keep in mind that your master’s hours won’t be counted directly as part of your overall direct hour total in your internship applications.
I know it’s a ways off, but it’s good to hear this before you enter a program hoping to finish very quickly. This might be part of the reason that Pepperdine’s average is actually 5 years to completion.

Do practitioner-scholar PsyD programs just have fewer credit/course requirements without research/stats compared to scientist-practitioner programs?

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm curious if Peppoerdine has just done a very good job of cultivating a select number of sites that accept their grads for internship. I have honestly never seen a Pepperdine app for internship or postdoc, and I used to be a faculty at a West Coast site. I also share skepticism that 3 years in grad school would give you a competitive application. I knew a handful of people who did a PhD in 4 years, and these people were beasts, who could power through things. They also had next to zero time outside of grad school for recreational activities. Personally, I'd rather spend the extra year to maintain my sanity. Of course, I also had full tuition remission and a high-paying (for a grad student) side research job.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Dude the price tag for Pepperdine in conjunction with cost of living...yikez. Did the math with a colleague a few years back and our conservative estimate was still mind boggling.

 

[Sanman]

I'm curious if Peppoerdine has just done a very good job of cultivating a select number of sites that accept their grads for internship. I have honestly never seen a Pepperdine app for internship or postdoc, and I used to be a faculty at a West Coast site. I also share skepticism that 3 years in grad school would give you a competitive application. I knew a handful of people who did a PhD in 4 years, and these people were beasts, who could power through things. They also had next to zero time outside of grad school for recreational activities. Personally, I'd rather spend the extra year to maintain my sanity. Of course, I also had full tuition remission and a high-paying (for a grad student) side research job.

Not sure how feasible it is anymore. It did it, but that was a long time ago it was not uncommon to add an extra year. Since the internship crisis internship hours have ballooned. As for the quality of Pepperdine students, I review a few of their internship applications every year. The candidates rate from average to "how did you get into grad school?!?" from my recollection. I do feel like some of their students opt for an extra year. Not sure what the average time to completion is though.

 

[psych.meout]

In addition to hours, I wonder about the quality of their practicum experiences. There are some great prac sites that my program frequently sends students to that only accept very advanced students. The quality is great, the experiences are unique (e.g., palliative care, specialty pain clinics), and having completed one of them is frequently brought up during internship interviews, but I can see how someone trying to apply for internship during their 3rd year wouldn't be competitive or experienced enough for these kinds of sites and would likely have most of their hours being just typical university counseling center or PP.

 

[singasongofjoy]

Cost of living alone would make Pepperdine a hard no for me. My best friend from grad school is in LA now and when we met up a few weeks ago and started talking rent, mortgages, parking, all of it... my brain felt like it would explode.

I agree with the above poster that chances App won't get accredited as part of a larger university system with affiliated supports seems very slim (though, as also state, not zero) and it certainly seems it would be less expensive all things considered. But having also been in a program with some not-so-psychologically-well-adjusted faculty, I would definitely pause, gather more specific info, and think long and hard about the advisor situation given what you shared. Maybe it was a one-off / uncommon clash of personalities (or a genuinely unprepared or unprofessional student?), maybe not. If the extra info doesn't allay your fears, might be worth waiting another year and apply more broadly if you're down to deciding between those two.

 

[JeyRo]

what’s the average overall cost for all of these programs (cost of living included)? My guess is PAU tops the list

 

[smalltownpsych]

Back when I went to Pepperdine, we were getting excellent practicum placements that could lead to solid internships. Back then three years was plenty to get the experience, but obviously a challenge to compete with the more traditional research-based PhD programs in that arena when we were typically behind on that. However, we often had more clinical experience, but that is probably less the case now. For example, I finished my dissertation two years after internship. That four year program then becomes 6 and even though I wasn't paying full tuition those two years, it was still adding up and my adjunct job at the time was just barely keeping me floating. One trick is that I moved out of the high cost and high stress of socal for internship and never looked back.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

Hi All! I have gotten into a few PsyD programs and I am looking for some outsider perspectives. I already have a MA and am going to have to move no matter what program I go to. Here are the programs I have narrowed it down to:

1. Pepperdine (tuition grant received which makes it much more doable and the program is 3 years plus internship)
2. PCOM (received a scholarship)
3. Mercer
4. Appalachian State University (a new program in the process of being accredited, funded assistantship provided)
5. PGSP Stanford Consortium (waitlisted)

Any thoughts or advice would be helpful! My coworkers and mentor all vote for Pepperdine. Thanks in advance for any help

I’m familiar with grads from Pepperdine, PGSP, and PAU and they seem to have received excellent training. Most I met were very good clinicians (note that these were at competitive externship and internship sites, so I’ve likely met the cream of the crop). And most came from very wealthy families. I had a couple of fellow interns from these programs - one drove a Tesla their parents bought them and the other drove a new BMW their parents bought for them. They also had fabulous homes their parents paid for. Another intern from one of these programs was able to purchase a million dollar home somehow right after internship (before turning 30). You described yourself as poor. Even if you are comfortably middle class, please do not underestimate the cost of living. I went to a fully funded program in a similarly expensive area, received felllowships for research and teaching, and still had to take loans to cover cost of living. And even though it was a small portion of what you would need to take, I still find the amount I have to pay back to be oppressive. I can’t imagine how it would be if I had to pay for tuition on top of that.

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

Hi All! I have gotten into a few PsyD programs and I am looking for some outsider perspectives. I already have a MA and am going to have to move no matter what program I go to. Here are the programs I have narrowed it down to:

1. Pepperdine (tuition grant received which makes it much more doable and the program is 3 years plus internship)
2. PCOM (received a scholarship)
3. Mercer
4. Appalachian State University (a new program in the process of being accredited, funded assistantship provided)
5. PGSP Stanford Consortium (waitlisted)

Any thoughts or advice would be helpful! My coworkers and mentor all vote for Pepperdine. Thanks in advance for any help

I am a Pepperdine MA alum and got to say Pepperdine is probably the best option out of all the listed (and ranked the best). Although pricey, their curriculum and practicum are well established. I worked with some of their PsyD students and realized they have to complete a research dissertation to graduate. Match rates are awesome and a popular university-based program in CA- students often land internships at UCLA, VA, LLU, other top academic centers. I know PGSP is getting up there too but not in the range of Pepperdine yet.

Now I mentioned my perspective on the schools, the decision to whether you should go for that PsyD and affordability is something I won't answer and leave it up to you and others to chat about.