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DecisionsOPlenty

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Hi, So I wanted to start off with describing my position. I'm 18 and I'm currently doing the pre-reqs for a nursing career, a plan that I've had since I was 12. However, in the last year or so, I've gained interest in cardiothoracic surgery and neurosurgery. Due to this, I've considered abandoning my previous goal of ADN>BSN>MSN>CRNA by 27 for BSHS>MD>Intern>Resident>Fellow>Attending in either Cardio or Neuro. My biggest fear is GPA as while I have a passion for biological sciences and health related fields, my chemistry is poor and I know there is some involved in the medical route (more than in the nursing route). I know that I could make it as a nurse but I feel like I'd regret it later in life if I didn't take this oppurtunity and vice versa I'd feel like an idiot if I washed out as a doctor. What I'm basically asking for is some pro's and con's of each route and perhaps anecdotal evidence from other's who have chosen one route or the other and why. Thanks!

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Hello

As of right now your choice should be if you want to be a physician or a nurse. At the age of 18 without any exposure to the field you really cant actually say that you want to be a surgeon. There is chemistry involved in your premed curriculum consisting of about 2.5 years of chemistry, from gen chem to organic to biochemistry. I would not, however, feel discouraged by your preformance in high school chemistry. Ive seen people who have done super well in high school do poorly in college and vice versa. But the question you should ask yourself is, do I want to be a nurse or a physician, not do I want to be a CRNA or a cardioneurosurgeon
 
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Agree with the above, decide if you want to be a nurse or a physician. Looking into fields beyond and into specific specialties is pointless as there are far too many variables to make any sort of decision based on that.
 
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Hello

As of right now your choice should be if you want to be a physician or a nurse. At the age of 18 without any exposure to the field you really cant actually say that you want to be a surgeon. There is chemistry involved in your premed curriculum consisting of about 2.5 years of chemistry, from gen chem to organic to biochemistry. I would not, however, feel discouraged by your preformance in high school chemistry. Ive seen people who have done super well in high school do poorly in college and vice versa. But the question you should ask yourself is, do I want to be a nurse or a physician, not do I want to be a CRNA or a cardioneurosurgeon

Thanks for the response and I'll definitely take this into consideration. My experience with the fields is limited to relatives. Both my grandmother's were RN's, one of my Uncles is a flight nurse for the USAF, and another one of my uncles is a podiatrist with his own clinic. I guess my big thing, aside from the chemistry considering you noted the difference between HS Chem and College Chem performance, is that it's 6-8 years to making 180k and living a comfortable life, but possibly not feeling for fulfilled, or, I can choose to become a physician, take 12+ yrs and I know I'd be happy if I can make it.

I'd like to point out that I realize my post is talking about money because money is what is driving this decision. I know the medical/nursing field is my passion, now time and money make the big decisions.

Anyways, as previously stated, thanks for taking the time to comment.
 
Agree with the above, decide if you want to be a nurse or a physician. Looking into fields beyond and into specific specialties is pointless as there are far too many variables to make any sort of decision based on that.

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I'm definitely going to work this decision out first and I realize the futility of trying to assume my specialty as I'll get a feel for them all during rotations if I go the surgical route. I guess I was just trying to give an idea of where my interests lie.

I'm basically faced with Less time, Easier School, Less Money vs. More Time, More Schooling, More money.

DecisionsOPlenty
 
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Why does everyone suddenly decide they want to be a neurosurgeon, if I had a dollar for everytime i heard this, i could have enough money to retire.
 
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Which career could you see yourself truly happy in? I was in the same shoes as you, but the nursing route was being pushed on me because of my family. But I decided to "go against" them and become a premed. Just do what will make you happy in the long run. And don't take CRNA school so lightly, if you do research you'd know you need to go into a doctorate program and not a masters. They're trying to completely phase out master's programs for CRNAs
 
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I'm a nurse, applying to medical school. Been an RN for several years PM me. I can also get info from my friend who is a CRNA turned Anesthesiology resident.


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There is way more too it than that....
I apologize for the late response. I had a Chem test to get to and left this sitting idle. Could you explain some of the other factors, because that's all I'm seeing. That could, perhaps, be why the decision is hard to analyze, that being that I'm not seeing it from all the angles you are.
 
Why does everyone suddenly decide they want to be a neurosurgeon, if I had a dollar for everytime i heard this, i could have enough money to retire.

I just think the human brain is amazing and if my day consisted of tumor resections and cerebral hematomas, I'd be okay with that. Cardiology piqued my interest, but I can't explain why. Probably for a similar reason.
 
Which career could you see yourself truly happy in? I was in the same shoes as you, but the nursing route was being pushed on me because of my family. But I decided to "go against" them and become a premed. Just do what will make you happy in the long run. And don't take CRNA school so lightly, if you do research you'd know you need to go into a doctorate program and not a masters. They're trying to completely phase out master's programs for CRNAs

I wasn't aware of that but thanks for informing me! :) I'd be happy as a surgeon, once I made it there. I'd hate "trudging through the mud" of internship, residency, etc. but it's part of the journey. For CRNA, I'd be happy once I made it there, and it would take less time to get there. I guess I'm answering my own questions on what I should do, but for some odd reason, it's hard to let go of wanting to be a Surgeon even though I know better.
 
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I'm a nurse, applying to medical school. Been an RN for several years PM me. I can also get info from my friend who is a CRNA turned Anesthesiology resident.




Oh wow. That's amazing. I'm new, but once I figure out how to PM, I will most certainly do so. Thanks for the comment as well.
 
I did poorly in high school chem too and ended up doing well in and loving o chem and bio chem. DOnt let the preclude you on this career. Only you can decide what you wanna do OP, get healch care experience anyway you can get it and try 100% in your academics, the right path will unfold for you most likely. Good luck.
 
Honestly CRNA makes no sense time-wise.

4 years BSN + 2 years minimum ICU experience (1 before you can apply and another 1 while you are waiting to get in) + 3 years DNP (which btw you have to pay big buck for) = total of 9 years.

You might as well stick it out a bit more for MD.

Also, often times you can’t just get into ICU straight from RN school.
 
I did poorly in high school chem too and ended up doing well in and loving o chem and bio chem. DOnt let the preclude you on this career. Only you can decide what you wanna do OP, get healch care experience anyway you can get it and try 100% in your academics, the right path will unfold for you most likely. Good luck.

Thank you alot. I've been reading more forum posts and I've come to the conclusions that just because I did poorly in HS Chem doesn't determine my future in OChem or BioChem. I think it's just a little fear holding me back from taking the med path.
 
Honestly CRNA makes no sense time-wise.

4 years BSN + 2 years minimum ICU experience (1 before you can apply and another 1 while you are waiting to get in) + 3 years DNP (which btw you have to pay big buck for) = total of 9 years.

You might as well stick it out a bit more for MD.

Also, often times you can’t just get into ICU straight from RN school.

A very good point, one that I didn't consider. So, with that in mind, I should probably start looking at BSHS programs near me.
 
I apologize for the late response. I had a Chem test to get to and left this sitting idle. Could you explain some of the other factors, because that's all I'm seeing. That could, perhaps, be why the decision is hard to analyze, that being that I'm not seeing it from all the angles you are.

For starters, they are completely different jobs.

and if my day consisted of tumor resections and cerebral hematomas,

lol this is not what the majority of neurosurgeons do on a daily basis.
 
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For starters, they are completely different jobs.



lol this is not what the majority of neurosurgeons do on a daily basis.

That's deeply saddening. So what do they do? I was under the impression they did tumor resections, spinal surgery, etc on a daily basis.

And while it's true they are vastly different jobs, I was merely analyzing them from a standpoint of what I gained: How much free time would I have?, How much money would I make?, How much....?, etc.
 
I've recently gained an interest in being an eccentric billionaire or a world famous rock climber.

That seems to be all the craze these days :)

I realize that everyone (overexaggeration) wants to be someone who is rich and extraordinary. I'm just putting my goals out there and saying, I'm having trouble deciding if its worth giving it my all.
 
I'll PM you. I've got experience in Cardiothoracic Surgery and Neurosurgery both in ICU. So I'll give you the 411! And I'll give you a description of what I do as an RN, what the CRNAs do with these particular cases, and what the surgeons do. Also keep in mind, it's not "minimum" 2 years ICU, although that is correct for some programs. In my state there are several programs that are 1 year ICU requirement and some take ED exp as well if you can prove your competency with hemodynamics etc. when I applied to CRNA school I don't remember waiting a year to get in, it was actually a few months. But I'll go into all of that as well. I'll talk about why I withdrew my app. I was listening to other people put their happiness on me. And that's a problem. It all comes down to research! Check your messages!


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How did you decide on Cardiothoracic surgeon and Neurosurgeon? Shadowed some or does it just sound cool? If you decide on medical school thats great. If you decide on Nursing and/or CRNA school thats great. Try shadowing in primary/internal/etc and see if its what you like.
 
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How did you decide on Cardiothoracic surgeon and Neurosurgeon? Shadowed some or does it just sound cool? If you decide on medical school thats great. If you decide on Nursing and/or CRNA school thats great. Try shadowing in primary/internal/etc and see if its what you like.

I've looked at some of the surgical specialties and those are the two that grabbed me and haven't let go. I can't really explain it other than the brain and the heart are just beautiful in how they are designed and work. The funny thing is that I recently moved and now live down the street from a hospital but I haven't had a chance to ask about a shadowing/internship opportunity b/c I've been swamped with work and school.
 
That's deeply saddening. So what do they do? I was under the impression they did tumor resections, spinal surgery, etc on a daily basis.

And while it's true they are vastly different jobs, I was merely analyzing them from a standpoint of what I gained: How much free time would I have?, How much money would I make?, How much....?, etc.

The issue is that you need to chose the job that you want to do. Their differences are stark and bringing it down to simply time and money is dumb honestly.

The majority of neurosurgeons do a lot of spine surgery. Yes they resect tumors and do cranis but most neurosurgeons do spine that takes up the bulk of their day to day. This is pointless for you to even think about because to get to that point is 15 years away for you minimum. Maybe you should start by getting good grades your first year of college, and then shadow some doctors and nurses to see what it is they actually do. From the sounds of it you have really no experience with either of these fields.
 
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I've looked at some of the surgical specialties and those are the two that grabbed me and haven't let go. I can't really explain it other than the brain and the heart are just beautiful in how they are designed and work

:smack:
 
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The issue is that you need to chose the job that you want to do. Their differences are stark and bringing it down to simply time and money is dumb honestly.

The majority of neurosurgeons do a lot of spine surgery. Yes they resect tumors and do cranis but most neurosurgeons do spine that takes up the bulk of their day to day. This is pointless for you to even think about because to get to that point is 15 years away for you minimum. Maybe you should start by getting good grades your first year of college, and then shadow some doctors and nurses to see what it is they actually do. From the sounds of it you have really no experience with either of these fields.

To be fair, I did say I was 18. I'm getting some "okay" grades in my 3rd semester.
94 A&P Lecture
88 A&P Lab
87 Chem Lecture
98 Chem Lab
93 Stats
N/A Psychology (She never posts till the end of the year)

Like I said, I'm doing Nursing Pre-reqs unless I change my mind, but I was hoping that someone could, I don't know, enlighten me a little about the fields since, as you said, I'm inexperienced.
 
it's 6-8 years to making 180k and living a comfortable life, but possibly not feeling for fulfilled, or, I can choose to become a physician, take 12+ yrs and I know I'd be happy if I can make it.

I'm not going to rag on you for considering the financial aspects of it, because that's certainly a valid consideration when making important life decisions.

I would like to point out that right now, the money you can make as an advanced practice nurse (CRNA, DNP) is out of proportion to the investment (time and financial). In other words, current salaries are well "above market" for the training involved. That has happened numerous times in other professions, and is a situation that free market forces tend to correct for within a few years. The pipeline for CRNAs and DNPs is deep and wide, so a large number of qualified applicants are way ahead of you in line for those big bucks. By the time you get there, market forces will almost certainly have corrected the pay scale to something more appropriate to the training...

Now, on the the greater question, which is advanced practice nurse or physician. Might as well toss PA into the mix as well -- great career with a nice balance of autonomy and life-friendly training, and a decent income.

On the academics, the only way to see if you can cut it is to try. Give it your 100% best shot and see if you're up to it. You might surprise yourself with a great result. Or not. But it's a lot easier to hop OFF the pre-med trail and over to nursing or PA than it is to start off with pre-nursing classes and then have to re-take (yes, re-take) your hard sciences because the nursing versions were not as stringent. It will mean confronting the possibility head-on that you're not up to it. Or more realistically, that you're not willing to put in quite as much effort as it takes to succeed in pre-med classes. Or to hop on the hamster wheel and discover that you actually love it and have much more aptitude than you thought. But as someone older who's been around the block a few times, don't leave yourself with the chronic discomfort of always wondering if you could have...

Take a closer look at each job with your eyes wide open. Would you genuinely want all the responsibility the physician has? Ownership of life and death decisions? Liability when things go wrong? Or would you always be dissatisfied as a nurse knowing that the ultimate decisions were never yours? That no matter how smart you are, you will never truly be the one in charge? Would you rather implement the orders or give the orders?

And finally, what else do you want out of life? Flexibility to raise children, not feel guilty for staying home with them (if that's what you want) and "take a few shifts" when you need some extra money or time away from home? Or would you rather work like a demon upfront, then spend your leisure time golfing or sailing or jetting off to the Caribbean or Europe? If you're female, how do you feel about bearing children? And/or postponing childbearing? (Some young women think 30 is incredibly old for motherhood. Are you one of them?) And running a household -- Do you want to have time to run your own? Or would you rather have the disposable income to hire someone to cook and clean?

If you're not sure, keep your options open.
 
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That was amazing advice so thank you. For space's sake, I decided not to quote your words (I'm new so I'm not sure if there is a guideline on this).

I am a male, but thanks for being considerate enough to think if I wasn't. I'm not interested in children though which was one reason I felt geared towards a job that took much of my time. And since you brought it up, I'm okay with life and death decisions, but I want to make sure that I have the knowledge to make them first :)

Based off that, and some of the things that prettyNursetoMD has said, I'm really thinking CT surgery is for me. Of course, there is only one way to find out as you said.

Lots of people on here are being really helpful and this is a great first-post experience so far!
 
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That seems to be all the craze these days :)
I realize that everyone (overexaggeration) wants to be someone who is rich and extraordinary. I'm just putting my goals out there and saying, I'm having trouble deciding if its worth giving it my all.
It's not that they're extraordinary, it's that they're completely different fields with completely different personality types, skillsets, lifestyle etc. Other than superficial glamor in the eye of the layman there's not a lot that connects the two, which is why basically everyone is kind of laughing at you. (which is OK, you're 18)

I'll PM you. I've got experience in Cardiothoracic Surgery and Neurosurgery both in ICU.
With all due respect your experience, while valuable, isn't in CT or NSG
 
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It's not that they're extraordinary, it's that they're completely different fields with completely different personality types, skillsets, lifestyle etc. Other than superficial glamor in the eye of the layman there's not a lot that connects the two, which is why basically everyone is kind of laughing at you. (which is OK, you're 18)

Just to be clear, everyone is aware that I'm only interested in pursuing one or the other, not both? I'm just citing those as the two I'm interested in. I guess, maybe it is my inexperience due to age as you suggested that creates the sparkle on each, but I just have a strong to desire to focus on them.

That said, I might not be good enough to be a Surgeon, but it's at least worth a shot, or even at least worth considering.
 
So, given that the majority appear to think that looking at specializations is a waste when I'm so far from that point, I'll dial it back. Should I do a BSN or BSHS. If I do the first, I can do RN and if I pick up the pre-reqs for Med on the way, I'd have a fallback plan. On the other hand, would it be better for med school if I had a Health Sciences knowledge base that I could use in the future? These are the things that keep me up at night drenched in transudate :)
 
Just to be clear, everyone is aware that I'm only interested in pursuing one or the other, not both?
Yes, most of us realize cardioneurothoracicsurgery is not a thing.

That said, I might not be good enough to be a Surgeon, but it's at least worth a shot, or even at least worth considering.
Anyone who can get into medical school and is willing to work hard can be a surgeon. It's not usually brain surgery. Even when it is, it's not.

So, given that the majority appear to think that looking at specializations is a waste when I'm so far from that point, I'll dial it back. Should I do a BSN or BSHS. If I do the first, I can do RN and if I pick up the pre-reqs for Med on the way, I'd have a fallback plan. On the other hand, would it be better for med school if I had a Health Sciences knowledge base that I could use in the future? These are the things that keep me up at night drenched in transudate :)
Bro. Like everyone's been saying - be a nurse if you want to be a nurse. Otherwise do something else, which may include some kind of surgery. This isn't a difficult quandary but no one can tell you what you want to do. Also, sweat isn't really transudate, unless you're actually cirrhotic and are talking about being drenched in your weeping ascites. In which case, gross.
 
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Yes, most of us realize cardioneurothoracicsurgery is not a thing.


Anyone who can get into medical school and is willing to work hard can be a surgeon. It's not usually brain surgery. Even when it is, it's not.


Bro. Like everyone's been saying - be a nurse if you want to be a nurse. Otherwise do something else, which may include some kind of surgery. This isn't a difficult quandary but no one can tell you what you want to do. Also, sweat isn't really transudate, unless you're actually cirrhotic and are talking about being drenched in your weeping ascites. In which case, gross.

Damn, I tried. I didn't think it would be exudate since exudate is from imflammation so I went with transudate but I guess that's wrong.

Either way, thanks for the response.
 
@RogueUnicorn "With all due respect your experience, while valuable, isn't in CT or NSG"

I don't understand what you're asking me?? I'm sorry.
I'm just trying to let OP know that the ICU I work in houses 3 specialities. Cardiothoracic Surgery, Neurosurgery and Trauma on one unit. It's 24 bed, and I rotate through all specialities as a nurse, since he asked about specializing as a nurse as well. So, if he wanted to work as an RN in those units I can tell him what I do, if nursing is his goal, and to tell him my experiences with what the physicians do, and I can link him up with one. So if my verbiage was off sorry. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying im a CT or Neurosurgeon. Let's not play with semantics. I identified as a nurse. And based on the conversation the OP and I are having via PM, I'm answering the questions he has in regards to being a nurse in those specialities.
 
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So, given that the majority appear to think that looking at specializations is a waste when I'm so far from that point, I'll dial it back. Should I do a BSN or BSHS. If I do the first, I can do RN and if I pick up the pre-reqs for Med on the way, I'd have a fallback plan. On the other hand, would it be better for med school if I had a Health Sciences knowledge base that I could use in the future? These are the things that keep me up at night drenched in transudate :)

The thing is, your BSN courses will probably not be accepted as medical school credentials. Most universities have two science tracks: Hard core science for science majors, and Light-weight science for non-science majors. Medical schools, almost without exception, require the hard core version. Almost all BSN programs use the light-weight version (but accept the heavy duty version). So if you start off on a nursing track, you'll have a hard time getting off it. Essentially, you're making the decision now.

Your alternative - BSHS - would not be the best choice of major if you decide you want to be a physician. That type of program is generally more "vocational" (in a pre-profesisonal, not blue-collar sense) and tends to get mentally 'discounted' by admissions committees.

If you think you may want to become a surgeon, don't spend you time taking coursework that won't transfer over.
 
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The thing is, your BSN courses will probably not be accepted as medical school credentials. Most universities have two science tracks: Hard core science for science majors, and Light-weight science for non-science majors. Medical schools, almost without exception, require the hard core version. Almost all BSN programs use the light-weight version (but accept the heavy duty version). So if you start off on a nursing track, you'll have a hard time getting off it. Essentially, you're making the decision now.

Your alternative - BSHS - would not be the best choice of major if you decide you want to be a physician. That type of program is generally more "vocational" (in a pre-profesisonal, not blue-collar sense) and tends to get mentally 'discounted' by admissions committees.

If you think you may want to become a surgeon, don't spend you time taking coursework that won't transfer over.


Okay fair enough. I read online (clearly I should have done better research) that many people with BSHS degrees go towards Cardiology or NSG. What, in your opinion, would be a better pre-med degree geared towards being a physician? I can just get a Bachelor's and if things don't work out, I can do one of the advance RN programs to get a BSN from a bachelors.
 
Damn, I tried. I didn't think it would be exudate since exudate is from imflammation so I went with transudate but I guess that's wrong.

Either way, thanks for the response.
Sweat is a secretion. Keep it simple and next time just say sweat. You sound like a smart young man—good luck!
 
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@RogueUnicorn "With all due respect your experience, while valuable, isn't in CT or NSG"

I don't understand what you're asking me?? I'm sorry.
I'm just trying to let OP know that the ICU I work in houses 3 specialities. Cardiothoracic Surgery, Neurosurgery and Trauma on one unit. It's 24 bed, and I rotate through all specialities as a nurse, since he asked about specializing as a nurse as well. So, if he wanted to work as an RN in those units I can tell him what I do, if nursing is his goal, and to tell him my experiences with what the physicians do, and I can link him up with one. So if my verbiage was off sorry. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying im a CT or Neurosurgeon. Let's not play with semantics. I identified as a nurse. And based on the conversation the OP and I are having via PM, I'm answering the questions he has in regards to being a nurse in those specialities.
I wasn't asking anything...

I agree it's semantics but inasmuch this is a written forum, the meaning of what we write is kind of important; it's hard for strangers over the internet to gauge what another means beyond the actual words. I am probably being overly pedantic though and I apologize. Spine puts me in an ornery mood.
 
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I wasn't asking anything...

I agree it's semantics but inasmuch this is a written forum, the meaning of what we write is kind of important; it's hard for strangers over the internet to gauge what another means beyond the actual words. I am probably being overly pedantic though and I apologize. Spine puts me in an ornery mood.

Lol. No worries.
 
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This is a long-winded response to your post. It seems to me most kids in high school or just out of high school see the medical profession with starry eyes, and most of what they think being a doctor is like is from TV. It’s good that you are thinking or your future and have some career goals, but don’t box yourself in, keep your options open. Majority, something like 90% of premeds, end up doing something other than go to medical school.

Whether you chose neurosurgery or CT surgery, it’s a very long road. While both surgical subspecialties seem quite glamorous, they have a lot more tedium to them. Brain surgery may mean a simple burr hole to drain a subdural hematoma, or an 18 hour long operation to tease out a small lesion in the center of the brain. Both specialties involve brutal on call responsibilities, operating all night and then still have a full day the next day. Almost all doctors will tell you, the practice of medicine is quite mundane, running late in clinic, lots and lots of documentation, meeting with stressed out and sometimes angry families, with few a few cases to keep you interested. It is not glamorous as portrayed on TV.

At the end of the day, it is still a satisfying career so I won’t discourage you from it. You just need to know what you are getting into.
 
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that many people with BSHS degrees go towards Cardiology or NSG.

Wut? Where on earth did you read that?

What, in your opinion, would be a better pre-med degree geared towards being a physician?

You can do any degree and get into medical school. Just do something you like and get good grades. The major you pick in undergrad has absolutely no bearing on what field of medicine you practice or even on if you get into medical school or not. Academically there are only two things that matter: GPA, and MCAT.
 
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