Chiropody in Ontario, Canada

[jesse14]

Hello pods,

As an Ontario citizen i know i can't be a DPM and come back here to practice because new pods arn't allowed in Ontario because we now have chiropodists. I was just wondering of anyone knew if Chiropodists do as well as pods do in the states?? I'm interested in chiropody but i've heard mixed opinions on the profession.
Any and all information would be great

Thank you

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[Podman]

jesse,

I have alot of friends from toronto, ontario and have met and had discussions with the ontario podiatric medicine association president Dr. Kel Sherkin. I can tell you that the current chiropidy model in Ontario is about to change within the next 3 years and podiatrists will be allowed to practice again - this is a consequence of the failure of the current chiropidy model to deliver adequate foot care to the province. The province shifted to the chiropidy model as a cheaper alternative for foot care and the results have been horrible - lawsuits, malpractice, etc. Keep in mind that a podiatry degree is a post graduate doctoral degree (+ hospital training/residency) whereas the chiropidy is a certificate (3 years after highschool) so the depth of the training is of course very different and this imposes heavy limitations on chiropidists.

Here in the U.S., we practice podiatry with surgical previlidges and full diagnostic rights to conditions pertaining to the lower extremity. Chiropidy doesn't play a major role from my experience in Ohio and Michigan so far but I can tell you that they can work side by side - similar to a relationship of a dental hygenist and a dentist. They work within the same geographical area of the body but the training and level of expertise vary greatly.

If you are interested in chiropidy just for the sake of staying in Ontario as a "foot care specialist" then to be honest with you, podiatry might be a better option since it gives you more professional freedom. However, if you are genuinely interested in pursuing chiropidy with its restrictions and scope - keeping in mind that the province is changing its model to a U.S. podiatry model just like the rest of the provinces (alberta and BC being most notable) then of course good luck to you and do what makes you happy.

if you have further questions, please feel free to pm me at any time.

good luck

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Interesting. So DPMs are not allowed to practice in the providence? Or do they compete w/ the chiropodists?

 

[Podman]

Interesting. So DPMs are not allowed to practice in the providence? Or do they compete w/ the chiropodists?

no apparently as of 1994, a podiatry cap was placed so no new DPM's can practice - the pre-existing DPM's still practice today but no new DPM's have came to the province since 1994. This was the province push for a chiropidy model that was supposed to be "cheaper". The results were horrible of course because you can't rely on a technician to provide the services of a podiatrist. For that reason, the province is in the process of reverting back to the US model of podiatry.

As of this moment though, a US trained DPM can practice in Ontario but as a chiropidist (therefore, restricted and financially very restricted). The DPM's who practiced before 1994 can prescribe medications but can't do surgery beyond forefoot - so they rely on in-office surgery suites for bunions, hammertoes, in-growns, etc. But i'll have to admit those guys are really good - they rely alot on conservative treatments with orthotics.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Interesting. Thanks for the knowledge.

 

[jesse14]

How exactly will the US pod model be implemented in Ontario? Will schools of podiatric medicine open up here or willl pods just be allowed to come back here to practice and have a reular scope of practice?

 

[Podman]

How exactly will the US pod model be implemented in Ontario? Will schools of podiatric medicine open up here or willl pods just be allowed to come back here to practice and have a reular scope of practice?

there's a school that opened up in quebec and it is affiliated with NYCPM. I'm not sure of any schools opening in Ontario but I can check to make sure first. However, with regards to implementing the US model - it is by allowing DPM's to practice using their higher standard of training versus having them limited to practicing chiropidy. Therefore, the cap is expected to be removed and so the main experts in foot and ankle conditions will be the DPMs rather than the current chiropidists. With respect to the current chiropidists, I don't really know what can be done because they can still work as chiropidists with their applied training to assist DPM's - but i'm not 100 percent sure about that.

To put everything into perspective, Ontario is in the process of changing their healthcare system and reimbursments and part of the change is adopting the US podiatry model versus the current british chiropidy one just like many of the other provinces. There's a TON of politics involved thats for sure

 

[106312]

Michener graduates can no longer get advanced standing at Temple. Too many changes to the program.

 

[hijinxx7]

no apparently as of 1994, a podiatry cap was placed so no new DPM's can practice - the pre-existing DPM's still practice today but no new DPM's have came to the province since 1994. This was the province push for a chiropidy model that was supposed to be "cheaper". The results were horrible of course because you can't rely on a technician to provide the services of a podiatrist. For that reason, the province is in the process of reverting back to the US model of podiatry.

As of this moment though, a US trained DPM can practice in Ontario but as a chiropidist (therefore, restricted and financially very restricted). The DPM's who practiced before 1994 can prescribe medications but can't do surgery beyond forefoot - so they rely on in-office surgery suites for bunions, hammertoes, in-growns, etc. But i'll have to admit those guys are really good - they rely alot on conservative treatments with orthotics.

Any idea when this model change back to DPM is going to take place and to be finalized?

Even with DPMs being back allowed into the province, from the discussion you had, are the restrictions subject to change as well? ie)would DPMs be allowed to do rearfoot surgery, etc?

 

[106312]

Any idea when this model change back to DPM is going to take place and to be finalized?

Even with DPMs being back allowed into the province, from the discussion you had, are the restrictions subject to change as well? ie)would DPMs be allowed to do rearfoot surgery, etc?

It is not changing to a DPM model. The Ontario and Canadian government still heavily subsidize the DCh school program, and are not going to cut out their own domestically trained clinicians. Change seems to be going the British route for domestically trained, with a removal on the restrictions placed on Podiatrists (They will be allowed to register as Podiatrists and carry out the Ontario scope of a Podiatrist instead of registering as Chiropodists under the Ontario Chiropodist scope like they do now, which sounds more than fair to me, we all just want our training to be recognized).

Please remember that DPMs in Ontario haven't been recognized as doctors by the medical association unlike in the US and other provinces. In some provinces, DCh are members of the podiatry college, where as DPMs are members of the College of Physicians and Surgeons with hospital privileges. If you want increased scope and privileges, you'll have to fight with them/fight to join them. It's all political.

The current scope/legislation allows for only forefoot surgery by Podiatrists, and this will probably not change, I am not aware of any proposals to increase the surgical scope. You would have to fight with the Orthopedic surgeons for the right. You would have to maintain a sterile OR suite (VERY $$$) or fight for OR privileges and patients would have to pay out of pocket B/C Ontario is just not willing to foot the bill for anything more.

Ontario is just different from the US. Really, if you could get it for free, why would you pay? The people who can afford to pay will often go to US directly.

The College is working towards for improvements to the legislation backing our ability to carry out our scope of practice with less risk of litigation (Both DCh and DPMs), hopefully it will be passed within the next 1-2 years depending on how slowly the political wheels turn.

 

[Podman]

It is not changing to a DPM model. The Ontario and Canadian government still heavily subsidize the DCh school program, and are not going to cut out their own domestically trained clinicians. Change seems to be going the British route for domestically trained, with a removal on the restrictions placed on Podiatrists (They will be allowed to register as Podiatrists and carry out the Ontario scope of a Podiatrist instead of registering as Chiropodists under the Ontario Chiropodist scope like they do now, which sounds more than fair to me, we all just want our training to be recognized).

Please remember that DPMs in Ontario haven't been recognized as doctors by the medical association unlike in the US and other provinces. In some provinces, DCh are members of the podiatry college, where as DPMs are members of the College of Physicians and Surgeons with hospital privileges. If you want increased scope and privileges, you'll have to fight with them/fight to join them. It's all political.

The current scope/legislation allows for only forefoot surgery by Podiatrists, and this will probably not change, I am not aware of any proposals to increase the surgical scope. You would have to fight with the Orthopedic surgeons for the right. You would have to maintain a sterile OR suite (VERY $$$) or fight for OR privileges and patients would have to pay out of pocket B/C Ontario is just not willing to foot the bill for anything more.

Ontario is just different from the US. Really, if you could get it for free, why would you pay? The people who can afford to pay will often go to US directly.

The College is working towards for improvements to the legislation backing our ability to carry out our scope of practice with less risk of litigation (Both DCh and DPMs), hopefully it will be passed within the next 1-2 years depending on how slowly the political wheels turn.

Thanks for the info, but when i said US model of podiatry, I meant having US-trained DPMs practice within their scope of training, which is the expected change while maintaining the role and scopes of chiropists as well - that sounds reasonable to all parties.

Regarding the scope of practice, I agree with you that it would have to be an uphill battle because the DPMs over there don't have sufficient surgical training. However, with the doors opening for surgically trained DPMs into the province, I believe the potential can be very well down the road.

 

[dpmgrad]

Post deleted since TUSPM no longer accepts Michener graduates for advanced standing as of 2010.

 

[DocFoot]

Hi,
I am one of those student that transfered. If you have any question please ask!

 

[AL17]

Hi,
I am one of those student that transfered. If you have any question please ask!

Hi DocFoot, I am one of the chiropodist student from Michener. So how did first year go for you? How was the NBPME part 1? Does Temple have any other specific requirement beside "the basic science exam" and DCh (with BSc)? Oh yeah, what's the tuition fee for your two years? Is it possible for me to practice as a chiropodist in ontario for a few years (to save up money) then go for DPM? So are you going to practice in U.S? coming back to Ontario is a waste of time and money I think.

thanks

 

[jesse14]

Hey Docfoot,

I actually do have a few questions for you:

1) Since michener doesn't require the MCAT or many of the sepcific prereqs Temple asks for, would they still let you in if you had the D.Ch but didn't have the specific repreqs or MCAT?

2) Do you apply yo the accelerates Temple DPM program after your last year at michener? Or do you do it at the begining of the 3rd year of the chiropody program?

3) Did michener give you information about this program while in school or did you have to contact Temple yourself for the information?

4) How are you finind the pod program in comparison to the chiropody program? And i think this has been asked but what do you plan to do once you have gotten your DPM? Do you want to stay in teh states and practice?

Thank you for your time and best of luck!

 

[DocFoot]

1- no
2- end of 2nd
3- a little of both
4- Schooling is much different more stressful and longer hours. More instructors allowing you to respect different treatment options. At the end of the day I am glad I moved allowing me to better treat my patients and refer less. My plans... well right now I have a small practice in Toronto; actually, its picking up and i require a registered chiropodist (know anyone?) but I will be doing a 3 yr residency in the us and eventually living here.

TTYL

 

[Dr F]

jesse,

I have alot of friends from toronto, ontario and have met and had discussions with the ontario podiatric medicine association president Dr. Kel Sherkin. I can tell you that the current chiropidy model in Ontario is about to change within the next 3 years and podiatrists will be allowed to practice again - this is a consequence of the failure of the current chiropidy model to deliver adequate foot care to the province. The province shifted to the chiropidy model as a cheaper alternative for foot care and the results have been horrible - lawsuits, malpractice, etc. Keep in mind that a podiatry degree is a post graduate doctoral degree (+ hospital training/residency) whereas the chiropidy is a certificate (3 years after highschool) so the depth of the training is of course very different and this imposes heavy limitations on chiropidists.

Here in the U.S., we practice podiatry with surgical previlidges and full diagnostic rights to conditions pertaining to the lower extremity. Chiropidy doesn't play a major role from my experience in Ohio and Michigan so far but I can tell you that they can work side by side - similar to a relationship of a dental hygenist and a dentist. They work within the same geographical area of the body but the training and level of expertise vary greatly.

If you are interested in chiropidy just for the sake of staying in Ontario as a "foot care specialist" then to be honest with you, podiatry might be a better option since it gives you more professional freedom. However, if you are genuinely interested in pursuing chiropidy with its restrictions and scope - keeping in mind that the province is changing its model to a U.S. podiatry model just like the rest of the provinces (alberta and BC being most notable) then of course good luck to you and do what makes you happy.

if you have further questions, please feel free to pm me at any time.

good luck

The title of this thread is "Chiropody in Ontario, Canada" but Podman keeps spelling it Chiropidy. Which one is it?

Thanks

-F out

 

[Podman]

The title of this thread is "Chiropody in Ontario, Canada" but Podman keeps spelling it Chiropidy. Which one is it?

Thanks

-F out

my appologies, it is actually "chiropody" rather than "chiropidy". I didn't realize that my recurrent spelling mistakes would cause that much confusion with understanding the points presented.

 

[Dr F]

THANKS!
I wasn't sure if it was Chiropidy and pidiatry or Orthotics(proper) or orthodics(wrong).
I'm good to go on everything now!

- F out

 

[Podman]

THANKS!
I wasn't sure if it was Chiropidy and pidiatry or Orthotics(proper) or orthodics(wrong).
I'm good to go on everything now!

- F out

Good work doctor

 

[Dr F]

My plans... well right now I have a small practice in Toronto; actually, its picking up and i require a registered chiropodist (know anyone?) but I will be doing a 3 yr residency in the us and eventually living here.

TTYL

Darryl have you tried advertising on www.ontariochiropodist.com ?

 

[sunglasses]

1- no
2- end of 2nd
3- a little of both
4- Schooling is much different more stressful and longer hours. More instructors allowing you to respect different treatment options. At the end of the day I am glad I moved allowing me to better treat my patients and refer less. My plans... well right now I have a small practice in Toronto; actually, its picking up and i require a registered chiropodist (know anyone?) but I will be doing a 3 yr residency in the us and eventually living here.

TTYL

Docfoot, I was just wondering how you were doing with the transition to Temple. Were the board exams ok? and when exactly did you hear from temple to tell u u were accepted into the advanced program.

thx

 

[randy123]

Hi, I'm a student in grade 12 and I am having a lot of difficulty in finding a college/university that offers a chiropody program. I live in Ontario and I want to be a chiropodist. Are there any programs that you know of that I can take? I know there is Micheners Institute in Toronto...but that means that I will have to spend four years in University to earn a bachelors degree and then three years at Micheners Institute, correct? That is not really what i'm looking for ..because 7 years in post secondary education is too much schooling....I have looked all over and am having trouble knowing where to go and what programs to apply for since I cant find anything. I have to start applying soon and am becoming desperate to find some sort of post-secondary education where I can become a chiropodist. Is there any alternatives instead of studying for 7 years or is there something else offered in micheners institute that I could look into that is less schooling? thanks

 

[darazon]

Hi, I'm a student in grade 12 and I am having a lot of difficulty in finding a college/university that offers a chiropody program. I live in Ontario and I want to be a chiropodist. Are there any programs that you know of that I can take? I know there is Micheners Institute in Toronto...but that means that I will have to spend four years in University to earn a bachelors degree and then three years at Micheners Institute, correct? That is not really what i'm looking for ..because 7 years in post secondary education is too much schooling....I have looked all over and am having trouble knowing where to go and what programs to apply for since I cant find anything. I have to start applying soon and am becoming desperate to find some sort of post-secondary education where I can become a chiropodist. Is there any alternatives instead of studying for 7 years or is there something else offered in micheners institute that I could look into that is less schooling? thanks

Chiropody is a dying profession in Canada. Just talk to any of the chiropodists in Ontario. I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you how much they "love" their profession!

 

[randy123]

ok...can i ask you...what is the least amount of post-secondary education that i can do to become a podiatrist? It seems that the least amount while going to micheners institute is 7 years. but other websites have told me i can go to university for three or four years which is much more appealing to me. is this true? and if so...where can i go to school?

 

[darazon]

ok...can i ask you...what is the least amount of post-secondary education that i can do to become a podiatrist? It seems that the least amount while going to micheners institute is 7 years. but other websites have told me i can go to university for three or four years which is much more appealing to me. is this true? and if so...where can i go to school?

Podiatry schools are only in the US. There are 9 of them. You need 4 years Undergrad, 4 years medical school, and a 3 year surgical residency. Technically, you can only have 2 years undergrad -if you have all the required science pre-reqs and a stellar GPA and MCAT.

That's the absolute minimum for podiatry.

I don't know anything about Micheners, but I can tell you it is not a podiatry school. Sorry.

 

[randy123]

hi...what is a chiropodist assistant?...Are their programs I can take to become a chiropodist assistant? (perhaps like a medical assistant program?) if so..where can I study...and how long is the program?

 

[Mickyb]

Hi Guys. could you tell me what the employment prospects are for a podiatrist / chiropodist in ontario. I am a podiatrist in the UK and thinking of emigrating over

 

[Shireiqiang]

Check out this link,

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=121

I don't know of anyone who is a regular on SDN who would have this type of info. The best thing to do would be try and contact someone who has already moved over to Ontario. Here is a way to find some docs that you could contact.

http://www.ontariochiropodist.com/pg_38.asp?R=Ontario&T=*

Just out of curiousity why ontario? It seems like setting up in western canada would be a better option. Good Luck.

 

[106312]

hi...what is a chiropodist assistant?...Are their programs I can take to become a chiropodist assistant? (perhaps like a medical assistant program?) if so..where can I study...and how long is the program?

I know this post is old, but perhaps you are still looking. There is no formal training for Chiropody Assistant. If you are reasonably smart and able to clean up stuff, you can simply apply for a position. Chiropody assistant jobs are posted up on Craigslist, Monster etc periodically. If I were hiring, I would require High School completion, some university or college in sciences or health sciences, or a medical records/medical assistant program.

Search it online yourself. Go online and research a community college near you. I recommend you find out how to research this sort of information yourself to improve your job prospects.

Is that too rude? I hope you are not insulted, but I honestly wouldn't hire someone who couldn't carry out a simple internet search to find a Community College medical assistant program near them and find out for themselves how long the program is. You need to be computer literate to work in my office.

Best of luck.

Sarah

 

[jose007]

Can you please tell us how the D.Pod.M program at Michener has changed and what can be expected now that the US model is being emphasized (especially with the recent name change)? Also why will recent grads from Michener not be able to gain transfer/advance standing at US Podiatry schools and/or apply for the 2-3 year residency in PM&S?

 

[TALEB]

Hi , every body
first of all I am really very grateful for both lady and gentleman here.

secondly, my sister is interested to do her master degree in Canada particular in this subject (podiatry).

my question is , which university would be have this program ?

greetings,


TALEB

 

[heeltoe]

The only school in Canada that offers a podiatry program currently is Laval as far I know and that is only offered in French. Information on that program seems to be difficult to come by so you may want to contact the school directly if you are interested. I should add that I am told that is a DPM program and not a "masters/msc" if that is what you are specifically looking for. Hopefully that helps a little.