Contacting progs before interview offer?

[The kitchen sink]

Does it make a difference? Esp if it a place you really want to interview at?

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[Iamnotme]

Does it make a difference? Esp if it a place you really want to interview at?

Others may disagree with me, but I say do it. When there are lots of applications unless yours stands out it may get overlooked. If you tell a program you really want to go there and you are a good candidate, you may get an IV when otherwise you may not. It's not just whether you are a good candidate, sometimes they review apps, fill their slots and you have to wait for a cancellation even if you otherwise couldh ave interviewed.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Others may disagree with me, but I say do it. When there are lots of applications unless yours stands out it may get overlooked. If you tell a program you really want to go there and you are a good candidate, you may get an IV when otherwise you may not. It's not just whether you are a good candidate, sometimes they review apps, fill their slots and you have to wait for a cancellation even if you otherwise couldh ave interviewed.

How would I do this? via e-mail to PC or PD?

 

[Iamnotme]

How would I do this? via e-mail to PC or PD?

I would email the PD directly. The Pc will likely just either not answer, ignore the email or give you a generic reply or simply put a note in your file that you contacted the program.

I have contacted some PDs of programs that I am interested in, several have replied, and I even got an IV the day after I emailed one of them.

I don't see how it can hurt. As long as you are polite, professional and don't beg, but sound polished, well put together and send a BRIEF email (not a long novel!) I don't think it can hurt.

If it does I don't think you really want to go there.

Even if it's neutral it may get your app looked at with no real change. Again I thinkthere is little chance of it hurting.

However be ready to get no replies and certainly don't email more than once. That would be annoying.

 

[gutonc]

Others may disagree with me, but I say do it. When there are lots of applications unless yours stands out it may get overlooked. If you tell a program you really want to go there and you are a good candidate, you may get an IV when otherwise you may not. It's not just whether you are a good candidate, sometimes they review apps, fill their slots and you have to wait for a cancellation even if you otherwise couldh ave interviewed.

If you are a good candidate, you will get an interview. If you are a "bad" candidate, you'll just get your rejection that much more quickly. If you're a borderline candidate, contacting them at this point is likely to put you in the "annoying D-bag" category and tip you over into the "do not invite" pile. If you haven't heard anything 2-3 weeks after the MSPE comes out and you know that others are getting IVs at the same program, then go for it. But not now.

 

[Iamnotme]

If you are a good candidate, you will get an interview. If you are a "bad" candidate, you'll just get your rejection that much more quickly. If you're a borderline candidate, contacting them at this point is likely to put you in the "annoying D-bag" category and tip you over into the "do not invite" pile. If you haven't heard anything 2-3 weeks after the MSPE comes out and you know that others are getting IVs at the same program, then go for it. But not now.

I did preempt this with "others may disagree with me."

I know you disagree with me gutonc. I respect your disagreement.

From personal experience (n=1), this has worked for me. Then again I would say I'm a pretty particular individual and I've done many things that are considered "taboo" when it comes to application time that have worked out, but I don't agree with the whole don't contact programs. If you are interested do it I say.

If someone is offended or thinks you are a Dbag for telling them you like their program there is something wrong with the program.

 

[mvenus929]

My impression last interview season (as I watched the fourth years go through this) was that if you didn't get an interview to somewhere you wanted to go, you'd talk to your adviser(s), and someone would make a phone call to someone they knew and put in a good word for you. But maybe this is just the culture at my school.

One of my Gyn Onc attendings offered to do that for a visiting fourth year the first week she was on service. Said attending is now the PD of our school's OB-GYN program, so she has some connections. And one of my PICU attendings made a comment about knowing lots of people in CA to get me interviews. Pretty sure our PD also mentioned something about it when we had our 'how to get into a peds residency' session earlier this year.

 

[Iamnotme]

My impression last interview season (as I watched the fourth years go through this) was that if you didn't get an interview to somewhere you wanted to go, you'd talk to your adviser(s), and someone would make a phone call to someone they knew and put in a good word for you. But maybe this is just the culture at my school.

One of my Gyn Onc attendings offered to do that for a visiting fourth year the first week she was on service. Said attending is now the PD of our school's OB-GYN program, so she has some connections. And one of my PICU attendings made a comment about knowing lots of people in CA to get me interviews. Pretty sure our PD also mentioned something about it when we had our 'how to get into a peds residency' session earlier this year.

Perhaps your school is small who knows, but I have not heard of this frequently. My school was rather large, and our advisors were frequently in random specialties, not necessarily our specialty of choice. Also most of us did not have close relationships with our advisors at all. An for "someone to make a call" they would have to know you well, think you rock, care to take the time to do this, and actually have some pull. Having a random attending call a program will not be of much benefit. Also putting in a good word does not necessarily turn into an IV unless a number of things happen.

Also, no offense, but it's not particularly hard to get into a peds residency, so I don't that many people need calls made on their behalf for peds.

 

[mvenus929]

Perhaps your school is small who knows, but I have not heard of this frequently. My school was rather large, and our advisors were frequently in random specialties, not necessarily our specialty of choice. Also most of us did not have close relationships with our advisors at all. An for "someone to make a call" they would have to know you well, think you rock, care to take the time to do this, and actually have some pull. Having a random attending call a program will not be of much benefit. Also putting in a good word does not necessarily turn into an IV unless a number of things happen.

Also, no offense, but it's not particularly hard to get into a peds residency, so I don't that many people need calls made on their behalf for peds.

Your residency advisers weren't in your chosen specialty? That seems really counter-intuitive.

You offered your opinion, which was against that of the attending, and I offered mine. Considering I first heard of this practice on OB-GYN, and not peds, I thought it was more universal. I haven't really explored other specialties at my school, because I never had any desire to go into IM or Derm or whatnot, so I don't know if this practice is generalizable. No need to get all uppity about it.

 

[Iamnotme]

Your residency advisers weren't in your chosen specialty? That seems really counter-intuitive.

You offered your opinion, which was against that of the attending, and I offered mine. Considering I first heard of this practice on OB-GYN, and not peds, I thought it was more universal. I haven't really explored other specialties at my school, because I never had any desire to go into IM or Derm or whatnot, so I don't know if this practice is generalizable. No need to get all uppity about it.

Perhaps you knew what you were going into as an M-1, I and most of my colleagues, did not. Anyways, I'm just giving you advise. You can take it or leave it. I'm telling you something that has worked for me as an applicant.

I think that once again, unless you are really spectacular, your attending who will make a call for you is spectacular and has pull in that particular specialty, most people don't have calls made on their behalf. In some small fields like derm, rad onc, etc. calls may make a difference since a lot of people know each other given how tiny the fields are. In peds and OB, it's not typical for calls to be made unless you are trying to get into a very high end program. Most people going into those fields can get in moderately easily. Not being "uppity" at all, just giving you sound advice. If you want to have someone make a call for you, no one is stopping you. It's just not typical for most people unless going into a very competitive field, and peds is certainly not competitive. Nothing wrong with peds, it's just not competitive and if you are an American grad, it's highly unlikely you would need anyone to make a call for you in order to get into a solid program.

Good luck.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Let's say you know people who are hearing back from a certain program that you would like to interview at, is that enough of a reason to contact said program now or still wait? My fear is interview slots filling up.

 

[cerebral edema]

I sent an email to my #1 program and expressed interest to the PC a few weeks after submitting an application (and not receiving an interview) I was given an interview minutes later with only 2-3 dates left. I accepted one of the dates, went to the interview, ranked them number one, and here I am.

 

[Iamnotme]

I sent an email to my #1 program and expressed interest to the PC a few weeks after submitting an application (and not receiving an interview) I was given an interview minutes later with only 2-3 dates left. I accepted one of the dates, went to the interview, ranked them number one, and here I am.

This precisely! I did exactly the same thing, emailed a PD about I program I am very much interested in and next day boom! They also did not have many dates left. Sometimes when there are lots of apps, you need to draw attention to yours, even if you are a good candidate.

I have a firm belief that not all apps are reviewed. Once slots start filling up, it seems programs kind of stop looking at apps for the most part and re look if they have cancellations which I guess is not unreasonable. There is a "no" pile, a "yes" pile and a "maybe" pile. Usually the absolutely yes and no ones get IVs or rejections right away and the maybes usually make it if there are cancellations.

If a program gets offended by someone saying hey! i think your program is great I would love to go there! Then there is something really wrong with the program and you should avoid it.

It's as if someone says hey you did a great job! and you get offended.

 

[Johhny5Alive]

@iamnotme and @cerebraledema
When are you suggesting it is appropriate to contact these programs? Keep in mind MSPE's were sent out today.

 

[RangerBob]

Let's say you know people who are hearing back from a certain program that you would like to interview at, is that enough of a reason to contact said program now or still wait? My fear is interview slots filling up.

I don't think I started making calls until a few weeks after invites for the program seemed to be going out, and I called programs up until around Mid-Dec (since a number said to just check back in a week or two, which I did, and that paid off at least twice).

Even if programs are done sending out initial invites, if you're an applicant they're still considering interviewing and have wait-listed, calling might help you when it comes to sending out invites after a cancellation. If you're polite and sincere (and not annoying--calls/e-mails can annoy the coordinators if you don't do it right!) then I found the coordinators were often very willing to help me out.

I'd just encourage people to be very careful with calling programs--you have to accept the risk that calling the program might actually hurt you, so that's why I think it's helpful to wait until they've been handing out invites for a bit. The coordinator often has a lot more power than we think they do. I know because I used to be one Well, a fellowship coordinator, but that's pretty similar. And I helped out the program coordinator. Program directors often get a lot of input from their coordinator(s). And lots of people did annoy me with their calls/e-mails--honestly not everyone can pull it off. If you're going to contact a program, I'd also recommend calling--e-mails are very impersonal, can easily be copied and pasted/mass generated, and in addition are also really easy to miss/ignore. I know e-mails have worked for some people, but I think a call is much more likely to help.

Still, I think it's good to wait until after the program has started sending out invites for 2-3 weeks. Like gutonc mentioned, if you're a good applicant, you'll get an interview without having to contact the program. If you're a poor applicant, you won't. Contacting a program only helps if you're on the fence ("wait-list material"). And it can help quite a bit in those circumstances if done right. I agree with glutonc that you're more likely to get tossed aside into the "annoying/do-not-interview" pile if you contact the program prior to interview hand-outs. Unless you're just inquiring about interview dates (not all programs list them, but only ask if it's a small program with only a few dates) or have a question about the program not answered on the website--I personally think that's ok. But not the "can I check on the status of my application?"

There are other schools of though--that's just mine.

 

[Iamnotme]

@iamnotme and @cerebraledema
When are you suggesting it is appropriate to contact these programs? Keep in mind MSPE's were sent out today.

My advice-if you see others getting IVs, and you are interested in the program (don't do this if you are not truly interested and is a backup, it'll annoy them if you cancel later on and can take the IV day from someone who may be interested), go ahead and politely call the PC. If you have been rejected I would not bother emailing PD.

If your stuff has not been reviewed or if no decision has been made yet, then I would email PD then. But wait until IVs start going out. Programs are different, some give out IVs super early, others in the middle and others late. No point in freaking out if no one else is getting IVs.

But certainly if you see others saying they got IVs if you wait too long the spots may fill and you don't want to be that person that may have been invited but now it's too late or on the wait list.

 

[bowlofmushypeas]

@iamnotme and @cerebraledema
When are you suggesting it is appropriate to contact these programs? Keep in mind MSPE's were sent out today.

I have the same question - also, is this timing program dependent? In other words, for specialties that lean towards earlier invites, is now already the time to contact PDs?

 

[Violeta000]

Thank you for the information. Just one question, when I call/email what exactly should I say. I don't want to be pushy or disrespectful so was wondering if there was a better way to do it. I am an IMG and have no IV yet so I could use some help.

Thanks again

 

[natusss]

I have a similar question... I have an interview Nov. 4th in a state far away from mine and I really want to interview at another program in that state but have not heard back from. When is it ok to email them?
Thanks!


They sent me an interview invite today - so yeah

 

[eastcoastdr]

I jumped the gun and emailed my #1 program 5 days after MSPE went out (on a Friday). Totally forgot that MSPEs only went out a few days earlier, but I got anxious knowing that other students already got invites. Got a generic response back within the hour thanking me for my interest, and felt REALLY stupid for emailing so quickly. On Monday (today!), got the interview invite. I have a pretty good connection to this place, and I mentioned it in my email. I mean I really do think it helps to email. It can't hurt as long as you write a brief, polite email expressing your interest.

As someone said earlier in this thread...why WOULDN'T a program want to interview you if you specifically say you want to work there (provided you fit their other qualifications, board scores and all)?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As someone said earlier in this thread...why WOULDN'T a program want to interview you if you specifically say you want to work there (provided you fit their other qualifications, board scores and all)?

Because everyone says this.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Come January or February when you start asking, "should I send a #1 email?" And someone says, "why wouldn't a program take that seriously?" Here's your answer:

Because everyone says this.

I saved you some future trouble aPD.

 

[Iamnotme]

Because everyone says this.

Not really. I applied to a significant # of programs, but have only contacted a handful that I would really like to go to. I think most people do this. I doubt most people contact all programs they have applied to.

 

[Iamnotme]

Come January or February when you start asking, "should I send a #1 email?" And someone says, "why wouldn't a program take that seriously?" Here's your answer:



I saved you some future trouble aPD.

Disagree. Are you suggesting that people send all the programs they interviewed at a #1 email? I didn't, and I would doubt most people just send a bunch of #1 rank emails.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

Disagree. Are you suggesting that people send all the programs they interviewed at a #1 email? I didn't, and I would doubt most people just send a bunch of #1 rank emails.

Not sure how you gathered that from what I said. I was more suggesting the fact that it probably isn't as helpful as most people think to send a #1 email.

 

[gutonc]

Disagree. Are you suggesting that people send all the programs they interviewed at a #1 email? I didn't, and I would doubt most people just send a bunch of #1 rank emails.

So this is your first time at the rodeo then? I'm going to guess the number is in the range of 30-60% depending on specialty.

 

[Siggy]

Disagree. Are you suggesting that people send all the programs they interviewed at a #1 email? I didn't, and I would doubt most people just send a bunch of #1 rank emails.

Because ERAS isn't AMCAS 2: Electric Boogaloo?

 

[eastcoastdr]

Because everyone says this.

I understand what you are saying. But I still think it's worth it to write emails to 2-3 of your top choices.

As an IMG I applied to 70+ places, no way in hell am I crafting personal emails for all of those programs. At most... 3, including the one I already emailed.

 

[The kitchen sink]

I understand what you are saying. But I still think it's worth it to write emails to 2-3 of your top choices.

As an IMG I applied to 70+ places, no way in hell am I crafting personal emails for all of those programs. At most... 3, including the one I already emailed.

Did you email the PD or the PC?

 

[eastcoastdr]

Did you email the PD or the PC?

I emailed the PC. I thought emailing the PD was a little too presumptuous.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I emailed the PC. I thought emailing the PD was a little too presumptuous.

Presumptuous? Why-that's the person you want to contact as he/she is going to be in the position of making the rank list. You have no idea whether the PC will make any mention of your letter to the people that count.

I am assuming of course, that you've already interviewed at that program. Otherwise it would be presumptuous to tell the program theyre your top choice when you've never even been there.

 

[jwalker12]

When you email the PD, what do you put as the subject to make sure they open it? Also any suggestions on what to write within the email. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[doopdidoop]

Presumptuous? Why-that's the person you want to contact as he/she is going to be in the position of making the rank list. You have no idea whether the PC will make any mention of your letter to the people that count.

I am assuming of course, that you've already interviewed at that program. Otherwise it would be presumptuous to tell the program theyre your top choice when you've never even been there.

Dr. Cox, how would you suggest expressing interest in a program via email before an interview invite goes out? assuming that it's been at least 2-3 weeks after the mspe has gone out?

my dean told me that it's possible that programs may look at my application and wonder why i would look so far out since i've applied mostly outside my home school's region. she said that i could consider letting programs know that i really am serious about relocation and may have regional ties to their institution. is it even worth it to do this? i'm sorry about the stupid questions but i'm getting conflicting advice from my dean of students, PD, advisor, etc and just wanted to get some clarity!

 

[katiesb]

Can we get a consensus on whether it is better to call or email? And should you contact the program coordinator or program director?

 

[Iamnotme]

Can we get a consensus on whether it is better to call or email? And should you contact the program coordinator or program director?

Dude, don't call. Calling the PC other than to inquire about your app quickly or set up an interview invite is pretty pointless. Expressing your interest to the PC is pointless. Write the PD directly. Do not call the PD - not only will it be awkward, you may catch him/her at a bad time, and it's super weird. Email is your friend.

 

[katiesb]

Ok thank you! I emailed a few programs in my dream location because I didn't think my application made it clear that I was more than OK with moving across this country. I got two responses right away, no invites yet tho. Thanks!

 

[foodle]

When you email the PD, what do you put as the subject to make sure they open it?

I AM IN YOUR HOUSE PETTING YOUR DOG

Geez, this is getting a bit stalker-ish...

 

[The kitchen sink]

Ok thank you! I emailed a few programs in my dream location because I didn't think my application made it clear that I was more than OK with moving across this country. I got two responses right away, no invites yet tho. Thanks!

Nice! What did you put in the Subject line? And maybe basic structure of the email?

Thanks

 

[The kitchen sink]

Apparently for one of the programs I am interested in, they only provide us with the email to contact the PC. I don't know what to do in this scenario. Ask for the PD's email or email her with my intent to interview with the program?

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Apparently for one of the programs I am interested in, they only provide us with the email to contact the PC. I don't know what to do in this scenario. Ask for the PD's email or email her with my intent to interview with the program?

If they only gave you the PC's email address, then that right there should tell you they don't want people emailing the PD. To write to ask for the PD's email address would be a bad move, imo. Also, this is not an intent to interview letter you're talking about. That would be way too presumptuous. You write to tell them of your interest. A letter of intent is telling them that you intend to interview there and would only come after you've been offered an interview.

 

[Winged Scapula]

There is no such thing as an "intent to interview letter." This is not premed.

The only reason to contact a program before interview is if there were an egregious error in your application or if you were going to be in the area interviewing with another program and wished to know if they would offer you one as well. Please do not contact program directors are coordinators to tell them at this point how much you want to interview there.

As someone noted above this is getting rather stalker-ish. You've never been to the program so you have no idea whether or not you really wish to be there. Please do not send letters telling of your intent to interview; do not send emails until after you have interviewed and you wish to drop a short line thanking them for the opportunity to interview.

 

[deleted280727]

There is no such thing as an "intent to interview letter." This is not premed.

The only reason to contact a program before interview is if there were an egregious error in your application or if you were going to be in the area interviewing with another program and wished to know if they would offer you one as well. Please do not contact program directors are coordinators to tell them at this point how much you want to interview there.

As someone noted above this is getting rather stalker-ish. You've never been to the program so you have no idea whether or not you really wish to be there. Please do not send letters telling of your intent to interview; do not send emails until after you have interviewed and you wish to drop a short line thanking them for the opportunity to interview.

Winged Scapula, what is your opinion on contacting a PD of the program you are presently doing an away rotation in? I am two weeks into the rotation, and now having decided I love the program, I am eager to express my interest and ingratiate myself, but would be hesitant to pester myself out of a great program.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Winged Scapula, what is your opinion on contacting a PD of the program you are presently doing an away rotation in? I am two weeks into the rotation, and now having decided I love the program, I am eager to express my interest and ingratiate myself, but would be hesitant to pester myself out of a great program.

I think that's perfectly acceptable.

Many programs will give courtesy interview to anyone doing an away rotation with them. That would save you having to come back. However, be prepared for some programs wishing for you to come back during formal interview days.

 

[The kitchen sink]

If they only gave you the PC's email address, then that right there should tell you they don't want people emailing the PD. To write to ask for the PD's email address would be a bad move, imo. Also, this is not an intent to interview letter you're talking about. That would be way too presumptuous. You write to tell them of your interest. A letter of intent is telling them that you intend to interview there and would only come after you've been offered an interview.

I found the PD's email address on the Hospital website, but on FREIDA, underneath PD's information, the PC's email is listed. So although I do have the PD's email address now, is it still presumptous to email the PD? or should I stick with emailing the PC?

 

[The kitchen sink]

There is no such thing as an "intent to interview letter." This is not premed.

The only reason to contact a program before interview is if there were an egregious error in your application or if you were going to be in the area interviewing with another program and wished to know if they would offer you one as well. Please do not contact program directors are coordinators to tell them at this point how much you want to interview there.

As someone noted above this is getting rather stalker-ish. You've never been to the program so you have no idea whether or not you really wish to be there. Please do not send letters telling of your intent to interview; do not send emails until after you have interviewed and you wish to drop a short line thanking them for the opportunity to interview.

Fair enough. This is a program I am considering strongly and I would almost undoubtedly rank this program #1 if I received an interview there. On top of this, I know for a fact, that they have sent offers out to applicants with lower stats than me on board exams. That is all I know at this point.

 

[foodle]

I found the PD's email address on the Hospital website, but on FREIDA, underneath PD's information, the PC's email is listed. So although I do have the PD's email address now, is it still presumptous to email the PD? or should I stick with emailing the PC?

You should show up at the PD's house at 7:32pm with a box of chocolates and a present for each of his/her children (labelled by name and age appropriate).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Fair enough. This is a program I am considering strongly and I would almost undoubtedly rank this program #1 if I received an interview there.

And you know this because?

Unless you've been a student or better yet, a resident there, you don't really know.

Every year people say, "X program is my number 1" until they realize there's something else out there better, which is we roll our eyes at students who claim that programs are, sight unseen, their favorite.

On top of this, I know for a fact, that they have sent offers out to applicants with lower stats than me on board exams. That is all I know at this point.

Which means nothing except that your board score isn't the only aspect of the application they review.

 

[gutonc]

Every year people say, "X program is my number 1" until they realize there's something else out there better, which is we roll our eyes at students who claim that programs are, sight unseen, their favorite.

This.

As an example, prior to interviewing I had 2 programs (one on each coast) as my #1 and 2. After interviewing they were my #8 and 11. My #1 was a place I interviewed on a lark since I was going to be interviewing at the program I thought would be my #1 nearby.

 

[Iamnotme]

I AM IN YOUR HOUSE PETTING YOUR DOG

Geez, this is getting a bit stalker-ish...

Lol too funny!

 

[sunflower1100]

Winged Scapula: Is it a bad idea to contact the advanced programs in the places where I got interviews for prelim or TY? I will fly to another city for a prelim interview very soon and I am just wondering if I should contact that advanced program to show my interest. Absolutely I am ready to move there if I could match there.

Many thanks.

There is no such thing as an "intent to interview letter." This is not premed.

The only reason to contact a program before interview is if there were an egregious error in your application or if you were going to be in the area interviewing with another program and wished to know if they would offer you one as well. Please do not contact program directors are coordinators to tell them at this point how much you want to interview there.

As someone noted above this is getting rather stalker-ish. You've never been to the program so you have no idea whether or not you really wish to be there. Please do not send letters telling of your intent to interview; do not send emails until after you have interviewed and you wish to drop a short line thanking them for the opportunity to interview.