Corporate is a mixed bag for me

[Eyegirl2k7]

I have to say corporate is a mixed bag. Yesterday was a very mixed day.

I helped one patient who was scared she was going blind like her sister but actually had an episode of herpetic keratitis. Diagnosed one very definite glaucoma and one ocular hypertension. Succesfully fit some complicated presbyopic cases for bifocal contacts.

On the other hand a ghetto patient at the end of the day demanded to talk to me because I would not give her new trials lenses AGAIN since her exam was in October (yep, it's February now) and she did not show for her 1 week followup. We have a 90 days policy on cls fits. She told me she had a baby since then and complained of blurry vision (didn't mention the pregnancy to me at the exam, of course--and it wasn't obvious) When I explained to her as calmly as possible (and everyone who works corporate on a busy saturday in a fairly low income area knows how tenuous this calm is) that she needed to pay for a new exam she told me that our company was bull**** and screamed at me to "suck her ****". Then her group of gangbangers followed her out and tried to slam the door---haha, it doesn't slam. Thanks to that, I haven't slept all night--it's 8 in the morning and I have to be at work in two hours. Spent all night wondering whether or not I could have handled it better and whether or not I am a bad doctor. And whether I am going to get my new car jacked.

I have done $29 dollar eye exams--that was our grand opening special, xmattODx and I must work for the same entity. They're $39 now.There's also a sku for $1 eye exams which apparently the company uses in Minnesota.

On the upside, one more month and my credit card debt that I accumulated from school should be gone...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[xmattODx]

I have done $29 dollar eye exams--that was our grand opening special, xmattODx and I must work for the same entity. They're $39 now.There's also a sku for $1 eye exams which apparently the company uses in Minnesota.

On the upside, one more month and my credit card debt that I accumulated from school should be gone...

A question and then some unsolicited advice.

What city are you living in? I was working for VisionWorks in Atlanta.

If you are doing the same get out.

Now.

You can find something better. I did it for three years and it nearly killed me. I was depressed, tired all the time, I gained 30 pounds that I still haven't been able to lose and had trouble sleeping at night.

I'm not ragging on commercial but there are a few commercial outlets that I won't work for anymore. America's Best, VisionWorks and the like. Before I step back in a place like that I'd rather go back to my high school job flipping burgers.

Something my wife always told me as I complained about the patients is to not blame them. They were trained to act the way they do by previous optometrists and the corporate higher ups.

Your contact lens follow up woman could easily phone the district manager who will then phone your employer OD who will then tell you to give her another trial and release the Rx. Now that is when life becomes very difficult. And the patient will know that simply complaining can get her around any silly optometrists "rules". Its not that they are "ghetto" (and I wouldn't say that anymore as it seems the way you are using it is almost racist) its that you've been sold out by corporate and everyone knows it.

Just give up on 1 week cl checks. Hardly anyone will return for them but the staff will sell them lenses anyway. I know we were taught the great importance of 1 week checks but is it worth your sanity? Sure do checks on complicated cases but for folks who have worn lenses for years and who looked good and healthy at their exam just release the Rx.

You must realize by now that your coworkers (techs and "opticians") are drastically underpaid and overworked. The area managers understaff the stores but expect the world from the employees. The staff is abused by patients and their employers yet they show up everyday. Treat them well and they in turn will treat you well. Anger them, disrespect them and you're up a creek.

Really, get out now. You can find something better.

I've been out for a year and have been happier.

 

[drbizzaro]

I'm not ragging on commercial but there are a few commercial outlets that I won't work for anymore. America's Best, VisionWorks and the like. Before I step back in a place like that I'd rather go back to my high school job flipping burgers.
.

I have some very close friends who signed on to Americas Best and have been tricked into working for the worst place imaginable. I'm glad that I never ended up going there. Americas Best will be nice during your interview, but once you start working there, you'll end up realizing you work for a place that will treat you worse than your worse enemy. Plus, they lie about the salaries they pay you. I managed to pull their entire salary list, and they lie about their starting salary. They will tell you they pay 95K starting to everyone, but all you need to do is say "screw that" and you can push much more. But regardless, it's a crap place to work for. Christian Schultz is the VP of hiring, and he's full of crap and lies about starting salaries. Also, Neil Croroot, the hiring fellow, will lie about starting salaries as well.

Just a word of advice to anyone who wants to think about Americas Best. I obviously cannot release the entire salary list, but trust me, they lie about all the starting salaries!

 

[drbizzaro]

our company was bull**** and screamed at me to "suck her ****". Then her group of gangbangers followed her out and tried to slam the door

you can always ask your boyfriend/fiance/husband to come in and protect you if he's a tall and muscular guy.... if not, then never mind

 

[Eyegirl2k7]

XmattODx,


Thanks for the advice. I am seriously thinking about getting out. Flipping burgers actually sounded great to me when I read your post. It's funny because I used to think money would solve everything because I was so used to struggling. It doesn't. I actually already dropped my schedule to fewer days and took a $20 000 pay cut because I couldn't take it anymore.

My staff is underpaid and overworked as you say. They live in daily fear of corporate "shops." I don't have an employer OD, it's not independent contracting here; but I am fully expecting to get reamed by corporate for standing up for myself. At least I managed not to raise my voice or say a bad word.

I am just scared about the cls check issue. If someone gets a corneal ulcer and sues me and I didn't follow appropriate standard of care by doing a followup, isn't that my fault???

I apologize if I sounded racist---I didn't mean ghetto in the sense of a particular race, I'm not even sure what exact race the patient was--I don't know a better word for that type of behavior. Uncouth, I guess..the things I see over and over again are just starting to wear on me. I don't think I'm anywhere near as good of a person as I used to be.

I don't know who I am or what I stand for anymore. Some people just got shot in a mall near me--I can't help wondering if the patient is going to come in today and I'll be next...

Dr Bizzaro,

I have close friends who work for America's best too--their situation has been similar to yours. One of my friends quit after four months of being forced to do seven minute eye exams 60 times a day. I hope if you're not out of that situation; you will be soon Good luck.

 

[ohiostateboy]

everyone knows America Best salaries start at $120,000


if you settle for $95,000, you're an idiot


but maybe that's why your working at Americas Best

 

[Eyedoc1999]

everyone knows America Best salaries start at $120,000


if you settle for $95,000, you're an idiot


but maybe that's why your working at Americas Best

Wow, that was helpful. Maybe next time you can unplug your keyboard before typing something stupid.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

Get out....now.

I am a commercial OD and it pains me to see how some of my colleagues allow themselves to be abused. There is no reason on this planet to do a $39 exam. It's bad for you, it's bad for your attitude toward your patients because NO amount of crap is worth $39 and it's bad for your profession. I am a WM OD and I charge $85 for an eyeglass exam and $120 for CL and there is no reason why you shouldn't be doing the same. To be honest, I probably should raise my exam fee a little.

 

[eyestrain]

I am a WM OD and I charge $85 for an eyeglass exam and $120 for CL and there is no reason why you shouldn't be doing the same. To be honest, I probably should raise my exam fee a little.

I think most commercial docs would be out of a lease by the end of the week if they tried that. Sad, but probably true.

 

[mupreopt]

Ask your self: "Am I worth $39?". Raise your exam fee to reflect your level of experience and what you think you are worth.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

I think most commercial docs would be out of a lease by the end of the week if they tried that. Sad, but probably true.

Also, not tried. How do you know?

Part of the problem is that so many do it. If everyone raised their fees across the board, a $39 exam wouldn't exist.

 

[cpw]

I think most commercial docs would be out of a lease by the end of the week if they tried that. Sad, but probably true.

That's where my fees are in a commercial location. $89 eyeglass exam, $129 spherical CL exam.

 

[Eyegirl2k7]

If I was an independent contractor there would probably be something I could do about the eye exam cost--but not here where I am employed. The eye exam cost is consistent across the state. Thankfully, an America's Best opened up across the street from us so hopefully some people will go there instead.

In case anyone's curious--my patient and her friends continued to walk back and forth and back in forth in front of the store for so long after I left that the staff called security. And they had security escort them to their cars. I didn't take my car yesterday-I took a taxi. I'm just glad I didn't get shot.

At least I have the day off today to regroup.

 

[cpw]

If I was an independent contractor there would probably be something I could do about the eye exam cost--but not here where I am employed. The eye exam cost is consistent across the state. Thankfully, an America's Best opened up across the street from us so hopefully some people will go there instead.

In case anyone's curious--my patient and her friends continued to walk back and forth and back in forth in front of the store for so long after I left that the staff called security. And they had security escort them to their cars. I didn't take my car yesterday-I took a taxi. I'm just glad I didn't get shot.

At least I have the day off today to regroup.

Glad you're okay, Eyegirl. I would have been freaking out, too. I think I would have had office security walk me to my car had that been that case. Or, called the cops if they did, indeed, threaten to harm you in any way.

Hope things get better. I'd definitely be looking for another opportunity. *hugs*

 

[Eyedoc1999]

If I was an independent contractor there would probably be something I could do about the eye exam cost--but not here where I am employed. The eye exam cost is consistent across the state. Thankfully, an America's Best opened up across the street from us so hopefully some people will go there instead.

In case anyone's curious--my patient and her friends continued to walk back and forth and back in forth in front of the store for so long after I left that the staff called security. And they had security escort them to their cars. I didn't take my car yesterday-I took a taxi. I'm just glad I didn't get shot.

At least I have the day off today to regroup.

I could never be in a position where I was employed. This is the risk that you run with having the shots called for you (especially by someone that isn't a doctor). I would look for outside opportunities, you can honestly do better. Good luck (and keep your head down).

 

[Ben Chudner]

In case anyone's curious--my patient and her friends continued to walk back and forth and back in forth in front of the store for so long after I left that the staff called security. And they had security escort them to their cars. I didn't take my car yesterday-I took a taxi. I'm just glad I didn't get shot.

I would really start looking for work elsewhere. I realize that it's easy for me to say that because I am not in your situation, but there is no reason you should ever have to deal with this. I can't imagine any job that's worth taking a taxi to so your car won't get stolen or vandalized, and I think it's ridiculous to need security to escort you to your car at night.

 

[IndianaOD]

I would really start looking for work elsewhere. I realize that it's easy for me to say that because I am not in your situation, but there is no reason you should ever have to deal with this. I can't imagine any job that's worth taking a taxi to so your car won't get stolen or vandalized, and I think it's ridiculous to need security to escort you to your car at night.

I completely agree. Look for a private practice to get into. No one should control your $150,000 Ferrari (education) but YOU!

Students, you have to see that even though you think walmart or others look like a good deal, they are really hurting the profession. Soon it won't be long until those "good" commercial jobs go south as we allow more control to be taken from us.

 

[drbizzaro]

On the upside, one more month and my credit card debt that I accumulated from school should be gone...

i was just re-reading this thread - and realized: you must have accumulated about 45,000.00 in credit card purchases! wow! that's sure a lot of shoes or jeans or clothes!

 

[Eyedoc1999]

I completely agree. Look for a private practice to get into. No one should control your $150,000 Ferrari (education) but YOU!

Students, you have to see that even though you think walmart or others look like a good deal, they are really hurting the profession. Soon it won't be long until those "good" commercial jobs go south as we allow more control to be taken from us.

Hey, I know...let's NOT let the control be taken from us! There's a novel idea that I wish more would get on board with. Commercial practices do NOT have to be slave-driven sweat shops (that's what PP ODs hire associates for).

NEWSFLASH: Private practice ODs perpetuate this myth that commercial optometry is bad because otherwise you would question the validity of going to work as an associate in private practice for $70K when you can go into a commercial office and START at $100K and your income is limited ONLY by you.

 

[IndianaOD]

Hey, I know...let's NOT let the control be taken from us! There's a novel idea that I wish more would get on board with. Commercial practices do NOT have to be slave-driven sweat shops (that's what PP ODs hire associates for).

NEWSFLASH: Private practice ODs perpetuate this myth that commercial optometry is bad because otherwise you would question the validity of going to work as an associate in private practice for $70K when you can go into a commercial office and START at $100K and your income is limited ONLY by you.

If Private Practice disappeared applications to OD school would plummet. Doubt the opposite would happen if commercial disappeared.

In 99% of commercial practices they OWN you and can give you the boot with little to no warning.

Income in PP is unlimited, commercial is very limited. Hard to make a fortune with $39 eye exams.

 

[vsarge0708]

If Private Practice disappeared applications to OD school would plummet. Doubt the opposite would happen if commercial disappeared.

In 99% of commercial practices they OWN you and can give you the boot with little to no warning.

Income in PP is unlimited, commercial is very limited. Hard to make a fortune with $39 eye exams.

So would you, and other pp docs in your shoes, bite the bullet and pay a new grad/associate a salary that was competetive to what a commercial joint was offering, or are you perpetuating this commercial problem as well?

 

[eyestrain]

So would you, and other pp docs in your shoes, bite the bullet and pay a new grad/associate a salary that was competetive to what a commercial joint was offering, or are you perpetuating this commercial problem as well?

I think there are few PP that can afford to pay a new grad 90 or 100k right of school to compete with commercial. But you have to be willing to look beyond one or two years in the future. The idea is that you can buy into the practice and ultimately be making much more than you would in commercial and you now own something of some value (and yes, i understand this is ALWAYS how it actually happens, unfortunately).

If you're expecting to make six figures right out of school in PP, there's an America's Best somewhere that would love to talk to you.

 

[vsarge0708]

I think there are few PP that can afford to pay a new grad 90 or 100k right of school to compete with commercial. But you have to be willing to look beyond one or two years in the future. The idea is that you can buy into the practice and ultimately be making much more than you would in commercial and you now own something of some value (and yes, i understand this is ALWAYS how it actually happens, unfortunately).

If you're expecting to make six figures right out of school in PP, there's an America's Best somewhere that would love to talk to you.

Yes and no, the point I'm trying to make is pp docs seem to cast judgement upon commercial docs for taking these relatively high paying corporate positions, but unrightfully so. Fortunately for me I am going to be walking into a pp right out of school, but if I wasn't I would probably have to work commercial to put a dent on the loan debt. How many scams and shams have been done by pp docs promising buy-in or profit sharing within a few years of employment but leave the associate high and dry when it comes time to pay up? Unfortunately I've heard this story more often than a successful partnership or buy-in. So who's really responsible for this corporate travesty? It's def. a two way street.

 

[KHE]

Yes and no, the point I'm trying to make is pp docs seem to cast judgement upon commercial docs for taking these relatively high paying corporate positions, but unrightfully so. Fortunately for me I am going to be walking into a pp right out of school, but if I wasn't I would probably have to work commercial to put a dent on the loan debt. How many scams and shams have been done by pp docs promising buy-in or profit sharing within a few years of employment but leave the associate high and dry when it comes time to pay up? Unfortunately I've heard this story more often than a successful partnership or buy-in. So who's really responsible for this corporate travesty? It's def. a two way street.

It is a two way street, but in this day and age of the internet, there are dozens of forums that you can use to educate yourself so you can avoid those experiences. I've posted my own story on this and other forums. You can learn from the mistakes that I made, and I sure made plenty.

You may be walking into a PP right off the bat, and that's great but in your example where you wouldn't, the biggest mistake you would be making is working commercial and paying off your student loan debt. Don't do it! Spread it out over 30 years, and use the extra cash flow per month to either buy into or start a private practice.

I don't pay associates $100k right out of school. But I do give them a pathway to a multi-six figure income. Commercial practice may pay higher initially but for the vast majority of situations, your income is going to be maxed out right from the start.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

I don't pay associates $100k right out of school. But I do give them a pathway to a multi-six figure income. Commercial practice may pay higher initially but for the vast majority of situations, your income is going to be maxed out right from the start.

It's no surprise that I will respectfully disagree here. The concept of limited income is perpetuated because most commercial ODs leave after 3-5 years out of a perceived lack of equity or control. Most don't stay to reap the fruits of their labor like they would in private practice. How much did you private practice ODs make your first 4 years? How long did it take you to net six figures? You stick with PP because you HAVE to...you have too much invested to leave unlike the commercial setting you left.

Ask those that are successful in commercial leases how they feel about working in a corporate setting. Asking someone that couldn't find their niche is only going to give you a very biased answer. There are plenty of commercial ODs making multiple six figure incomes, but they stayed in and found ways of generating income (such as increasing fees, equipping second exam rooms, hiring associates, multiple leases etc). Your income is limited by your imagination and motivation.

 

[KHE]

It's no surprise that I will respectfully disagree here. The concept of limited income is perpetuated because most commercial ODs leave after 3-5 years out of a perceived lack of equity or control. Most don't stay to reap the fruits of their labor like they would in private practice. How much did you private practice ODs make your first 4 years? How long did it take you to net six figures? You stick with PP because you HAVE to...you have too much invested to leave unlike the commercial setting you left.

Ask those that are successful in commercial leases how they feel about working in a corporate setting. Asking someone that couldn't find their niche is only going to give you a very biased answer. There are plenty of commercial ODs making multiple six figure incomes, but they stayed in and found ways of generating income (such as increasing fees, equipping second exam rooms, hiring associates, multiple leases etc). Your income is limited by your imagination and motivation.

I made multiple six figures from day one, but I bought an existing practice. Most don't stay to reap the fruits of their labor because the majority of them realize that there is far more fruit to be had by going down a different route. Hiring associates, equipping second (or third, fourth, fifth) exam rooms are all things that can easily be done in a private office, without the ever looming threat of the new district manager showing you the door because you wouldn't work Sundays, lower your fees, see more patients per hour, strongly encourage multiple pairs, strongly encourage extra fees for dilation etc. etc.

Also, in a commercial lease there is no perceived lack of equity or control. It's an actual lack of equity and control save for the rarest of situations and even THEN, you can have the most lucrative situation pulled out from under you in a heartbeat. I did it myself when I took over my commercial lease many years ago. The previous doctor had been at that location for 10 years and the optical next door was successful. He was working 32 hours per week, and they wanted 40. He refused, I came along and said I would do it and they unceremoniously showed their "independent doctor of optometry" the door to make room for me. Total value that that doctor received for his "independent optometric practice" was exactly $0.00.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

I made multiple six figures from day one, but I bought an existing practice. Most don't stay to reap the fruits of their labor because the majority of them realize that there is far more fruit to be had by going down a different route. Hiring associates, equipping second (or third, fourth, fifth) exam rooms are all things that can easily be done in a private office, without the ever looming threat of the new district manager showing you the door because you wouldn't work Sundays, lower your fees, see more patients per hour, strongly encourage multiple pairs, strongly encourage extra fees for dilation etc. etc.

Also, in a commercial lease there is no perceived lack of equity or control. It's an actual lack of equity and control save for the rarest of situations and even THEN, you can have the most lucrative situation pulled out from under you in a heartbeat. I did it myself when I took over my commercial lease many years ago. The previous doctor had been at that location for 10 years and the optical next door was successful. He was working 32 hours per week, and they wanted 40. He refused, I came along and said I would do it and they unceremoniously showed their "independent doctor of optometry" the door to make room for me. Total value that that doctor received for his "independent optometric practice" was exactly $0.00.

Again, that is largely geographical. I haven't encountered any of those pressures, nor do I know anyone in this district that has. You could say that we are lucky to have the DM that doesn't do that, but we've had three. The system isn't perfect, but no situation is. Sure you can do all of these revenue generating things in private practice, but the question is timing. How long does it take to build a private practice to the point that it DOES generate that kind of patient base?

As far as equity and security, that is a situation that's under construction. I'm working on some initiatives that would build tenure for established ODs and make these leases marketable (as you well know, since I've posted elsewhere).

 

[KHE]

Again, that is largely geographical. I haven't encountered any of those pressures, nor do I know anyone in this district that has. You could say that we are lucky to have the DM that doesn't do that, but we've had three. The system isn't perfect, but no situation is. Sure you can do all of these revenue generating things in private practice, but the question is timing. How long does it take to build a private practice to the point that it DOES generate that kind of patient base?

As far as equity and security, that is a situation that's under construction. I'm working on some initiatives that would build tenure for established ODs and make these leases marketable (as you well know, since I've posted elsewhere).

Unless you have a clause that says that a new doctor can not be terminated for any reason short of an act of moral turpitude then your plan to sell leases will fail because they will simply have no value if the person buying the lease can be terminated on short notice.

I disagree that it is geographical. I have practiced in three different states on both coasts and the stories are there from all three states. The optometric lexicon is again, filled with all kinds of stories of this happening all over the country. Even in your own state of Texas, two ODs have or are suing Walmart....for what? Being a good corporate partner? I don't think so.

The fact that you haven't had a DM yet who has been difficult means little. The fact that you have had 3 DMs in just 4 years is also worrisome. All it takes in that next go-getter who wants to work their way up the Walmart ladder and decides that Dr. Nelson's exam fees are too high, or that he spends too much time screwing around with his "glaucoma machines" or that the optical at his store isn't quite making the "numbers" that he or she thinks they should and you can be shown the door.

A private practice can be built from 0 to scratch in 5 years easily if you provide actual service and have access to medical insurance billing and a simple plan on how to get there. Not only will you make more money off of exams, actually make money off of your materials, you will actually have something to sell for more than just the records when it's all said and done.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

Unless you have a clause that says that a new doctor can not be terminated for any reason short of an act of moral turpitude then your plan to sell leases will fail because they will simply have no value if the person buying the lease can be terminated on short notice.

I disagree that it is geographical. I have practiced in three different states on both coasts and the stories are there from all three states. The optometric lexicon is again, filled with all kinds of stories of this happening all over the country. Even in your own state of Texas, two ODs have or are suing Walmart....for what? Being a good corporate partner? I don't think so.

The fact that you haven't had a DM yet who has been difficult means little. The fact that you have had 3 DMs in just 4 years is also worrisome. All it takes in that next go-getter who wants to work their way up the Walmart ladder and decides that Dr. Nelson's exam fees are too high, or that he spends too much time screwing around with his "glaucoma machines" or that the optical at his store isn't quite making the "numbers" that he or she thinks they should and you can be shown the door.

A private practice can be built from 0 to scratch in 5 years easily if you provide actual service and have access to medical insurance billing and a simple plan on how to get there. Not only will you make more money off of exams, actually make money off of your materials, you will actually have something to sell for more than just the records when it's all said and done.

Those are exactly the type of clauses I'm working on to protect the buyers and the current lease holders. Given those protections, the DM becomes only marginally influencial. You've seen my outlines to protect the lease holder so I don't need to do it again. Will it change history? No, but I'm more concerned about protecting people in the future. While I disagree about how "common" such practices are, I do see the potential for abuse.

As far as the lawsuits are concerned, I consider them suits of opportunity. The first OD sued almost 3 years after he left and it got settled on a technicality and the second is involved because they settled the first one. Both suits are based on the fact that hours are listed in contracts (those hours are both chosen and filled in by the doctor) and not because they were forced to increase their coverage or because they were forced to really do anything. I've talked to the board myself and even they admit that it's a grey area.

It's garbage to say how easy it is to build a practice in 5 years..if that were true then why do so many go under after 2-3? If it was easy, that wouldn't happen because we're all relatively intelligent people.

 

[IndianaOD]

So would you, and other pp docs in your shoes, bite the bullet and pay a new grad/associate a salary that was competetive to what a commercial joint was offering, or are you perpetuating this commercial problem as well?

If I had the opportunity in the future as my career progresses I would love to take in a younger doc. I'm not making 6 figures my first year out, but my contract has a buy in clause with is worth much more!

 

[IndianaOD]

Again, that is largely geographical. I haven't encountered any of those pressures, nor do I know anyone in this district that has. You could say that we are lucky to have the DM that doesn't do that, but we've had three. The system isn't perfect, but no situation is. Sure you can do all of these revenue generating things in private practice, but the question is timing. How long does it take to build a private practice to the point that it DOES generate that kind of patient base?

As far as equity and security, that is a situation that's under construction. I'm working on some initiatives that would build tenure for established ODs and make these leases marketable (as you well know, since I've posted elsewhere).

Again, Steven I think you are a pretty decent doc. Just wish you weren't working for one of the most negative forces against optometry in history.

If you are limited to one exam room I don't know how you could ever have unlimited potential.

 

[KHE]

Those are exactly the type of clauses I'm working on to protect the buyers and the current lease holders. Given those protections, the DM becomes only marginally influencial. You've seen my outlines to protect the lease holder so I don't need to do it again. Will it change history? No, but I'm more concerned about protecting people in the future. While I disagree about how "common" such practices are, I do see the potential for abuse.

I am highly skeptical about your proposal working. It's a decent idea in theory, but you are essentially bargaining from a position of zero power. Why would Walmart want to give you want you want? There is no real upside for them. As it stands, they have virtually all of the power and the OD has virtually none. The current optometric oversupply doesn't help balance that equation at all.

It's garbage to say how easy it is to build a practice in 5 years..if that were true then why do so many go under after 2-3? If it was easy, that wouldn't happen because we're all relatively intelligent people.

I strongly disagree with that. Most private practices do NOT fail. They simply don't do as well as the original doctor projected because of one or more of any of the following:

1) Poor planning
2) Poor projections, or projections based on fanciful data
3) The doctor simply does "more of the same." That is to say, they try to do it on the cheap, and they do the same things all of the other doctors in town do, and they do them with the same unprofessional, untrained surly staff (usually the wife) that every other doctor does it with.

Doctors may be relatively intelligent in the sense that they are capable of understanding and memorizing a large amount of complex material, but that doesn't mean that they relate well to the average joe, or have any basic understanding of customer service. In fact, many of the other boards and publications are filled with stories of how optometrists, in a desire to gain "more respect" and be "more doctorly" have essentially taken on a "f*** you" attitude when dealing with patients. Well, that's not going to get you too far with anyone and it certainly isn't going to make you any more money.

To give the great Satan it's due, that is something that Walmart does fairly well.

 

[Eyedoc1999]

I am highly skeptical about your proposal working. It's a decent idea in theory, but you are essentially bargaining from a position of zero power. Why would Walmart want to give you want you want? There is no real upside for them. As it stands, they have virtually all of the power and the OD has virtually none. The current optometric oversupply doesn't help balance that equation at all.




I strongly disagree with that. Most private practices do NOT fail. They simply don't do as well as the original doctor projected because of one or more of any of the following:

1) Poor planning
2) Poor projections, or projections based on fanciful data
3) The doctor simply does "more of the same." That is to say, they try to do it on the cheap, and they do the same things all of the other doctors in town do, and they do them with the same unprofessional, untrained surly staff (usually the wife) that every other doctor does it with.

Doctors may be relatively intelligent in the sense that they are capable of understanding and memorizing a large amount of complex material, but that doesn't mean that they relate well to the average joe, or have any basic understanding of customer service. In fact, many of the other boards and publications are filled with stories of how optometrists, in a desire to gain "more respect" and be "more doctorly" have essentially taken on a "f*** you" attitude when dealing with patients. Well, that's not going to get you too far with anyone and it certainly isn't going to make you any more money.

To give the great Satan it's due, that is something that Walmart does fairly well.

Actually, it will work because it benefits WM greatly to have ODs feel more invested in their practices. High turnover doesn't help them and contrary to popular belief they couldn't care less about OD fees. Most ODs pick fees that they feel they can collect, not what someone made them pick. When I've asked others why they are so low they tell me that they looked at what the other offices were charging and stuck to that figure. That explains the similarities of the fees, but no one MADE them do it. Doctor stability builds a solid patient base in any situation and this is no different and WM is starting to realize that if they could establish more "ownership" people would stick around.

 

[gochi]

...have essentially taken on a "f*** you" attitude when dealing with patients.

that's great