Debating on what to do... (RN/NP or Pharmd)

[Hlin]

Hi All,

I just want to first say thanks to whoever can comment and help me

TLDR: I got accepted to highly ranked pharmacy and nursing schools and I am stuck between the two. I have talked to many nurses and pharmacists already, but I just can’t make up my mind.

Pharmacy: ~240k cost of attendance, job market saturation, but it is not as labor intensive as nurses and can still live comfortably with good money management.

Nursing: ~100k cost of attendance for the specific program that I am doing, higher demand, labor intensive. I will still have to practice as a bedside nurse for a few years before going to back to school for NP.

I am leaning more towards nursing because it is more hands-on and I feel I’d make more impact in patients’ lives. I read a lot of stuff online and majority of the opinions are in favor of nurses i.e. in higher demand and more job diversity.

The things that are holding me back are I do get a little squeamish when I see needles. I heard it is something people can get over with practice. I have also heard they are often overworked and underpaid. They do get a lot of backlash from the patient, patient’s family, and provider. Though they are in high demand, there is also a lot of competition too for new grads, especially in my area.

Curious if there are people who tried out pharmacy and then switched over to nursing or vice versa? Any thoughts welcome!

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[Amomentintime]

NP if you can handle patients' bodily fluids and are ok with it for a few years. Hands down.

 

[TheBlaah]

If you prefer more hands-on work, I recommend you going the nursing route. But I would make sure you can overcome your needle phobia because they handle needles everyday. Maybe practice with needles at home for a few weeks to see if you can get over it?

 

[lord999]

You need to work in both settings either as a volunteer or paid, the question speaks to your lack of experience in the health care field in general. Most people in pharmacy are now on the downward trajectory of the profession, so they are going to tell you nursing. I will say that nursing has the same trajectories, but they are much worse than pharmacy.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.22.6.191

The problem for nurses are not that they are not wanted, but hospital management cuts them to the bone with outrageous patient ratios and other indignities. That is why in good economic times, many nurses leave the workforce. In bad economic times, it sucks to be a nurse because hospital management can easily replace you.

Pharmacy does not have that level of job instability, even in the community yet. As we overproduce now, most hospital pharmacists are job locked to their sites, but they cannot be replaced at will due to the specialization as the training costs are too high. Nurses though are shift expendable.

My suspicion is that you do not know either work environment, and that is a possible bad news path for you. I urge your strongly to get experience.

 

[Hlin]

You need to work in both settings either as a volunteer or paid, the question speaks to your lack of experience in the health care field in general. Most people in pharmacy are now on the downward trajectory of the profession, so they are going to tell you nursing. I will say that nursing has the same trajectories, but they are much worse than pharmacy.

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.22.6.191

The problem for nurses are not that they are not wanted, but hospital management cuts them to the bone with outrageous patient ratios and other indignities. That is why in good economic times, many nurses leave the workforce. In bad economic times, it sucks to be a nurse because hospital management can easily replace you.

Pharmacy does not have that level of job instability, even in the community yet. As we overproduce now, most hospital pharmacists are job locked to their sites, but they cannot be replaced at will due to the specialization as the training costs are too high. Nurses though are shift expendable.

My suspicion is that you do not know either work environment, and that is a possible bad news path for you. I urge your strongly to get experience.

Thanks for replying!

I have worked in my university pharmacy before. It’s not the same as big chain retail pharmacy, but I know community pharmacy is not what I want I would like to do residency and be in ambulatory care for pharmacy.

I am currently working as a case manager so I work with complex individuals and help them connect with services and primary care. This was originally just going to be my gap year job but I end up learning a lot and feels fulfilled seeing people getting the services they need to maintain their health. I don’t know if I want to deal with pt emotions all the time and I feel the main thing that is stopping me from pharmacy is the cost and not sure if it is a good investment. Also I am not super good with chemistry but I heard that’s not really what the profession is all about if you want to do pt care. I also definitely want to stay in metropolitan areas. And I will be taking out loans because my family can not afford it.

But I also ready NPs are also super saturated? I mean there is more nursing schools then there is pharmacy schools. Why people focus more on pharmacy saturation?

 

[lord999]

Thanks for replying!

I have worked in my university pharmacy before. It’s not the same as big chain retail pharmacy, but I know community pharmacy is not what I want I would like to do residency and be in ambulatory care for pharmacy.

I am currently working as a case manager so I work with complex individuals and help them connect with services and primary care. This was originally just going to be my gap year job but I end up learning a lot and feels fulfilled seeing people getting the services they need to maintain their health. I don’t know if I want to deal with pt emotions all the time and I feel the main thing that is stopping me from pharmacy is the cost and not sure if it is a good investment. Also I am not super good with chemistry but I heard that’s not really what the profession is all about if you want to do pt care. I also definitely want to stay in metropolitan areas. And I will be taking out loans because my family can not afford it.

But I also ready NPs are also super saturated? I mean there is more nursing schools then there is pharmacy schools. Why people focus more on pharmacy saturation?

Who says you don't as a pharmacist? You usually get dumped with frustration and anger.

And NP's are saturated at the moment and will approach supersaturation as many of the young RN's do not want to face a career of management games with care (most floor and clinic RN's I know actually like the work if given a stable environment with industry acceptable ratios, but are angry, frustrated, and worried about given too much to do with patient safety implications and cannot give too much).

A case manager is an unlicensed social worker in many cases, which should tell you that social work doesn't pay, and it really doesn't pay. Nursing is more physically intensive and less rewarding in the outcomes sense.

If you like that kind of desk work, why not get an MHA/MBA combo and go for a FACHE? Hospital administration does pay, does give you power, and can make people happy.

 

[mentos]

Hi All,

I just want to first say thanks to whoever can comment and help me

TLDR: I got accepted to highly ranked pharmacy and nursing schools and I am stuck between the two. I have talked to many nurses and pharmacists already, but I just can’t make up my mind.

Pharmacy: ~240k cost of attendance, job market saturation, but it is not as labor intensive as nurses and can still live comfortably with good money management.

Nursing: ~100k cost of attendance for the specific program that I am doing, higher demand, labor intensive. I will still have to practice as a bedside nurse for a few years before going to back to school for NP.

I am leaning more towards nursing because it is more hands-on and I feel I’d make more impact in patients’ lives. I read a lot of stuff online and majority of the opinions are in favor of nurses i.e. in higher demand and more job diversity.

The things that are holding me back are I do get a little squeamish when I see needles. I heard it is something people can get over with practice. I have also heard they are often overworked and underpaid. They do get a lot of backlash from the patient, patient’s family, and provider. Though they are in high demand, there is also a lot of competition too for new grads, especially in my area.

Curious if there are people who tried out pharmacy and then switched over to nursing or vice versa? Any thoughts welcome!

There's no such thing as a top ranked pharmacy school. No employer cares which pharmacy school you go to. 240k is a ridiculous price. You cannot live comfortably with this much debt on a pharmacist salary, assuming you can even get a job. If you do get a job, it'll probably be at CVS (which is very labor intensive) in the middle of nowhere. Tuition will be even higher and pharmacist wages even lower by the time you graduate. Avoid at all costs.

Nursing will always be in demand. You can work anywhere you want. They will always be well respected and paid well. The nurses union in my state just negotiated hazard pay, they're now getting $10/hr on top of what they already make, some make more than pharmacists now. Pharmacists get nothing.

 

[zNoodlez]

Who says you don't as a pharmacist? You usually get dumped with frustration and anger.

And NP's are saturated at the moment and will approach supersaturation as many of the young RN's do not want to face a career of management games with care (most floor and clinic RN's I know actually like the work if given a stable environment with industry acceptable ratios, but are angry, frustrated, and worried about given too much to do with patient safety implications and cannot give too much).

A case manager is an unlicensed social worker in many cases, which should tell you that social work doesn't pay, and it really doesn't pay. Nursing is more physically intensive and less rewarding in the outcomes sense.

If you like that kind of desk work, why not get an MHA/MBA combo and go for a FACHE? Hospital administration does pay, does give you power, and can make people happy.

How many administrative positions are there really? For every 1 administrative position there are hundreds of nursing jobs I would assume.

 

[Splenda88]

I will throw that out there...

Based on hospitalist offers I have been getting in my email and calls from recruiters, I would say medical school. However, the COA will be 300k+

 

[Momus]

This shouldn't even be a debate.

Job vs. No job. You pick.

 

[Hels2007]

For what it's worth, pharmacists are having to handle needles too - I think every state by now allows for pharmacist immunizations, and retail employers definitely push everyone to do it.

For making a choice, I can suggest several approaches:
- Make a list of all the pros and cons you can think of for both professions, share it with a few practicing members of each profession and see if it's realistic or not. Use the refined list to guide your choice. Maybe there will be a deal breaker in one of the columns.
- Think of what your dream job would be like. Think of which of the two professions would get you there faster and/or with higher likelihood of success.
- Check your 'gut feeling' - such as do a coin toss with heads for pharmacy, tails for nursing, and do 10-20 tosses, if you notice yourself hoping for a certain outcome, that's what you actually want.

 

[nonizondi]

It’s not about money, it’s about what you feel will make you happy and what you are good at doing. Don’t go into nursing if you are not cut out it for unless you will get yourself in trouble. Pharmacists give immunizations but it’s not a invasive as an injection or other nursing procedures ..

 

[mentos]

It’s not about money, it’s about what you feel will make you happy and what you are good at doing. Don’t go into nursing if you are not cut out it for unless you will get yourself in trouble. Pharmacists give immunizations but it’s not a invasive as an injection or other nursing procedures ..

You gotta have a job to pay for loans, rent, food etc so of course money is a big consideration. The chances of getting a job and living comfortably in 2024 as a pharmacist are low.

 

[sfachine]

Dont forget.Every extra year in school or residency is lost income.You start earning much earlier as a nurse.

 

[johnpharm01]

Hi All,

I just want to first say thanks to whoever can comment and help me

TLDR: I got accepted to highly ranked pharmacy and nursing schools and I am stuck between the two. I have talked to many nurses and pharmacists already, but I just can’t make up my mind.

Pharmacy: ~240k cost of attendance, job market saturation, but it is not as labor intensive as nurses and can still live comfortably with good money management.

Nursing: ~100k cost of attendance for the specific program that I am doing, higher demand, labor intensive. I will still have to practice as a bedside nurse for a few years before going to back to school for NP.

I am leaning more towards nursing because it is more hands-on and I feel I’d make more impact in patients’ lives. I read a lot of stuff online and majority of the opinions are in favor of nurses i.e. in higher demand and more job diversity.

The things that are holding me back are I do get a little squeamish when I see needles. I heard it is something people can get over with practice. I have also heard they are often overworked and underpaid. They do get a lot of backlash from the patient, patient’s family, and provider. Though they are in high demand, there is also a lot of competition too for new grads, especially in my area.

Curious if there are people who tried out pharmacy and then switched over to nursing or vice versa? Any thoughts welcome!

I am a long term pharmacist and if I had to choose between I would choose neither. I would look at dental or medicine perhaps pt or rt or lab. There are a lot of healthcare positions nursing and pharmacy are just ones most people are familiar with.

If I had to choose between the two I would choose nursing but have a plan. Like retail pharmacy, bedside nursing is the frontline. Unlike pharmacy, nurses are actually involved in healthcare and have opportunities to grow. Nurses also can have power and be considered authority figures. Pharmacists, including directors, are sheep having little to no say in their jobs. Despite what pharmacy schools sell, there are really only two practice settings retail and hospital. Retail is the big employer and with consolidation that means CVS or Walgreens. There is no way I would pay nearly a quarter a million dollars to be a corporate peon with no future.

 

[rxkrafted]

If you can live with paying off >$250K in debt with another job that you may have to fallback on because you couldn't find a job in pharmacy, then sure.
If you go the nursing route, you will always find a job somewhere.
You also mentioned that you want to stay in metropolitan areas... With a pharmacy career, you can't pick and choose where you want to work. You go where you can find a dam job.

 

[nonizondi]

You gotta have a job to pay for loans, rent, food etc so of course money is a big consideration. The chances of getting a job and living comfortably in 2024 as a pharmacist are low.

We already know you don’t like pharmacy. Why haven’t you quit long time ago?

 

[radio frequency]

I definitely wouldn't do pharmacy today. Maybe RN to NP, but that's iffy too.

I would suggest meeting/hanging out with some pharmacists, RNs, PAs and MDs. Find out what they like and don't like about their jobs when they are aren't holding back. No job is all roses, but pharmacy is looking especially bad for the future based on reimbursement levels and pharmacist oversupply. Nursing is good for some people, but it's really touchy feely. That may or may not suit you.

If I could do it over again I might have considered the MD path, hoping to aim for a specialty like GI. Spending time in residency really was the thing that held me back (I really value my sleep), but in retrospect I think it may have been ok.

I have a pretty awesome pharmacy job and I still wouldn't go back and do it again as there is no job security anymore. So I have to plan like my job may not exist in 10 years. Because it's possible it may not.

 

[radio frequency]

We already know you don’t like pharmacy. Why haven’t you quit long time ago?

mentos doesn't dislike pharmacy; they just like laying out facts. I think you are reading the room incorrectly, pre-pharm. Why haven't they left? Probably because they are still trying to save money for the eventual layoffs we all expect.

 

[mentos]

We already know you don’t like pharmacy. Why haven’t you quit long time ago?

I have a great job that I like that no one else will ever get the chance to have until I retire/die or the company goes out of business which is the most likely scenario. The ship has sailed for positions like mine.

I am answering OP's question honestly and truthfully. You can't tell someone "it's not about the money" when they have a realistic chance of being unemployed with 250k debt. There is no arguing that this is a highly probable scenario. If you don't agree that this is likely what will happen to a new grad in 2024 then you are delusional or lying, because it's already happening now. I'm just keeping it real.

But let's pretend OP does graduate and gets a job at the going market rate which is around $50/hr at 32 hours per week. That is $83,200 before taxes, about $58,240 after taxes or take home of $4,853 per month before health insurance, 401k, rent, car payment, food, utilities etc. A loan payment on $250,000 direct unsubsidized student loans at 6.8% is $2,786 per month for 10 years. That is more expensive than my mortgage. Is it worth it to give up 4 years of your youth, lose 4 years opportunity cost of no income, living in an undesirable area, having little to no job security, and working in harsh conditions to be in this scenario? If so then to each their own.

 

[radio frequency]

Also, don't let needle fear be your main decision maker here. You can get over that with time and patience. If you think you really want hands-on patient care, pharmacy isn't going to suit you at all, so you can stop considering that option and start looking at alternatives.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I have a great job that I like that no one else will ever get the chance to have until I retire/die or the company goes out of business which is the most likely scenario. The ship has sailed for positions like mine.

I am answering OP's question honestly and truthfully. You can't tell someone "it's not about the money" when they have a realistic chance of being unemployed with 250k debt. There is no arguing that this is a highly probable scenario. If you don't agree that this is likely what will happen to a new grad in 2024 then you are delusional or lying, because it's already happening now. I'm just keeping it real.

But let's pretend OP does graduate and gets a job at the going market rate which is around $50/hr at 32 hours per week. That is $83,200 before taxes, about $58,240 after taxes or take home of $4,853 per month before health insurance, 401k, rent, car payment, food, utilities etc. A loan payment on $250,000 direct unsubsidized student loans at 6.8% is $2,786 per month for 10 years. That is more expensive than my mortgage. Is it worth it to give up 4 years of your youth, lose 4 years opportunity cost of no income, living in an undesirable area, having little to no job security, and working in harsh conditions to be in this scenario? If so then to each their own.

Even worse, what about the potential scenario where the OP graduates from pharmacy school in 2024 and then realizes that deep down, they honestly don't have what it takes to do the bolded items in your post?

OP: the scenario I described above is exactly the one I'm finding myself in now. I will graduate from pharmacy school in a couple weeks and I have zero job prospects. I don't live in a desirable area, and yet even the chain retail pharmacist job market here is saturated, with both CVS and Walgreens requiring applicants to have at least a year of retail pharmacy experience to even be eligible for consideration. I didn't match with any residency programs, and residency completion is now a prerequisite even for most rural hospital pharmacist positions. That means that my only realistic hope of landing a pharmacist job is to move to a rural (literally the middle of nowhere) town to work at a retail chain pharmacy location that is not yet receiving enough applications to justify implementing the year-of-experience requirement.

You really need to ask yourself if your passion for working as a pharmacist is so strong and undying that you'd be willing to sacrifice literally every other element of your existence, from your location to your hobbies to opportunities to meet other people your age, just to fulfill that passion.

In other words, will you be happy if none of the other aspirations in your life fall into place, just as long as you get to work as a pharmacist?

If the answer is "no," then I strongly urge you to pursue a career in nursing, because otherwise you might find yourself celebrating your May 2024 graduation by researching other grad programs in professions with viable job markets.

I suggest you research and shadow CRNAs, especially if you're considering the nursing route. There are jobs for new grads in literally every city, there are a variety of practice models they have the option of working in, and they can earn insanely high incomes if they're willing to live and work in rural areas (whereas you'd make an entry-level retail pharmacist's salary doing this as a pharmacist simply because there are no other opportunities).

 

[nonizondi]

mentos doesn't dislike pharmacy; they just like laying out facts. I think you are reading the room incorrectly, pre-pharm. Why haven't they left? Probably because they are still trying to save money for the eventual layoffs we all expect.

Who’s a pre pharm? I hope you weren’t referring to me because I’m not a pre pharm. Anyway, pharmacy saturation has been a thing here on sdn as way back as 2012 and people still willfully applied to and graduated from pharmacy school regardless of the tuition hikes .I am not an advocate for the profession but no profession is perfect. Many nurses have quit their job because of burnout, same with doctors . I doubt mentos is even employed because if he was employed he wouldn’t have the time to spam every thread about pharmacy.. S**t is getting tired.. He shouldn’t be allowed to post anything here until he quits his pharmacist job ( if he truly has one ) and goes back to school to study computer science, or nursing, or medicine because he can’t decide which one he wants to do. If he quits his job, he will help reduce the saturation and open up a vacancy for any unemployed pharmacist.

 

[radio frequency]

Who’s a pre pharm? I hope you weren’t referring to me because I’m not a pre pharm. Anyway, pharmacy saturation has been a thing here on sdn as way back as 2012 and people still willfully applied to and graduated from pharmacy school regardless of the tuition hikes .I am not an advocate for the profession but no profession is perfect. Many nurses have quit their job because of burnout, same with doctors . I doubt mentos is even employed because if he was employed he wouldn’t have the time to spam every thread about pharmacy.. S**t is getting tired.. He shouldn’t be allowed to post anything here until he quits his pharmacist job ( if he truly has one ) and goes back to school to study computer science, or nursing, or medicine because he can’t decide which one he wants to do. If he quits his job, he will help reduce the saturation and open up a vacancy for any unemployed pharmacist.

Well, pre-pharm is what your profile said. I assumed that was accurate.

Also, your response makes no sense.

 

[nonizondi]

Well, pre-pharm is what your profile said. I assumed that was accurate.

Also, your response makes no sense.

Maybe that’s because you lack common sense.

 

[mentos]

Who’s a pre pharm? I hope you weren’t referring to me because I’m not a pre pharm. Anyway, pharmacy saturation has been a thing here on sdn as way back as 2012 and people still willfully applied to and graduated from pharmacy school regardless of the tuition hikes .I am not an advocate for the profession but no profession is perfect. Many nurses have quit their job because of burnout, same with doctors . I doubt mentos is even employed because if he was employed he wouldn’t have the time to spam every thread about pharmacy.. S**t is getting tired.. He shouldn’t be allowed to post anything here until he quits his pharmacist job ( if he truly has one ) and goes back to school to study computer science, or nursing, or medicine because he can’t decide which one he wants to do. If he quits his job, he will help reduce the saturation and open up a vacancy for any unemployed pharmacist.

So I should quit the job that I don't have? That makes sense. I post on my downtime at work. I have a lot of downtime at work, it's great.

Everything that I've said was true. Since you are well aware of the saturation in the field then you straight up lied to OP when you said it's not about the money. That's not cool. Very convenient of you to ignore the math that I posted. So are you advocating OP spend 4 years in pharmacy school to graduate with a loan payment of $2,786 per month for 10 years while taking home $4,853 per month (if lucky enough to find a job) in an undesirable area?

 

[radio frequency]

Maybe that’s because you lack common sense.

Says the person whose profile still says pre-pharmacy. You are pretty funny; I hope you keep posting.

 

[mentos]

Says the person whose profile still says pre-pharmacy. You are pretty funny; I hope you keep posting.

Based on her recent posts she is a student in an accelerated program. That explains everything! She isn't even a pharmacist yet but she is here giving career advice and bashing us working pharmacists!

 

[nonizondi]

Based on her recent posts she is a student in an accelerated program. That explains everything! She isn't even a pharmacist yet but she is here giving career advice and bashing us working pharmacists!

You see your life? Because I have a female’s picture on my profile you assume that I’m a female.. I’m tired of seeing you on every thread.. We all know that pharmacy is saturated. Its not a secret. You and your brigade need to chill out

 

[nonizondi]

So I should quit the job that I don't have? That makes sense. I post on my downtime at work. I have a lot of downtime at work, it's great.

Everything that I've said was true. Since you are well aware of the saturation in the field then you straight up lied to OP when you said it's not about the money. That's not cool. Very convenient of you to ignore the math that I posted. So are you advocating OP spend 4 years in pharmacy school to graduate with a loan payment of $2,786 per month for 10 years while taking home $4,853 per month (if lucky enough to find a job) in an undesirable area?

I never told OP to choose pharmacy rather I told her to make her choice wisely . Your posts are becoming pathetic.. It sounds like a cry for help. Let me know if you need a therapist and please don’t bother replying because I’m at work and I’m busy ( unlike you that has a lot of down time at work ).

 

[mentos]

please don’t bother replying because I’m at work and I’m busy ( unlike you that has a lot of down time at work ).

So busy eh?

I have an office job where I can study and catch up on studies when I’m at work.

 

[mentos]

It’s not about money, it’s about what you feel will make you happy and what you are good at doing.

The pay is sustainable for a student not for a man planning to start a family.

I thought it wasn't about the money?

 

[BC_89]

Edits have been established and users are reminded to watch language and/or associated troll-baiting.

As for OP, this may/may not be helpful but it's never a bad thing to defer an acceptance for a year and go shadow different professions to know what you might or might not see yourself doing in the next decades of your life. The best thing I ever did was work some years after undergrad and experience specific settings that somewhat led me to what my end goals are (savings, family obligations, financial comparisons, what I seem to tolerate, etc).

This is coming as a non-trad (outlier) current student and not a healthcare professional so to each their own. However a big factor currently for me is reward vs risk (ie no debt at graduation with willingness to move - ok with part time gigs should it arise). Truthfully if I had to pay everything out of pocket with loans I'd strongly reevaluate any decision pursuing pharmacy at this time (loans go up, hourly compensation going down, hours getting harder to get).

 

[Hlin]

I have a great job that I like that no one else will ever get the chance to have until I retire/die or the company goes out of business which is the most likely scenario. The ship has sailed for positions like mine.

I am answering OP's question honestly and truthfully. You can't tell someone "it's not about the money" when they have a realistic chance of being unemployed with 250k debt. There is no arguing that this is a highly probable scenario. If you don't agree that this is likely what will happen to a new grad in 2024 then you are delusional or lying, because it's already happening now. I'm just keeping it real.

But let's pretend OP does graduate and gets a job at the going market rate which is around $50/hr at 32 hours per week. That is $83,200 before taxes, about $58,240 after taxes or take home of $4,853 per month before health insurance, 401k, rent, car payment, food, utilities etc. A loan payment on $250,000 direct unsubsidized student loans at 6.8% is $2,786 per month for 10 years. That is more expensive than my mortgage. Is it worth it to give up 4 years of your youth, lose 4 years opportunity cost of no income, living in an undesirable area, having little to no job security, and working in harsh conditions to be in this scenario? If so then to each their own.

Thanks for laying out the math for me! It is a lot of money and I know I will be taking out a large loan since my family can not afford it.

I guess I wouldn’t mind going back home for a couple years which is in the rural part of California. But at the same time, I don’t want to because I simply don’t want to go back. There is nothing to do in my hometown lol.

From the start I pretty much know some of the problems with pharmacy already and I think that’s why I applied for nursing school as well just to see if I can get in. My decision to apply for nursing school wasn’t out of nowhere. I was switching between nursing and pharmacy quite a lot actually during undergrad because I thought I wasnt competitive enough for pharmacy and I also didn’t know much either. I only knew about hospital and retail. Until last year of my time at my school pharmacy, I was introduced to ambulatory care and sector like technology where pharmacist can go and work for a start up (i.e telemedicine) kinda drew me back in to pharmacy again. I am more interested in ambulatory care though. It would be cool to work in a start up I guess but I am sure those are even more competitive and would require you to do a residency also.

I basically told myself I would consider pharmacy only if I get accepted to my dream school which I did. But I also got into my dream school for nursing. So it is making my decision really hard. And hearing from you all, I see positive things for nursing and negative things pharmacy which I kinda expected lol.

But seeing the math lays out really put it in perspective. So thanks for that!

I always had a passion to provide care for low-income populations. But I’d like to start that in major metropolitan areas because that’s where my SO and my friends are at. I don’t want to be in huge amount of debt because I want to start help out my family soon too.

side question: do you have to like chemistry, ochem, and biochem stuff to do good for pharmacy? I really hate those courses and my GPA was not bad but I wouldn’t say it was super good either. I think my personal statement is what got me into pharmacy schools.

 

[mentos]

Thanks for laying out the math for me! It is a lot of money and I know I will be taking out a large loan since my family can not afford it.

I guess I wouldn’t mind going back home for a couple years which is in the rural part of California. But at the same time, I don’t want to because I simply don’t want to go back. There is nothing to do in my hometown lol.

From the start I pretty much know some of the problems with pharmacy already and I think that’s why I applied for nursing school as well just to see if I can get in. My decision to apply for nursing school wasn’t out of nowhere. I was switching between nursing and pharmacy quite a lot actually during undergrad because I thought I wasnt competitive enough for pharmacy and I also didn’t know much either. I only knew about hospital and retail. Until last year of my time at my school pharmacy, I was introduced to ambulatory care and sector like technology where pharmacist can go and work for a start up (i.e telemedicine) kinda drew me back in to pharmacy again. I am more interested in ambulatory care though. It would be cool to work in a start up I guess but I am sure those are even more competitive and would require you to do a residency also.

I basically told myself I would consider pharmacy only if I get accepted to my dream school which I did. But I also got into my dream school for nursing. So it is making my decision really hard. And hearing from you all, I see positive things for nursing and negative things pharmacy which I kinda expected lol.

But seeing the math lays out really put it in perspective. So thanks for that!

I always had a passion to provide care for low-income populations. But I’d like to start that in major metropolitan areas because that’s where my SO and my friends are at. I don’t want to be in huge amount of debt because I want to start help out my family soon too.

side question: do you have to like chemistry, ochem, and biochem stuff to do good for pharmacy? I really hate those courses and my GPA was not bad but I wouldn’t say it was super good either. I think my personal statement is what got me into pharmacy schools.

You're welcome! Glad someone appreciates the math here LoL. Ambulatory care is another unicorn job for a pharmacist. If you can get one, fantastic. But statistically you will end up miserable at CVS.

Nursing will always be a low debt, well paying, respected, in demand job with opportunity to advance. You can't go wrong with a nursing degree.

For your side question, it will vary from school to school but you'll probably have to take 1-2 biochem courses your P1 or P2 year and then P2 or P3 year has pharmacology and pharmacokinetics courses which have some ochem but honestly not as much as I thought. Pharm school courses focus more on patient cases and medication therapy where you get to play doctor. I would say there is more physiology involved than chem and biochem. I don't remember much chemistry or biochem at all on the NAPLEX.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Thanks for replying!
I have worked in my university pharmacy before. It’s not the same as big chain retail pharmacy, but I know community pharmacy is not what I want I would like to do residency and be in ambulatory care for pharmacy.

OK, this answers your question. Do NOT go into pharmacy. 60 - 70% of pharmacists work in community pharmacy, the majority of those for big chains. This includes pharmacists with residencies. If you are not willing to work in community pharmacy, then pharmacy is not for you, because changes are that will be where you end up working--even if you get a residency. It's fine to go in preferring and hoping to get into ambulatory care, but most likely you will not, so do NOT be a pharmacist. It's like someone who wants to go to medical school, but only if they can be an opthamalogist and they don't want to work as a family/pediatric/internist. Chances are they will be working as a family/pediatric/internist, so if they can't do that, they should not be going to medical school. If you are dead set about community pharmacy, do NOT take out pharmacy loans and be a pharmacist.

<<Also I am not super good with chemistry but I heard that’s not really what the profession is all about if you want to do pt care. I also definitely want to stay in metropolitan areas. And I will be taking out loans because my family can not afford it.>>

Ok, here is reality. If you insist on staying in a metropolitan area, your chances of any job, whether community pharmacist or nurse practitioner will be extremely limited. You will have no choice in what "type" of pharmacist or NP you want to be, you will be thrilled that you got any job offers at all, and you will take those jobs. I would not recommend either of these career options if your first priority is to stay in a metropolitan area. What you should do is look at what industries are in your area, and what kind of degrees these industries prefer in hiring.

But I also ready NPs are also super saturated? I mean there is more nursing schools then there is pharmacy schools. Why people focus more on pharmacy saturation?

Just like pharmacy, NP's are 100% saturated in metropolitan areas. If you were willing to move to a rural area, you could fairly easily find an NP job (and your chances of finding a pharmacist hospital job would be considerably greater....but as a generalist, not as a specialist.) Probably 85% of pharmacy and NP graduates want to work in big cities.....that is why there are no jobs for pharmacy and NP graduates in big cities.

It’s not about money, it’s about what you feel will make you happy and what you are good at doing. Don’t go into nursing if you are not cut out it for unless you will get yourself in trouble. Pharmacists give immunizations but it’s not a invasive as an injection or other nursing procedures ..

Excellent advice, I hope OP listens to this For picking a career 1) identify your strengths 2) figure out what kinds of jobs would use those strengths 3) look at the area you want to live and see what kind of jobs are available in that area that would use your strengths 4) only after narrowing down jobs based on the first 3, then pick the job that you would most enjoy and/or make the most money at 5) pursue an education to qualify you for that job. People who skip the first 3 steps and go straight to #4 are the ones who find themselves massively in debt and chronically unhappy.

 

[mentos]

Because I have a female’s picture on my profile you assume that I’m a female..

Nice try, lady. Men do not use female pics as avatars and they do not speak like this:

I won .. Cash me outside.. How 'bout that?

Troll be gone. This is why no one takes sdn seriously. You won’t find this type of post on reddit. You added too much sauce to this pasta.

How I wish a bish would.

 

[KARM12]

There are a lot more opportunities for an RN...so many nurses in leadership roles and diverse areas of practice.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I’m tired of seeing you on every thread.. We all know that pharmacy is saturated. Its not a secret. You and your brigade need to chill out

“We all know how bad COVID-19 is. It’s not a secret.”

*still goes on a cruise*

 

[Splenda88]

You see your life? Because I have a female’s picture on my profile you assume that I’m a female.. I’m tired of seeing you on every thread.. We all know that pharmacy is saturated. Its not a secret. You and your brigade need to chill out

These threads are valuable for people who want to know what they are getting into... I was planning to go to pharm school until I read the SDN pharmacy forum in 2012-2013. My guess is that things are probably even worse now. I am glad there are some people in SDN who won't sugarcoat the state of their profession.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

Why only Pharm or RN? Why not something else?

I think it really depends on what you wanna do after you graduate. Go look for what you wanna do, check out a few job postings, see what they are looking for, then make the decision.

I would be a little different here, I would say go for pharmacy school. But 240k is way too much, which school is that? UCSF or USC? There are definitely other highly ranked yet cheaper schools, like UBuffalo, UWashington, UF, or UNC Chapel Hill. Those rankings are mainly for research, so if you have no interest in research, then it really doesn't matter. Go for the cheapest instead.

 

[mentos]

These threads are valuable for people who want to know what they are getting into... I was planning to go to pharm school until I read the SDN pharmacy forum in 2012-2013. My guess is that things are probably even worse now. I am glad there are some people in SDN who won't sugarcoat the state of their profession.

Good for you and I'm glad you found our posts information. nonizondi ignored our advice and will most likely end up with 200k debt and no job. Now she is resorting to insults and name calling because we were right. It's a typical pattern.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Nice try, lady. Men do not use female pics as avatars and they do not speak like this:

I don't know, with all the quotes you gave, I don't know any women who talk like that. It sounds more like a man pretending to be a woman. But people are all so individual, who knows? And does it matter? Either the person is right, an idiot, or a troll....gender really doesn't matter.

 

[mentos]

I don't know, with all the quotes you gave, I don't know any women who talk like that. It sounds more like a man pretending to be a woman. But people are all so individual, who knows? And does it matter? Either the person is right, an idiot, or a troll....gender really doesn't matter.

No it doesn't matter what her gender is except she threw insults at me because I spoke the truth. She resorted to lying about being a man to try to make me look bad. But it's obvious that she is a woman. Again there's nothing wrong with that but why lie?

 

[zNoodlez]

I don't know, with all the quotes you gave, I don't know any women who talk like that. It sounds more like a man pretending to be a woman. But people are all so individual, who knows? And does it matter? Either the person is right, an idiot, or a troll....gender really doesn't matter.

That person sounds like a 10-year-old Fortnite player.

 

[Hlin]

Why only Pharm or RN? Why not something else?

I think it really depends on what you wanna do after you graduate. Go look for what you wanna do, check out a few job postings, see what they are looking for, then make the decision.

I would be a little different here, I would say go for pharmacy school. But 240k is way too much, which school is that? UCSF or USC? There are definitely other highly ranked yet cheaper schools, like UBuffalo, UWashington, UF, or UNC Chapel Hill. Those rankings are mainly for research, so if you have no interest in research, then it really doesn't matter. Go for the cheapest instead.

Yeah, it’s UCSF. I didn’t apply for out of state schools because many required PCAT and I didn’t have interest going out of state either.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Yeah, it’s UCSF. I didn’t apply for out of state schools because many required PCAT and I didn’t have interest going out of state either.

With the pharmacist job market saturation being especially bad in California you will most definitely have to move out of state anyway if you want to have a job after you graduate.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

Yeah, it’s UCSF. I didn’t apply for out of state schools because many required PCAT and I didn’t have interest going out of state either.

If it is UCSF, go for pharmacy, especially if you are interested in research!

This is a no brainer, ignore anybody saying you should go for nursing. UCSF has THE best pharmaceutical research faculty of all pharmacy schools, with likes of Leslie Benet, who is so well-known in pharma/biotech industry that a lot of his pupils are now holding director or sr. director positions in leading pharma companies. The systems biology and bioinformatics research at UCSF is also top notch. If you spend your spare time working for them, without doing any retail or clinical work, and do 1-2 industry summer internships, I am pretty sure that you can get an industry job right after graduation without needing a fellowship. I can't speak highly enough of UCSF's research strength in dmpk, systems biology and bioinformatics. It just opens a lot of doors in the long run.

But if you are not so interested in research and just wanna go the clinical route, don't go for pharmacy or nursing. improve your stats and maybe apply to med school.

 

[harvoni_rituxan]

With the pharmacist job market saturation being especially bad in California you will most definitely have to move out of state anyway if you want to have a job after you graduate.

yeah, i got an industry job in california right after grad, so what are you talking about?

 

[BelowTheMean]

If it helps, a lot of RNs at my place that became NPs now round with the doctors or took over clinics that used to be run by pharmacists. Isnt this what pharmacists went to residency to do? Those pharmacists now are moved around to float while the NP does their whole job. Won't comment on whether or not theyre good as the pharmacist running it but at least they can prescribe and do physical exams is what facilities care about. Also, we have told all 4 of our residents to go look for jobs elsewhere as we will not hire any. Third year in a row not hiring a single resident when before we hired at least half of them for almost a decade. You decide which path, but ill tell you one thing, if you dont pick RN, just dont pick pharmacy either. Do something else. Youll thank me daily in the future. Good luck.