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how much do the big consultant (mckinsey, boston, bain) groups pay a board certified physian. MD not MDMBA
thanks for your help!
thanks for your help!
Consulting jobs? how much $$$
- Thread starter ernie
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ortho-mdmba
Consulting as in I-Banking have pretty standardized base salaries, determined by level. Some people get promoted faster than others; some people get bigger bonuses than others.
Anyone with a graduate degree without specific consulting/banking experience will start at the associate level which is around $110-150K. The bonuses for consulting associates are around 10-30K. Being board-certified or doing a residency will not grant folks a higher position or status in these fields. If the BC-MD turns out to be a superstar, they may have an accelerated promotion schedule but so does any other superstar.
Board-certification helps in industry jobs (health insurance, pharma/biotech, etc) where they specifically prefer it. In these jobs, a BC-MD can make up to $300K. However, you can get pigeon-holed very quickly.
Hope this helps...
Anyone with a graduate degree without specific consulting/banking experience will start at the associate level which is around $110-150K. The bonuses for consulting associates are around 10-30K. Being board-certified or doing a residency will not grant folks a higher position or status in these fields. If the BC-MD turns out to be a superstar, they may have an accelerated promotion schedule but so does any other superstar.
Board-certification helps in industry jobs (health insurance, pharma/biotech, etc) where they specifically prefer it. In these jobs, a BC-MD can make up to $300K. However, you can get pigeon-holed very quickly.
Hope this helps...
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ernie said:what is pigeon holed?
bump
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ortho-mdmba
If you come into a industry job say with a health insurance company without any business experience, it may be difficult to switch into a pharma job without moving backwards in level because that is your only business exp and knowledge and also may require a different skill set. But this is by no mean impossible.
Unlike if you have a broad 2-3 yr consulting experience, you can make those changes much easier because you'll have projects in pretty much all aspects of healthcare and/or other areas of business under your belt.
All this depends on the individual, however. Someone post-residency may not want to screw around with consulting for a couple of years when they can earn much higher in industry.
Unlike if you have a broad 2-3 yr consulting experience, you can make those changes much easier because you'll have projects in pretty much all aspects of healthcare and/or other areas of business under your belt.
All this depends on the individual, however. Someone post-residency may not want to screw around with consulting for a couple of years when they can earn much higher in industry.
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ernie said:
If you go into consulting at one of those international firms, just be sure you really are amenable to extensive travel. I know one person working at one of the consulting firms you referenced who was given a five month assignment in Idaho, and another who needs to fly to the opposite coast and to europe on an almost weekly basis (Neither are MD's, both are MBAs). Might be fun in the short run, but probably gets tiring over time.
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EDIT: Sorry for the thread necromacy... missed the date.
Current consultant here. The travel definitely gets tiring over time. It starts off as really exciting, then becomes dreadful and eventually evolves into something that doesn't really matter. Sure there are the random occasional trips to exciting places (our clients' offices are on a beach in Miami? Score!) but it is mostly getting used to finding the one place to grab a salad for dinner in suburban Des Moines.
Anyway: I know a handful of MDs at my firm (a competitor of McKinsey's). They are invaluable in our process of selling work (we parade them in front of various clients), and are pretty deeply involved in writing articles, research, etc. I don't know what their exit opportunities have been like outside of consulting, but like other consultants with advanced degrees (e.g., JD, PhD), they seem to be gunning for the partner track. Don't think that they're progressing any faster or slower than others at the firm, they just have a different specialty.
Anyway--that's just what I have observed.
Sorry for the thread necromacy... missed the date. Current consultant here. The travel definitely gets tiring over time. It starts off as really exciting, then becomes dreadful and eventually evolves into something that doesn't really matter. Sure there are the random occasional trips to exciting places (our clients' offices are on a beach in Miami? Score!) but it is mostly getting used to finding the one place to grab a salad for dinner in suburban Des Moines.
Anyway: I know a handful of MDs at my firm (a competitor of McKinsey's). They are invaluable in our process of selling work (we parade them in front of various clients), and are pretty deeply involved in writing articles, research, etc. I don't know what their exit opportunities have been like outside of consulting, but like other consultants with advanced degrees (e.g., JD, PhD), they seem to be gunning for the partner track. Don't think that they're progressing any faster or slower than others at the firm, they just have a different specialty.
Anyway--that's just what I have observed.
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So, I have been curious about these consulting things. Are these physicians able to maintain any degree of clinical practice? It seems to me that once you dump you clinical practice for a frequent-flyer consulting gig your shelf life clock as MD starts running and soon the MD component is stale and all you have left is the business side, some initials, and the sales pitch. If you do research within the coorporation, chances are pretty good not going to be widely received as more then industry propaganda.
It seems like some smart firms would try and faicilitate a hybrid MD consultant that can maintain some semblance of clinical practice = clinical significance.
If I may summarize, it doesn't seem to be worth the trouble for a MD to go into consulting.
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I guess that is part of it but misses the otherside too, i.e. doesn't seem like the MD is worth it to the consulting/business firms for very long without increasing the business clout through some sort of MBA and other non-medical expertise.
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Sure, there are MDs who are involved in strategy consulting who also have a clinical practice. But they essentially bill out as "experts" for a couple of hours at a time to help full-time consultants who are working on a project. It is an avocation, not a vocation.
Consulting engagements at the big strategy firms are not a "part time" endeavors.
Consulting engagements at the big strategy firms are not a "part time" endeavors.
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If a Physician joins a large consultancy on a full-time basis, then (s)he will not have time to practice and will have to leave the practice of Medicine (for the time being, at least).
Physicians hired into a consulting firm are not limited to research/sales pitches/'propaganda' (as you say). There's no reason a Physician wouldn't take the same position as an MBA, PhD, JD or anyone else and be on equal footing for promotion (or firing).
The hybrid model doesn't seem that smart to me. The consultancy doesn't need the Physician to be an astute clinician, as the Physicians they hire do not provide medical care once they join the firm. Consulting firms want analytically oriented people who can provide the best advice to their clients. Within that framework, maintaining your practice will not help you as a consultant.
From my experience, it's best to pick something and focus on that. My analogy is that, if you're right foot goes in one direction and left foot in the other, then you will not move forward when you try to walk. If you like practicing, then work as a Physician. If you're frustrated with the practice of Medicine, look for non-practicing opportunities.
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If you check Stryker's website, they reveal the range of fees ($25K increments) that they pay their consulting Physicians. They separate it based on consulting fees, time taken away from practice, royalties and other areas. Some of the fees were pretty high.
This is exactly what some companies try to do.
Particularly if it is a company that markets products and services and hence needs the MD to somehow endorse the safety and efficacy of what they sell. They may have some full time MDs on staff who do the grind work, but the MD who they will want to use as a "public face", they will prefer to be a hybrid person who also still practices, becuase that makes him/her more credible.
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+1 on this statement. For those completely miserable in medicine during school/residency and want out, options are limited unless you have clinical practice for "reasonable" consulting gigs. Or even speaking gigs. People want practicing clinicians. They have experienced sales reps to make the sale or discuss the project and bring in the MD to seal the deal. The balance of "consulting" is great as a 2nd career for someone sick of medicine but with minimal "real world" experience your limitations on what people would want you for are quite real.
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are there specific firms that could utilize the non-clinical services of a psychiatrist for consulting work?
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You guys aren't talking about traditional management consulting, are you? I haven't heard of firms utilizing part-time MDs to "close" deals. That's usually the sole job of the partner bringing in the business. At the most, if it's a health care deal, they might try to sell the client on the fact that there are MDs on their team, but that's about it.
No, I wasn't. I tried to specify this by writing: ..."if it is a company that markets products and services..."..
And there's plenty of those.
