Concerned over Temple's Probation

[jewishdoctor]

Is anybody or should anybody be really concerned about this probation thing??

I know that they are building a new facility, but what improvements have been made for current students????

What is the feeling as when the probation may be lifted?

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[Lara]

I only replied in the official Temple thread a minute ago! Here's what I said...

About the probation - I'm not worried because I can attest that the facilities haven't interfered with my education, so there's no way Temple should lose accreditation. My guess is that it should be lifted once there's sufficient proof that construction on the new school will take place...hopefully sometime this fall, but we'll see.

To be honest I'm not expecting too much in the way of current improvements, but if there's only a limited amount of funds it wouldn't make sense to spend a lot on a building that will eventually be obsolete. I only have a year of lectures left so it's not a big deal anyway, and the class sizes should be kept down in the future so seating won't be an issue.

Other fellow students are free to post if they know of more details. I've heard of wireless internet being introduced sometime but can't think of anything else...

 

[XENON-RAMZ]

a school on probation is a bad sign, atleast for the student if the reasons r financial aid, and for applying to residency if the quality of education is not at the same level because of bad facilities. unfortunately, temple is suffering from both to some degree. look up the article on google.com .

 

[dumbest premed]

Probation isn't good. I didn't apply to Temple over it.

 

[idq1i]

Originally posted by dumbest premed
Probation isn't good. I didn't apply to Temple over it.

Same here. I applied, but withdrew pre-secondary. Temple actually sent out a letter explaining their situation, but it didn't sway me.

There are plenty of schools out there to apply to that aren't on probation. That's my 2 cents

 

[DD214_DOC]

Temple University School of Medicine faces another year on probation after losing an appeal with the Liaison Committee for Medical Education. The LCME put the school on probation in June 2002 for not offering enough student financial aid and for failing to update aging buildings.



THAT's why they're on probation? This doesn't seem to have any bearing on the quality of physicians graduating from Temple.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by JKDMed
The LCME put the school on probation in June 2002 for not offering enough student financial aid and for failing to update aging buildings.



THAT's why they're on probation? This doesn't seem to have any bearing on the quality of physicians graduating from Temple.

I agree, temple well still trian you to be a good physician, you'll just owe more and be in old buildings, but a competent physician still. I was close to going there myself, and would of been proud to have gone, if it weren't for getting in to my state school.

 

[XENON-RAMZ]

yea, im pretty sure u can be a dedicated physician coming from the carribbean, but is your MD accredited?...no.


why take the chance with temple. after working my ass off to do a bachelors to get into an accredited north american med school, i want a real north american MD. otherwise i couldve done my MB,BS(MD equivilant) in england right after high school (and i just turned 17then!)

 

[Lara]

Temple *does* give a "real North American" MD and there's simply no good enough reason for that to change. It would be total BS for Temple to lose accreditation when there are plenty of other medical schools with comparable tuition. Creighton in Omaha warned us at interview to be aware of the expense and not expect much in the way of financial aid. Drexel is more expensive for Penn residents, and I'm sure BU, Tufts, NYMC and Finch are pretty similar. As for the facilities, they're not great but I honestly can't fathom them being bad enough to warrant such a measure. I went to undergrad at McGill, a top three university in Canada, and the facilities there really weren't any better.

Point is, I haven't suffered. I did anatomy lab like any other med student in a manageable group of five. I've hardly ever had to wait for a library computer, nor have I ever needed to look up anything and found it unavailable. The only time I didn't sit down in lecture was once when I arrived late and didn't want to disturb anyone (seats were available, but in the middle of the row). Sure it'd be nice to have fancy classrooms in a nicer neighborhood...but it's not essential.

Of course Temple's not perfect, and if you have a chance to attend a substantially less expensive school I'd probably advise you to do so. But as far as I'm concerned, my education has been just as good as any school ranked below the top 10-20. Anatomy, physiology and biochem were particularly good, and those are the most important year one subjects. And it's the clinical experience that Temple is especially known for, so I'm hoping things will only get better.

 

[jewishdoctor]

Any last words on this before classes start?

 

[JM.]

Not worried about it.

 

[jay c]

i graduated temple in 1999, got 99.9 % on step I and II, and did internal medicine residency at brigham and women's hospital (harvard med school). found my education to be every bit as good as anyone else's, and found my clinical exposure to procedures (i.e. IV's, chest tubes, central lines, etc) to be far superior to many

 

[phllystyl]

Originally posted by jewishdoctor
Any last words on this before classes start?

I am not concerned in the least about this. Not related to the quality of my education in the least, and it will be resolved shortly.

temple is accredited. Mr XENON needs to read a bit more.

 

[ironey]

I turned down an interview at Temple for several reasons related to the probationary status. However, I had the leisure to do so because I already had an acceptance at one of my top choice schools when the invitation was received. If I had not had that acceptance, I would have gone ahead. Some things I thought about:

1) Accredidation status is not something I even remotely want to worry about as a medical student.

2) One of the committee's complaints was about the high debt ratio of its graduates - NOT the high tuition. Other schools out there have higher tuitions, but the higher tuition is balanced by more generous grant and schoarship funds in the financial aid packages. Like anyone else, I'd prefer to come out of school with the least amount of debt as possible.

3) The undergrad instituton program that I was invloved with came very close to a probation due to facilities. Call me superficial, but I didn't want to pay out the rear for an education again while being exposed to lead paint and asbestos in old buildings (perhaps that's a little bit exaggerated, but you get my point . . . . ).

As I didn't even go to the interview, I can't say anything good or bad about the program. However, I will say that I wouldn't have paid the $$ to apply there had I known about the probation beforehand.

 

[jewishdoctor]

Thanks for all the input.

Let's hope the probation ends very soon....

 

[jewishdoctor]

Thanks for all the input.

Let's hope that the probation is lifted very soon.

 

[jewishdoctor]

Any new information on the probation???

 

[Mistress S]

I was thinking about applying to Temple next year, for the entering class of 2005. Should this be cleared up by then? Will the new facilities be available by the time I would start?

 

[JM.]

Originally posted by jewishdoctor
Any new information on the probation???

Are you an applicant this fall or are you starting there this fall?

 

[MEDADMSUCKS]

I've been told that the new hospital will be ready in four years. That would mean if you apply now you migth get your fourth year roatations in the new hospital.

 

[jewishdoctor]

Does anybody have any new news on the probation issue????

 

[jewishdoctor]

Anything happrning???

Any news??

 

[RedHeadKiddo]

Originally posted by jewishdoctor
Any new information on the probation???

I heard that they are decreasing their class size this year to help with the probation status. On their website they say approx 180-200 students matriculate per year. I went to dinner with a few students recently and they said that they have heard they are decreasing the matriculation number to anywhere from 80 to 120? Who knows. I think the big issue with the probation is not having enough school space for the number of students, therefore, decreasing the numbers will help.


I am somewhat worried about the status, however, I know that it does not affect the quality of the education. Students at Temple are some of the happiest I know in Philadelphia, and the LOVE their school.

 

[skypilot]

At the interview they said class size would be decreased to 180. The probation didn't seem to hurt their match list which seems very good.

Plus the probation was for the library which has been fixed, class size (fixed) and student debt load upon graduation which cannot be fixed without more students with military scholarships or rich parents

As a side note I noticed that they put one of the residency programs at Hopkins on probation for working the residents beyond the mandatory 80 hours a week. That doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from applying there

The new facilities will be available after next years incoming class graduates.

 

[JM.]

Originally posted by jewishdoctor
Anything happrning???

Any news??

Man- are you an applicant or something? What's your stake in it? Just curious about your posting history.

At any rate - the LCME was here at the beginning of November to review the school.

I love my school - I think it's great, and I am happy there.

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by jmwalker
I love my school - I think it's great, and I am happy there.

So in your opinion, what are the pluses and minuses of Temple?

 

[jewishdoctor]

When will the LCME visit results be made public?????

 

[Sean2tall]

After interviewing there I got the impression that the probation didn't bother anybody at all (the students, faculty etc.) - except for perhaps stopping some people from applying. I've heard it said a million times, but the clinical experiences seem terrific. Anyways, now I just need to hear back from them! They said three weeks, darn it! I want to know!

Sean

 

[JM.]

Originally posted by Slickness
So in your opinion, what are the pluses and minuses of Temple?

I posted a great long thing about this earlier in the year on another thread - I think a Temple search might turn it up. The clinical experiences are awesome and the hospital staff is all about teaching. I go to the ER and volunteer (I speak spanish), and when I am over there, all of the residents, attendings, students and support staff are willing to teach and answer questions.

There are numerous organizations that you can join for extracurricular stuff, and there are tons of volunteer opps. I just liek the atmosphere I guess, I can talk to just about every one of my classmates and they are all neat and interesting people.

 

[jewishdoctor]

I guess it takes time for the results of the visit to be made public????

 

[zzeyfzz]

the lcme people came on november 17th and 18th. i believe that by february a decision should be made and temple will be informed if they're off probation or not. i'd think that by february that decision should also be made public. the class size was decreased this year and there are all these moves to build new buildings and such, so hopefully it'll be good news.

 

[nutmegs]

here's the link someone mentioned earlier, in case you haven't seen it. I honestly don't think the probation is anything to worry about, if that stuff genuinely concerns you that's one thing, but just writing the school off when you haven't seen it/learned about if for yourself is a shame.



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86628&highlight=temple