Competitive Salaries? What factors determine?

[cool_vkb]

Ok, i know this topic has been discussed like billion times here. but no one ever gives a perfect answer.

How much does a Podiatrist earns?

Whenever someone asks this question, the answer is "It depends on many factor", what exactly are those factors? Can someone explain briefly. please it will be a great favor. all people say are salaries are competive. What do u mean by competive. BLS says 94000, AACPM says 110000, Scholl says 134000 , Allied Health website says 168000. i mean common there gotta be a national average. Especially now a days. i mean what are your seniors, or those have already graduated getting offers. iam sure studenst who are in residencies and 3rd and 4th year must be speaking to their seniors abt this.


Some factors which i think:

-Not many qualifications in hand (for ex, a guy with PM36 is always gonna make more money that PM24 or PM12)
-Opening a practice in already saturated market.
-Practicing in a state where there are heavy insurances.
-Practing in a state where we have very limited scope (like NY).
-last but not the least, Bad customer service and behavior.

Are these the only factors, or there are others also. Plzzz say. And last question, what is the scope of Podiatry in Farming Communities/Rural healthcare. Do u think we do better in cities where there are podiatrists on every other street (in chicago atleast) or in rural area.

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[bkpa2med]

I think how much of a business sense you have plays a big role in how much you earn. The obvious is the better you are more people will come to you, but marketing I believe is important. Also, don't stick to averages because that's exactly what they are, averages.

I know an experienced pod (20yrs + experience) who works his ass off and makes $200k. This may be out of the norm or not, who knows.

 

[teefRcool]

When refering to pod are you guys talking about regular 4 year pod. Or one that has a 2 or 3 year specialty?

 

[cool_vkb]

When refering to pod are you guys talking about regular 4 year pod. Or one that has a 2 or 3 year specialty?

ofcourse my friend, iam talking abt 2 or 3yrs speciality.

 

[dpmgrad]

Ok, i know this topic has been discussed like billion times here. but no one ever gives a perfect answer.

How much does a Podiatrist earns?

Whenever someone asks this question, the answer is "It depends on many factor", what exactly are those factors? Can someone explain briefly. please it will be a great favor. all people say are salaries are competive. What do u mean by competive. BLS says 94000, AACPM says 110000, Scholl says 134000 , Allied Health website says 168000. i mean common there gotta be a national average. Especially now a days. i mean what are your seniors, or those have already graduated getting offers. iam sure studenst who are in residencies and 3rd and 4th year must be speaking to their seniors abt this.


Some factors which i think:

-Not many qualifications in hand (for ex, a guy with PM36 is always gonna make more money that PM24 or PM12)
-Opening a practice in already saturated market.
-Practicing in a state where there are heavy insurances.
-Practing in a state where we have very limited scope (like NY).
-last but not the least, Bad customer service and behavior.

Are these the only factors, or there are others also. Plzzz say. And last question, what is the scope of Podiatry in Farming Communities/Rural healthcare. Do u think we do better in cities where there are no virtually podiatrists on every other street (in chicago atleast) or in rural area .

I just answered this question yesterday in the Podiatrists in Hospital thread.
Here is part of my response to your question:

I know that the issues about starting salaries have been discussed on previous forum threads. You might want to do a quick search to locate these threads.

In general, some of the factors that influence starting salaries include the medical malpractice situation in the area, insurance reimbursement rates in the area, types of insurance in the area (such as HMO vs PPO), salary structure (base salary, base salary with bonus incentive, percentage of receivables, etc...), benefits package (base salary may be higher if you had to purchase your own health and malpractice insurance), number of Podiatrists / Foot Ankle Orthopod in the local area, group practice vs solo practictioner (including ortho group vs non ortho groups), what salary that the group practice can afford to pay you based on the patient volume, etc... For example, in the major metropolitan areas in the Northeast, the chances of a new Podiatry grad starting above 100,000 is much smaller than a Podiatry grad joining a practice in the Midwest.

As for the factors that affect salaries in your posting, I think two of them are flawed. It is not necessarily true that a PM&S-36 grad will make more money than a PM&S-24 / PSR-12. Remember, medicine has a business side to it. If you are a good business man, you will do well financially. For example, I have a Podiatrist in my group that does not do surgery. Believe it or not, he makes more money than the rearfoot surgeon in my group. For the time and reimbursement that one gets for a major reconstructive rearfoot surgery, the non surgical Podiatrist can possibly make more money doing routine foot care and casting for orthotics, etc.... In the northeast, routine foot care and orthotics are not usually covered by insurance and patients would pay cash for those services. As for lower salaries for Podiatrists practicing in states with limited scope of practice (such as NY), this is also flawed. I know of two Podiatrist in Long Island, NY that are making well over 400,000 a year. Again, it depends on how good of a business man you are.

There are some surveys that are being conducted on the average starting salaries out there. You can find out where you can get this info by searching through the previous threads in this forum. As for me, I completed my residency training in June 2006 and had several offers. I also know first hand many of the offers that my classmates and other graduating residents got across the US. The starting salaries do vary quite a bit based on the factors that I had listed above. For me, I am kinda lucky with my salary negotiations with my Podiatry group in the Northeast. I was able to get a pretty competitive salary package due to hospital sponsored income guarantee program. Remember, salaries are not everything. I have a classmate who joined an Orthopedic group in Indiana and is making well above 100,000 and he and his family is absolutely miserable out there since they missed the Northeast US environment and family/friends support back in the Northeast. On the other hand, I have a classmate in New Jersey who has a starting base salary of 60,000 with incentive bonus and he and his family are very happy and do just fine. So, don't get hung up with the starting salaries. There will be times where you will accept a lower starting salary position in a location and a practice situation that would make you and your family happier.

 

[Rop]

Accept $60K and be happy after completing 4 years of podiatric medical school + 3 year surgical residency + 200K in loans just to be in a desirable location? Wow I see why no one wants to enter this profession. It almost seems like a dumb choice looking in from the outside. I'm just glad (or hopeful?) that things have since changed and recent residency grads have started @ >100K

I just answered this question yesterday in the Podiatrists in Hospital thread.
Here is part of my response to your question:

I know that the issues about starting salaries have been discussed on previous forum threads. You might want to do a quick search to locate these threads.

In general, some of the factors that influence starting salaries include the medical malpractice situation in the area, insurance reimbursement rates in the area, types of insurance in the area (such as HMO vs PPO), salary structure (base salary, base salary with bonus incentive, percentage of receivables, etc...), benefits package (base salary may be higher if you had to purchase your own health and malpractice insurance), number of Podiatrists / Foot Ankle Orthopod in the local area, group practice vs solo practictioner (including ortho group vs non ortho groups), what salary that the group practice can afford to pay you based on the patient volume, etc... For example, in the major metropolitan areas in the Northeast, the chances of a new Podiatry grad starting above 100,000 is much smaller than a Podiatry grad joining a practice in the Midwest.

As for the factors that affect salaries in your posting, I think two of them are flawed. It is not necessarily true that a PM&S-36 grad will make more money than a PM&S-24 / PSR-12. Remember, medicine has a business side to it. If you are a good business man, you will do well financially. For example, I have a Podiatrist in my group that does not do surgery. Believe it or not, he makes more money than the rearfoot surgeon in my group. For the time and reimbursement that one gets for a major reconstructive rearfoot surgery, the non surgical Podiatrist can possibly make more money doing routine foot care and casting for orthotics, etc.... In the northeast, routine foot care and orthotics are not usually covered by insurance and patients would pay cash for those services. As for lower salaries for Podiatrists practicing in states with limited scope of practice (such as NY), this is also flawed. I know of two Podiatrist in Long Island, NY that are making well over 400,000 a year. Again, it depends on how good of a business man you are.

There are some surveys that are being conducted on the average starting salaries out there. You can find out where you can get this info by searching through the previous threads in this forum. As for me, I completed my residency training in June 2006 and had several offers. I also know first hand many of the offers that my classmates and other graduating residents got across the US. The starting salaries do vary quite a bit based on the factors that I had listed above. For me, I am kinda lucky with my salary negotiations with my Podiatry group in the Northeast. I was able to get a pretty competitive salary package due to hospital sponsored income guarantee program. Remember, salaries are not everything. I have a classmate who joined an Orthopedic group in Indiana and is making well above 100,000 and he and his family is absolutely miserable out there since they missed the Northeast US environment and family/friends support back in the Northeast. On the other hand, I have a classmate in New Jersey who has a starting base salary of 60,000 with incentive bonus and he and his family are very happy and do just fine. So, don't get hung up with the starting salaries. There will be times where you will accept a lower starting salary position in a location and a practice situation that would make you and your family happier.

 

[heybrother]

9 years ago called. They want their thread back.

 

[dpmgrad]

Accept $60K and be happy after completing 4 years of podiatric medical school + 3 year surgical residency + 200K in loans just to be in a desirable location? Wow I see why no one wants to enter this profession. It almost seems like a dumb choice looking in from the outside. I'm just glad (or hopeful?) that things have since changed and recent residency grads have started @ >100K

As heybrother said, this was 9 years ago. First, 9 - 15 years ago, not many Podiatry students had student loans debt of 200K +. This is something more common today since tuition and associated fees are much more expensive now. There are students that are over 150K in debt from their undergrad education alone. There are undergrad school's tuition plus fees pushing near the 60K a year now.

Second, I am sure that the current resident graduates are probably starting much higher than 60K these days since I wrote that post over 9 years ago. However, I think that you are missing the point that I was making. If you have a family, you really want to take them in to consideration when you are looking for a job. You want a location that you and your family would be happy. I have three of my friends, whom have left their positions at the Kaisers (which pays very well) because they were unhappy with the location (no family support) or unhappy with the amount of hours they have to work to meet productivity measures and not having enough time to spend with his/her family. If you are single or your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend/significant other does not have any ties to any location, then perhaps, choosing a location that will pay you well would be an option.

Lastly, there is a new factor that the new resident graduates will now have to consider when looking for a new job. Since American Board of Foot and Surgery (ABFAS) has changed the requirements, effective with residents graduating in 2014, these new residents now have only 7 years from the day that they graduate from residency to get all of the necessary cases (both forefoot and rearfoot/ankle) to sit for and pass the ABFAS board exams. If these new graduates do not get all the necessary cases for either foot surgery or RRA boards or not able to pass the exams within those 7 years, they will never be eligible to become ABFAS board certified. Remember, none of the cases from residency count towards the required cases. Effective with 2015 examination year, fellowship cases are accepted towards the surgical case requirements, provided that they meet the listed criterias in the ABFAS 220 document. So, if you plan on getting ABFAS board certified, you will need to look for a practice that will enable you to get all of the necessary forefoot cases for foot surgery boards and rearfoot / ankle cases for the RRA surgery boards within 7 years.

 

[Gigantron]

If these new graduates do not get all the necessary cases for either foot surgery or RRA boards or not able to pass the exams within those 7 years, they will never be eligible to become ABFAS board certified. Remember, none of the cases from residency and FELLOWSHIP count towards the required cases. So, if you plan on getting ABFAS board certified, you will need to look for a practice that will enable you to get all of the necessary forefoot cases for foot surgery boards and rearfoot / ankle cases for the RRA surgery boards within 7 years.

Quick question...does the seven year time limit start the moment you graduate residency or, if you choose to pursue one, fellowship? If it starts after residency, does that effectively mean those who choose to pursue a fellowship would only have six years to complete the necessary requirements for ABFAS certification in both foot and RRA surgery?

 

[Pronation]

I could be wrong, but I believe that starting this year, fellowship cases do count.

 

[dpmgrad]

I could be wrong, but I believe that starting this year, fellowship cases do count.

Both Pronation and Ankle Breaker are correct. Effective 2015 examination date, fellowship cases do count, provided they meet the criterias listed on the ABFAS 220 document. It was my mistake and have corrected my previous post to reflect this. I would recommend someone completing their fellowship is to collect all of the necessary documentation for case submission before they leave their fellowship. It will save them time later from going back to the fellowship location to get all of the necessary documetation for a case that got selected for the ABFAS credentialling process.

 

[dpmgrad]

Quick question...does the seven year time limit start the moment you graduate residency or, if you choose to pursue one, fellowship? If it starts after residency, does that effectively mean those who choose to pursue a fellowship would only have six years to complete the necessary requirements for ABFAS certification in both foot and RRA surgery?

You are correct that if you choose to do a fellowship, you will have one less year to complete the requirements toward ABFAS board certification. However, as both Pronation and Ankle Breaker pointed out, they are now officially counting the surgical cases in fellowship towards the required cases, if they meet the listed criterias in ABFAS 220 document.