Chilling new message from a pharmacy podcast

[deleted562805]

I guess it basically comes down to the fact that hospitals (and even LTC facilities) can afford to be as picky as they want, especially since there is now even an oversaturation of residency-trained pharmacists. The hospital I used to work as an intern at accepts & graduates 10-12 pharmacists per year in its residency program. At this point I think it would honestly be less stressful to just try to force myself to forget I ever went to pharmacy school in the first place and just transition into a totally new career.

So looks like You will avoid paying for the NAPLEX and MPJE. I agree it would be less stressful to switch to another career

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[Hedgehog32]

So looks like You will avoid paying for the NAPLEX and MPJE. I agree it would be less stressful to switch to another career

Still not 100% decided either way when it comes to the NAPLEX/MPJE but am leaning towards not taking them. Trying to figure out whether I might regret not having gotten licensed at some point in the future. The only potential scenario in which I could imagine this being the case is if I was randomly offered a job by the DOP of the hospital I used to work for, in the event that they randomly decide to make an exception to the policy of hiring only residency-trained pharmacists.

 

[steveysmith54]

Still not 100% decided either way when it comes to the NAPLEX/MPJE but am leaning towards not taking them. Trying to figure out whether I might regret not having gotten licensed at some point in the future. The only potential scenario in which I could imagine this being the case is if I was randomly offered a job by the DOP of the hospital I used to work for, in the event that they randomly decide to make an exception to the policy of hiring only residency-trained pharmacists.

I'd take the exams.
As far as career goes, depends on your age, money situation, family situation, etc.
If I was still 25/26 years old when I finished my Pharm.D., I'd go to M.D./D.O program.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I'd take the exams.
As far as career goes, depends on your age, money situation, family situation, etc.
If I was still 25/26 years old when I finished my Pharm.D., I'd go to M.D./D.O program.

Unfortunately, I'm in my early 30s, so pursuing an alternative career that takes as long to eventually begin as does the physician profession is not really feasible for me at this point (otherwise, I'd agree with you).

That's why I'm seriously looking into whether a 4-month CS bootcamp could be a viable avenue for starting a software developer career.

The silver lining of my situation (if you can call it that) is that I'm not married and don't have any kids, so at least nobody else is suffering because of my ill-fated decision to go to pharmacy school. I also moved back in with my family shortly after the start of my P4 yr, and they've said that they're alright with me continuing to live there while I pursue plan B. Back when I had doubts about committing to pharmacy school in light of the job market reports back in 2016, my family members were extremely adamant about why it would be a good decision for me and how I need to just go for it, so I think they kind of feel a little guilty in a way.

 

[steveysmith54]

Unfortunately, I'm in my early 30s, so pursuing an alternative career that takes as long to eventually begin as does the physician profession is not really feasible for me at this point (otherwise, I'd agree with you).

That's why I'm seriously looking into whether a 4-month CS bootcamp could be a viable avenue for starting a software developer career.

The silver lining of my situation (if you can call it that) is that I'm not married and don't have any kids, so at least nobody else is suffering because of my ill-fated decision to go to pharmacy school. I also moved back in with my family shortly after the start of my P4 yr, and they've said that they're alright with me continuing to live there while I pursue plan B. Back when I had doubts about committing to pharmacy school in light of the job market reports back in 2016, my family members were extremely adamant about why it would be a good decision for me and how I need to just go for it, so I think they kind of feel a little guilty in a way.

Don't know much about CS bootcaps.
If I were you, I'd get licensed, look for contract jobs- I have heard of a a guy who took a prison contract job in the middle of nowhere, which turned into a official state job in 2 years(same facility), then he was able to transfer to a prison facility closer to his home later on. Basically created this situation for himself, 4 year journey closer to home. Now, he is pretty set as a state worker with nice pension plan.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Don't know much about CS bootcaps.
If I were you, I'd get licensed, look for contract jobs- I have heard of a a guy who took a prison contract job in the middle of nowhere, which turned into a official state job in 2 years(same facility), then he was able to transfer to a prison facility closer to his home later on. Basically created this situation for himself, 4 year journey closer to home. Now, he is pretty set as a state worker with nice pension plan.

Do you know how long ago this was? I actually got in touch with a contracting agency that places pharmacists in short-term contracting positions at federal prison sites. At the time, they had an opening for a contract assignment at a prison in Indiana. They told me that they used to have no issues with hiring new grads for these positions, but for the last couple of years they've started requiring 1-2 yrs of pharmacist work experience, so that's why I asked. I'm not sure if all companies that contract with prisons have started mandating an experience requirement, though.

BTW, do you know how much your friend started out at when he got the permanent prison pharmacist position? The reason I ask is because the postings I saw back in the fall were only offering around $65k to start (as compared to ~$88k+ for most other federal pharmacist positions), so I'm just curious. I get that nobody (and especially not a new grad) can afford to be picky in this job market, but $65k is really low, even in consideration of the benefits that go along with having a federal position. Guess it just depends on how badly someone wants to work as a pharmacist.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Do you know how long ago this was? I actually got in touch with a contracting agency that places pharmacists in short-term contracting positions at federal prison sites. At the time, they had an opening for a contract assignment at a prison in Indiana. They told me that they used to have no issues with hiring new grads for these positions, but for the last couple of years they've started requiring 1-2 yrs of pharmacist work experience, so that's why I asked. I'm not sure if all companies that contract with prisons have started mandating an experience requirement, though.

BTW, do you know how much your friend started out at when he got the permanent prison pharmacist position? The reason I ask is because the postings I saw back in the fall were only offering around $65k to start (as compared to ~$88k+ for most other federal pharmacist positions), so I'm just curious. I get that nobody (and especially not a new grad) can afford to be picky in this job market, but $65k is really low, even in consideration of the benefits that go along with having a federal position. Guess it just depends on how badly someone wants to work as a pharmacist.

A few years ago I have been contacted by recruiters and received offers for prison contract jobs in the middle of nowhere. They paid well below what I was getting in a SATURATED area.

It has been radio silence since then.

I would just go to that coding bootcamp or get that CS degree.

 

[deleted562805]

Do you know how long ago this was? I actually got in touch with a contracting agency that places pharmacists in short-term contracting positions at federal prison sites. At the time, they had an opening for a contract assignment at a prison in Indiana. They told me that they used to have no issues with hiring new grads for these positions, but for the last couple of years they've started requiring 1-2 yrs of pharmacist work experience, so that's why I asked. I'm not sure if all companies that contract with prisons have started mandating an experience requirement, though.

BTW, do you know how much your friend started out at when he got the permanent prison pharmacist position? The reason I ask is because the postings I saw back in the fall were only offering around $65k to start (as compared to ~$88k+ for most other federal pharmacist positions), so I'm just curious. I get that nobody (and especially not a new grad) can afford to be picky in this job market, but $65k is really low, even in consideration of the benefits that go along with having a federal position. Guess it just depends on how badly someone wants to work as a pharmacist.

I would just go with CS degree or boot camp at this point. I am not sure why you want to still latch on to pharmacy at this point. Your folks are okay with you doing CS.

 

[steveysmith54]

Do you know how long ago this was? I actually got in touch with a contracting agency that places pharmacists in short-term contracting positions at federal prison sites. At the time, they had an opening for a contract assignment at a prison in Indiana. They told me that they used to have no issues with hiring new grads for these positions, but for the last couple of years they've started requiring 1-2 yrs of pharmacist work experience, so that's why I asked. I'm not sure if all companies that contract with prisons have started mandating an experience requirement, though.

BTW, do you know how much your friend started out at when he got the permanent prison pharmacist position? The reason I ask is because the postings I saw back in the fall were only offering around $65k to start (as compared to ~$88k+ for most other federal pharmacist positions), so I'm just curious. I get that nobody (and especially not a new grad) can afford to be picky in this job market, but $65k is really low, even in consideration of the benefits that go along with having a federal position. Guess it just depends on how badly someone wants to work as a pharmacist.

This was 4-6 years ago, STATE prison, not federal. 6 month contract, which got renewed. The pay was top dollar, relatively speaking-70 dollars per hour in CA.

 

[Hedgehog32]

A few years ago I have been contacted by recruiters and received offers for prison contract jobs in the middle of nowhere. They paid well below what I was getting in a SATURATED area.

It has been radio silence since then.

I would just go to that coding bootcamp or get that CS degree.

That may be the most feasible thing for me to do at this point. I guess I had just figured it was worth investigating every potential opportunity that might enable me to make use of the pharmacy degree. At least I'd be able to say to people who'd be giving me a hard time for not getting a pharmacist job that I researched every possible avenue for finding a job and came up empty on all of them (except for maybe rural BFE chain retail).

At this point, I have gotten in touch with national hospital networks as well as dozens of rural hospitals, LTC facilities, federal facilities (which led to the job offer that was later retracted), and even retail pharmacy chain DMs in my area (which are no longer considering new graduates who didn't at least work as retail interns). As I said above, it appears that my only hope of starting a career as a pharmacist is to pursue chain retail pharmacist opportunities in extremely rural areas, and I really do think I'd honestly rather just go back to school/bootcamp to train for another career altogether than go down that road.

The only thing that sucks about going back to school is that I was really hoping to finally start earning a decent "adult" income, especially at my age. Guess it's just going to take even longer (or potentially just a bit longer, as in the case of doing a bootcamp).

Just a random question for you, but if you were in my situation - new graduate with hospital intern work experience but no retail experience, didn't match with any residency programs, has made exhaustive attempts to find a job - what would you do? Would you force yourself to pursue retail chain pharmacy opportunities in BFE, or would you be inclined to just write off pharmacy school as a loss and pursue something with much better job prospects like CS?

 

[Hedgehog32]

This was 4-6 years ago, STATE prison, not federal. 6 month contract, which got renewed. The pay was top dollar, relatively speaking-70 dollars per hour in CA.

Do you remember the name of the contracting agency? Guess it wouldn't hurt to get in touch with them, just in the off chance that they'd be willing to place a new graduate in a position.

BTW, I got in touch with the owners of two of the most well-known pharmacy temp/contracting agencies and was told by one of them that he only specializes in placing DOP/executive-level candidates in positions these days, just because he said it had gotten to the point a couple yrs ago that hospitals realized they could put an ad for a staff pharmacist up on Indeed.com, receive 50 or more applications by the end of the day, and simply handle the hiring process on their own. The owner of the other company said that he might be able to get a new grad scheduled for PRN shifts at certain independent pharmacies (depends on owner), but that pretty much all the hospitals they contract with now will only work with candidates that have at least 2 yrs of experience. Oh well, at least I tried.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I would just go with CS degree or boot camp at this point. I am not sure why you want to still latch on to pharmacy at this point. Your folks are okay with you doing CS.

It's basically like I said to PharmtoCS above - after spending so much time and money earning the pharmacy degree, I just hate to totally let it go waste. So I'd therefore like to be able to say that I evaluated every single possible job lead before I officially move on to something else.

Of course, I might not have much of a choice soon, as the CS programs I applied to begin in early and mid-August. One of them starts classes on August 12th, so if I don't have something in pharmacy lined up by that point, I'll need to decide if I want to keep trying to find a pharmacist job and miss out on the opportunity to attend the CS program (only matriculates students once per year), or attend the CS program and accept the reality that everything I put into pursuing pharmacy will have been a total and complete waste.

 

[deleted562805]

It's basically like I said to PharmtoCS above - after spending so much time and money earning the pharmacy degree, I just hate to totally let it go waste. So I'd therefore like to be able to say that I evaluated every single possible job lead before I officially move on to something else.

Of course, I might not have much of a choice soon, as the CS programs I applied to begin in early and mid-August. One of them starts classes on August 12th, so if I don't have something in pharmacy lined up by that point, I'll need to decide if I want to keep trying to find a pharmacist job and miss out on the opportunity to attend the CS program (only matriculates students once per year), or attend the CS program and accept the reality that everything I put into pursuing pharmacy will have been a total and complete waste.

I agree. You did mention that the lowest of the low end CVS and Walgreens take only interns. Just curious, Is that true for only staff positions or even floater positions? I know if i cannot get the bottom of barrel jobs, I will cut my losses with pharmacy. By bottom of the barrel, I mean floating at a retail store in my current state of licensure.

Have you tried applying for floater retail positions near your place?

 

[Hedgehog32]

I agree. You did mention that the lowest of the low end CVS and Walgreens take only interns. Just curious, Is that true for only staff positions or even floater positions? I know if i cannot get the bottom of barrel jobs, I will cut my losses with pharmacy. By bottom of the barrel, I mean floating at a retail store in my current state of licensure.

Have you tried applying for floater retail positions near your place?

I haven't applied for any floater positions yet for two reasons - I'm not licensed, and there also haven't been any positions posted to apply for in the first place. I was also trying to exhaust all possible avenues for landing an inpatient job somewhere.

To answer your other question regarding whether applicants for both staff and floater pharmacist positions have to have either previous retail pharmacist or intern experience, I'm not sure. I originally learned of the requirement when I was put in touch with the DM of one of the big chains (I.e., CVS/Walgreens) by a relative of the DM who happened to work at one of the facilities I worked as an intern at.

At the time (this was during summer of 2019), the DM talked about how lots of c/o 2018 graduates were still unemployed. She offered me a PRN intern job with the company and said that it would be my only hope of getting a pharmacist job with the company upon graduation (although she didn't specify whether it would be a floater or staff position) since they were only hiring either their own interns or experienced retail pharmacists at that point. She basically said, "You better take it if you want to have a shot at getting a job when you graduate!" Since I had zero interest in working retail, however, I turned down the offer. I haven't been in touch with the DM since then so I have no idea if the company is still enforcing that criteria.

 

[deleted562805]

I haven't applied for any floater positions yet for two reasons - I'm not licensed, and there also haven't been any positions posted to apply for in the first place. I was also trying to exhaust all possible avenues for landing an inpatient job somewhere.

To answer your other question regarding whether applicants for both staff and floater pharmacist positions have to have either previous retail pharmacist or intern experience, I'm not sure. I originally learned of the requirement when I was put in touch with the DM of one of the big chains (I.e., CVS/Walgreens) by a relative of the DM who happened to work at one of the facilities I worked as an intern at.

At the time (this was during summer of 2019), the DM talked about how lots of c/o 2018 graduates were still unemployed. She offered me a PRN intern job with the company and said that it would be my only hope of getting a pharmacist job with the company upon graduation (although she didn't specify whether it would be a floater or staff position) since they were only hiring either their own interns or experienced retail pharmacists at that point. She basically said, "You better take it if you want to have a shot at getting a job when you graduate!" Since I had zero interest in working retail, however, I turned down the offer. I haven't been in touch with the DM since then so I have no idea if the company is still enforcing that criteria.

Thanks, Hedgehog32. This is helpful. I think at this point it is safe to say that inpatient hospital jobs need that residency.

I think floating jobs are probably the only choice now, but if floating positions only take interns, then I will have to cut my losses.