Cheating at Pharmacy Schools

[Pharmaco]

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by futureRXdealer
Ha ha ha. I am glad I am not the only one who recognizes these people (although its hard not to). The drug info situation really shows that some people in our class have an inability to think. The faculty are not the only ones who think bad of us, the P2 and P3 students don't think too highly of our class either. Go figure.

You would be right about that. Your classes doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation. Getting caught cheating in DI was just dumb. If your going to cheat (Im not saying that you should), at least do it on something worth while. Although there are rumors that there are still people who cheat on other things on a regular basis.
__________________
UCHSC C/O 2010



After reading this post on another thread, I wondered if there are other pharmacy schools with cheating problems. I know there are classmates of mine who are opportunistic cheaters meaning they will cheat if they are not being watched such as on take home assignments and by plagiarizing student papers. I have not noticed anyone cheating on exams probably because I am too busy taking my own exam.

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[WVUPharm2007]

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by futureRXdealer
Ha ha ha. I am glad I am not the only one who recognizes these people (although its hard not to). The drug info situation really shows that some people in our class have an inability to think. The faculty are not the only ones who think bad of us, the P2 and P3 students don't think too highly of our class either. Go figure.

You would be right about that. Your classes doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation. Getting caught cheating in DI was just dumb. If your going to cheat (Im not saying that you should), at least do it on something worth while. Although there are rumors that there are still people who cheat on other things on a regular basis.
__________________
UCHSC C/O 2010



After reading this post on another thread, I wondered if there are other pharmacy schools with cheating problems. I know there are classmates of mine who are opportunistic cheaters meaning they will cheat if they are not being watched such as on take home assignments and by plagiarizing student papers. I have not noticed anyone cheating on exams probably because I am too busy taking my own exam.

People cheat all the time....and if they are going to get kicked out of school, they simply need to hire lawyers and it's as if nothing happened. At least that's how it is at WVU.

I know of several cheaters/plagiarists that graduated in 2007. Typing **** into calculators is an interesting method. Reusing journal articles from your elders' journal clubs is, too.

Personally, I never cheated....never cared enough to put forth the effort needed to cheat. And do understand - effective cheating methods take ample amounts of thought and effort to pull off convincingly. Interesting how that works...

 

[tussionex]

i agree with WVU...it takes too much work to cheat well and not get caught.

for me, it was just easier to learn the material


oh, and ACP had an "honor code"

 

[Lurkerkat]

That cheating situation with my class was a whole other level of stupid. It was about twenty people, all surrounding a single computer in the library in plain view of everyone cheating on an open book online quiz for a class that counted for only 1 credit hour and was near impossible to fail. As a result the entire class was punished since no one came forward and no one filed an official complaint to the ethics committee.

It's just easier to go to class and study, rather than come up with some way to cheat and possible finding myself sobbing hysterically in front of the ethics committee begging them not to boot me out of school because that would mean absolute financial annihilation. Not to mention I have this sneaking suspicion all this material will come back to haunt me when I take NAPLEX so it's probably smart to learn it now.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Not to mention I have this sneaking suspicion all this material will come back to haunt me when I take NAPLEX so it's probably smart to learn it now.

Nah, you'll forget it by then....

 

[PharmDstudent]

It's just the overachievers' pitfall. You can't win every game, you know? Someone has to be at the bottom and someone has to be at the top.

 

[drugdoc]

People cheat all the time....and if they are going to get kicked out of school, they simply need to hire lawyers and it's as if nothing happened. At least that's how it is at WVU.

I know of several cheaters/plagiarists that graduated in 2007. Typing **** into calculators is an interesting method. Reusing journal articles from your elders' journal clubs is, too.

Personally, I never cheated....never cared enough to put forth the effort needed to cheat. And do understand - effective cheating methods take ample amounts of thought and effort to pull off convincingly. Interesting how that works...

How do you know how much thought and effort it takes to create a convincing, effective cheating method, unless you've done it?

 

[firefighter9015]

Someone in my school was cheating (we have pretty decent ideas who, and they are only in one class) so for exams the school developed a lovely seating chart, that makes everyone else suffer. People who need left-handed desk can't always get them and people who don't want left-handed desk gets stuck with them.

We have a honor code, however, my class' rep. for it said that they have not meet the entire time he has been on it.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

How do you know how much thought and effort it takes to create a convincing, effective cheating method, unless you've done it?

Huh....good point....

 

[futureRXdealer]

How do you know how much thought and effort it takes to create a convincing, effective cheating method, unless you've done it?

When I was in high school, someone actually explained the different methods he used to cheat. I will admit, some were very creative. He had a morse code type system for multiple choice, he would arrive to class early when the teacher went to the bathroom between classes and actually take the answer key from her desk write down the answers and put it back (You have to have a big set to do that), or he would tape a cheat sheet to the back of the chair in front of him. In classes where you were allowed to listen to CD players, he would record himself reading his notes, burn it on to a cd, and play it while he was taking the test. He also added songs to the cd just in case the teacher would ask.

I have not heard of any other type of cheating incident, but I assume if people in my class were dumb enough to cheat on a stupid open book online quiz, they are dumb enough to cheat on other things.

 

[Farmercyst]

Someone in my school was cheating (we have pretty decent ideas who, and they are only in one class) so for exams the school developed a lovely seating chart, that makes everyone else suffer. People who need left-handed desk can't always get them and people who don't want left-handed desk gets stuck with them.

We have a honor code, however, my class' rep. for it said that they have not meet the entire time he has been on it.

We (honor council) haven't met yet this year at USC. When we were originally told about the honor council, we were told they met once/calendar qtr. I emailed after the first qtr and was told it was more a recommendation, but didn't have to be adhered to strictly. Now it's going on 9 months. My guess is it's a token position that is pretty much worthless.

 

[loo]

"Pharmacists are the most trusted professionals". "I trust a pharmacist over my own doctor" etc.

It's a shame that cheating and cheaters are mentioned without anybody getting mad about it. It's like we have this attitude like, "oh well, cheating happens".

What does that say about us as ethical humans? What does that say about about our society in general?

Frankly, it frightens me.

I'll put my neck out there and say that cheating is wrong and all perpetrators should be turned in. If you cheat once, you'll probably do it again. You might even encourage others to cheat to gain a competitive advantage. All this does is devalue the education we receive.

This is one issue that is completely black and white to me. There is absolutely no credible excuse for cheating.

Sorry. Off my soapbox now.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

We used to be the most trusted, now nurses and teachers overtook us. It's because of those *******s at Colorado. Ya deadbeats!!!

I've cheated at boardgames many a time, however. I'm not allowed to be the Monopoly banker in about a dozen different Parkersburg, WV housholds, a few in Morgantown, and a few in Philly. I'm told I'm banned from the game in Japan. I say to hell with that. I play the Enron edition of Monopoly. It's money I WILL make...I'm just preemptively adding it to my margin. You got to be Machiavellian in that ****...you gots to hide what properties you own...when you buy a railroad, stick it in your jacket. It makes buying the other ones off the other players easier if they don't know you own 2 others...they didn't say that's illegal on the box...

 

[loo]

We used to be the most trusted, now nurses and teachers overtook us. It's because of those *******s at Colorado. Ya deadbeats!!!

I've cheated at boardgames many a time, however. I'm not allowed to be the Monopoly banker in about a dozen different Parkersburg, WV housholds, a few in Morgantown, and a few in Philly. I'm told I'm banned from the game in Japan. I say to hell with that. I play the Enron edition of Monopoly. It's money I WILL make...I'm just preemptively adding it to my margin. You got to be Machiavellian in that ****...you gots to hide what properties you own...when you buy a railroad, stick it in your jacket. It makes buying the other ones off the other players easier if they don't know you own 2 others...they didn't say that's illegal on the box...

You bastard. I KNEW you were personally responsible for the decline of civilization as we know it.

BASTARD!

 

[steve giordano]

Huh....good point....

actually, could i be myself and get to the point, i.e. just be blunt? actually, it is not a good point. nothing new here, with this cheating. i graduated in 1972, pitt, and, hell, there was rampant cheating there. so, been going on forever, always will.
i was very aware of the efforts, chicanery, complicated methods used, as i heard them explain it in braggadochio fashion, of course. i never participated, and, it was pretty much de rigueur to join one particular fraternity, with help in cheating as one of the main benefits.
i actually can understand , in rare instances, cheating to overcome irrational, unusual, inhuman demands, but these are rare instances, whether is is a 'boot camp' scenario, or school. i myself am fortunate , for want of better way to explain it, as i never had to . does not make me a saint, or any better, as i believe at this stage of life, that we can all do anything under the right circumstances.
the question here though is, under what circumstances is this condoned to the degree, pervasiveness, that it exists?
i really think that the schools are in part, responsible for this in different ways, from the pressure exerted, the way the pressures are exerted, and, in the ways in which accountability is structured.
simplistic retort, but, i had to respond to what i remembered so well from years ago, the degree and nonchalance of cheating, and, the ease with which it happened.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

actually, could i be myself and get to the point, i.e. just be blunt? actually, it is not a good point. nothing new here, with this cheating. i graduated in 1972, pitt, and, hell, there was rampant cheating there. so, been going on forever, always will.
i was very aware of the efforts, chicanery, complicated methods used, as i heard them explain it in braggadochio fashion, of course. i never participated, and, it was pretty much de rigueur to join one particular fraternity, with help in cheating as one of the main benefits.
i actually can understand , in rare instances, cheating to overcome irrational, unusual, inhuman demands, but these are rare instances, whether is is a 'boot camp' scenario, or school. i myself am fortunate , for want of better way to explain it, as i never had to . does not make me a saint, or any better, as i believe at this stage of life, that we can all do anything under the right circumstances.
the question here though is, under what circumstances is this condoned to the degree, pervasiveness, that it exists?
i really think that the schools are in part, responsible for this in different ways, from the pressure exerted, the way the pressures are exerted, and, in the ways in which accountability is structured.
simplistic retort, but, i had to respond to what i remembered so well from years ago, the degree and nonchalance of cheating, and, the ease with which it happened.

Well, I expect nothing less from Pitt grads....I mean, c'mon. It's that small vocational school up I-79.

 

[Old Timer]

Cheating goes on everywhere. My daughter is a senior in High School and she wanted to resign from the National Honor Society because the top student in the class is a cheater.

We have lost our way, morally, as a society. That's a discussion we can have if you want to, but nobody will like my view of why this is happening more than ever.

You just have to be moral, and don't cheat. Who cares what others do. You won't get paid less because your earned grades may be lower than the cheaters grades. They are paying a fortune to get an education and their cheating. That's pretty amazing.....

 

[loo]

actually, could i be myself and get to the point, i.e. just be blunt? actually, it is not a good point. nothing new here, with this cheating. i graduated in 1972, pitt, and, hell, there was rampant cheating there. so, been going on forever, always will.
i was very aware of the efforts, chicanery, complicated methods used, as i heard them explain it in braggadochio fashion, of course. i never participated, and, it was pretty much de rigueur to join one particular fraternity, with help in cheating as one of the main benefits.
i actually can understand , in rare instances, cheating to overcome irrational, unusual, inhuman demands, but these are rare instances, whether is is a 'boot camp' scenario, or school. i myself am fortunate , for want of better way to explain it, as i never had to . does not make me a saint, or any better, as i believe at this stage of life, that we can all do anything under the right circumstances.
the question here though is, under what circumstances is this condoned to the degree, pervasiveness, that it exists?
i really think that the schools are in part, responsible for this in different ways, from the pressure exerted, the way the pressures are exerted, and, in the ways in which accountability is structured.
simplistic retort, but, i had to respond to what i remembered so well from years ago, the degree and nonchalance of cheating, and, the ease with which it happened.

Wow. Excellent point. Do professors/administrators know and what is their role in condoning cheating? Why aren't we (as students and practitioners) doing something about it?

Does it bother anybody?

 

[loo]

Cheating goes on everywhere. My daughter is a senior in High School and she wanted to resign from the National Honor Society because the top student in the class is a cheater.

We have lost our way, morally, as a society. That's a discussion we can have if you want to, but nobody will like my view of why this is happening more than ever.

You just have to be moral, and don't cheat. Who cares what others do. You won't get paid less because your earned grades may be lower than the cheaters grades. They are paying a fortune to get an education and their cheating. That's pretty amazing.....

I'd be very interested to hear your view. Please feel free to sound off.

 

[loo]

Well, I expect nothing less from Pitt grads....I mean, c'mon. It's that small vocational school up I-79.

Uh-oh. I smell blood.

Doesn't WVU have an endowed Hillbilly Heroin Scholarship?

 

[Pharmavixen]

If cheating becomes completely rampant, then professors' expectations will become skewed to the point where honest students will have a harder time succeeding.

Maybe it would even get to the point where honest students can't succeed (unless they're geniuses).

I haven't seen much in this thread on how you would define cheating. In my last year, a group of students got together and came up with group notes. (In my day, back when the mountains were cooling, we didn't have laptops and took notes at lectures on clipboards with loose-leaf paper.) How it worked: each person in the group took turns going to lectures so that the others could go to the library and put in more time studying. Whoever agreed to go to the lecture would bring the notes to the library later, and they'd all pool funds for photocopying the notes for everybody.

Now that it's so much easier to share notes electronically, would you consider it a mild form of cheating, considering that you're not attending the lecture yourself and using the time to get in extra studying, thereby getting a jump on the people who do go?

BTW, my sister-in-law is a professor of anthropology, and she catches students cheating all the time. They crib stuff off the internet and think she wouldn't notice, when even without Google Scholar, she's spent ten years after her undergraduate degree studying the subject, reading books and writing papers (what with having a PhD in the subject, and all), and basically can spot plagiarism ten miles away through a dense fog. Students who cheat in this way are too dumb for college, IMO.

 

[confettiflyer]

I haven't seen much in this thread on how you would define cheating. In my last year, a group of students got together and came up with group notes. (In my day, back when the mountains were cooling, we didn't have laptops and took notes at lectures on clipboards with loose-leaf paper.) How it worked: each person in the group took turns going to lectures so that the others could go to the library and put in more time studying. Whoever agreed to go to the lecture would bring the notes to the library later, and they'd all pool funds for photocopying the notes for everybody.

Now that it's so much easier to share notes electronically, would you consider it a mild form of cheating, considering that you're not attending the lecture yourself and using the time to get in extra studying, thereby getting a jump on the people who do go?

.

That's not cheating, that's borrowing notes and studying them. You're basically describing how recorded history was passed down, sortof.

But as for cheating....it happens, best not to get your panties in a bunch about it. If you see it, report it...if you're a professor, take steps to mitigate opportunities for cheating (ie random seating, don't reuse tests, guard answer key, hire a few extra proctors, make everyone hold up their exam when time is called).

Other than that...trying to stop cheating 100% is like trying to capture fog, or maybe a better example is...it's like trying to reduce medical error rates to 0%. It's never going to happen.

Just think to yourself that it'll catch up to them eventually somehow. Even though it probably won't, depending on the severity of the cheating.

 

[Fatpharm]

I don't think faculty want to deal with cheating. Recently, there was a quiz at my school where the professor called out a person for looking at anothers paper, but did nothing to confirm if the person was copying answers. Professors don't want to waste their time on cheaters because they will probably get off anyway and they don't want an inconvenience in their lives.

 

[PrePharm1980]

Do you consider viewing old exams as cheating?????


I think its a fine line. When I was in college, getting a bachelor's, there was a certain group of individuals that always had access to old exams, hw, and such, b/c their friends were upper classman. Sometimes our exams would be exact duplicates of the old exams, sometimes they would be very close. Some would say this is "networking" and in real life, you need to network.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Looking at old tests isn't cheating. At WVU and any other school with common sense, they change them annually. The old tests won't help you, anyway. If a school reuses tests and hands them out after they are taken, they are just asking for it.

 

[patmcd]

My school uses very similar tests year after year generally. But they don't ever hand them back and only allow supervised viewing of graded exams.

 

[pharmpilot]

Do you consider viewing old exams as cheating?????


I think its a fine line. When I was in college, getting a bachelor's, there was a certain group of individuals that always had access to old exams, hw, and such, b/c their friends were upper classman. Sometimes our exams would be exact duplicates of the old exams, sometimes they would be very close. Some would say this is "networking" and in real life, you need to network.

If the instructor makes old exams available or lets students take old exams out after the test, I wouldn't consider pooling your resources cheating. However, if an instructor doesn't want his old test out there and won't let you take them out of class, or out of the office, then anyone who gets an old test would be cheating. So, ultimately, I think the question is "how did you come by the old exam?"

I also take the black and white stance on cheating. And yeah, at times it sucks to do so.

 

[PharmDstudent]

My school uses very similar tests year after year generally. But they don't ever hand them back and only allow supervised viewing of graded exams.

That's cheating!

 

[pinkyrx]

If the instructor makes old exams available or lets students take old exams out after the test, I wouldn't consider pooling your resources cheating. However, if an instructor doesn't want his old test out there and won't let you take them out of class, or out of the office, then anyone who gets an old test would be cheating. So, ultimately, I think the question is "how did you come by the old exam?"

I agree!

At our school we were only allowed to view our exams in the professor's office (for the big classes like therapeutics/kinetics/pharmacology). It would have definitely been considered cheating if anyone had a copy of an old exam because the profs are super strict about making sure every copy is accounted for.

 

[Fatpharm]

We have a rule that teachers should not give back tests but some give out the answer keys anyway. With the teachers that give back the keys for students to use, I don't consider it cheating because it is a great study tool and you would be at a disadvantage for not using a resource given by the teacher. With those that don't give out answer keys, I do believe that it is cheating.