Correct my thinking

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Doowai

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
1,660
Reaction score
2
Correct my thinking, but it seems to me that practicing a rural area is a good idea financially.

I have a doctor friend who approached a very small rural city in southeastern Missouri, telling them of his intent to practice primary care there. The city gave him a facility (not great but it was free rent) and gave him an RN (one of the towns residents who was a nurse).

Office rent in small towns is often very low. Housing is very low - I was looking at a small midwestern residency, and looking for housing online - found a 5 year old (manufactured ) home, on wooded 1.5 acres, 5 bedrooms, 3000+ feet for $100,000 flat. I know manufactured housing is not all that great - but reasonable price for alot of living space that is not very old.

I know that advertsing is very easy in a small town. I owned a business in a town of 3500 for 7 years - you do not need to adertise at all. The day you show up in a town that size EVERYONE knows you are there. People spend a fortune advertising (1/4 page yellow pages, newspaper ads, flyers, billboards) in large cities. Your commute is non-existent , when I owned a business in a small town I often walked to work, even though people knew I made a good income. My sons grade school was literally behind my business and I could open the back door and watch my son play on recess - several times I filmed him playing. I loved watching him play with all the other kids. I hired staff more committed with higher work ethics for almost minimum wage than I was able to find for 3 times as much in a city of millions. My third office space in the small town was about 1500 square feet for $400 a month, all utilities etc covered (in 1998) - was brand new, I was the first person in that space. I also rented a larger office space for less money, but it was not as new.

You could be paying on a good size house for $800 a month, spending a few hundred dollars a month on advertising (most of it discretional such as paying for the uniforms of a local little league team with your name on the back of the jerseys), spending almost nothing on commutes, paying much less for office rent, spending less on salaries, and often malpractice is less in rural areas. I mean seriously : I think an office overhead (with one part time and one full time staff) would be $10,000 or less, and personal overhead of $2-5,000 depending on loans a person might have. Anything over $15K a month is bankable or reinvestable in the business if you want to avoid paying taxes.

It seems ideal to be in a small town within 30 minutes to an hour from a larger "funner" city.

Good thinking, bad thinking? I just foresee living in a small town again, so I can just bankroll the extra money.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Correct my thinking, but it seems to me that practicing a rural area is a good idea financially.

I have a doctor friend who approached a very small rural city in southeastern Missouri, telling them of his intent to practice primary care there. The city gave him a facility (not great but it was free rent) and gave him an RN (one of the towns residents who was a nurse).

Office rent in small towns is often very low. Housing is very low - I was looking at a small midwestern residency, and looking for housing online - found a 5 year old (manufactured ) home, on wooded 1.5 acres, 5 bedrooms, 3000+ feet for $100,000 flat. I know manufactured housing is not all that great - but reasonable price for alot of living space that is not very old.

I know that advertsing is very easy in a small town. I owned a business in a town of 3500 for 7 years - you do not need to adertise at all. The day you show up in a town that size EVERYONE knows you are there. People spend a fortune advertising (1/4 page yellow pages, newspaper ads, flyers, billboards) in large cities. Your commute is non-existent , when I owned a business in a small town I often walked to work, even though people knew I made a good income. My sons grade school was literally behind my business and I could open the back door and watch my son play on recess - several times I filmed him playing. I loved watching him play with all the other kids. I hired staff more committed with higher work ethics for almost minimum wage than I was able to find for 3 times as much in a city of millions. My third office space in the small town was about 1500 square feet for $400 a month, all utilities etc covered (in 1998) - was brand new, I was the first person in that space. I also rented a larger office space for less money, but it was not as new.

You could be paying on a good size house for $800 a month, spending a few hundred dollars a month on advertising (most of it discretional such as paying for the uniforms of a local little league team with your name on the back of the jerseys), spending almost nothing on commutes, paying much less for office rent, spending less on salaries, and often malpractice is less in rural areas. I mean seriously : I think an office overhead (with one part time and one full time staff) would be $10,000 or less, and personal overhead of $2-5,000 depending on loans a person might have. Anything over $15K a month is bankable or reinvestable in the business if you want to avoid paying taxes.

It seems ideal to be in a small town within 30 minutes to an hour from a larger "funner" city.

Good thinking, bad thinking? I just foresee living in a small town again, so I can just bankroll the extra money.

Absolutely... your thinking is correct and doesnt need correction. The only draw back in a rural setting is your kid's education.
 
It seems ideal to be in a small town within 30 minutes to an hour from a larger "funner" city.

If you're less than an hour from a major city you're not really rural anymore, more like suburban and prices will increase accordingly. If people can commute to the city (up to 1 hr unless you're talking NYC, DC etc) then you're dealing with suburban pricing.

As for the education, I received a very good public education in a small town in KY. My cousins received good public educations in rural and small town Indiana. They went on to college at Johns Hopkins and Harvard. I'm in medical school and my cousin graduated from one of the best law schools in the country. Short of a ultra-competitive prep-school, I can't see that our education suffered much and it was free up to college.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I have a job lined up for after residency in a small town about 1 hour from a major metropolitan area. My income will be higher there than if I had gone to that big city, and the cost of living is very much more affordable. I prefer small town living, and look forward to moving there, but I'm sure there are those people however, that no matter how good the income is they just cannot tolerate small town USA, preferring instead the hustle and bustle of city life. Choosing one over the other is very much a personal preference (not at all saying the OP was indicating anything else).
 
I'm always trying to recruit physicians for my home area so here goes. :p

Wisconsin has a Loan Assistance program through the Wisconsin Office of Rural Health. They do physician recruitment and offer $50,000 in loan repayment for practicing in an underserved area for a certain number of years.

The area I'm most familiar with is northwest Wisconsin. There's a physician shortage area north of Rice Lake (look on a map--see that big space of nothing? look there. Rice Lake is roughly 70 miles north of Eau Claire) in towns such as Winter and Phillips. It's breathtakingly beautiful there, cost of living is very low, and any physician can be as busy as s/he could ever possibly want. The downside is that it's quite rural. For example, cell phones don't work everywhere. Most people don't grocery shop very often. Roads get closed because of snow. It's cold. Seriously cold. There are no specialists. Transporting patients is not easy. But the people there are good, salt-of-the-earth people and health care providers are appreciated and respected there. You see your patients at the grocery store (this can be good or bad :laugh: ) and the cafe and they will recognize you and call you "Doc". You'll make just as much as in the city but you can buy a lovely house for $80K. Public schools don't have much for AP programs, but the classes are small, you know the teachers, you know the other parents, gang violence is not an issue, and distance learning programs are slowly getting up to speed.

Anyway, here's the WORH link for anyone who's interested. http://www.worh.org/workforce
 
Yeah Wisconsin is good , especially for FMG medical doctors. They can get licensed after one year of residency. I interviewed at residency programs there that offered between 15 and 20 thousand a year after residency to stay, on top of salary - which was higher than national average. Lowest fam med job I saw listed was $150,000/year. On top of that is 15 or 20 thou signing bonus - the one that gave 15 thou, did that for 3 years if you kept signing back up for 3 years. So in 3 years that is an extra $45K. WIsconsin is not bad - Lake Michigan is cool.
 
Anyway, here's the WORH link for anyone who's interested. http://www.worh.org/workforce

I noticed your link showed that in WIsconsin 4 specialties (FP, IM, Psyche and Pedes) can get up to $50K in one chunk as a signing bonus to be used towards loans. That is a nice added bonus, not going to other specialties like anesthesia, EM etc.
 
Wisconsin is wonderful, but I freely admit I'm biased. :p In all fairness though, most of the rural underserved areas are nowhere near Lake Michigan. The beauty of the forest makes up for the beauty of the lake, though. :)
 
Wisconsin has a Loan Assistance program through the Wisconsin Office of Rural Health. They do physician recruitment and offer $50,000 in loan repayment for practicing in an underserved area for a certain number of years.

I was born in Ashland and had planned on going into rural medicine anyhow, but this sounds like a lovely bit of frosting on the cake.

Except.. I don't understand what 'loan repayment' is. Is that where the WORH gives you 50k to apply to your school and you repay it with x number of years of service in an underserved area of your choosing... or do you have to do x number of years of service in the underserved area AND repay the 50k?



Thanks,
Shan:luck:
 
I was born in Ashland and had planned on going into rural medicine anyhow, but this sounds like a lovely bit of frosting on the cake.

Except.. I don't understand what 'loan repayment' is. Is that where the WORH gives you 50k to apply to your school and you repay it with x number of years of service in an underserved area of your choosing... or do you have to do x number of years of service in the underserved area AND repay the 50k?



Thanks,
Shan:luck:

You are pretty much right. The "loan repayment" is money given to you to repay your student loans from undergrad and med school. You usually do have to sign on for a number of years to get this. Usually somewhere between 2 and 4 years. In some states you are assigned to an underserved area, and in others you get to choose from a list of areas (state dependent). Also many hospital or private groups will offer loan repayment money in exchange for a several year contract regardless of the underserved status. This is what I have. I signed a contract to work for a health care group for 3 years and will receive a certain number of dollars for loan repayment as well as a nice salary. This is not a loan, but a benefit, but if you fail to fullfill the contract the money does have to be repaid.
 
This is not a loan, but a benefit, but if you fail to fullfill the contract the money does have to be repaid.


Basically grant money then?

V. nice... to get bennies like that for doing what I plan on doing anyhow.


Shan:luck:
 
You are pretty much right. The "loan repayment" is money given to you to repay your student loans from undergrad and med school. You usually do have to sign on for a number of years to get this. Usually somewhere between 2 and 4 years. In some states you are assigned to an underserved area, and in others you get to choose from a list of areas (state dependent). Also many hospital or private groups will offer loan repayment money in exchange for a several year contract regardless of the underserved status. This is what I have. I signed a contract to work for a health care group for 3 years and will receive a certain number of dollars for loan repayment as well as a nice salary. This is not a loan, but a benefit, but if you fail to fullfill the contract the money does have to be repaid.

I am considering the same thing, but I am curious as to what the salary is like when you enter into a loan repayment program? Is it way under the average or is it competitive with the average? I am interested in the NHSC, but have not been able to find out info on income figures while in repayment. Do you know anything about this or know someone else who is in this type of program? Thanks
 
<snip>what the salary is like when you enter into a loan repayment program? Is it way under the average or is it competitive with the average?


I have this concern as well. I'm still trying to figure out what is meant by 'loan repayment', because if it were a grant or a bursary, wouldn't that be plainly stated?

You don't get it all up front, either.

HPLAP.JPG



Shan:luck:
 
Top