Chiropractor wanting to become M.D.

[hoselton]

Hi All,

Wanted to introduce myself to you all and then ask a couple questions if I could. Let me give you a quick background of my education.

I have a B.A. in Theology from Ambassador College; a B.S. in Exercise Science from Southeast MO State U; a Master's from Wichita State U; and a Doctorate in Chiropractic from Cleveland Chiropractic College. I have spent 12 years of my life in higher education, and am thinking of going for more.

I'm currently practicing in a small town in MO, where I've been for 4 years and I'm 36 years old. That's the long and short of my life. Now I was hoping that with that background, you all could give me some advice.

I'd like to go back to school for an M.D., but I am concerned about my age. How do schools look upon applicants my age? Would my educational background be an advantage or a disadvantage? I think advantage because it shows that I can complete the task and do the work. A disadvantage if they think that I'm "course correcting" all the time.

I have all the requirements to apply for school except the MCAT. I've never taken it. And I'm am concerned about taking it since it's been so long since I've studied Physics, Chem., etc. I'm not so sure I would do well. Has anyone heard of any schools that don't require an MCAT or would consider making an exception with my educational background?

Sorry to blather on so long. I appreciate finding a place that could give some input on this.

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[ntmed]

I'd like to go back to school for an M.D., but I am concerned about my age. How do schools look upon applicants my age

I didn't start medical school until I was 40. I'm in my 4th year now.

To answer your specific questions: All medical schools in the U.S. require the MCAT. No medical school will make an exception for a DC.

 

[BackTalk]

What do you want the MD for? Do really want to practice medicine or just want another challenge?

Listen, you could always go the Caribbean route. Hang in there, there are quite a few DC's in medical school who frequent this place.

Where you at in Missouri? I from St. Louis but practically live at Lake of the Ozarks in the summer.

 

[hoselton]

What do you want the MD for? Do really want to practice medicine or just want another challenge?

Listen, you could always go the Caribbean route. Hang in there, there are quite a few DC's in medical school who frequent this place.

Where you at in Missouri? I from St. Louis but practically live at Lake of the Ozarks in the summer.

I always enjoy challenges, but I want to add to my knowledge base so I can better treat my patients. I'd also like the option of providing medication for the ones that need it. I'm frustrated by the lack of cooperation between DC's and MD's. It goes both ways I know, but from my perspective, I see far too many patients on a self-referral basis that should have been referred from the MD if they weren't so stubborn to refer them.

I also see many patients that have been on Muscle relaxers that don't help, but adjustments do. So I'd really like to be able to integrate to two professions wherever I'm able.

I've thought about the Carribbean route. I don't think I'd have a problem getting in -- but I do have some concerns about placement into Residencies.

I'm in Fulton, MO. I've spent a lot of time at the Lake myself. I graduated High school from Versailles (if you know where that is).

Are there any DC's that have done what I'm talking about that you know of?

Thanks for you help

 

[hoselton]

I didn't start medical school until I was 40. I'm in my 4th year now. I talk about some of the lessons I learned about being an older applicant on my web site. Feel free to email with after you check it out.

To answer your specific questions: All medical schools in the U.S. require the MCAT. No medical school will make an exception for a DC.

Well that's comforting. Are you married, do you have any children? That's another concern of mine. I don't really want to put off kids for much longer. I'll check out your website, thanks.

I wasn't sure any would make an exception. They have to have that useless test for their statistics. In my position, it's for nothing else. But as I said, I'm still concerned about taking the test with not having studied those classes for so long. I'm wondering what would happen if I did poorly? I just took a sample test (10 questions from each section) on some website. I got 8 out of 10 on the verbal reasoning and 3 out of 10 on each of the sciences. Not too good. It's amazing how much you lose when you're not in an academic environment for a few years.

 

[BackTalk]

I always enjoy challenges, but I want to add to my knowledge base so I can better treat my patients. I'd also like the option of providing medication for the ones that need it. I'm frustrated by the lack of cooperation between DC's and MD's. It goes both ways I know, but from my perspective, I see far too many patients on a self-referral basis that should have been referred from the MD if they weren't so stubborn to refer them.

I also see many patients that have been on Muscle relaxers that don't help, but adjustments do. So I'd really like to be able to integrate to two professions wherever I'm able.

I've thought about the Carribbean route. I don't think I'd have a problem getting in -- but I do have some concerns about placement into Residencies.

I'm in Fulton, MO. I've spent a lot of time at the Lake myself. I graduated High school from Versailles (if you know where that is).

Are there any DC's that have done what I'm talking about that you know of?

Thanks for you help

I always enjoy challenges, but I want to add to my knowledge base so I can better treat my patients. I'd also like the option of providing medication for the ones that need it. I'm frustrated by the lack of cooperation between DC's and MD's. It goes both ways I know, but from my perspective, I see far too many patients on a self-referral basis that should have been referred from the MD if they weren't so stubborn to refer them.

I totally agree with you.

I also see many patients that have been on Muscle relaxers that don't help, but adjustments do. So I'd really like to be able to integrate to two professions wherever I'm able.

Same here. You know, we see it all the time. You will make a better MD with your DC background.

I've thought about the Carribbean route. I don't think I'd have a problem getting in -- but I do have some concerns about placement into Residencies.

I understand. I believe it's easy to land a residency in family medicine. A DC on this board who is in medical school told me.

I'm in Fulton, MO. I've spent a lot of time at the Lake myself. I graduated High school from Versailles (if you know where that is).

That's funny because I was just in Fulton in September. I was bringing my boat back from the lake and the tow ball came lose . I had no way to tighten it as the nut holding it down is huge and I didn't have anything large enough to tighten it. I tightened it the best I could with my hands (strong hands from being a DC )and then drove very cautiously into Fulton (I was in Holts Summit filling up when I noticed it). Of course nothing was open (Sunday) but I happened to find a Super Wal-Mart. You gotta love those even though the bastards dumped all their chiropractic benefits . Anyway, I bought a big wrench there to tighten it and was on my way. I know of Versailles as well. I actually have a patient from around there that moved where I'm at, to live with her daughter. She still has a farm there. I thought Fulton was a great town and had plenty of charm, plus you are not too far from the lake, Jeff city and not far from KC or St. Louis. Don't know the demographics though. I have a patient from Lynn Missouri and have talked to her chiropractor there recently. Is that near you?

Are there any DC's that have done what I'm talking about that you know of?

Yes. In fact a few are on this board. Jdig is a DC and third year medical student http://forums.studentdoctor.net/member.php?userid=57848

 

[ntmed]

It goes both ways I know, but from my perspective, I see far too many patients on a self-referral basis that should have been referred from the MD if they weren't so stubborn to refer them.

I also see many patients that have been on Muscle relaxers that don't help, but adjustments do. So I'd really like to be able to integrate to two professions wherever I'm able.

Please don't take this personally, but I would be very careful about this issue. Personally, I don't care what you believe in. But I will tell you that many MDs are uncomfortable with chiropractors, because some DCs hurt their patients by discouraging them from seeking legitimate medical care. I'll give you one example that I've seen. A DC in an office I share encourages people with Rheumatoid Arthritis to get chiropractic adjustments and to stop using DMRAs (disease modifying agents). He does the same for diabetics, hypertensives, and others. He alsohands out literature on these subjects that doesn't directly say this, but very strongly implies this.

I know that not all DCs are this negligent. But my point is that if you repeat what you said to the schools you apply to, you run the risk of getting lumped in with the bad ones, and you'll likely hurt your chances of getting into medical school.

I've thought about the Carribbean route. I don't think I'd have a problem getting in -- but I do have some concerns about placement into Residencies.

Only 25% of those who go to medical school outside the U.S. are able to get into a residency in the U.S. I would only go to the Carribbean if I couldn't get into an MD or DO program in the U.S. after several attempts.

 

[doogyhowser]

have you looked into D.O. school? i would think you guys would have more similarities in your approach to medicine? still need the mcat though.

hey ntmed, where did you get that stat of only 25% of carib grads getting u.s. residency. i'd like to read more on that one.

 

[ntmed]

hey ntmed, where did you get that stat of only 25% of carib grads getting u.s. residency. i'd like to read more on that one.

The number is based on the USMLE pass rate (http://www.usmle.org/scores/scores.htm) and the NRMP match rate (www.nrmp.org) for FMGs/IMGs.

Historically, only about 50% of IMGs will pass the USMLE (actually, the number has been higher the last couple years). And of those who pass, only about 50% will get into a residency in the U.S. This amounts to a success rate of 25%, if you attend medical school in another country (probably closer to 30% the last couple years). These numbers are the same for IMG students born in the U.S. as well as those who are foreign-born.

Another issue on IMGs is that if you are successful, you most likely will be limited to a community residency program (as opposed to an academic program), which means your ability to get into a competitive subspecialty or fellowship will be limited.

 

[doogyhowser]

thanks for the link dude, i'll check it out.

the carib sites throw out numbers like 90% of grads matching and 95% usmle pass rate, etc.

i'd sure hate to get screwed

 

[hoselton]

Please don't take this personally, but I would be very careful about this issue. Personally, I don't care what you believe in. But I will tell you that many MDs are uncomfortable with chiropractors, because some DCs hurt their patients by discouraging them from seeking legitimate medical care. I'll give you one example that I've seen. A DC in an office I share encourages people with Rheumatoid Arthritis to get chiropractic adjustments and to stop using DMRAs (disease modifying agents). He does the same for diabetics, hypertensives, and others. He alsohands out literature on these subjects that doesn't directly say this, but very strongly implies this.

I know that not all DCs are this negligent. But my point is that if you repeat what you said to the schools you apply to, you run the risk of getting lumped in with the bad ones, and you'll likely hurt your chances of getting into medical school.

Thanks for the advice. No offense taken to your statement. I'm aware of the sensitivities of MD's. Every profession wants to think that they have it all. My sister is a PT and a friend is a DO -- and both think that their profession is better than all the rest. I know DC's think the same -- so I sure wouldn't go into the Big hornets nest and try to stir something up. We all have ego's.

I have heard and know of others that do things very similar to what your colleague does. It's sad true. I'm sure we could trade stories all day long. I have a laundry list of stories about MD's as well. The hospital missed a bilateral facet dislocation on one patient that came in to see me. I immediately referred to out to an ortho group. I would have paralyzed him if I adjusted him. He's just fortunate that he came to my office and not another DC's office in town.

Only 25% of those who go to medical school outside the U.S. are able to get into a residency in the U.S. I would only go to the Carribbean if I couldn't get into an MD or DO program in the U.S. after several attempts.

I recently heard this, but I wonder what the pass rate of the USMLE and Residency acceptance is for specific schools in the Carribbean? That's really the question. Because there are a whole lot of suspect schools all over the world that I'm sure churn out MD's that will take USMLE. So I'm not sure it's fair to make a generalization. I'll have to check out the stats and see if there is a breakdown -- kinda doubt it though.

 

[hoselton]

I didn't start medical school until I was 40. I'm in my 4th year now. I talk about some of the lessons I learned about being an older applicant on my web site. Feel free to email with after you check it out.

To answer your specific questions: All medical schools in the U.S. require the MCAT. No medical school will make an exception for a DC.

I checked out your website and really appreciated it. Very well done and informative. Thanks for the hard work. I have some more questions for you -- so should I email you or just post them here?

 

[hoselton]

To BackTalk


Hey, well if you come through the bustling town of Fulton again, stop in a say hi. I'm in the phone book and on the main drag in town

You know, I'm not sure where Linn is. I think it's a river town along 50 Hwy though.

 

[ntmed]

Thanks for the advice. No offense taken to your statement.

Thanks.

I recently heard this, but I wonder what the pass rate of the USMLE and Residency acceptance is for specific schools in the Carribbean? That's really the question. Because there are a whole lot of suspect schools all over the world that I'm sure churn out MD's that will take USMLE. So I'm not sure it's fair to make a generalization. I'll have to check out the stats and see if there is a breakdown -- kinda doubt it though.

You're right that some are better than others. You should be able to check with individual schools. But even in the best of situations, it would still be an uphill battle to get respect. I just finished my residency interviews, and ran into dozens of IMGs hoping to get into a decent residency, but knowing the odds were against them.