D.o.

[cure4cancer]

Hi, I'm curious agian, I've been surfing the forums quite a bit and I keep seeing DO vs MD type stuff..
What is a DO? Some type of medical degree I'm guessing..
I also noticed it doesn't have very much respect from anyone, is it because its really easy to get into ? or is the pay significantly less for a DO than a MD ?

Thanks in advance !

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cure4cancer]

also i would like to know if there are any DO schools in Canada. thanks agian!

 

[Shinken]

DOs don't get much respect from ignorant SDN pre-meds. Most people that are in the process of applying to med school in the US have essentially no experience in the health care system (other than shadowing a physician in a clinic for a couple of hours).

In the real world (the world beyond a computer screen and a keyboard), DOs are the same as MDs with some added skills: improved patient communication skills and OMT. The OMT part is obvious. The communication skills is a bit more intangible but has been documented in some studies (including a study conducted by an MD from the UNC school of Medicine).

I would suggest if you want to learn more about becoming a DO that you go to the osteopathic forum (or pre-osteopathic as well) and check out the stickies and not the threads. The stickies contain a ton of good information.

As far as DO schools in Canada, there are probably some but they only teach the OMT portion (Osteopathic Manipulative Treatment). Only DO schools in the US teach the full spectrum of modern medicine in addition to OMT. Also, US DO graduates are allowed to practice medicine in Canada in some provinces if some requirements are met. Again, that's all on the stickies.

Good luck!

 

[docbill]

Hi, I'm curious agian, I've been surfing the forums quite a bit and I keep seeing DO vs MD type stuff..
What is a DO? Some type of medical degree I'm guessing..
I also noticed it doesn't have very much respect from anyone, is it because its really easy to get into ? or is the pay significantly less for a DO than a MD ?

Thanks in advance !

Hi, being a Canadian (From Vancouver) and going into a DO program at the University of New England (Maine). I have research the field very closely.

I will tell you straight out the following:

1) DO is no less than an MD.
2) DOs have equal practice rights as MDs in the US and in ALL BUT 2 or 3 PROVINCES. (The major 4: BC, AB, ON, QC NO LIMITATION ON PRACTICE)
3) DOs get payed EXACTLY THE SAME AS MDs.
4) DOs can specialize in EXACTLY the same residencies/specialty as MDs.
5) It is much much much easier to come back and work as a Physician in Canada/ or match in some Canadian residencies if you are a US trained DO, (as US trained MD) rather than foreign medical graduate (almost impossible).
6) The noticable advantage about being a DO, is being trained like identically to an MD + the use of OMT.
7) The evaluation for admission for DO programs are slightly different. They evaluate more than just your marks. There is a lower cut off GPA. YES. The stats are lower YES. This is the simple clear answer, but will they accept anyone with the average GPA and MCAT score NO

Contact me (PM) or UVic guy for more info. Also I can put you in contact with DOs in BC, AB or ON if you wish.

Do google search for DO.
ba

 

[tofurious]

I am a US MD so please don't treat the following as something from "ignorant SDN pre-meds". If you only listen to these folks, no one should be picking a US MD degree over US DO degrees. That obviously is not true. You should talk to some US and Canadian MDs on why people are not rushing to get their DO degrees. Perhaps listening to the "ignorant SDN pre-meds" will save you from a potentially life-changing decision.

 

[docbill]

I am a US MD so please don't treat the following as something from "ignorant SDN pre-meds". If you only listen to these folks, no one should be picking a US MD degree over US DO degrees. That obviously is not true. You should talk to some US and Canadian MDs on why people are not rushing to get their DO degrees. Perhaps listening to the "ignorant SDN pre-meds" will save you from a potentially life-changing decision.

Do share... this is an open forum... if you have something useful to add. I and other would love to hear it. I am open minded and even though I have choosen this path.. I am still listing... maybe you can educate me on something important. Hopefuly you won't turn it into an MD vs. DO thread.

 

[Shinken]

I am a US MD so please don't treat the following as something from "ignorant SDN pre-meds". If you only listen to these folks, no one should be picking a US MD degree over US DO degrees. That obviously is not true. You should talk to some US and Canadian MDs on why people are not rushing to get their DO degrees. Perhaps listening to the "ignorant SDN pre-meds" will save you from a potentially life-changing decision.

Please note that I never recommended the OP to choose a DO over an MD. If the OP can get a US MD degree it will be much, much better for him if he chooses to return to Canada and practice there.

I simply made clear that the DO degree isn't as horrible as SDN pre-meds make it sound (and if you're a US MD then you're not a pre-med and I assume you're well aware of the value of an osteopathic education in the US).

I didn't mean to offend MDs, I was simply defending DOs and making sure the OP wasn't swayed by silly threads on SDN. Tofurious, as a US MD you surely must admit that many of the DO vs MD threads on SDN are completely stupid and senseless in light of the "real world." Let's not turn this into another MD vs DO thread.

 

[cure4cancer]

Hey thanks for the quick replies,
I just have a question for docbill (or anyone that can answer this), what is with people transferring over to australia (new england university is in australia right?) for a medical education? can these people apply to residencies in the states and in canada more easily than say a MD from India?

and also I would love the idea of being able to get in contact with a DO, I'll contact you when my summer session starts (when I will actually have time).
Do you specifically know any in the vancouver/burnaby/richmond area?

I actually live right in the center of vancouver so hopefully the DO's that you know are practicing around the area I'm living in.

Thanks a bunch !!

And also as a side thing, could you guys probably give me some numbers to work with?
like average gpa? average mcat? thanks agian!

 

[cure4cancer]

oh yes one more thing,
I'm currently at UBC right now (not sure if that matters or not), I just read the thread below mine about going from canada -> australia/carribean -> USA -> Canada

i'm just wondering if those 'out-of-country' schools will accept people with a degree in nursing.. because I know up here at UBC all we need are the pre-req's, and we could get into med even with a major in music.. do these schools accept 3rd year applicants without a degree? and how long would the entire process take??
i'm guessing 4 years to get a MD/DO in a carib. school, then another 2-3 year residency in the states??

 

[docbill]

Hi,

I am actually going to University of New England (UNE) in Maine, USA. Not Australia. (Australia is a whole different thing. Most likely like Moo and others have said in the other thread, going to Australia to study medicine will make it difficult to come back and practice in Canada). Going to the US to study medicine (MD or DO it is easier to come back to Canada and work.)

One example... I am going to www.une.edu, when I am done I will get licensed in the state of Maine. Maine and New Brunswick have an agreement for health care workers, therefore I can go to NB and without taking any exams at all, I can get a license to practice in the province of NB. This is not the same everywhere in Canada. If I want to work in Ontario or BC, I will have to write the Canadian licensing exams as those writen by Canadian medical students.

If I finish medical school (DO) and want to do residency in Canada.
For Ontario, I can match (means apply for training) in family practice (without any problems). For other provinces and Ontario I can match for other specialties, but only the second round of selections. Basicly for the spaces that are left.

I believe that (someone please do correct me) if I have completed my residency in the US in (Internal Medicine, FP, ER, or pediatrics) I can come back and request equivalance and the provinces will accept that and alow me to work in my field.

I will check if there is a DO in the lower mainland. But I don't think there is. There are only about 10 practicing DOs in Canada. The closest to you would be Victoria. But that is not that far, if you really like the DO phil and would like to pursue it further then you can go there for a day.

The stats for admissions are about 3.5 and 25 or 26 MCAT.
But these can be lower or higher depending on your application package.

 

[docbill]

oh yes one more thing,
I'm currently at UBC right now (not sure if that matters or not), I just read the thread below mine about going from canada -> australia/carribean -> USA -> Canada

i'm just wondering if those 'out-of-country' schools will accept people with a degree in nursing.. because I know up here at UBC all we need are the pre-req's, and we could get into med even with a major in music.. do these schools accept 3rd year applicants without a degree? and how long would the entire process take??
i'm guessing 4 years to get a MD/DO in a carib. school, then another 2-3 year residency in the states??

All MD or DO schools in Canada and US accept any degrees. But you must have pre-req. Almost all accept applicant from 3rd year students. But most wont accept a lot of people without a BA or a BSc.

To get a medical degree (MD or DO) in the US it is the same as in Canada.
2 year in class courses, 2 year clinical rotations in hospital/medical centre.
Then anywhere between 3 to 6 years training for specialization (Family practice, surgery, etc...) But you get payed durring your speciality training.

RE: DO program, there is something I would like to add. The DO route should not be a backup for people who don't get accepted in to MD schools. More so an alternative way of becoming a physcian. The training is identical, BUT the philosophy and approach is different. YOu should assure you agree with these philosophies and that you are willing to learn OMT. Otherwise you should stick to MD route.

PSS. YOu mentioned the Carib school. DO schools are not the same as Carib schools. If you go to Carib you can not come back and practice in CANADA. Just be clear about that.

 

[Shinken]

If you go to Carib you can not come back and practice in CANADA. Just be clear about that.

Are you sure? I thought that the Caribbean was the most viable route for Canadians that couldn't gain admission to med schools in Canada or the US. Just wondering.

Also, to the OP, you can download a document here http://www.aacom.org/data/annualreport/index.html that gives you statistics on everything you might want to know about osteopathic medical education. Good luck.

 

[docbill]

Are you sure? I thought that the Caribbean was the most viable route for Canadians that couldn't gain admission to med schools in Canada or the US. Just wondering.

Also, to the OP, you can download a document here http://www.aacom.org/data/annualreport/index.html that gives you statistics on everything you might want to know about osteopathic medical education. Good luck.

Yeah that is true shinken,

Most viable to becoming a physician. Cause getting into Canadian or US medical schools are prob equally as hard. So people go to SGU or Ross... but they end up doing residency in the US and if lucky to marry US citizen, they stay in the states.

I will try to find more info.
BA

 

[docbill]

Hi again,

Someone PM me with questions, and I though to post some of what I wrote back. Please do add to it or comment, or ask more questions.

1. Being an older applicant/ 2nd degree (MSc etc.. ) will help you with applying to DO schools in the US. The adcoms are really looking for life exprience, compation, drive. Not just GRADES AND MCAT. I believe the average GPA is 3.45 to 3.50 and MCAT is about 25-26.

2. Taking the DO route, one will end up being a Physician, with the exact training, plus OMT. This is the art of manipulating the body in order to reduce muscular tention and stress, which may be disrupting the body's natural function and causing systemic problems(physiotherapy in a way)For example: blood/lymphatic system flow/Inflammation or stimulation of nervous system (back/joint pain).

3. You will be able to come back and work in most of Canada. For details go to this SDN linked and open PDF or scroll down till you find Canada (also describes international practice rights). Regulations for returning to Canada are becoming easier every year.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=107627

4. Of course not all is too good to be true. The DO profession (Osteopathic Medicine) is a branch of traditional medicine (AKA MD). About 130 year ago it was created when doctors knew little if anything about medications and treating people. Since patients where dying... Dr.Still decided that there must be a better way. But over the last 130 years it evolved to something very similar to MD degree training and fought for the same previlages and practice rights.... and this was achieved in all of the US.

The DO philosophy is aimed more to prevention and whole body approach to healing. Mostly important in diagnosis and prevention. READ MORE DETAILS ON PHIL TOO MUCH TO INCLUDE HERE.

SO THE NEGATIVE:
-You will always have to explain to people what DO is.

-You may have to deal with some MDs looking down on DOs. There are usually older professionals/ or people afraid of loosing their GOD status to another degree. You only have to set a good example to a few MDs to prove that you are as good as they are. Once that is done, the differences will disipear.

-You will have to do more exams to get licensed. For example, to keep the residency options open. FYI, when one graduates from 4 year US DO program, they enter residency as MDs do. Two options, special DO residency AOA run, or the exact same residency as MD graduates. Run by ACGME/AMA. So you will train along side MD graduates. Generaly speaking, there are some acception to the following.

a) For AOA residency must write the COMLEX (n=3) (AKA DO exams).
MUST DO AS A DO STUDENT and include OMT portion.

b) For AMA (AKA MD) residency you must do USMLEs (n=3) (all MD student in the US have to do these).

c) To come back and work in Canada. One will have to do the Canadian Licensing exams LMCCs (n=3)

Let me know if this helps. Also make sure you do more reading on the profession to assure it is something you agree with. Not just because you want to be a doctor. Keep questions coming and look up more info. Even if you decide to do something else, in the future you will run into someone who is a DO, and you will know about it and not be judgemental of the unknown.

 

[Ponyboy]

Graduates of DO schools are required to sit for the Evaluating Exam by the Medical Council of Canada, an exam that is only written by foreign medical graudates (and DO's). Graduates of US MD schools and Canadian MD schools are required only to write the Qualifying Exams (Part 1 & 2, which gives the title LMCC). So this is an extra step that DO's will have to complete.

To get a medical license in a province in Canada, each province has it's own requirements which can range from having completed the LMCC's (see above) alone to completing the LMCC's as well as passing the Royal College Exams. If you finish a residency in the US, you have to ask the Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons of Canada to evaluate your residency training and determine your eligibility to write the Royal College Exams. Most residncy programs in the USA are shorter than their Canadian counterpart. IM and Peds are both four years in Canada and three years in the US. Emerg is five years in Canada and three to four years in the US (Family docs can practice ED in Canada through the College of Family Physician of Canada route but this is not open to US trained ED docs). For this reason, if you finish a peds, IM or ED residency in the US, you will need to find an extra year or two (and you'll also need to make sure that the extra years meet the Royal College requirements in terms of individual rotations) to even apply to write the Royal College exams.

If you think that you can simply apply for a residency position in Canada, be wary. there is currently an almost 1:1 ratio of Canadian med students to residency positions, making competition for both specialty and family medicine positions fierce. Currently, FMG's (which may include DO's) have a match rate of about 13% in the second round.

The road back to Canada once you leave is a long and complicated one.

-a Canadian who realizes that he should have never left Canada

 

[docbill]

Graduates of DO schools are required to sit for the Evaluating Exam by the Medical Council of Canada, an exam that is only written by foreign medical graudates (and DO's). Graduates of US MD schools and Canadian MD schools are required only to write the Qualifying Exams (Part 1 & 2, which gives the title LMCC). So this is an extra step that DO's will have to complete.

To get a medical license in a province in Canada, each province has it's own requirements which can range from having completed the LMCC's (see above) alone to completing the LMCC's as well as passing the Royal College Exams. If you finish a residency in the US, you have to ask the Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons of Canada to evaluate your residency training and determine your eligibility to write the Royal College Exams. Most residncy programs in the USA are shorter than their Canadian counterpart. IM and Peds are both four years in Canada and three years in the US. Emerg is five years in Canada and three to four years in the US (Family docs can practice ED in Canada through the College of Family Physician of Canada route but this is not open to US trained ED docs). For this reason, if you finish a peds, IM or ED residency in the US, you will need to find an extra year or two (and you'll also need to make sure that the extra years meet the Royal College requirements in terms of individual rotations) to even apply to write the Royal College exams.

If you think that you can simply apply for a residency position in Canada, be wary. there is currently an almost 1:1 ratio of Canadian med students to residency positions, making competition for both specialty and family medicine positions fierce. Currently, FMG's (which may include DO's) have a match rate of about 13% in the second round.

The road back to Canada once you leave is a long and complicated one.

-a Canadian who realizes that he should have never left Canada

Good post
BTW where did you go study? DO or MD route? Do you have any personal comments /exposure to DO graduates/training... positive or negative.

Isn't the LMCC #3 exactly the same as what is included on COMLEX and the new USMLE portion? I thought that is what I was told. It should be no problem for DO graduates to pass this, since it is done durring the COMLEX.

True about each province having own requirements. See link to licensing.
Time of residency is the same problem that MD students face as well. Isn't that the case? Either way I should add that make sure you do a AMA/ACGME residency and not AOA residency. In the future for speciality Some provinces will not accept AOA residency.

Some things that are not fully legal yet, but are heading in that direction /being finalized.

Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons will soon recognize DO specialist. One person is doing a fellowship at UWO. I believe it was Orthop surg. You will still have to follow exam regulations, but it will be exactly the same as US MD.

There may be some additional regulations for specialists. Like practicing in underserved area. AKA, southeastern ontario is underserved, some areas in the lower mainland would be considered underserved.

I know a DO working in Ontario as an chief of ER. He did IM in chicago. So it is possible to become an ER doc.

RE: CARMS. US DO graduates can match in FP (1st round in Ontario).
2nd round in almost all provinces. Yes it is competitive since you are going second round and the residency spots are not opening up.

 

[Shinken]

Yeah that is true shinken,

Most viable to becoming a physician. Cause getting into Canadian or US medical schools are prob equally as hard. So people go to SGU or Ross... but they end up doing residency in the US and if lucky to marry US citizen, they stay in the states.

Oh, that's right. I remember now. You can become a physician but you have trouble practicing in Canada. That sucks. It amazes me how few med schools are in Canada for the size of the country.

 

[Ponyboy]

Good post
BTW where did you go study? DO or MD route? Do you have any personal comments /exposure to DO graduates/training... positive or negative.

Isn't the LMCC #3 exactly the same as what is included on COMLEX and the new USMLE portion? I thought that is what I was told. It should be no problem for DO graduates to pass this, since it is done durring the COMLEX.

Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons will soon recognize DO specialist. One person is doing a fellowship at UWO. I believe it was Orthop surg. You will still have to follow exam regulations, but it will be exactly the same as US MD.

I know a DO working in Ontario as an chief of ER. He did IM in chicago. So it is possible to become an ER doc.

RE: CARMS. US DO graduates can match in FP (1st round in Ontario).
2nd round in almost all provinces. Yes it is competitive since you are going second round and the residency spots are not opening up.

I did med school in Canada and am finishing residency in the USA. In general, I found the medical education system to be inferior in the USA. Trainees are given fewer responsibilities and autonomy, there are more medico-legal restricitons on physicians, the emphasis on scutwork vs education is greater, and more tiime is spent on peperwork vs. clinical medicine.

I have no experience with the clinical skills part of the USMLE/COMLEX. From what I've heard about those exams, the LMCC part 2 will have shorter, more concise interactions (5 or 10 minutes) compared to the US exams. The content may be different as the LMCC's will demand the clinical skills of a second year resident compared with that of a third year medical student. Canadian students are usually well prepared for this exam as they have been doing short (5-8 minute) OSCE's for their entire third and fourth year and are used to this type of format (as opposed to the longer US exams).

My original post was not to illustrate that it would be more difficult for a DO to move back to Canada compared to a US MD but simply that it is complicated and frustrating trying to go back to Canada once you leave for medical training. There are many people who have trained in the US and then moved back to Canada but this is a new era where the Royal College is stricter (the pass rate for some US MD's in certain specialties is essentially 0%), med school spots in Canada are increasing without increasing residency spots (it's hard enough trying to get a spot as a Canadian MD, how much harder do you think it's going to be with a degree residency directors haven't even heard of?) , and medical education in the USA is declining in comparison to that of Canada (see above). If you want to move to the USA for training, go ahead but realize that this is one Canadian who would have stayed in Canada if given that choice again (and I have classmates who would do the same).

 

[docbill]

I did med school in Canada and am finishing residency in the USA. In general, I found the medical education system to be inferior in the USA. Trainees are given fewer responsibilities and autonomy, there are more medico-legal restricitons on physicians, the emphasis on scutwork vs education is greater, and more tiime is spent on peperwork vs. clinical medicine.

I have no experience with the clinical skills part of the USMLE/COMLEX. From what I've heard about those exams, the LMCC part 2 will have shorter, more concise interactions (5 or 10 minutes) compared to the US exams. The content may be different as the LMCC's will demand the clinical skills of a second year resident compared with that of a third year medical student. Canadian students are usually well prepared for this exam as they have been doing short (5-8 minute) OSCE's for their entire third and fourth year and are used to this type of format (as opposed to the longer US exams).

My original post was not to illustrate that it would be more difficult for a DO to move back to Canada compared to a US MD but simply that it is complicated and frustrating trying to go back to Canada once you leave for medical training. There are many people who have trained in the US and then moved back to Canada but this is a new era where the Royal College is stricter (the pass rate for some US MD's in certain specialties is essentially 0%), med school spots in Canada are increasing without increasing residency spots (it's hard enough trying to get a spot as a Canadian MD, how much harder do you think it's going to be with a degree residency directors haven't even heard of?) , and medical education in the USA is declining in comparison to that of Canada (see above). If you want to move to the USA for training, go ahead but realize that this is one Canadian who would have stayed in Canada if given that choice again (and I have classmates who would do the same).

Thanks for the excellent response. Your experience is helpful for all of us who are thinking of going south. These are things that no one will tell you... especially not the CMA.

I do agree 100%, It is always better to stay and study where one wishes to work. Unfortunatly the situation is doesn't allow for this. Most of us will try to stay here. I would do anything for this option.

BA

 

[PACtoDOC]

I did med school in Canada and am finishing residency in the USA. In general, I found the medical education system to be inferior in the USA. .

Oh yes, I certainly plan on heading to Toronto when I need my rare cancer diagnosed, or when my family member needs some sort of transplant. In fact, I have heard it rumored that MD Anderson cancer treatment center is relocating to rural Tundra, Canada due to the unique nature of medical research occuring there.

 

[docbill]

Oh yes, I certainly plan on heading to Toronto when I need my rare cancer diagnosed, or when my family member needs some sort of transplant. In fact, I have heard it rumored that MD Anderson cancer treatment center is relocating to rural Tundra, Canada due to the unique nature of medical research occuring there.

PACtoDOC, are you being sarcastic or what?

What have you been sniffing? You should give that stuff up?

Toronto does have excellent research being done... but patient cancer care, lots of waiting period and limited cancel therapy. Please leave MD anderson center in Houston.

 

[Ponyboy]

Oh yes, I certainly plan on heading to Toronto when I need my rare cancer diagnosed, or when my family member needs some sort of transplant. In fact, I have heard it rumored that MD Anderson cancer treatment center is relocating to rural Tundra, Canada due to the unique nature of medical research occuring there.

In my first month as an intern, we had a child with a rare genetic neuromuscular disorder. There is only one place to send the genetic test, Montreal Neurological Institute. That's right, not one center in all of the USA could confirm the diagnosis. And speaking of transplants, wasn't it Toronto that pioneered unmatched infant heart and other solid organ transplants?

You're kidding yourself if you think that medical care is so much better in the US than elsewhere. It may be slightly more technologically advanced but when it comes down to learning bread-and-butter medicine, the US falls behind many other countries. US trainees are stuck doing paperwork, being scutmonkeys for their attendings and arguing over protocols while their international counterparts are actually taking care of their patients. Sure, these trainees may not get to take care of practically brain dead patients who are still alive simply because we can keep them alive or multiple organ transplant patients who suffer for years and years but they are learning to take care of the other 99% of the patient population with greater autonomy and independence than you or I ever will.

BTW, how many hot shot hospitals are associated (and I mean REALLY associated) with UNTHSC?
Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[docbill]

And speaking of transplants, wasn't it Toronto that pioneered unmatched infant heart and other solid organ transplants?

Sickkids hospital in Toronto.

There are many more example of great research/discovery being done in Toronto. Heck I know I am right at the middle of it. heheeh

Plus I agree with the rest of your post.
BA

 

[PACtoDOC]

In my first month as an intern, we had a child with a rare genetic neuromuscular disorder. There is only one place to send the genetic test, Montreal Neurological Institute. That's right, not one center in all of the USA could confirm the diagnosis. And speaking of transplants, wasn't it Toronto that pioneered unmatched infant heart and other solid organ transplants?

You're kidding yourself if you think that medical care is so much better in the US than elsewhere. It may be slightly more technologically advanced but when it comes down to learning bread-and-butter medicine, the US falls behind many other countries. US trainees are stuck doing paperwork, being scutmonkeys for their attendings and arguing over protocols while their international counterparts are actually taking care of their patients. Sure, these trainees may not get to take care of practically brain dead patients who are still alive simply because we can keep them alive or multiple organ transplant patients who suffer for years and years but they are learning to take care of the other 99% of the patient population with greater autonomy and independence than you or I ever will.

BTW, how many hot shot hospitals are associated (and I mean REALLY associated) with UNTHSC?
Pot. Kettle. Black.

Please don't expect that you would come on here and shout that our American medical system is inferior to Canadian medicine, without having it shoved back at you. People from all over the world come to the US to receive care that is progressive and state of the art. That is the bottom line. And that is just on the civilian side of the house. Our military has the most advanced medical care system of any in the world. I am not even sure if Canada has a military. They just sit around waiting for us to defend them if anything ever happens. And have you ever heard of John Peter Smith hospital? It is now the primary teaching hospital for UNTHSC-TCOM, and it is about a 5 minute jog down the street! It is one of the premier county hospitals in the south, similar to Charity in New Orleans and Cook County up North. And that is only one premier institution that we rotate at. Evidently they are doing something right here at UNTHSC, as most of the people I know blew away the allopathic mean on the USMLE, and we routinely match grads now at Hopkins, Duke, UTSW, Charity, Dartmouth, Brown, UC-Davis, Mayo, etc.. This is not about my school, or my devotion to it though. It is about your attack on US medicine. I suggest you stay in Canada and practice there for peanuts if you are so inclined. You just are not going to get away with coming on here and saying that US medicine is inferior to anyone elses.

 

[docbill]

Please don't expect that you would come on here and shout that our American.... You just are not going to get away with coming on here and saying that US medicine is inferior to anyone elses.

This is really not necessary. This thread was opened for people asking about the DO degree. It is best not to get in to this argument/ yelling match over here.

I believe that most Canadians have no objections to working/living next to the US. We eat, talk, etc... the same thing. Canada - US has a close relationship don't forget that. Sometimes people forget about the long history and friendship between the two nations. Where is all this anti-Canadian sentiment coming from? how is the US media reporting Canada?

If you really need a to be told, then YES. USA is superior to Canada. Your army is our protector and we need you badly. We depend on your economy... and hell yeahhhh your MEDICAL ADVANCEMENT/Capabilities are superior to ours and IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. WE ARE NOTHING WITH OUT YOU.

Happy.. can you sleep better... now lets knock off this discusion.

 

[Shinken]

I find this double standard quite amusing (and annoying sometimes).

When an allopathic student defends his degree, he's doing just that: defending his degree.

When an osteopathic student defends his degree, he has an inferiority complex and has the need to justify his education.

I'm of the opinion that Canadian medicine is on equal footing to American medicine, and in some respects superior (*cough* medical care for everyone *cough*).

 

[Ponyboy]

Please don't expect that you would come on here and shout that our American medical system is inferior to Canadian medicine, without having it shoved back at you. People from all over the world come to the US to receive care that is progressive and state of the art. That is the bottom line. And that is just on the civilian side of the house. Our military has the most advanced medical care system of any in the world. I am not even sure if Canada has a military. They just sit around waiting for us to defend them if anything ever happens. And have you ever heard of John Peter Smith hospital? It is now the primary teaching hospital for UNTHSC-TCOM, and it is about a 5 minute jog down the street! It is one of the premier county hospitals in the south, similar to Charity in New Orleans and Cook County up North. And that is only one premier institution that we rotate at. Evidently they are doing something right here at UNTHSC, as most of the people I know blew away the allopathic mean on the USMLE, and we routinely match grads now at Hopkins, Duke, UTSW, Charity, Dartmouth, Brown, UC-Davis, Mayo, etc.. This is not about my school, or my devotion to it though. It is about your attack on US medicine. I suggest you stay in Canada and practice there for peanuts if you are so inclined. You just are not going to get away with coming on here and saying that US medicine is inferior to anyone elses.

Read my last two posts very carefully. They both make statements regarding the medical EDUCATION system in the US and in Canada. Not care, not technological advances, not research, EDUCATION. As someone who's actually experienced both education systems; I, unlike yourself, am actually qualified to make a judgement between the two systems. I'm currently training in a major pediatric hospital in the US, why would I want to believe that the training I'm getting is inferior to what I could have gotten back in Canada? Why would anyone voluntarily say that they're getting a sub-par education? I would love to say that I'm getting the best training in the world. I would love to say that I have learned more, done more and am more comfortable with many aspects of medicine than anyone else who has trained elsewhere. But that would be a lie.

It's true, the US is one of the most technologically advanced medical system in the world but to think that the only medical advancements are made in the USA is ridiculous. Many advancements in medical science have been made off American soil

And just because we can do something, it doesn't mean it's a good idea. So we decide to tranplant somebody's bowel into someone else and set them up for episodes of PTLD, GVHD, TPN cholestasis, liver failure, coagulopathies, and months (or even entire lives) spent in hospital (all at taxpayer's expense) before the poor child finally dies after being subjected to what no human should have to experience. Isn't it great what the good old American medical system can do?!?

BTW, I have heard of JPS and I would definitely not put it in the same category as Cook and Charity. You've got to be kidding...

Enough, I'm not going to argue with a third year medical student about something that he knows nothing about.

 

[docbill]

Ponyboy, did you get my PM?
Let me know either way.