Compensation in High Tech

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Im more on the finance side right now. Not interested in saving the world.
oh, and also finance ;)
we have courses like financial modeling and machine learning for trading:p

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
PAs make less but it's a somewhat stable job? All the clinics/urgent cares around me are phasing out their MDs for RNs and PAs due to the lower cost and being able to the minimum that has to be do with the usual patients. Eventually, the PA market will saturate too because they can only open so many urgent cares everywhere before it turns to the next pharmacy. I'm already starting to see some urgent cares close down in NY because there are just too many ofem. As for hospitals, they are on the same boat as we are because the old doctors simply refuse to retire
I bet a lot of RNs will see this and switch to PA. I guess in just a few years, PA will become the next pharmacy. They are competing directly with MD for jobs, and how many clinics are there and how many MD can they replace after all? In the long term, it won't be a stable job.
 
I bet a lot of RNs will see this and switch to PA. I guess in just a few years, PA will become the next pharmacy. They are competing directly with MD for jobs, and how many clinics are there and how many MD can they replace after all? In the long term, it won't be a stable job.
37% growth
 
I would say less than 1% of pharmacists are capable of becoming software engineers. If they had the skills, they would have done CS from the beginning and started a good life at age 22 with minimal debt. You actually need skills to code, you can't just show up to school and earn your degree by memorizing stuff.

Whereas 99% of software engineers are capable of becoming pharmacists. Anyone can memorize a bunch of drugs and look stuff up on Lexicomp. Half of the prescriptions at CVS don't even require the pharmacist to look at interactions these days, they go straight to product verification.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I would say less than 1% of pharmacists are capable of becoming software engineers. If they had the skills, they would have done CS from the beginning and started a good life at age 22 with minimal debt. You actually need skills to code, you can't just show up to school and earn your degree by memorizing stuff.

Whereas 99% of software engineers are capable of becoming pharmacists. Anyone can memorize a bunch of drugs and look stuff up on Lexicomp. Half of the prescriptions at CVS don't even require the pharmacist to look at interactions these days, they go straight to product verification.
I say 2 % for software engineering 1% for data science, 0.5 for statistics
 
I would say less than 1% of pharmacists are capable of becoming software engineers. If they had the skills, they would have done CS from the beginning and started a good life at age 22 with minimal debt. You actually need skills to code, you can't just show up to school and earn your degree by memorizing stuff.

Whereas 99% of software engineers are capable of becoming pharmacists. Anyone can memorize a bunch of drugs and look stuff up on Lexicomp. Half of the prescriptions at CVS don't even require the pharmacist to look at interactions these days, they go straight to product verification.
<= 1% out of 15k grads per year would still mean 150 happy souls after all. This is basically equivalent to shutting down one school ;)
This is still better than praying ACPE to intervene to close diploma mills :D
 
Yup you can legitimately get a 0 on a CS exam if you don't know what you're doing. In pharmacy school, you're guaranteed a 20-25% on the multiple choice exams just for showing up.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yup you can legitimately get a 0 on a CS exam if you don't know what you're doing. In pharmacy school, you're guaranteed a 20-25% on the multiple choice exams just for showing up.
yup, i guessed my way out of oncology final just cramming 6 hours before the exam, and somehow i got a high 70 :shrug:
one of my friend who studied a week for that got a 60s o_O
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Pa is closer to pharmacist than tech.
37 is also high. I think pharmacy was 6
but PA has little applicability or earning potential compared to tech. time-wise it's roughly the same, and tuition is comparable and tech can be a lot lower.
the only difference is the learning curving. tech can have very steep learning curves. PA is just another pharmacy, memorize & regurgitate, done~
 
but PA has little applicability or earning potential compared to tech. time-wise it's roughly the same, and tuition is comparable and tech can be a lot lower.
the only difference is the learning curving. tech can have very steep learning curves. PA is just another pharmacy, memorize & regurgitate, done~
more stable, people always need a provider. States still need doctors, one industry for life. Tech is saturated as well. Yeah which is why I said PA will be easier for pharmacists
 
What non-traditional pharmacy/healthcare careers are you referring to?
You mean residencies? check out reddit and the residency/job market sub-forum and see what that can lead to~
Or you mean PA or maybe even MD? so you are encouraging people to take out even more debt and a decade of life (in the case of MD) for the same saturating professions?

Plz clarify and I am actually looking forward to seeing your suggestions!

link me to the subforum lol. I think PA is a good deal. Anyways I said in this lifetime there will be more than one industry. I think serious is saying be careful

I wouldn't consider residencies non-traditional any longer, but that is one pathway. Standard PGY-1 + PGY-2 in pharmacy/health informatics where you will be trained and work with big data through SQL, excel (VBA/macros), tableau, Python, etc. Generally, these positions offer upward mobility all the way up to COO/CTO depending on the company, and your ambitions. Health systems are making moves to hire in-house informatics teams to handle their clinical informatics and business analytics operations. You have start-up pharmacy companies left and right (especially in the Austin area), where they rely on performance improvement backed by data and analytics. You have large pharmacy data analytics companies such as Vizient & Premier where having a strong pharmacy background coupled with a technical background is valuable; also, with room for upward mobility in the company. I could literally talk for hours about this stuff (it's where I am headed).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I wouldn't consider residencies non-traditional any longer, but that is one pathway. Standard PGY-1 + PGY-2 in pharmacy/health informatics where you will be trained and work with big data through SQL, excel (VBA/macros), tableau, Python, etc. Generally, these positions offer upward mobility all the way up to COO/CTO depending on the company, and your ambitions. Health systems are making moves to hire in-house informatics teams to handle their clinical informatics and business analytics operations. You have start-up pharmacy companies left and right (especially in the Austin area), where they rely on performance improvement backed by data and analytics. You have large pharmacy data analytics companies such as Vizient & Premier where having a strong pharmacy background coupled with a technical background is valuable; also, with room for upward mobility in the company. I could literally talk for hours about this stuff (it's where I am headed).
not sure why you tagged me, but good luck!
FYI you will be working with EPIC not python
Tableau doesnt require code I hear
 
Taking the employment outcomes of arguably one of the top schools (MIT) and feeders into high tech from 2017:

Average Salary (Base/Bonus) out of Undergrad (BS) or Masters (MS): $88,000/year
Computer Science Major Specific Salary (Base/Bonus)
Mean: $110; Median: $107; Range: $74 - $200

Total hires from undergrad in FAANG: 36 Total
Google (15); Facebook (9); Amazon (7); Apple (5); Netflix (Not Reported)

Total hires from masters in FAANG: 23 Total
Amazon (10); Facebook (5); Apple (4); Google (4); Netflix (Not Reported)

Sample size of the survey? 1,300

Just goes to show you how rare FAANG salaries are and that you have to be the cream of the crop
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I wouldn't consider residencies non-traditional any longer, but that is one pathway. Standard PGY-1 + PGY-2 in pharmacy/health informatics where you will be trained and work with big data through SQL, excel (VBA/macros), tableau, Python, etc. Generally, these positions offer upward mobility all the way up to COO/CTO depending on the company, and your ambitions. Health systems are making moves to hire in-house informatics teams to handle their clinical informatics and business analytics operations. You have start-up pharmacy companies left and right (especially in the Austin area), where they rely on performance improvement backed by data and analytics. You have large pharmacy data analytics companies such as Vizient & Premier where having a strong pharmacy background coupled with a technical background is valuable; also, with room for upward mobility in the company. I could literally talk for hours about this stuff (it's where I am headed).
So you basically just confirmed all my points :)
tech is HOT after all ;)
either pure IT or back to healthcare analytics, tech is a far better option
 
So you basically just confirmed all my points :)
tech is HOT after all ;)
either pure IT or back to healthcare analytics, tech is a far better option
yeah I think he and I tryin to say pharmacy tech and tech are different. There is more chance to project manager(promotion) with the residency of informatic pharmacy. You dont need six sigma black belt
 
Taking the employment outcomes of arguably one of the top schools (MIT) and feeders into high tech from 2017:

Average Salary (Base/Bonus) out of Undergrad (BS) or Masters (MS): $88,000/year
Computer Science Major Specific Salary (Base/Bonus)
Mean: $110; Median: $107; Range: $74 - $200

Total hires from undergrad in FAANG: 36 Total
Google (15); Facebook (9); Amazon (7); Apple (5); Netflix (Not Reported)

Total hires from masters in FAANG: 23 Total
Amazon (10); Facebook (5); Apple (4); Google (4); Netflix (Not Reported)

Sample size of the survey? 1,300

Just goes to show you how rare FAANG salaries are and that you have to be the cream of the crop
These are just base salaries, just to mind you~ where are the signing bonus and stock options number?
A typical google SWE total compensation package can include up to 50% compensation as stocks. So where are they?
You can't cherry-pick your data, show the whole thing! :rolleyes:
 
Taking the employment outcomes of arguably one of the top schools (MIT) and feeders into high tech from 2017:

Average Salary (Base/Bonus) out of Undergrad (BS) or Masters (MS): $88,000/year
Computer Science Major Specific Salary (Base/Bonus)
Mean: $110; Median: $107; Range: $74 - $200

Total hires from undergrad in FAANG: 36 Total
Google (15); Facebook (9); Amazon (7); Apple (5); Netflix (Not Reported)

Total hires from masters in FAANG: 23 Total
Amazon (10); Facebook (5); Apple (4); Google (4); Netflix (Not Reported)

Sample size of the survey? 1,300

Just goes to show you how rare FAANG salaries are and that you have to be the cream of the crop
How Investment Banks Recruit
Investments Banks, unfortunately, recruit based primarily on relationships:
  1. Did you go to school where we recruit? (40%)
  2. Do I know you personally? (25%)
  3. Have you done investment banking before? (20%)
  4. Can you meet with me 3 times and not be weird? (15%)

I say he has a high chance. his school recruits from there, and he has some connections like the guy on youtube
 
Bonus is included and stock compensation depends on vesting period - whether that's 20-25%/year or cliff vesting, you don't get the stocks once they're granted. Undergrads/Masters usually come in at L3/E3 equivalent which equates to about $175k total comp for transparency, of which $30-$50 comes in the form of stock which could be worth a lot or nothing depending on the performance of the company and how the long-term incentives are structured (options; RSU's; etc.)

The point is that taking the top 5-10% of High Tech and comparing it to the average of pharmacy (retail) is disingenuous and also very much cherry picking your data.

Edit: If I took the top 5-10% of pharmacy from my class 5 years from graduating, total comp would probably be around $200 - $300 as well
 
the whole data picture is doesnt include the outliers in pharmacy or the bottom. Median doesnt change but mean does even if you put higher salaries. Median is what you go by.
 
Bonus is included and stock compensation depends on vesting period - whether that's 20-25%/year or cliff vesting, you don't get the stocks once they're granted. Undergrads/Masters usually come in at L3/E3 equivalent which equates to about $175k total comp for transparency, of which $30-$50 comes in the form of stock which could be worth a lot or nothing depending on the performance of the company and how the long-term incentives are structured (options; RSU's; etc.)

The point is that taking the top 5-10% of High Tech and comparing it to the average of pharmacy (retail) is disingenuous and also very much cherry picking your data.

Edit: If I took the top 5-10% of pharmacy from my class 5 years from graduating, total comp would probably be around $200 - $300 as well
If you use tableau you can probably plot the graph
 
Taking the employment outcomes of arguably one of the top schools (MIT) and feeders into high tech from 2017:

Average Salary (Base/Bonus) out of Undergrad (BS) or Masters (MS): $88,000/year
Computer Science Major Specific Salary (Base/Bonus)
Mean: $110; Median: $107; Range: $74 - $200

Total hires from undergrad in FAANG: 36 Total
Google (15); Facebook (9); Amazon (7); Apple (5); Netflix (Not Reported)

Total hires from masters in FAANG: 23 Total
Amazon (10); Facebook (5); Apple (4); Google (4); Netflix (Not Reported)

Sample size of the survey? 1,300

Just goes to show you how rare FAANG salaries are and that you have to be the cream of the crop
Come on, no one is college freshman here~
4 years of college + 4 years of pharmacy have taken out most of the feeble-minded. Whoever left and still want to go into it can't be doing better than vast majority of cs undergrads? give me a break :rolleyes:
 
Bonus is included and stock compensation depends on vesting period - whether that's 20-25%/year or cliff vesting, you don't get the stocks once they're granted. Undergrads/Masters usually come in at L3/E3 equivalent which equates to about $175k total comp for transparency, of which $30-$50 comes in the form of stock which could be worth a lot or nothing depending on the performance of the company and how the long-term incentives are structured (options; RSU's; etc.)

The point is that taking the top 5-10% of High Tech and comparing it to the average of pharmacy (retail) is disingenuous and also very much cherry picking your data.

Edit: If I took the top 5-10% of pharmacy from my class 5 years from graduating, total comp would probably be around $200 - $300 as well
Did I ask everyone in pharmacy to go into high tech? Hell no, just read my OP~
Each year there are 15k pharmacy grads. I am just proposing an alternative career path for the upper echelon who is sick of retail and wants no part of residency BS. So what's your issue? I don't get it :shrug:
 
We can agree to disagree, I think that pharmacy is still a viable career path with a few caveats:
  • Don't be in it solely for the money and be good at what you do
  • You need to be smart about your education and the costs associated, both financial and time (6 vs 8 year program; in-state vs OOS/private tuition; etc)
  • Be open to alternative paths, of which there are many for pharmacy - 20% of the US economy is healthcare related and healthcare is undergoing massive changes providing opportunities for those that are able to position themselves for success. There are a lot of options beyond retail where you can leverage your degree, enjoy your job, and make a great living
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
We can agree to disagree, I think that pharmacy is still a viable career path with a few caveats:
  • Don't be in it solely for the money and be good at what you do
  • You need to be smart about your education and the costs associated, both financial and time (6 vs 8 year program; in-state vs OOS/private tuition; etc)
  • Be open to alternative paths, of which there are many for pharmacy - 20% of the US economy is healthcare related and healthcare is undergoing massive changes providing opportunities for those that are able to position themselves for success. There are a lot of options beyond retail where you can leverage your degree, enjoy your job, and make a great living
Of course!
Google is actively developing healthcare API, yet there is currently no formal training programs for those jobs, no residency, no fellowship. For those who are capable and want to do the deep diving, Why don't give pharm kids a chance?
 
Did I ask everyone in pharmacy to go into high tech? Hell no, just read my OP~
Each year there are 15k pharmacy grads. I am just proposing an alternative career path for the upper echelon who is sick of retail and wants no part of residency BS. So what's your issue? I don't get it :shrug:
why do you waste your time? Honestly some are in medical writing, some on mba for business. I keep telling you some combinations work and some dont. If they find what they are good for, their passion, they will find it. Their mind is already made up that their 2nd degree is important, just likes yours is on tech. and mines is on finance. You are literally having a conversation with someone who has a MBA, someone who is doing pharmacy residency in tech. Me going into finance with some skills in data science. Just like that PAtopharm guy one person told you about. I keep saying we are the sum of our experience. The last guy was in some sp500 firm.


  • A medical writer
  • An investment tutor
  • Consulting pharmacists
  • Pharmacy entrepreneurs
  • Health coaches
  • Veterinary pharmacists
  • And a few experts in career transitions

sky is the limit man
You are pushing what you believe to be true onto others. First you need to know your strength and weakness. Those people in hollywood are outliers as well. THey keep at it and dont give up their dreams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Of course!
Google is actively developing healthcare API, yet there is currently no formal training programs for those jobs, no residency, no fellowship. For those who are capable and want to do the deep diving, Why don't give pharm kids a chance?
thats because of supply and demand...
 
why do you waste your time? Honestly some are in medical writing, some on mba for business. I keep telling you some combinations work and some dont. If they find what they are good for, their passion, they will find it. Their mind is already made up that their 2nd degree is important, just likes yours is on tech. and mines is on finance. You are literally having a conversation with someone who has a MBA, someone who is doing pharmacy residency in tech. Me going into finance with some skills in data science. Just like that PAtopharm guy one person told you about. I keep saying we are the sum of our experience. The last guy was in some sp500 firm.


  • A medical writer
  • An investment tutor
  • Consulting pharmacists
  • Pharmacy entrepreneurs
  • Health coaches
  • Veterinary pharmacists
  • And a few experts in career transitions

sky is the limit man
You are pushing what you believe to be true onto others. First you need to know your strength and weakness. Those people in hollywood are outliers as well. THey keep at it and dont give up their dreams.
I am not pushing what i believe to them at all. in fact, that's why i decided to write the warning on top.
and I mentioned the case could be an outlier, but maybe it isn't too far down the bell curve after all.
 
I am not pushing what i believe to them at all. in fact, that's why i decided to write the warning on top.
and I mentioned the case could be an outlier, but maybe it isn't too far down the bell curve after all.
first they need very good math skills, some dont. Some like writing, 2nd is the combination of coding and biology is systems biology. Pharmacist who like to code would go toward that route. Each person has their own strength and weakness. Maybe that 15000 people 10 people would do it. Like I said if you go into these schools a lot of people come from psychology background, business, art just to give data science a shot. One guy was from geology that I happen to know. Its about leveraging your strengths and knowing yourself weakness
 
and tech changes every 2-3 years. Its why these firms dont really look for degrees, it takes too long, new languages come out. you have to learn every single day. You think the change is fast in pharmacy? try software engineering. One problem you solve and it becomes normalized
 
first they need very good math skills, some dont. Some like writing, 2nd is the combination of coding and biology is systems biology. Pharmacist who like to code would go toward that route. Each person has their own strength and weakness. Maybe that 15000 people 10 people would do it. Like I said if you go into these schools a lot of people come from psychology background, business, art just to give data science a shot. One guy was from geology that I happen to know. Its about leveraging your strengths and knowing yourself weakness
the purpose of having a forum is about information sharing and helping each other out. i wrote this thread with the hope that it might help someone who is just lurking on the forum and maybe it can initiate some brainstorming and change their career trajectories. that's all i wanted to do.
we do that all the time on piazza and slack to help each other learning and sharing knowledge, so why it gets so hard here?
 
and this is why pharmacists are mostly miserable, they come into pharmacy for the wrong reasons.
what you want is what you get, if you want to stay in pharmacy, thats how it is going to be. If you want residency and hospital job? go for it.
most people just enter because its easy, what you are suggesting is not easy especially for those people who have family and are not students anymore. Until a next saturation hits, what are we going to do? keep changing fields?
another thing is because the industry focuses on innovation and making new products all the time. You can be irreplacable only if you learn every single day and think of a product the world needs.
 
the purpose of having a forum is about information sharing and helping each other out. i wrote this thread with the hope that it might help someone who is just lurking on the forum and maybe it can initiate some brainstorming and change their career trajectories. that's all i wanted to do.
we do that all the time on piazza and slack to help each other learning and sharing knowledge, so why it gets so hard here?
because no one is interested lol. no one is going to change their life until the sky really starts to fall
 
and this is why pharmacists are mostly miserable, they come into pharmacy for the wrong reasons.
what you want is what you get, if you want to stay in pharmacy, thats how it is going to be. If you want residency and hospital job? go for it.
most people just enter because its easy, what you are suggesting is not easy especially for those people who have family and are not students anymore. Until a next saturation hits, what are we going to do? keep changing fields?
another thing is because the industry focuses on innovation and making new products all the time. You can be irreplacable only if you learn every single day and think of a product the world needs.
I met a former retail and outpatient pharmacist on reddit, and he changed his career path almost 10 years after graduation and working as a pharmacist, and now he is doing computational analytics track and about to graduate this year I think. He kinda inspired me a lot, and I am very grateful for seeing what he was going through.
So, I was just trying to disseminate the info here. maybe SDN is SDN after all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Pharmacy is the only thing people have similar on this forum, nothing else. Not tech, if you want a tech conversations make a meetup machine learning group. That why you can find people similar to you. Or make a facebook group on chat full of people interested in tech, or pharmacist who are interested. Its hard to change people unless they want to change themselves. It usually happens when they lose their jobs or girlfriend.
most people here arent even serious about pharmacy, how can they be serious about tech? people here are more interested in their 2nd degree which they know more about that includes me
 
Pharmacy is the only thing people have similar on this forum, nothing else. Not tech, if you want a tech conversations make a meetup machine learning group. That why you can find people similar to you. Or make a facebook group on chat full of people interested in tech, or pharmacist who are interested. Its hard to change people unless they want to change themselves. It usually happens when they lose their jobs or girlfriend.
most people here arent even serious about pharmacy, how can they be serious about tech? people here are more interested in their 2nd degree which they know more about that includes me
Alright, enough of me here then. :dead:
 
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 user
Alright, enough of me here then. :dead:
sorry :x, you know people just want to make a paycheck day to day. Have a family, pharmacy is just something that allows them to have a good time with less risk. Its been addressed on some of my topics
oh yeah, p.s dont try to save the world, they can only save themselves
 
Joma and techlead make $300-500k TC. Most software engineers in FAANMG snap/uber in metro are making that much after a few years. That's the going rate. But that's ok, there are plenty of students who still like to get into pharmacy for 0-120k, $250k loans with no job prospects after.

 
For those of people who are either deliberately ignorant or loves pharmacy to death, please do yourself a big favor and just skip this post~ You guys are not going to like the reality, or find any kind of satisfaction reading this.



Joma is someone I have followed for a quite some time on youtube, and FYI, he has a cs bachelor from uwaterloo and graduated in 2016. He had his first data scientist job right out of college at Facebook. And in one of his videos, he claimed his entry-level pay at Facebook was around 200k a year. He stayed there for 3 years, and recently he switched job to one of the FAANGULTAD for a SWE role.

For those who don't want to watch the full 14 minutes video, his new job has a total compensation of 278k annually, including the signing bonus.

If you want to think he's an outlier, maybe, but this is actually quite consistent with what I have been hearing from a lot of my cs friends.

For reference, in Silicon Valley's Mountain View, where the Apple campus is located, median home is priced around $1.6 million dollars. And for San Jose, which is like 15 minutes drive to Mountain View, the median 3-bedroom single house is priced around 1 million.

As pharmacy is going straight down the sink, for those of you who are still young and motivated enough and wishing to get out of the s**tty pharmacy environment and crappy pay, maybe this can help you brainstorm a little, maybe not. But I think it may worth a try, definitely not for all, but at least for some.



Dear colleagues, there are numerous opportunities to become wealthy in this country. I came across “government contract” 4 years ago. I was shocked to discover that you do not need a pharmacy degree to sell drugs to U.S Government.

You can set up your business as a broker to buy these contracts then sell them to another contractor.

Many contractors that supply to government have no clinical knowledge or any pharmacy related skills.

We need to work together to protect our profession. SMH on why we spent 6 years and $$ but “government contracting” was never mentioned in our curriculum.

I’m currently doing this as a side gig and if you’re interested please send a private message to me.
 
So you basically just confirmed all my points :)
tech is HOT after all ;)
either pure IT or back to healthcare analytics, tech is a far better option

Yes & no, I do not need to go back to get a comp sci degree. More importantly, these are areas in which a having a PharmD is beneficial. My point is just to build off of your invested education, not run from it.
 
not sure why you tagged me, but good luck!
FYI you will be working with EPIC not python
Tableau doesnt require code I hear

My mistake.

Eh, this depends entirely on the company you work for. You will not touch EPIC if you are not a health system, and I have colleagues who use Python in their day-to-day. Excel/VBA/SQL can be coding intensive depending on the project and the logic required to perform the task.
 
My mistake.

Eh, this depends entirely on the company you work for. You will not touch EPIC if you are not a health system, and I have colleagues who use Python in their day-to-day. Excel/VBA/SQL can be coding intensive depending on the project and the logic required to perform the task.
I asked all the informatics pharmacist and it's all epic setting
 
Top