Cookies, Doughnuts, Cakes, and Fakes?

[Anastomoses]

Not the first week, but how appropriate or inappropriate would it be to bring small snacks or goodies for other students and nurses periodically during rotations? It's certainly not with any gunnerish type intentions, but just a way to lubricate the environment. Are there certain rotations during which it might be more acceptable?

Would it look fake, trying too hard, put-on and better avoided altogether?

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[Brain Bucket]

It's fine. My gf did it randomly and they loved her for it.

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[SouthernSurgeon]

I've never minded. Def don't do it the first day or week. Also consider communicating with the other students so they don't feel cheated or one-upped (can even do a team snack day or something).

Even mean surgeons like cookies

 

[DermViser]

Not the first week, but how appropriate or inappropriate would it be to bring small snacks or goodies for other students and nurses periodically during rotations? It's certainly not with any gunnerish type intentions, but just a way to lubricate the environment. Are there certain rotations during which it might be more acceptable?

Would it look fake, trying too hard, put-on and better avoided altogether?

I hear the residents on OB-Gyn love it. Do it on the first day to introduce yourself so that residents remember who you are.

 

[Anastomoses]

I hear the residents on OB-Gyn love it. Do it on the first day to introduce yourself so that residents remember who you are.

I just might get them custom-made with diapers and those little things babies hold and shake. Hater.

 

[swoopyswoop]

If you're with other students, go in on it together. If you show up with cookies and the other M3 doesn't you could very well come off as a gunner who is trying to make your classmate look bad.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Not the first week, but how appropriate or inappropriate would it be to bring small snacks or goodies for other students and nurses periodically during rotations? It's certainly not with any gunnerish type intentions, but just a way to lubricate the environment. Are there certain rotations during which it might be more acceptable?

Would it look fake, trying too hard, put-on and better avoided altogether?

The fact that you're doing to "lubricate the environment" makes me think you shouldn't do it. The only time this is appropriate is because you genuinely just want to do it for no other reason than just to do it. At the end of some rotations, I brought in goodies and left them in the resident room as a thank you. I gave the attendings a thank you card (since there were much fewer attendings than residents) and mentioned that there were goodies in the resident room. If there were other students on the service (almost always), I always, always, always coordinated with them. Never do it on your own if there's another student on the service. Do it together during the last week week of the rotation.

 

[Anastomoses]

The fact that you're doing to "lubricate the environment" makes me think you shouldn't do it. The only time this is appropriate is because you genuinely just want to do it for no other reason than just to do it. At the end of some rotations, I brought in goodies and left them in the resident room as a thank you. I gave the attendings a thank you card (since there were much fewer attendings than residents) and mentioned that there were goodies in the resident room. If there were other students on the service (almost always), I always, always, always coordinated with them. Never do it on your own if there's another student on the service. Do it together during the last week week of the rotation.

I think you might be onto me. By lubricate i definitely mean to have a softer and gentler disposition from nurses and staff. It does have an agenda. I'm not interested in spending $20 every week just to make them happier. I do want a responsive gentler staff that i can befriend and giggle with rather than shyly approach.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I think you might be onto me. By lubricate i definitely mean to have a softer and gentler disposition from nurses and staff. It does have an agenda. I'm not interested in spending $20 every week just to make them happier. I do want a responsive gentler staff that i can befriend and giggle with rather than shyly approach.

No reason to shyly approach them. If you have ulterior motives, they will know and it will have the opposite affect. I wouldn't do it. If, at the end of the rotation, you're sincerely grateful to the nurses or residents, such a gesture could be done as a thank you, but I wouldn't do it at the start of the rotation to break the ice. Instead, break the ice by meeting them and shaking their hands, asking their names (you'd be amazed how many nurses told me that students never even bothered to learn their names), and being humble. At this stage of your education, the nurses know more than you do. Make it clear you're there to learn and ask for help when you need it. Some of my best rotations were the ones in which the nurses trusted me enough to ask me if I wanted to order such and such for a patient. I was always shocked because I don't have the authority to order ice chips. But they'd ask because they said they trusted my judgment (toward the end of third year) and they wanted me to get more comfortable with it too. They also used to whisper to me in the corner about pimp questions/answers certain attendings were famous for asking so I'd be prepared on rounds.

The point is, never underestimate the value of the nurses. You don't need to suck up to them with goodies. Just have a good attitude and treat them well. They'll do the same.

 

[Anastomoses]

Some of my best rotations were the ones in which the nurses trusted me enough to ask me if I wanted to order such and such for a patient. I was always shocked because I don't have the authority to order ice chips. But they'd ask because they said they trusted my judgment (toward the end of third year) and they wanted me to get more comfortable with it too. They also used to whisper to me in the corner about pimp questions/answers certain attendings were famous for asking so I'd be prepared on rounds.

The point is, never underestimate the value of the nurses. You don't need to suck up to them with goodies. Just have a good attitude and treat them well. They'll do the same.

Ice chips was my favorite part.

I'm willing to suck up to them with both goodies + attitude

 

[DermViser]

I just might get them custom-made with diapers and those little things babies hold and shake. Hater.

Um, you mean a rattle? Can't believe you don't know that word.

 

[DermViser]

I think you might be onto me. By lubricate i definitely mean to have a softer and gentler disposition from nurses and staff. It does have an agenda. I'm not interested in spending $20 every week just to make them happier. I do want a responsive gentler staff that i can befriend and giggle with rather than shyly approach.

Like I said - residents know the game already, bc they were med students at one time too. They can see it from a mile away.

 

[Wordead]

OBGYN nurses do love that crap. They just sit there, graze, and bitch about their husbands.

 

[evilbooyaa]

OBGYN nurses do love that crap. They just sit there, graze, and bitch about their husbands.

Don't forget bitching about the residents behind their back.

Seems like all of OB/GYN is people bitching behind each other's backs, then being friendly to their face.

 

[DermViser]

Don't forget bitching about the residents behind their back.

Seems like all of OB/GYN is people bitching behind each other's backs, then being friendly to their face.

Pretty much: http://theunderweardrawer.homestead.com/obgyn1.html

 

[Anastomoses]

Um, you mean a rattle? Can't believe you don't know that word.
View attachment 181665

I couldn't remember the name for it. I even googled "baby shaker" when I made that post and couldn't find anything except some controversial google app.

But that is the exact color scheme I'm thinking for the cookies.

In first year I had leukocyte cookies made for the physio department. Platelets too.

 

[Doctorman45342]

Forget cookies, buy everyone in the hospital a steak dinner

 

[redpanda]

It's usually welcome. However, on one rotation, my med student compatriot took my bringing cookies as a challenge and showed up two days later with gourmet pastry from an amazing local shop. Gunner.

 

[alpinism]

Forget cookies, buy everyone in the hospital a steak dinner

Exactly.

Show some class.

Get each attending (especially the ones writing your evals) their own personalized bottle of Dom Perignon

 

[neusu]

Not the first week, but how appropriate or inappropriate would it be to bring small snacks or goodies for other students and nurses periodically during rotations? It's certainly not with any gunnerish type intentions, but just a way to lubricate the environment. Are there certain rotations during which it might be more acceptable?

Would it look fake, trying too hard, put-on and better avoided altogether?

As a resident I do this on a regular basis. Box of doughnuts here, plate of homemade cookies there == less bull**** pages.

 

[Nasrudin]

As a resident I do this on a regular basis. Box of doughnuts here, plate of homemade cookies there == less bullcrap pages.

This is exactly right.

Anast, there's absolutely nothing wrong with friendly manipulation. It's what we all do. You would just be more deliberate about it by giving people warm feelings from a food gift.

In bonobo culture, the matriarch is in charge of the food, and she gives it out to each member of the group as a way of solidifying bonds and conferring rank emanating from her's. I see this as a power move of underestimated and subtle persuasion despite it's obvious symbolism.

Do we imagine pharmaceutical companies are hapless amateurs by giving out free meals to clinicians. And that this "lubrication" just happens to come from an attractive female? It's expert tactics, make no mistake.

In the game of power, which is exactly what the giving and "earning" of an evaluation is, you're either playing or imagining you're not, or getting played.

It might be more strategic in the long run to coordinate with colleagues as you will need them down the road and it always looks better that you bring good team play to your own work.


Truthfully, I only did this when my team decided to do it, but that was just because I didn't feel like putting forth the effort, not because I don't see it as an effective technique.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

In bonobo culture, the matriarch is in charge of the food, and she gives it out to each member of the group as a way of solidifying bonds and conferring rank emanating from her's. I see this as a power move of underestimated and subtle persuasion despite it's obvious symbolism.

Lol...bonobo also have sex to say hello, when they're excited, when they're angry, and when they're sad.

Those crazy mammals.

 

[Jwalker]

Lol...bonobo also have sex to say hello, when they're excited, when they're angry, and when they're sad.

Those crazy mammals.

Sounds like every med student.

 

[styphon]

No reason to shyly approach them. If you have ulterior motives, they will know and it will have the opposite affect. I wouldn't do it. If, at the end of the rotation, you're sincerely grateful to the nurses or residents, such a gesture could be done as a thank you, but I wouldn't do it at the start of the rotation to break the ice. Instead, break the ice by meeting them and shaking their hands, asking their names (you'd be amazed how many nurses told me that students never even bothered to learn their names), and being humble. At this stage of your education, the nurses know more than you do. Make it clear you're there to learn and ask for help when you need it. Some of my best rotations were the ones in which the nurses trusted me enough to ask me if I wanted to order such and such for a patient. I was always shocked because I don't have the authority to order ice chips. But they'd ask because they said they trusted my judgment (toward the end of third year) and they wanted me to get more comfortable with it too. They also used to whisper to me in the corner about pimp questions/answers certain attendings were famous for asking so I'd be prepared on rounds.

The point is, never underestimate the value of the nurses. You don't need to suck up to them with goodies. Just have a good attitude and treat them well. They'll do the same.

I loved OB during medical school (I think I was the only male in my class who liked it). I even did 2 additional OB rotations..

BUT... I lack the ability to "suck up", I forget to do the small talk/compliments/bringing in food. This did not seem to matter in this rotation - I think my genuine interest and the fact I hung around while other medical students "magically disappeared" helped me establish rapport with the nursing staff and with the residents.

One thing I would do is tell the other students before bringing in food - if not it feels like you are trying to "one up" the rest, which can create bitter feelings.

 

[evilbooyaa]

It's usually welcome. However, on one rotation, my med student compatriot took my bringing cookies as a challenge and showed up two days later with gourmet pastry from an amazing local shop. Gunner.

Probably b/c you didn't tell them you were bringing in cookies prior to bringing them in.

Gunner.

 

[tco]

I think it depends on the size of your hospital and medical teams. If you're in a smaller setting with very few medical students (like I was... Medicine was one third and one fourth year per team), go ahead and buy some for the team after a week or so. My hospital is decent sized, and our patients are spread out, so I never saw the nurses enough on a regular basis for them to know who I was, or to care if I actually brought them something out of kindness. So I guess what I'm saying is just use common sense. If the team is big and you'll make fellow students look bad, don't do it without mentioning it to them first.

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[SouthernSurgeon]

It's usually welcome. However, on one rotation, my med student compatriot took my bringing cookies as a challenge and showed up two days later with gourmet pastry from an amazing local shop. Gunner.

We had a student from another institution rotating at my hospital for peds. On the last day of the clerkship she brought in a giant custom cookie basket with hand written thank you notes for the attending and residents, and each of the team member's names written on one of the cookies...except for mine and the other M3 from our school.

Fortunately our residents were reasonable humans. After said student left for the day all they could talk about was how ridiculous it was.

 

[Anastomoses]

We had a student from another institution rotating at my hospital for peds. On the last day of the clerkship she brought in a giant custom cookie basket with hand written thank you notes for the attending and residents, and each of the team member's names written on one of the cookies...except for mine and the other M3 from our school.

Fortunately our residents were reasonable humans. After said student left for the day all they could talk about was how ridiculous it was.

Ouch. She didn't even pretend to be good-natured.

 

[DermViser]

We had a student from another institution rotating at my hospital for peds. On the last day of the clerkship she brought in a giant custom cookie basket with hand written thank you notes for the attending and residents, and each of the team member's names written on one of the cookies...except for mine and the other M3 from our school.

Fortunately our residents were reasonable humans. After said student left for the day all they could talk about was how ridiculous it was.

Wow, so glad your residents at the time saw thru that. Maybe she thought she could get away with it bc she was pretty? I'm always amazed at what MS-3 students pull on rotations and think that residents are somehow oblivious to that **** (whether it's overly brown nosing or lying about having "lecture", etc.)

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Wow, so glad your residents at the time saw thru that. Maybe she thought she could get away with it bc she was pretty? I'm always amazed at what MS-3 students pull on rotations and think that residents are somehow oblivious to that **** (whether it's overly brown nosing or lying about having "lecture", etc.)

She was from a much lower rated medical school and was clearly hoping to someday match at my place (although she was only an M3 at the time). She overall had a chip on her shoulder the whole month and did not impress the residents. She was not particularly attractive.

 

[DermViser]

She was from a much lower rated medical school and was clearly hoping to someday match at my place (although she was only an M3 at the time). She overall had a chip on her shoulder the whole month and did not impress the residents. She was not particularly attractive.

I didn't know teaching hospitals shared different U.S. medical schools for MS-3s. This must have been in NY.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I didn't know teaching hospitals shared different U.S. medical schools for MS-3s. This must have been in NY.

This was the children's hospital attached to my medical school (both in name and physically attached). My understanding is the other school has no affiliated children's hospital so they send their students to one of several other sites for their inpatient peds rotations.

 

[DermViser]

This was the children's hospital attached to my medical school (both in name and physically attached). My understanding is the other school has no affiliated children's hospital so they send their students to one of several other sites for their inpatient peds rotations.

Ah ok. Makes much more sense.

 

[Rendar5]

honestly, it's a good idea to socially lubricate with food. it wont' replace anything or make up for anything, nor should it be over the top like the above example, but it'll definitely help put you in good graces and get the nurses to have your back a little more.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I didn't know teaching hospitals shared different U.S. medical schools for MS-3s. This must have been in NY.

happens in Chicago too.

 

[Anastomoses]

honestly, it's a good idea to socially lubricate with food. it wont' replace anything or make up for anything, nor should it be over the top like the above example, but it'll definitely help put you in good graces and get the nurses to have your back a little more.

I didn't really even consider lubricating residents/attendings at all. I was actually thinking more about fellow MS-3s and nurses. You know, people whose power over your life is more subtle and sinister.

 

[DermViser]

I didn't really even consider lubricating residents/attendings at all.

 

[colbgw02]

Someone say lubricate again.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Did someone say lube?

 

[Nasrudin]

Repping the lubrication nation.

 

[tco]

There should be enough natural lubrication that you don't need artificial means. If this isn't obtained, try some additional crowd pleasing measures beforehand.

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[MilkIsGood]

happens in Chicago too.

At which hospital? Only one I can think of would be cook county

 

[notbobtrustme]

At which hospital? Only one I can think of would be cook county

yea, cook county, mercy, lutheran general IIRC all share students from RFU, UIC, and CCOM.

 

[DermViser]

yea, cook county, mercy, lutheran general IIRC all share students from RFU, UIC, and CCOM.

Go figure, the bad hospitals.

 

[Wordead]

Go figure, the bad hospitals.

Everyone who wants to do surg specialties/ER/trauma wants to rotate at Cook because it's really high volume and poorly staffed so you can do a ton. Nice hospitals are ****ty training grounds, IMO.

 

[DermViser]

Everyone who wants to do surg specialties/ER/trauma wants to rotate at Cook because it's really high volume and poorly staffed so you can do a ton. Nice hospitals are ****** training grounds, IMO.

Correct, for those specialties maybe. However, once you're a resident, where you have actual clinical responsibility, you'll appreciate the times of not having to do your own blood draws or wheel a patient into Radiology, etc. when you have tons of much more important **** to do.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Correct, for those specialties maybe. However, once you're a resident, where you have actual clinical responsibility, you'll appreciate the times of not having to do your own blood draws or wheel a patient into Radiology, etc. when you have tons of much more important **** to do.

That...and I generally find that students who do rotations at those hospitals tend to use the "we get such great hands on experience" as a crutch to try and make themselves feel better about being at a lower ranked school. It's a defense mechanism, similar to DOs trying to say they are more holistic.

 

[DermViser]

That...and I generally find that students who do rotations at those hospitals tend to use the "we get such great hands on experience" as a crutch to try and make themselves feel better about being at a lower ranked school. It's a defense mechanism, similar to DOs trying to say they are more holistic.

I like how the "we get such great hands on experience" buzzword tagline changes so much from premed to med student to resident. It's easy to like "hands on experience" when you're a medical student and have no actual clinical responsibility, to where your only job is analogous to a kindergartner not eating glue. Sometimes I seriously think the level of self-imposed Stockholm syndrome is amazing.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Go figure, the bad hospitals.

ouch that's legit though.

Although crook county isn't too bad to rotate through. Residency? IMG mill at it's finest.

 

[DermViser]

ouch that's legit though.

Although crook county isn't too bad to rotate through. Residency? IMG mill at it's finest.

Yup Cook (lol Crook) County is exactly what I was referring to. For all that "clinical experience" that med students rave about, they don't want to go there for residency.