Choosing Psyd/PhD programs

[orion.x]

Hi all! I am new here and wanted to get some insight into what people thought about some programs that I am considering applying to this fall when applications open. I am mainly applying to the PhD programs that are considered "equal emphasis" according to the Insider's Guide as I have much more clinical experience than research experience. If there is anything I should know about the schools/programs before applying that would be really appreciated!

PsyD programs:

• Palo Alto University
• Pacific University
• University of Hartford
• Midwestern University (Chicago)
• Spalding University
• Long Island University (Post campus)
• Florida Institute of Technology
• Roosevelt University

PhD programs:

• Northwestern University (Feinberg School of Medicine)
• University of Montana
• U-Mass Boston
• University of Utah
• University of South Carolina
• University of Hawaii - Manoa
• University of Vermont

Thank you in advance!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[psych.meout]

Do you have a strong research fit with one or more faculty at the PhD programs and with the programs overall (e.g., practica)?

 

[NeuroPsychosis]

I am mainly applying to the PhD programs that are considered "equal emphasis" according to the Insider's Guide as I have much more clinical experience than research experience.

Regardless of if the program has the equal emphasis, I believe all PhD programs still prefer research experience over clinical experience and are more based on fitness with a mentor (just something to keep in mind- just because they are 50/50 doesn't mean they place less emphasis on prior research experience).

However, I wanted to add, did you consider Baylor University's PsyD program? Although probably the most competitive in the country, but their program, to a degree, places emphasis on research. You are mentored by PhD faculty and the program requires research hours (working in a lab) in addition to clinical practicum...and a full dissertation prior to leaving for internship.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Although probably the most competitive in the country

Or Rutgers

 

[summerbabe]

Probably should avoid LIU at all costs: My insane program (LIU Post) has decided to enroll a class of 43 people next year

Get familiar with the APA accredited programs portal if you aren't yet and compare data such as how many students are generally admitted (big difference between 30+ new students a year versus 6-8), how many leave before graduating (lots = red flags), graduation time, licensure, EPPP pass rate, etc: APA-Accredited Programs

Programs like Spalding and Midwestern will not compare well to others on your list.

I am mainly applying to the PhD programs that are considered "equal emphasis" according to the Insider's Guide

How is your research fit with the PI/labs you are applying for on your list?

Equal emphasis is a really, really vague and potentially meaningless term. Within many programs, there are likely some PIs who are very research heavy (e.g., want their students to pursue academia, always trying to publish at a breakneck speed) and some who are more casual. So if you're applying to a research-heavy PI at any of these PhDs and that is an area of weakness, you may not get an interview. On the flip side, you may be eliminating possible fits at other programs that Insider has listed with a different designation.

One quick and dirty way to assess is to use Google Scholar and see how much your PI has published recently and how much they are cited. You're likely to find a better match with somebody publishing at a more leisurely pace who happens to also work in an area where you have some previous experience and continued interest. Good luck!

 

[psych.meout]

Probably should avoid LIU at all costs: My insane program (LIU Post) has decided to enroll a class of 43 people next year

Get familiar with the APA accredited programs portal if you aren't yet and compare data such as how many students are generally admitted (big difference between 30+ new students a year versus 6-8), how many leave before graduating (lots = red flags), graduation time, licensure, EPPP pass rate, etc: APA-Accredited Programs

Programs like Spalding and Midwestern will not compare well to others on your list.

How is your research fit with the PI/labs you are applying for on your list?

Equal emphasis is a really, really vague and potentially meaningless term. Within many programs, there are likely some PIs who are very research heavy (e.g., want their students to pursue academia, always trying to publish at a breakneck speed) and some who are more casual. So if you're applying to a research-heavy PI at any of these PhDs and that is an area of weakness, you may not get an interview. On the flip side, you may be eliminating possible fits at other programs that Insider has listed with a different designation.

One quick and dirty way to assess is to use Google Scholar and see how much your PI has published recently and how much they are cited. You're likely to find a better match with somebody publishing at a more leisurely pace who happens to also work in an area where you have some previous experience and continued interest. Good luck!

Yeah, as helpful as Norcross' book may be, it's important to not get too attached to any one thing in it as gospel. Like you're pointing out, there is substantial variability within programs. Just because the DCT rated the program on this weird Likert scale doesn't mean it's the unwavering opinion of all faculty in their program. In my clinical science program there are faculty who have never been licensed and want their students to go into TT faculty or other research positions, with even industry research jobs being beneath them. Other faculty are fine with their students having clinically focused careers (e.g., all the neuropsychologists from our program) as long as they're doing good research work during grad school.

 

[R. Matey]

It's not uncommon for people in clinically-balanced programs to come in with minimal research experience. After all, you're there to learn so don't sell yourself too short. Take the ratings from IG and weigh them appropriately with other information like faculty interests, pub records, and what former students are now doing since lone metrics are rarely perfect anyways.

As far as your list goes, I'd go for places that offer the most funding and can provide the most opportunities, which rules out more than half of your Psy.D. list. I also don't know if you're planning on clinical or counseling, but the UU and UMass-Boston counseling programs are both great though my memory is that UU has better funding.

 

[orion.x]

Do you have a strong research fit with one or more faculty at the PhD programs and with the programs overall (e.g., practica)?

Yes, the PhD programs that I have narrowed down definitely hold at least a few faculty members that I would like to work with, it's just a matter of if I have the experience they are looking for. Either way, I will be applying just to see.

 

[orion.x]

Regardless of if the program has the equal emphasis, I believe all PhD programs still prefer research experience over clinical experience and are more based on fitness with a mentor (just something to keep in mind- just because they are 50/50 doesn't mean they place less emphasis on prior research experience).

However, I wanted to add, did you consider Baylor University's PsyD program? Although probably the most competitive in the country, but their program, to a degree, places emphasis on research. You are mentored by PhD faculty and the program requires research hours (working in a lab) in addition to clinical practicum...and a full dissertation prior to leaving for internship.

I completely agree, although, it seems like some of these programs prepare students to have careers as clinicians rather than strictly in research/academia. I did consider Baylor but have been hesitant to apply!

 

[WisNeuro]

Is there a clinical/research emphasis that you are very interested in? That may help to narrow down better fit issues.

 

[orion.x]

Probably should avoid LIU at all costs: My insane program (LIU Post) has decided to enroll a class of 43 people next year

Get familiar with the APA accredited programs portal if you aren't yet and compare data such as how many students are generally admitted (big difference between 30+ new students a year versus 6-8), how many leave before graduating (lots = red flags), graduation time, licensure, EPPP pass rate, etc: APA-Accredited Programs

Programs like Spalding and Midwestern will not compare well to others on your list.

How is your research fit with the PI/labs you are applying for on your list?

Equal emphasis is a really, really vague and potentially meaningless term. Within many programs, there are likely some PIs who are very research heavy (e.g., want their students to pursue academia, always trying to publish at a breakneck speed) and some who are more casual. So if you're applying to a research-heavy PI at any of these PhDs and that is an area of weakness, you may not get an interview. On the flip side, you may be eliminating possible fits at other programs that Insider has listed with a different designation.

One quick and dirty way to assess is to use Google Scholar and see how much your PI has published recently and how much they are cited. You're likely to find a better match with somebody publishing at a more leisurely pace who happens to also work in an area where you have some previous experience and continued interest. Good luck!

Thank you for your insight. I have been taking a lot of the information from Insiders Guide to heart, so trying not to do that!

I will definitely start looking up how frequently faculty publish! I just want to go to a university that does clinical and research work without the research consuming most of the curriculum in the program, so we will see!

 

[orion.x]

It's not uncommon for people in clinically-balanced programs to come in with minimal research experience. After all, you're there to learn so don't sell yourself too short. Take the ratings from IG and weigh them appropriately with other information like faculty interests, pub records, and what former students are now doing since lone metrics are rarely perfect anyways.

As far as your list goes, I'd go for places that offer the most funding and can provide the most opportunities, which rules out more than half of your Psy.D. list. I also don't know if you're planning on clinical or counseling, but the UU and UMass-Boston counseling programs are both great though my memory is that UU has better funding.

Thank you! I am trying to not compare my application to what other applicants might look like, though it's very hard, especially because I do not have published work and have just a little bit of research experience.

Also, I am not considering counseling because I want the option to focus on neurodiverse individuals and neuropsychology if possible. Have you heard anything about UU and UMass Boston clinical programs, though?

 

[orion.x]

Is there a clinical/research emphasis that you are very interested in? That may help to narrow down better fit issues.

Yes! I have a variety of interests including neuropsychology, ADHD, ASD, trauma, adult areas, etc. I'm trying to find a program that has a faculty member who studies ASD in women specifically but there are not many that I have found!

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you for your insight. I have been taking a lot of the information from Insiders Guide to heart, so trying not to do that!

I will definitely start looking up how frequently faculty publish! I just want to go to a university that does clinical and research work without the research consuming most of the curriculum in the program, so we will see!

Even labs/mentors within a university will vary quite a bit. We definitely had labs where everyone was going R1 TT, but others that were minimal research, almost all of their time in clinical prac. So, don't write off a program because some faculty are very productive.

Yes! I have a variety of interests including neuropsychology, ADHD, ASD, trauma, adult areas, etc. I'm trying to find a program that has a faculty member who studies ASD in women specifically but there are not many that I have found!

This is a pretty broad range of topics, so pretty hard to narrow down. Especially the first parts of your stated interests would be dozens of programs.

 

[R. Matey]

Thank you! I am trying to not compare my application to what other applicants might look like, though it's very hard, especially because I do not have published work and have just a little bit of research experience.

It's not uncommon for people to have few or even no pubs when they enter a clinically focused program.

 

[EnPsychlopedia]

Yes! I have a variety of interests including neuropsychology, ADHD, ASD, trauma, adult areas, etc. I'm trying to find a program that has a faculty member who studies ASD in women specifically but there are not many that I have found!

Narrow it down. You’re going to have an exceptionally hard time tailoring a CV and Statement of Purpose without honing in on a couple of things. If there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s that a good application is not just about showing interest and qualifications, but also demonstrating why you are interested in those things. If, e.g., you are interested in cognition but also depression, what is the connective tissue between them? If ASD and ADHD, maybe look at something which connects them (e.g., neurodevelopmental work broadly). In a field as broad as ours, it can be difficult to not be interested in everything, but you have to try and specialize to at least a moderate extent to have any hope of finding a mentor who’s willing to pour 5-7 yrs. of their life and tons of grant money into moulding you.

 

[orion.x]

It's not uncommon for people to have few or even no pubs when they enter a clinically focused program.

That is good to know, it's just something I have seen that is mentioned often on the admission requirements page of the programs.

 

[WisNeuro]

That is good to know, it's just something I have seen that is mentioned often on the admission requirements page of the programs.

If you're applying to a very research heavy program, or a specific lab that is very research oriented and very competitive, you'll need some pubs. If you're applying to more balanced or clinically-focused programs, it's more important to just have some meaningful research experience.

 

[JeyRo]

Time for the debt discussion yet? Or is that just passé now

 

[orion.x]

Time for the debt discussion yet? Or is that just passé now

ugh every current student in a PsyD program that I've spoken to has said there are limited GA's, if any. I'm feeling discouraged when I hear that cohort sizes are going up and match rates going down....

 

[psych.meout]

ugh every current student in a PsyD program that I've spoken to has said there are limited GA's, if any. I'm feeling discouraged when I hear that cohort sizes are going up and match rates going down....

Most PsyD programs (and PhD programs at diploma mills) are completely unfunded and a few have some token funding or a tiny number of assistantships that only a select few students get and they don't completely cover their costs of attendance (i.e., tuition and fees), let alone living expenses. There's handful that are fully funded (Baylor and a couple others)but they are as competitive as any fully funded PhD program.

And yes, the unfunded programs have large cohort sizes because it's in their financial interests to do so (more students=more money) and they have low standards when it comes to admissions. This also means that they don't care all that much if you can't finish or have to drop out, because they haven't spent any money on you, you have been paying them, and they can just replace you with another paying student.

Compare this with fully funded programs. They're paying you to attend along with a handful of other students in your cohort, which means they're investing in you and have a personal and financial interest in seeing you succeed.