Craiglist killer-- How is this possible?

[silas2642]

It really bothered me that the accused Craiglist killer is a 2nd year med student at a very reputable medical school, BU.

Assuming that he did commit the crimes that he is accused of (going out on a limb here and trusting law enforcement), how does this happen? There had to be warning signs that were simply missed, right? Tell me this guy was probably torturing small animals in his backyard or abusing his fiance. How did he get through all the checks and balances of the adcom process and go from a med student, working to save lives to a killer and taking them?

Killers don't just come from a vacuum, do they? Something had to happen to him or there had to be a sign that he was dangerous.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[peppy]

While of course we'd all like to think that everyone who gets into med school is there for altruistic reasons, I think the wealth, social status, and power associated with being a physician is likely to be very attractive to people with narcissistic and anti-social traits.
I think adcoms do try pretty hard to screen out such people, but it's probably inevitable that some will slip through the cracks when there is no way to quantify empathy or compassion.
How can you really distinguish between someone who does a lot of volunteer work out of genuine compassion and someone who does a lot of volunteer work because they are smart enough to know it will impress adcoms?
I think every school should have their applicants do an interview with a psychiatrist.

 

[whopper]

We really can't make a good opinion on this suspect. Remember he's a suspect. He might not be the killer. We don't have the oppurtunity to interview him, check his past, ask collateral sources etc.

However, that aside, people in medical school IMHO were no more ethical or unethical than the general population. I can remember several times in medical school, not understanding a concept, asking the guy sitting next to me who didn't want to help me because we were all being graded based off of a curve. I remember people intentionally giving other people bad/faulty data, people who had old tests & wouldn't share them etc.

If you're smart enough to get into medical school, that's a indicator of your academic performance, not your ethical character. What we see of someone in a lecture hall, or performance on a biochemistry test is not a gauge of their ethics, sexual perversions, political beliefs, etc. Academic excellence does not equate with humanitarianism.

How did he get through all the checks and balances of the adcom process and go from a med student, working to save lives to a killer and taking them?

What exact part of the application process could've weeded this guy out? While medschools do ask for a criminal record, I don't know of any cases where medschools really actually investigated it for real. Someone could lie on the application.

The only time I've ever been investigated throroughly was when applying for liscences, forensic fellowship, and working in a forensic facility. Program directors actually looked to see if I had a criminal background, and I've never seen any other rung in the medical application process do that.

I've actually known one extreme case where someone lied quite heavily on her application, but since no one looked under the rocks, she was able to get away with that very well.

Coming from a higher SES background can also shield someone. Better background=better lawyer. Some guys I considered friends in college were found to be rapists, and came from good backgrounds & did well in school.

This is no joke, but someone I knew who thought people of Hispanic or African ethinicity should be put into concentration camps, had paranoid personality disorder, thought he was of a race that was genetically superior, had a few paraphilias, and I feared this guy would start molesting kids got into a highly respected medical school. Tell me what part of the process could've weeded a guy like this out who is smart enough to know not to say anything that isn't PC.

 

[kugel]

I had to take an MMPI to apply to city EMS (many moons ago before Med School), but I never had to prove (or even really demonstrate) anything about my mental health to get into Med School, or into Psych residency, or graduate psych residency, or pass Boards.

Unfortunately, there is really nothing in the system that is designed or reliably capable of picking up mild-moderate mental illness, and it's probably almost entirely unable to pick up intelligent and clever Antisocials and Psychopaths. I don't mean to be too harsh, but several medical fields almost unintentionally seek it out or encourage it.

Should we start advocating for an MPMI or MCMI report as a part of Med School admissions? It's not perfect, but it's a start.

 

[pseudoknot]

Unfortunately, there is really nothing in the system that is designed or reliably capable of picking up mild-moderate mental illness, and it's probably almost entirely unable to pick up intelligent and clever Antisocials and Psychopaths.

Yes, we can't detect that sort of mental illness reliably. But does it matter?

Is everyone who commits a serious crime mentally ill? Isn't a basic assumption of our society and criminal justice system that most aren't?

Finally, I think it's funny that people keep expressing shock that no one predicted this. OF COURSE no one did. If we knew how to predict who was going to commit murder, why on Earth wouldn't we screen everyone that way?

 

[PsychMedStudent]

We really can't make a good opinion on this suspect. Remember he's a suspect. He might not be the killer. We don't have the oppurtunity to interview him, check his past, ask collateral sources etc.

Right, and the other assumption being made here is that just because he killed someone, there was something seriously wrong with him mentally. Early reports suggest that he got into gambling debt and that the killing was a result of a robbery gone bad. Sometimes average people just get in bad situations, get desperate, and make bad decisions.

 

[GH253]

It really bothered me that the accused Craiglist killer is a 2nd year med student at a very reputable medical school, BU.

Assuming that he did commit the crimes that he is accused of (going out on a limb here and trusting law enforcement), how does this happen? There had to be warning signs that were simply missed, right? Tell me this guy was probably torturing small animals in his backyard or abusing his fiance. How did he get through all the checks and balances of the adcom process and go from a med student, working to save lives to a killer and taking them?

Killers don't just come from a vacuum, do they? Something had to happen to him or there had to be a sign that he was dangerous.

There is a definite arrogance reflected in this post. Very assumptive and presuming. Would you prefer that the killer was an engineer, banker, or car mechanic instead of a medical student?

 

[tncekm]

It really bothered me that the accused Craiglist killer is a 2nd year med student at a very reputable medical school, BU.

Assuming that he did commit the crimes that he is accused of (going out on a limb here and trusting law enforcement), how does this happen? There had to be warning signs that were simply missed, right? Tell me this guy was probably torturing small animals in his backyard or abusing his fiance. How did he get through all the checks and balances of the adcom process and go from a med student, working to save lives to a killer and taking them?

Killers don't just come from a vacuum, do they? Something had to happen to him or there had to be a sign that he was dangerous.

If you can imagine something that isn't outside of what is physically possible, it can or will happen. My point? Well, if you've ever watched "Mr. Brooks" I'd suggest you consider that there are people like him out there. At this point it's only an allegation, but it's possible this BU student is like him. He got his rocks off thinking about it and just had to try. He may have been a great person to everyone else, but what goes on inside of peoples is hardly what we see on the outside unless they're literally out of their minds.

There is a definite arrogance reflected in this post. Very assumptive and presuming. Would you prefer that the killer was an engineer, banker, or car mechanic instead of a medical student?

You're missing the OP's point. He was simply pointing out his (IMHO, naive) belief that killers are made , and this guy doesn't seem to have anything in his past that would turn him into a killer.

 

[notdeadyet]

Should we start advocating for an MPMI or MCMI report as a part of Med School admissions? It's not perfect, but it's a start.

I'd sooner there were less mind-gaming in med school admissions rather than more.

Besides, it would just be more tests that med student hopefuls would learn how to game.

Bad people slip in to every grad program and industry imaginable. Medicine won't be any different.

 

[silas2642]

There is a definite arrogance reflected in this post. Very assumptive and presuming. Would you prefer that the killer was an engineer, banker, or car mechanic instead of a medical student?

No, but it definitely would have made me feel better if the suspect had a long criminal hx, and perhaps a career criminal instead of pretty much blending in with everyday society.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

No, but it definitely would have made me feel better if the suspect had a long criminal hx, and perhaps a career criminal instead of pretty much blending in with everyday society.

It's always easier for us to think that "THEY" are the reasons for the bad things in the world, instead of being confronted with the truth that "WE" are capable of evil as well.

 

[HCE]

It's always easier for us to think that "THEY" are the reasons for the bad things in the world, instead of being confronted with the truth that "WE" are capable of evil as well.

I think you summed up perfectly the cause of the OP's angst here...

"We have met the enemy, and it is us." - Pogo

 

[whopper]

Requiring an MMPI though it would add insight would also open other problems.

The MMPI is a great test, though if used as a character test could open up a Pandora's box in terms of using it to judge someone. There will be false (+)s. Imagine being a guy who is a false (+), getting rejected, but all the scores, LORs, MCAT scores are very good.

I wouldn't be totally against a personality test such as an MMPI, but it would have to be carefully done.

I think medschools & residencies need to actually look into people's records. I mentioned that while such places do ask for them, I've never known them to actually look into them for real. They pretty much just believe the applicant at face value.

And I'll add a criticism for the system. Medical education is quite competitive, even dehumanizing in several aspects. That type of stress can cause people to have problems. Even though we are in a healing profession, several even in the psychiatric profession look down upon people who seek help for mental health problems. Several of us over the table claim we want our patients to have every oppurtunity, but under the table have thoughts "oh this guy saw a psychiatrist, I'm never hiring him". I'll bet you money that if a study were done, someone with a mental illness, if announced on an application would be less likely to be admitted to a psychiatric residency or medical school.

Point being that in addition to the stress of medical school, there's also the stress of possibly closing doors for your future should you seek help for mental illness.

 

[Taurus]

This is not the first time this decade that BU has admitted a future murderer into their med class. It happened in 2001 with Daniel Mason.

 

[BobA]

This is not the first time this decade that BU has admitted a future murderer into their med class. It happened in 2001 with Daniel Mason.

Two or three anecdotes of bad apples should not ruin a school's rep.

However, to add another story - On my medicine sub-i my upper level resident had gone to BU for med school and he is one of the meanest people I have ever met. At the time, I was actually planning on going into medicine and I was working extremely hard on the rotation and doing well. But this guy just has a knack for saying the meanest thing possible in any given situation. Now he's a fellow at my hospital and I see him around and it's the same thing - he always says the meanest thing he possibly can in any situation. He strikes me as completely grizzled and miserable. I wonder if the culture at his medical center did something to him. . .

 

[HCE]

Two or three anecdotes of bad apples should not ruin a school's rep.

However, to add another story - On my medicine sub-i my upper level resident had gone to BU for med school and he is one of the meanest people I have ever met. At the time, I was actually planning on going into medicine and I was working extremely hard on the rotation and doing well. But this guy just has a knack for saying the meanest thing possible in any given situation. Now he's a fellow at my hospital and I see him around and it's the same thing - he always says the meanest thing he possibly can in any situation. He strikes me as completely grizzled and miserable. I wonder if the culture at his medical center did something to him. . .

Sounds like he should have gone into surgery.

 

[BobA]

Sounds like he should have gone into surgery.

Despite being a complete jerk during my medicine Sub-I and helping to confirm my decision to not go into IM, he continually lobbied me to stay at my school and do IM.

I ran into him yesterday just before I made that post and he said, "where did you match?" I told him and he said, to paraphrase "your new location sucks, you will be miserable." Which he followed with an obviously against his nature attempt at being upbeat "Congratulations!"

He has a unique talent for saying the meanest possible thing in any given situation. Instead of surgery, I think he should consider writing smart-alack "flair" pins, or cheap mall T-shirts with cleverly mean sayings on them that can be worn my rebellious skater-teens.

 

[BobA]

Sounds like he should have gone into surgery.

Despite being a complete jerk during my medicine Sub-I and helping to confirm my decision to not go into IM, he continually lobbied me to stay at my school and do IM.

I ran into him yesterday just before I made that post and he said, "where did you match?" I told him and he said, to paraphrase "your new location sucks, you will be miserable." Which he followed with an obviously against his nature attempt at being upbeat "Congratulations!"

He has a unique talent for saying the meanest possible thing in any given situation. Instead of surgery, I think he should consider writing smart-alack "flair" pins, or cheap mall T-shirts with cleverly mean sayings on them that can be worn my rebellious skater-teens.

 

[nitemagi]

The prevalence of ASPD in the general population is somewhere around 1%, in terms of personality characteristics, not necessarily with the criminal background. A lot of time these folk probably channel their nature into a socially appropriate business, such as investment banking, lawyer, etc. I could see someone making the argument for an ASPD surgeon

 

[whopper]

A lot of time these folk probably channel their nature into a socially appropriate business, such as investment banking, lawyer, etc. I could see someone making the argument for an ASPD surgeon

There are plenty of articles mentioning that ASPD isn't just that low level criminal, holding up a 7-11 with a pistol. It can be a Bernie Madoff, an ENRON CEO, Presidents of the US & other people that would if not caught be considered society's elite, and even in cases after they're caught are still in the elite.

I think there's a bit of narcissism medical doctors & academicians in general have--equating academic achievement with being a better human being. After all, by thinking that, it allows us to think we are better & superior human beings which is very reaffirming to our egos. Academics certainly do open oppurtunities to enrich oneself on several intellectual levels, and be better people, but there's no humanity gauge in education. One can still be antisocial & make it through the process with nonbenevolent intents.

Its certainly something I did. As a medical student I noticed not all of my fellow students were in touch with their own feelings or had noble reasons to go into medical school. That was a downer for me, as I thought being in medschool would be like being in Starfleet Academy in terms of academics, but also in terms of being with people who cared for their fellow human being. As a resident I figured out the hard way that not every attending is a good doctor on a level several medical students & residents would think an attending would be.

If you are a good test taker and study well, you can pass medical school. If you can get past residency, you work hard. Antisocial people can still slip through, and do, and I've noticed several after training allow themselves to forget things & not keep up with their training.

I'm sure several of you residents know some colleagues that you don't think do good work. Some of you may be putting a bit of personal animus in your judgement of your colleagues, but some of you are very justified in thinking some colleagues don't do good work, cut corners, and don't have the patient's best interests in mind. Remember, as long as those people are allowed to graduate, they will most likely be practicing physicians. That is a big reality check for those with the notion that all doctors are great humanitarians. We ought to be--we should strive to be---we all aren't.

 

[nlax30]

And I'll add a criticism for the system. Medical education is quite competitive, even dehumanizing in several aspects. That type of stress can cause people to have problems. Even though we are in a healing profession, several even in the psychiatric profession look down upon people who seek help for mental health problems.

I'll definitely agree with this. Even just over the first two years it seems like the stress can be out the extremes in some people. I could see it exaggerating an existing personality disorder/defect or causing someone to do something they normally wouldn't do.

I'll occasionally have lunch with interviewees and try to mention that it's useful to have figured out a healthy way of dealing with stress that works for them, if they haven't already.

Also don't agree on something like an MMPI for admissions. I don't know, just seems like it's getting a little too close to a line where it could easily be abused.

 

[whopper]

Also don't agree on something like an MMPI for admissions. I don't know, just seems like it's getting a little too close to a line where it could easily be abused.

Someone would have to develop some type of objective, valid & reliable application of the MMPI for a medical student that helped in the application process. As of now, there is nothing that has been done to use the MMPI for this reason.

The only truth test I can think of that has been very reliable, though the jury is still out, and more research needs to be done on this process is an fMRI as a possible lie detector (and I still got much more to read about it--an article about it was in a recent AAPL journal).

Imagine a medstudent on an interview and in an fMRI lie detector that were 99.99% accurate---with questions such as "do you really want to be a doctor to help your fellow human being?", or "how much is money influencing your decision to be a doctor", or have you written anything in your application that was not honest & truthful".

 

[nlax30]

Imagine a medstudent on an interview and in an fMRI lie detector that were 99.99% accurate---with questions such as "do you really want to be a doctor to help your fellow human being?", or "how much is money influencing your decision to be a doctor", or have you written anything in your application that was not honest & truthful".

Haha, you may be on to something. If interviews weren't already stressful enough.......

This "interview room" would have to be a dark, cold room down in the basement somewhere. In undergrad our psych building had a storage room on the top floor where all sorts of old lab equipment (meters, animal cages, electrodes, etc....) was kept, I'm picturing something along those lines.

 

[psychdude99]

A former therapist once told me that a dirty little secret of university health systems is that, in addition to the usual role of helping undergrads adjust to the rigors of their education, they are also, unofficially, meant to serve as an unpublicized safety net for seriously mentally ill people (eg. schizophrenics) who experience their first psychotic breaks between the ages of 18-22.

Perhaps the Craigslist Killer is just a late bloomer whose first psychotic break did not take place until the pressures of 2nd year Med School finally caught up with him. It's been reported that gambling debts may have led him to plan a robbery (robberies?) that soon devolved into murder, but this explanation, in my unprofessional opinion, seems unlikely given the violent outcome and the alleged pattern of assaults that the suspect appears to have exhibited.

Those of you on this forum with an in-depth knowledge of psychiatry will no doubt have a better grasp on this little theory of mine, but petty crime-cum-serial murder seems too simplistic to explain the behavior of a man who was intelligent enough to gain admission to, and complete almost 2 years of BU Medical School.

Any thoughts?

 

[whopper]

Its crossing a dangerous line to speculate on individual's circumstances when the psychiatrist has not been able to do a formal examination of that person. Further if that were done for medical purposes (that does not include forensic purposes), then that would bind the psychiatrist to not reveal this data to the public.

We can however talk about it in a general manner. E.g. could someone in medschool have a first break? Yes. Can someone in medschool be antisocial? Yes. Was this the case with this individual? We cannot answer that.

A former therapist once told me that a dirty little secret of university health systems is that, in addition to the usual role of helping undergrads adjust to the rigors of their education, they are also, unofficially, meant to serve as an unpublicized safety net for seriously mentally ill people (eg. schizophrenics) who experience their first psychotic breaks between the ages of 18-22.

Yes. I've seen several cases where a Masters student was acting as a therapist for college students. I remember calling up various Eating DO clinics-several situated in universities across the country to do an elective rotation--and being told "Dr., we are only Masters students and we have no Ph.D. psychology or psychiatric M.D. oversight" Geez, hey I didn't look into the laws of those areas but I kept thinking to myself--"is that legal?"

 

[kugel]

Suppose you wanted to "weed out" significant mental/characterologic problems at any of these levels: Med school admissions, before graduating med school, before permitted to practice independently.
How would you go about it? Assume money is no object.

 

[BobA]

A former therapist once told me that a dirty little secret of university health systems is that, in addition to the usual role of helping undergrads adjust to the rigors of their education, they are also, unofficially, meant to serve as an unpublicized safety net for seriously mentally ill people (eg. schizophrenics) who experience their first psychotic breaks between the ages of 18-22.

Perhaps the Craigslist Killer is just a late bloomer whose first psychotic break did not take place until the pressures of 2nd year Med School finally caught up with him. It's been reported that gambling debts may have led him to plan a robbery (robberies?) that soon devolved into murder, but this explanation, in my unprofessional opinion, seems unlikely given the violent outcome and the alleged pattern of assaults that the suspect appears to have exhibited.

Those of you on this forum with an in-depth knowledge of psychiatry will no doubt have a better grasp on this little theory of mine, but petty crime-cum-serial murder seems too simplistic to explain the behavior of a man who was intelligent enough to gain admission to, and complete almost 2 years of BU Medical School.

Any thoughts?

I'm just an MS4, but have several years experience working with the chronically mentally ill. From my own experience and from what I've read (can't give citations), I think serious violence among patients with psychotic disorders is rare.

I think people with psychotic disorders make "normals" uncomfortable because we're afraid of the unknown. Since we can't empathize as well with someone who's psychotic as we can with another "normal" we feel a little afraid of them.

I just don't like psychiatrists perpetuating the notion that psychotic disorders=violence because I think the prevalence of physically violent behaviors in psychotic patients is still actually quite low.

"The craigslist killer" crimes were very organized pre-meditated robbery/murder plots and I haven't met a truly psychotic patient who would have been able to carry out such an organized attack.

It'd be interesting to hear what the folks in forensics think!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Haha, you may be on to something. If interviews weren't already stressful enough.......

This "interview room" would have to be a dark, cold room down in the basement somewhere. In undergrad our psych building had a storage room on the top floor where all sorts of old lab equipment (meters, animal cages, electrodes, etc....) was kept, I'm picturing something along those lines.

Sounds like a good second career for Dick Cheney...

I'm just glad I went to med school in the era when torture and waterboarding was reserved for the 3rd year OB/GYN rotation...

 

[whopper]

I just don't like psychiatrists perpetuating the notion that psychotic disorders=violence because I think the prevalence of physically violent behaviors in psychotic patients is still actually quite low.

For the most part true.

The general rule, simplistically stated is 1-young, 2-dumb, 3-male, 4-substance abuse 5-psychotic or manic disorder 6)previous violence increases risk of violence Forgive the lack of PC with the young & dumb comment. Non PC pneumonics among docs, just like the non PC FLK, or the cranial nerve "Oh Oh Oh to Touch And Feel a Virgin G......"

Psychosis itself often times is not showed to increase risk of violence. However coupled with the above.....

"The craigslist killer" crimes were very organized pre-meditated robbery/murder plots and I haven't met a truly psychotic patient who would have been able to carry out such an organized attack.

I'm in a non-normal perspective here. You are in general right, though I'm in a place where we got all the violent forensic psychotic &/or manic people across a state in 1 facility. Also as the FNG attending in the place, they put me on the toughest unit, so I'm actually working like a PGY 1.

Remember that Schizophrenia Chronic Paranoid Type can present with a person who is paranoid, delusional, but can often times still have an intact concentration & memory. These people can carry out organized attacks.

I've had quite a few schizophrenic disorganized patients who are not violent when psychotic, but when you clear them up, the antisocial, histrionic bully comes out. Geez, they were safer when they were psychotic.

The above types, but also several other forensic patients when stabilized on meds are quite antisocial & violent, though not due to psychosis, which is actually causing me quite of a lot of counter-transference because several of these people have figured out how to manipulate the system. They commit a violent crime, cop sees they have a psychiatric DO and drops them off at the hospital instead of the jail---all the while the person may have known what they were doing and were in reality not meeting the McNaughton standard. Once at the hospital, the doc can't do much, either discharge a person who is dangerous for antisocial reasons--and face possible liability should that person commit a violent act, or put that person in the hospital which on paper makes it look like the person was truly psychotic at the time which builds up a defense for the person.

 

[silas2642]

I'm just an MS4, but have several years experience working with the chronically mentally ill. From my own experience and from what I've read (can't give citations), I think serious violence among patients with psychotic disorders is rare.

I think people with psychotic disorders make "normals" uncomfortable because we're afraid of the unknown. Since we can't empathize as well with someone who's psychotic as we can with another "normal" we feel a little afraid of them.

I just don't like psychiatrists perpetuating the notion that psychotic disorders=violence because I think the prevalence of physically violent behaviors in psychotic patients is still actually quite low.

"The craigslist killer" crimes were very organized pre-meditated robbery/murder plots and I haven't met a truly psychotic patient who would have been able to carry out such an organized attack.

It'd be interesting to hear what the folks in forensics think!

I guess the thing that amazes me about Markoff is that for the most part, everyone is saying how "normal" he was, aside from like one former BU med student who dropped out. Others say that he was kind of "odd," but he was a med student. I just thought that a person who would be committing these kinds of crimes would be giving off different kinds of warning signs-- a criminal record, torturing small animals, lighting houses on fire, abusing women, or something of that nature.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I guess the thing that amazes me about Markoff is that for the most part, everyone is saying how "normal" he was, aside from like one former BU med student who dropped out. Others say that he was kind of "odd," but he was a med student. I just thought that a person who would be committing these kinds of crimes would be giving off different kinds of warning signs-- a criminal record, torturing small animals, lighting houses on fire, abusing women, or something of that nature.

Required reading. Not all sociopaths look like Jeff Dahmer. Some appear quite functional, even charming....

 

[michaelrack]

Should we start advocating for an MPMI or MCMI report as a part of Med School admissions? It's not perfect, but it's a start.

Within 6 months of this requirement, Kaplan or another test prep company would have a course out on how to "pass" the MMPI.

 

[whopper]

Some appear quite functional, even charming....

There a sociopath subtype that actually is quite charming.

The PCL-R which measures psychopathy actually has "Glibness/superficial charm" as a factor.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

There a sociopath subtype that actually is quite charming.

The PCL-R which measures psychopathy actually has "Glibness/superficial charm" as a factor.

What do you think about the fiancee's "Stand by your Man" subtype?

 

[silas2642]

What do you think about the fiancee's "Stand by your Man" subtype?

Yeah, what is that? Straight up denial?

 

[whopper]

What do you think about the fiancee's "Stand by your Man" subtype?

I don't know anything about the fiancee in this case.

But most women I see in inpatient who have the "stand by your man" attitude, when their boyfriend/husband/fiancee is a complete jerk seem to have Dependent PD or traits of it.

 

[Indryd]

The prevalence of ASPD in the general population is somewhere around 1%, in terms of personality characteristics, not necessarily with the criminal background. A lot of time these folk probably channel their nature into a socially appropriate business, such as investment banking, lawyer, etc. I could see someone making the argument for an ASPD surgeon

Exactly. This was a smart dude. People with these kind of severe personality...uhh differences--and often even people with severe organic mental illness--who are also very intelligent very often learn early on what kinds of behaviors will get them what they want, whether it be attention, money, sex, etc., or even just a "normal" life.

But just like how smart people can be fat, or addicts, or destructive--for all their smarts, unable to control "id"--these smart ASPD types can still lose control despite their intelligence and tight reins on their desires. Hence this high functioning, intelligent guy living a bit of a secret life (we have talked about his gay/transexual craigslist adventures ongoing before these murders/robberies no?), probably skating the edge thinking he was in control, until all of a sudden he wasn't.

 

[iheartpirates]

I remember people intentionally giving other people bad/faulty data, people who had old tests & wouldn't share them etc.

that is hilarious

 

[fMRI]

who didn't want to help me because we were all being graded based off of a curve. I remember people intentionally giving other people bad/faulty data, people who had old tests & wouldn't share them etc.

They all wrote in their application letters
"I want to dedicate my life to helping people!"
Yeah, right, so please start with us, now!

On a less jovial note and back on track, there is some research
that the "first impression" is usually just as valid (if not more so)
we have of sociopaths et al. Give them more time and they'll
lull us in. Check out authors like SO Lilienfeld and colleagues.
e.g. Psychol Assess. 2009 Mar;21(1):68-78.

Alternatively, just watch the news and hear all the neighbors
of any criminal look flabbergasted into the cameras and say
"but he was the "nice neighbor" type -- I would have never
suspected *this*!"

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I don't know anything about the fiancee in this case.

But most women I see in inpatient who have the "stand by your man" attitude, when their boyfriend/husband/fiancee is a complete jerk seem to have Dependent PD or traits of it.

I was thinking that, too, which might me why she didn't "notice" things that seemed off before. However, what she's going through is amazingly tough, so I think a lot of us would revert to denial for a while. She's been more quiet recently, so I wonder if she's gearing up to dump him.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Required reading. Not all sociopaths look like Jeff Dahmer. Some appear quite functional, even charming....

And Jeff Dahmer was kind of charming, too. I can't help but like the guy and feel bad for him whenever I see his interviews.

 

[fMRI]

60 pairs of plastic flexcuffs and 16 pair of female underwear (2 panties belong to two victims, confirmed)... If that's not a good enough reason to call off the wedding, then I don't know.


If you fancy collecting opposite sex underwear, go ahead, just don't attack/murder the owners to get it.

 

[whopper]

"I want to dedicate my life to helping people!"
Yeah, right, so please start with us, now!

Reminds me of the Apprentice (when the show was actually good). When the show starts, everyone is hunky dory. When the guns are put to the head, everyone is willing to sell everyone else out. Can't exactly say I've seen 100% of medical students act noble under pressure. Same goes with residents & attendings.

And that's a reason why when I was involved in the admission process, a letter of reccomendation from someone who's seen the person act in extreme circumstances--e.g. a commanding officer in the military to me was better vs a medical attending.

If you've ever seen the sci fi series Firefly there's a classic line a bad guy would pull before torturing his victims...
"Have you ever read the works of Shan Yu?" Shan Yu--a fictional dictator believed you only truly knew someone when you faced them under torture. In short, only under extreme pressure does a person's real character come out, and just what they're willing to do to get out of that pressure.