D.O. derm at Mayo

[javandane]

seems as though the elusive world of allopathic dermatology isn't completely closed to us lowly osteopaths. . . .

http://www.mayoclinic.org/dermatology-rst/11980770.html

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[bobg504]

seems as though the elusive world of allopathic dermatology isn't completely closed to us lowly osteopaths. . . .

http://www.mayoclinic.org/dermatology-rst/11980770.html

Mayo is a very progressive institution. They place more emphasis on Academic Excellence and Research and focus less on what degree you have. I am a DO student and I did research there last summer and will be doing a Clinical Research Fellowship after my third year. I encountered no discrimination at Mayo

 

[corpsmanUP]

Mayo is a very progressive institution. They place more emphasis on Academic Excellence and Research and focus less on what degree you have. I am a DO student and I did research there last summer and will be doing a Clinical Research Fellowship after my third year. I encountered no discrimination at Mayo

I agree wholeheartedly about Mayo. It is a really interesting place in that it has a great big checkbook, but it seems to still be more interested in patient care than the bottom line. And it seems to attract a very eclectic crowd of physicians. It is very high on my list to do my emergency medicine residency. I am a DO, but I felt no discrimination at all. They told me that I was there because my application and stats were as good as anyone else the interviewed, and the DO thing did not make any difference. I loved the city and the people and I would love for my kids to go to school there. To get into Mayo in any program, you simply need to exceed their expectations for applicants. I was a little worried about being a DO and getting ranked, but I talked with the department there and they gave me the indication that they could have had DO's but that evidently the DO's chose to rank other programs more highly.

 

[waverider]

seems as though the elusive world of allopathic dermatology isn't completely closed to us lowly osteopaths. . . .

http://www.mayoclinic.org/dermatology-rst/11980770.html

Wow, great info to know...I am a DO student interested in an allopathic derm residency and I actually was searching the different allopathic derm residencies to see if they even had a DO on staff, let alone a DO as a resident. My spirit is boosted! Thanks!

 

[ambernikel]

I'm just getting started at a DO school in August. Some of my friends are in dermatology (cosmetic and general). So they've really talked it up to me and I'm really interested in it. Of course, it is still a little early in the game for me. But just in preparation and looking toward my clinical years, what can I do now and in my first two years to be competitive at a place like Mayo? (I've always wanted to go to Mayo). Obviously make good grades or high board scores. But beyond that, any advice?

 

[doclm]

From my two years working as a Medical Technologist at Mayo, I would highly recommend DO's applying to their programs. Mayo is very liberal when is comes to the initials after your name. Although most have MD's, you see a lot of MBBS, MCh MBBS, (for the oversea's docs), and some DO's. From talking to many MD's and residency recruiters (Anestesia) , a DO is looked at the same as any other doctor. What matters the most to Mayo is your Scores, GPA, some research helps and a special dedication to putting 110% on patient care. Mayo has a unique philosophy that has made it a very successful medical center. The idea is to use a blend of the newest technology/ research with the most emphasis put onto patient care ( "putting the patient first") After talking with a DO who is an infectious disease specialist and a professor at the Mayo medical school, I believe that the Mayo Philosophy is more like an Osteopathic philosophy (putting emphasis on the patient as a whole) than other Allopathic beliefs. He actually published this paper on comparing the Mayo Brothers belief and Osteopathic medicine.

Most of the DO's are in family medicine and internal medicine, however I am starting to see more DO's in the Anesthesia residency program. My brother in law, who is one of the residency program directors, told me that a DO would have no problem in getting a Anesthesia residency as long as scholar marks and board scores are competitive. Some of the schools that a lot of the DO's come from: KCUMB, DMU, PCOM, CCOM, and Oklahoma.

 

[tripleJ]

Not to rain on your parade, but you should concentrate your efforts on the DO programs. You literally have a better chance on being on the next space shuttle than going to mayo, penn, ucsf, etc. for derm. Unfortunately, a DO will never, never, never, never get a derm spot at a TOP allopathic program. Sorry. Look for the "pub50 dermboard" derm forum; there are links to the past few years matchlists.

 

[misparas]

a DO will never, never, never, never get a derm spot at a TOP allopathic program.

I'll take your advise and never, never, never, never apply. Thanks.
It is interesting that the Mayo clinic has a D.O. derm faculty member in their program. Never, never, never, never, never, never, never...... right.

 

[tripleJ]

I'm just saying look into what you are talking about before you sound foolish during your rotations (which are 3 years away for you) and not take career advice from friends, family, and pre-meds. I know when starting school you have bought the philosophy and believe you can specialize in anything ANYWHERE you want but it is not true. I was there myself. If you truly wanted derm start your first year getting to know and possibly work with the program directors of the DO programs, because if they don't know you personally- you have no shot. I have seen students dismiss the DO programs because "it's possible to get the competitive allopathic spot" only to come around the next year "suddenly interested" in the DO programs. Nothing looks worse and now they are years behind thier peers

 

[giznut12]

Maybe if the DO derm programs would link their programs, more of the top applicants would apply instead of applying to the allopathic programs. That is rediculous the way it is set up...apply during intern year just so the programs can fill their internship spots, then all of the interns compete against each other...as if internship is not already hard enough.

 

[misparas]

I'm just saying look into what you are talking about before you sound foolish during your rotations (which are 3 years away for you) and not take career advice from friends, family, and pre-meds. I know when starting school you have bought the philosophy and believe you can specialize in anything ANYWHERE you want but it is not true. I was there myself. If you truly wanted derm start your first year getting to know and possibly work with the program directors of the DO programs, because if they don't know you personally- you have no shot. I have seen students dismiss the DO programs because "it's possible to get the competitive allopathic spot" only to come around the next year "suddenly interested" in the DO programs. Nothing looks worse and now they are years behind thier peers

I know what you're saying. D.O. students need to look at the D.O. programs as their main "in" for competative residencies. But never say never.

 

[doclm]

I'll take your advise and never, never, never, never apply. Thanks.
It is interesting that the Mayo clinic has a D.O. derm faculty member in their program. Never, never, never, never, never, never, never...... right.

In reality, if you have good board scores, grades and extra's, Mayo will probably take you before other competitive allopathic programs. Trust me, they don't discriminate much about what doctor initials you have. Mayo is notorious for taking on foriegn grads, because they are so liberal. They like diversity, so they may be more likely to take on DO's. Also, I know for a fact DMU grads are looked at in a good light up here.

There has been docs here from the carribean schools, Ireland, and Europe. I talked to a guy doing a residency in peds from St. Christophers in England.

If you are determined to come up here I would also try to find some contacts from looking up Docs in the area you want to go into.

 

[misparas]

Also, I know for a fact DMU grads are looked at in a good light up here.

Good to know! Thanks.

 

[Koko]

Mayo is notorious for taking on foriegn grads, because they are so liberal. They like diversity, so they may be more likely to take on DO's.

My understanding is that Mayo takes top international grads, not FMGs. Can't comment on the DO question.

 

[drusso]

Mayo is notorious for taking on foriegn grads, because they are so liberal.

"Liberal" and "Mayo" are two words that I don't associate closely in my mind. I find the overall atmosphere here very conservative and formal: Suits and ties every day; a very upscale and sometimes entitled patient population; and an organizational culture that views change somewhat skeptically (ie there is the "right way" the "wrong way" and the "Mayo Way"). I think that conservatives would be much comfortable in this environment.

 

[bobg504]

"Liberal" and "Mayo" are two words that I don't associate closely in my mind. I find the overall atmosphere here very conservative and formal: Suits and ties every day; a very upscale and sometimes entitled patient population; and an organizational culture that views change somewhat skeptically (ie there is the "right way" the "wrong way" and the "Mayo Way"). I think that conservatives would be much comfortable in this environment.

I totally agree with you Drusso! When I did my research fellowship I became well aware of the "Mayo Way" By the way Drusso, I met the PD (Dr. Moutvic) of the PM&R Dept. She was very nice! Mayo is an awesome place to train. I will be doing the CRTP there.

 

[doclm]

My understanding is that Mayo takes top international grads, not FMGs. Can't comment on the DO question.

Ok, what is your definition of a top international grad? What characteristics do they all have in common?

 

[doclm]

"Liberal" and "Mayo" are two words that I don't associate closely in my mind. I find the overall atmosphere here very conservative and formal: Suits and ties every day; a very upscale and sometimes entitled patient population; and an organizational culture that views change somewhat skeptically (ie there is the "right way" the "wrong way" and the "Mayo Way"). I think that conservatives would be much comfortable in this environment.

Possibly that was not the correct word to use, Mayo is very conservative with high expectations put onto us, serving a diverse group of patients.
But realize that the "Mayo Way" is very open minded, especially to those with really good stats.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Ok, what is your definition of a top international grad? What characteristics do they all have in common?

I know a guy from Oxford who did his intern year at Mayo, did ophtho residency, and is now a fellow in vitreo-retinal surgery at Baylor.

The guy is absolutely brilliant. Scored in the 99th percentile consecutively on the annual ophtho boards! Now that's what I call a top international grad...

 

[Koko]

Ok, what is your definition of a top international grad? What characteristics do they all have in common?

The Mayo residents that I've come across who graduated from medical school overseas were foreign nationals who not only excelled academically, but had some impressive experiences outside of school. They were not American students who were unable to gain admission to a U.S. medical school and therefore went the FMG route. Mayo is a special place, and the people are a major part of that.

 

[Derek]

Not to rain on your parade, but you should concentrate your efforts on the DO programs. You literally have a better chance on being on the next space shuttle than going to mayo, penn, ucsf, etc. for derm. Unfortunately, a DO will never, never, never, never get a derm spot at a TOP allopathic program. Sorry. Look for the "pub50 dermboard" derm forum; there are links to the past few years matchlists.

You are wrong . I have a classmate from AZCOM who matched in Derm at The Cleveland Clinic and is currently a second year derm resident there.

 

[tripleJ]

cleveland clinic is not in the same tier as mayo or the others in my post

 

[porokeratosis]

cleveland clinic is not in the same tier as mayo or the others in my post

I second that! Cleveland Clinic is not in the same caliber as Mayo, Harvard, NYU, etc...

But then again, just getting accepted into a Derm residency program is a major accomplishment and you should be thanking God and your lucky stars

 

[novacek88]

Honestly, Triple J is right. You should look at DO programs. DO derm programs don't exclude people simply based on numbers the way allopathic programs do. The good ole boy system is very much a part of the DO derm process. You don't have to be in the top 10 percent of your class or have flawless board scores to get into DO derm. I personally know someone who got into a combined program that didn't have either top grades or test scores. You can still get into derm at the osteopathic level if you network with the right people and do appropriate research. What you will find is that most top osteopathic students don't have the patience or willingness to take a risk by waiting to apply to derm during their intern year. I know a lot of people who considered derm but then "settled" on the guarnteed orthopedic surgery residency or allopathic radiology positions they knew they could likely get.

 

[novacek88]

cleveland clinic is not in the same tier as mayo or the others in my post

U.S. News and World Report ranked the Cleveland Clinic the 4th best hospital in the country. To suggest that it isn't in the same calibre as the others you mentioned is assinine.

 

[porokeratosis]

U.S. News and World Report ranked the Cleveland Clinic the 4th best hospital in the country. To suggest that it isn't in the same calibre as the others you mentioned is assinine.

Yes, in other fields, such as cancer and cardiology, Cleveland Clinic is a great institution.

BUT IN THE FIELD OF DERM, CLEVELAND CLINIC IS NOT IN THE SAME CALIBER AS HARVARD, MAYO, AND NYU! EVEN IN THE CITY OF CLEVELAND, CLEVELAND CLINIC IS NOT THE BEST IN DERM (CASE WESTERN IS MUCH BETTER).

 

[novacek88]

BUT IN THE FIELD OF DERM, CLEVELAND CLINIC IS NOT IN THE SAME CALIBER AS HARVARD, MAYO, AND NYU! EVEN IN THE CITY OF CLEVELAND, CLEVELAND CLINIC IS NOT THE BEST IN DERM (CASE WESTERN IS MUCH BETTER).

And what are you basing this on, the amount of NIH funds awarded to the program. Well if that's the case, Harvard wasn't even in the top 30. The Cleveland Clinic wasn't ranked but then neither was Wash. U which is supposedly a far better program according to our author Mr. TipleJ. And Thomas Jefferson Medical College was ranked 5th so I'm sure it's derm department is far more prestigious than Harvard's in your eyes.



Let's not lose sight of the argument. U.S. News doesn't rank dermatology programs. And many times, selectivity is based on subjective criteria as opposed to concrete funding dollars. The Cleveland Clinic was ranked 4th overall and is a top 5-10 hospital on an annual basis. Many top candidates would prefer to study at the Cleveland Clinic versus Thomas Jefferson or the University of Utah despite the latter programs being better funded. As with Harvard, the Cleveland Clinic carries with it a name, something even Case Western lacks despite its funding. So for a DO to match at the Cleveland Clinic in dermatology is a huge accomplishment let alone matching at any allopathic program. Trying to downplay that just to make a point is rather silly.

 

[TAbrown]

Nicely Stated!

And what are you basing this on, the amount of NIH funds awarded to the program. Well if that's the case, Harvard wasn't even in the top 30. The Cleveland Clinic wasn't ranked but then neither was Wash. U which is supposedly a far better program according to our author Mr. TipleJ. And Thomas Jefferson Medical College was ranked 5th so I'm sure it's derm department is far more prestigious than Harvard's in your eyes.



Let's not lose sight of the argument. U.S. News doesn't rank dermatology programs. And many times, selectivity is based on subjective criteria as opposed to concrete funding dollars. The Cleveland Clinic was ranked 4th overall and is a top 5-10 hospital on an annual basis. Many top candidates would prefer to study at the Cleveland Clinic versus Thomas Jefferson or the University of Utah despite the latter programs being better funded. As with Harvard, the Cleveland Clinic carries with it a name, something even Case Western lacks despite its funding. So for a DO to match at the Cleveland Clinic in dermatology is a huge accomplishment let alone matching at any allopathic program. Trying to downplay that just to make a point is rather silly.

 

[PublicHealth]

And what are you basing this on, the amount of NIH funds awarded to the program. Well if that's the case, Harvard wasn't even in the top 30. The Cleveland Clinic wasn't ranked but then neither was Wash. U which is supposedly a far better program according to our author Mr. TipleJ. And Thomas Jefferson Medical College was ranked 5th so I'm sure it's derm department is far more prestigious than Harvard's in your eyes.



Let's not lose sight of the argument. U.S. News doesn't rank dermatology programs. And many times, selectivity is based on subjective criteria as opposed to concrete funding dollars. The Cleveland Clinic was ranked 4th overall and is a top 5-10 hospital on an annual basis. Many top candidates would prefer to study at the Cleveland Clinic versus Thomas Jefferson or the University of Utah despite the latter programs being better funded. As with Harvard, the Cleveland Clinic carries with it a name, something even Case Western lacks despite its funding. So for a DO to match at the Cleveland Clinic in dermatology is a huge accomplishment let alone matching at any allopathic program. Trying to downplay that just to make a point is rather silly.

Oh, go pop a boil.