Caribbean to US MD

[Uncreative2]

From what I've read it is extremely difficult to transfer from a Caribbean Medical School to the US.

What I haven't been able to find is if it is possible to reapply as a first year. I know that this may be a waste of time and tuition, but if you are absolutely killing it in the Caribbean would a US MD program consider your application?

I'm a few years out of an ivy league undergrad with a 3.9 GPA and a solid resume, but can't seem to get that MCAT score anywhere near reasonable (currently 501). Just trying to figure out what my options are. Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[M&L]

From what I've read it is extremely difficult to transfer from a Caribbean Medical School to the US.

What I haven't been able to find is if it is possible to reapply as a first year. I know that this may be a waste of time and tuition, but if you are absolutely killing it in the Caribbean would a US MD program consider your application?

I'm a few years out of an ivy league undergrad with a 3.9 GPA and a solid resume, but can't seem to get that MCAT score anywhere near reasonable (currently 501). Just trying to figure out what my options are. Thanks!

The problem is that before you could stand out in Caribbean school by getting a crazy high step 1, but now with step 1 going pass fail it will no longer be a factor .

how many times did you take it ? What is score breakdown ?

 

[LunaOri]

Start by having a conversation with the admissions office at your state school.

 

[arjusmc]

Is MD all that important? Your MCAT would be more than fine for DO if you can't get it to move.

 

[Uncreative2]

The problem is that before you could stand out in Caribbean school by getting a crazy high step 1, but now with step 1 going pass fail it will no longer be a factor .

how many times did you take it ? What is score breakdown ?

Yeah I heard step 1 was going pass/fail. Probably a relief to many, but not super helpful to my situation.
Would there be no other way to prove mastery of the material? Good grades? Prof recs?

SEP2019-Sat without taking a score (but still counts against test limits)
JAN2020-125;127;125;124
and I'm scheduled for the end of the month, but my confidence in a better score comes and goes

Start by having a conversation with the admissions office at your state school.

Yeah, I'm not sure how much that will help me. From CA so they are fairly competitive in state or not, but at least there are multiple options.

Is MD all that important? Your MCAT would be more than fine for DO if you can't get it to move.

No it isn't...or at least it shouldn't be. My family has a lot of MDs including my father and grandfather and it isn't that they would give me a hard time about it, but it would rub me the wrong way. It is totally unjustified baggage that I should just get over, but a possible lifelong chip on my shoulder over having the wrong letters after my name is less than appealing.


Oh and Thanks for the responses!! I didn't know I'd get replies so soon.

 

[M&L]

Yeah I heard step 1 was going pass/fail. Probably a relief to many, but not super helpful to my situation.
Would there be no other way to prove mastery of the material? Good grades? Prof recs?

SEP2019-Sat without taking a score (but still counts against test limits)
JAN2020-125;127;125;124
and I'm scheduled for the end of the month, but my confidence in a better score comes and goes



Yeah, I'm not sure how much that will help me. From CA so they are fairly competitive in state or not, but at least there are multiple options.



No it isn't...or at least it shouldn't be. My family has a lot of MDs including my father and grandfather and it isn't that they would give me a hard time about it, but it would rub me the wrong way. It is totally unjustified baggage that I should just get over, but a possible lifelong chip on my shoulder over having the wrong letters after my name is less than appealing.


Oh and Thanks for the responses!! I didn't know I'd get replies so soon.

well, first of all, it is way too early to say that you failed MCAT, - you should definitely push and try again. What are your study methods? if you want, PM me. I took it four times, and my first 3 scores were very low, but fourth was good. I ended up getting 4 acceptances (all US MD schools). And your GPA is way better than mine!! So you DEFINITELY have a chance.

How many times did you take practice test? What scores did you get on those?
How did you feel during the test? did you run out of time? Did you feel like you didnt know the material at all?
Did you take all the classes? Biochem? Do you feel like there are gaps in your knowledge?

RIGHT NOW: because you have a test coming up, the most efficient thing you can do is binge watch Khan academy MCAT prep collection. I watched every video 2-3 times. I truly believe that this is one of the fastest and best ways to review things and fill in the gaps if you are short on time.


Right now, especially with step being pass fail, you can have a way way better career with DO degree vs Caribbean. I did rotations in ICU, and i saw DO fellows in critical care, which is a very competitive IM specialty that is really hard to get. So, honestly, even if prestige is your focus (which i dont blame you, it is really hard when you have generations of doctors in your family, too much pressure), getting into a great DO school is way more prestigious than Caribbean. You will have great connections, a lot more clinical experience, an the overall quality of your education will be great.

 

[Med Ed]

What I haven't been able to find is if it is possible to reapply as a first year. I know that this may be a waste of time and tuition, but if you are absolutely killing it in the Caribbean would a US MD program consider your application?

No. The decision to go Caribbean in the first place would be considered evidence of poor decision making, and the application would be deposited in the circular file.

 

[KnightDoc]

From what I've read it is extremely difficult to transfer from a Caribbean Medical School to the US.

What I haven't been able to find is if it is possible to reapply as a first year. I know that this may be a waste of time and tuition, but if you are absolutely killing it in the Caribbean would a US MD program consider your application?

I'm a few years out of an ivy league undergrad with a 3.9 GPA and a solid resume, but can't seem to get that MCAT score anywhere near reasonable (currently 501). Just trying to figure out what my options are. Thanks!

The problem is that med schools just don't accept transfers, except under the most extraordinary of circumstances, from anywhere, not just the Caribbean. To my knowledge, the same goes for accepting applications as a M1 from anyone who has ever attended med school anywhere.

I might be wrong about this, since it doesn't apply to me . If I'm right, it's not a Caribbean thing, so killing it in the Caribbean isn't relevant. You also couldn't transfer from Harvard to Podunk State, or apply as a first year after spending any time anywhere, including Harvard. Hopefully someone can either validate or correct this.

 

[M&L]

The problem is that med schools just don't accept transfers, except under the most extraordinary of circumstances, from anywhere, not just the Caribbean. To my knowledge, the same goes for accepting applications as a M1 from anyone who has ever attended med school anywhere.

I might be wrong about this, since it doesn't apply to me . If I'm right, it's not a Caribbean thing, so killing it in the Caribbean isn't relevant. You also couldn't transfer from Harvard to Podunk State, or apply as a first year after spending any time anywhere, including Harvard. Hopefully someone can either validate or correct this.

i heard the same. I was exploring possibility of transferring later when i was choosing a medical school and thats the same impression i got. Exceptions would be things like being a millitary spouse and moving to your home town, or something like that. But it is hard to do and rare. And usually when they were looking at transfers, they looked at your step score. So, now that step is going pass/fail, i am speculating that it would make it even harder to transfer. Someone correct me if i am wrong.

 

[LunaOri]

No. The decision to go Caribbean in the first place would be considered evidence of poor decision making, and the application would be deposited in the circular file.

That's harsh, and I'm not sure it's true! Are you on an AdCom?

 

[Goro]

Yeah I heard step 1 was going pass/fail. Probably a relief to many, but not super helpful to my situation.
Would there be no other way to prove mastery of the material? Good grades? Prof recs?

SEP2019-Sat without taking a score (but still counts against test limits)
JAN2020-125;127;125;124
and I'm scheduled for the end of the month, but my confidence in a better score comes and goes



Yeah, I'm not sure how much that will help me. From CA so they are fairly competitive in state or not, but at least there are multiple options.



No it isn't...or at least it shouldn't be. My family has a lot of MDs including my father and grandfather and it isn't that they would give me a hard time about it, but it would rub me the wrong way. It is totally unjustified baggage that I should just get over, but a possible lifelong chip on my shoulder over having the wrong letters after my name is less than appealing.

You already have one red flag simply by going to the Carib.

I was going to trot out my 'Beggars can't be choosy" line, but with your attitude I don't want you as one of my students. Clearly, the initials are more important to you than being a doctor.

 

[Scrizzy]

Go DO if you feel you can't get a higher MCAT. Please don't go Caribbean, I don't even consider it as a viable option.

 

[Faha]

If your MCAT is 501 with a GPA of 3.9 you could receive interviews for at least 15 DO schools that I know of.

 

[Goro]

That's harsh, and I'm not sure it's true! Are you on an AdCom?

IIRC, Med Ed is now an Admissions Dean.

Shall we get some more Adcom opinions????

@Catalystic
@gyngyn
@Pathdocmd
@Maimonides
@Angus Avagadro
@lord999
@Mr.Smile12
@Doctor-S
@LizzyM
@Moko

 

[M&L]

IIRC, Med Ed is now an Admissions Dean.

Shall we get some more Adcom opinions????

@Catalystic
@gyngyn
@Pathdocmd
@Maimonides
@Angus Avagadro
@lord999
@Mr.Smile12
@Doctor-S
@LizzyM
@Moko

awkward. hahahaha.

 

[arjusmc]

Yeah I heard step 1 was going pass/fail. Probably a relief to many, but not super helpful to my situation.
Would there be no other way to prove mastery of the material? Good grades? Prof recs?

SEP2019-Sat without taking a score (but still counts against test limits)
JAN2020-125;127;125;124
and I'm scheduled for the end of the month, but my confidence in a better score comes and goes



Yeah, I'm not sure how much that will help me. From CA so they are fairly competitive in state or not, but at least there are multiple options.



No it isn't...or at least it shouldn't be. My family has a lot of MDs including my father and grandfather and it isn't that they would give me a hard time about it, but it would rub me the wrong way. It is totally unjustified baggage that I should just get over, but a possible lifelong chip on my shoulder over having the wrong letters after my name is less than appealing.


Oh and Thanks for the responses!! I didn't know I'd get replies so soon.

I personally do better with a chip on my shoulder to be honest. Its not the reason I chose DO. I looked at schools that I felt I could be successful at and applied both, was waitlisted MD, accepted DO. I will be a physician. This is the MD board, and everyone has to decide what they want for themselves. I'd imagine if you are worried of stigma, Carib will be worse. I'm no expert though.

 

[gyngyn]

I know that this may be a waste of time and tuition, but if you are absolutely killing it in the Caribbean would a US MD program consider your application?

Not mine.

 

[LunaOri]

IIRC, Med Ed is now an Admissions Dean.

Shall we get some more Adcom opinions????

@Catalystic
@gyngyn
@Pathdocmd
@Maimonides
@Angus Avagadro
@lord999
@Mr.Smile12
@Doctor-S
@LizzyM
@Moko

Yes, please. I would like to know if this attitude is universal, or if Med Ed is just a meanie!

 

[Tenk]

Your gpa is good so you probably are decently smart. I think your best option would to be to take some major test prep courses and retake the mcat.

 

[Goro]

Yes, please. I would like to know if this attitude is universal, or if Med Ed is just a meanie!

Not mean, just realistic.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You clearly have shown to be a good student by your Ivy acceptance. How long have you been out of undergrad? Have you taken an MCAT review course? I must say i find your honest and blunt attitude about not being able to handle being a DO refreshing. We definitely dont need any more self loathing DOs out there. With my compulsive personality, being a DO made me work a little harder to be better at my specialty, especially when I was university faculty. So it worked for me.I find it interesting that when faced with a setback, (low MCAT), you are ready to fold and look at the easy way out i.e., going to the Carribean. In reality, not an easy way at all. Medical school is hard except for the elite students. Some people dont do hard. Do you? How people respond to adversity is a window into their character. Grit is the most important trait a medical student can have IMO. Find an honest explanation of why you scored below your expectations. Didnt study enough? Too far out from school and not familiar with the material? Engage your undergrads ed resource center for thoughts. Get your act together and prepare properly for the MCAT. If you do this, i think you will be fine. Sorry if this sounded a little harsh, but from what you indicated in your OP, the only thing holding you back is you. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Uncreative2]

This was largely a stress induced post born of passing pessimism, but I think the question was unique enough that I wouldn't have had an answer without y'all's input.

I got a lot of really helpful answers/comments/advice and I really appreciate all the help. As much as I would like to respond to everyone individually, it probably wouldn't be a terribly efficient use of my limited time before my next MCAT sitting =)
Thanks to all you kind internet strangers! Especially @M&L @Angus Avagadro @KnightDoc

For future SDN lurkers the answer to "Can you reapply to MS1 in USA after starting in the Caribbean (or anywhere else)?" seems to be a resounding NO.

I feel like I've I gotten what I needed from this thread
Anyway my key takeaways here are...
-Keep studying for next MCAT (I was/am but thanks for the encouragement all the same)
-DO > Caribbean MD
-(it being my first post) SDN in general is pretty solid group that is quick to respond with the info you need




I probably shouldn't say this next bit and generally I wouldn't, but I would be remiss if I didn't respond to what I think is a pervasively negative aspect of SDN.

You already have one red flag simply by going to the Carib.

I was going to trot out my 'Beggars can't be choosy" line, but with your attitude I don't want you as one of my students. Clearly, the initials are more important to you than being a doctor.

People have bad days, tone can be lost in text, and I'm sure you give a lot of great advice on here most of the time...
FYI a simple "No" would have sufficed your answer offered only vitriol. You seem to be highly credentialed on the platform, so I assume you are a knowledgeable contributor, but it's your attitude that has lead me (until now) and I'm sure many others to avoid using this platform.

To be curt/blunt is one thing, but nobody needs you inaccurately guessing at intentions/values from your high horse. The fact that I have a marginal preference on MD vs DO does not mean I value the degree over the profession (in fact the positive contributions in this thread have warmed me significantly to pursuing DO). Answer the question or don't; this shouldn't be the venue to gate keep on unrelated BS.

Sorry for the vent, especially if I misunderstood or if this is extremely unrepresentative of your normal posts.
I found this little rant cathartic at least, so thanks for that. Maybe I'm just being a Summer

 

[jhmmd]

OP, haven't read through the whole thread, but one major thing you need to understand is that DO = MD. Period. Point blank. End of story. Goro may have been a little harsh, but that's the bottom line. If what you want is to become a doctor, and not just the money/prestige that comes from being a doctor, then you'll see that this makes sense.

Just my $.02.

 

[Goro]

This was largely a stress induced post born of passing pessimism, but I think the question was unique enough that I wouldn't have had an answer without y'all's input.

I got a lot of really helpful answers/comments/advice and I really appreciate all the help. As much as I would like to respond to everyone individually, it probably wouldn't be a terribly efficient use of my limited time before my next MCAT sitting =)
Thanks to all you kind internet strangers! Especially @M&L @Angus Avagadro @KnightDoc

For future SDN lurkers the answer to "Can you reapply to MS1 in USA after starting in the Caribbean (or anywhere else)?" seems to be a resounding NO.

I feel like I've I gotten what I needed from this thread
Anyway my key takeaways here are...
-Keep studying for next MCAT (I was/am but thanks for the encouragement all the same)
-DO > Caribbean MD
-(it being my first post) SDN in general is pretty solid group that is quick to respond with the info you need




I probably shouldn't say this next bit and generally I wouldn't, but I would be remiss if I didn't respond to what I think is a pervasively negative aspect of SDN.



People have bad days, tone can be lost in text, and I'm sure you give a lot of great advice on here most of the time...
FYI a simple "No" would have sufficed your answer offered only vitriol. You seem to be highly credentialed on the platform, so I assume you are a knowledgeable contributor, but it's your attitude that has lead me (until now) and I'm sure many others to avoid using this platform.

To be curt/blunt is one thing, but nobody needs you inaccurately guessing at intentions/values from your high horse. The fact that I have a marginal preference on MD vs DO does not mean I value the degree over the profession (in fact the positive contributions in this thread have warmed me significantly to pursuing DO). Answer the question or don't; this shouldn't be the venue to gate keep on unrelated BS.

Sorry for the vent, especially if I misunderstood or if this is extremely unrepresentative of your normal posts.
I found this little rant cathartic at least, so thanks for that. Maybe I'm just being a Summer

People come to SDN for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses.

 

[jarednogeek]

An American DO far surpasses a carib MD, and your chances of transferring are very low. Also carib MD carries far more stigma and negative connotation than American DO. If you want to be a doctor, kill the MCAT or go DO. If you're in it for the prestige choose a different profession.

 

[rx001]

OP, If you are already admitted into Carribean MD then there is column on the AMCAS application saying DId you previously matriculate to a MD school. You will need to say yes. Also you need to give an explanation of why you want to move to US MD school. just saying US MD > carribean MD may not be enought. From what I understand, You need show a stronger reason than that. Adcoms can respond on the previously matriculation question.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Seems like OP mixed up going to Caribbean with the possibility of transferring in medical school. I am not an adcom but my observation as a parent is if you have a poor MCAT score do not go to Caribbean because most likely you end up getting poor scores in USMLE. All those who went to Caribbean due to GPA issues seems to have done OK.

 

[gyngyn]

All those who went to Caribbean due to GPA issues seems to have done OK.

When people from the US with strong academics go to the Caribbean, it means they have much more serious problems.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

When people from the US with strong academics go to the Caribbean, it means they have much more serious problems.

I disagree based on what I seen around. I know few Kids messed up GPA in first year or two and have below 3.6 GPA needed for ORMs but have scored decently in MCAT. Instead of doing GPA repair (thru gap years, which lot of parents don't like due to variety of reasons) they chose to go to Caribbean. All the Caribbean graduates and (those who went to India) got into primary care residency programs. I am not advocating for Caribbean but I don't think it's as bad as portrayed here.

 

[Med Ed]

I disagree based on what I seen around. I know few Kids messed up GPA in first year or two and have below 3.6 GPA needed for ORMs but have scored decently in MCAT. Instead of doing GPA repair (thru gap years, which lot of parents don't like due to variety of reasons) they chose to go to Caribbean.

@gyngyn referred to people with strong academics. The people you are describing do not have strong academics.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

@gyngyn referred to people with strong academics. The people you are describing do not have strong academics.

I initially said " All those who went to Caribbean due to GPA issues seems to have done OK." to which @gyngyn talked about strong academics. Anyway, I am not trying to argue with faculty here.

 

[M&L]

I disagree based on what I seen around. I know few Kids messed up GPA in first year or two and have below 3.6 GPA needed for ORMs but have scored decently in MCAT. Instead of doing GPA repair (thru gap years, which lot of parents don't like due to variety of reasons) they chose to go to Caribbean. All the Caribbean graduates and (those who went to India) got into primary care residency programs. I am not advocating for Caribbean but I don't think it's as bad as portrayed here.

you are forgetting that whatever the situation WAS with caribbean schools, is about to change. With step being pass/fail there is essentially nothing you can do to stand out. Before you could go to caribs, hope that you would kill it on step 1, work your behind off, and get into a somewhat decent residency. Now - impossible. Now it is 1) step 2 (harder to stand out here, because the average is higher), 2) research (from what i understand caribbean schools are not too big on that, but correct me if i am wrong), 3) honor your rotations in good facilities, 4) have connections (often through your school - big name doctors teaching, etc).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

you are forgetting that whatever the situation WAS with caribbean schools, is about to change. With step being pass/fail there is essentially nothing you can do to stand out. Before you could go to caribs, hope that you would kill it on step 1, work your behind off, and get into a somewhat decent residency. Now - impossible. Now it is 1) step 2 (harder to stand out here, because the average is higher), 2) research (from what i understand caribbean schools are not too big on that, but correct me if i am wrong), 3) honor your rotations in good facilities, 4) have connections (often through your school - big name doctors teaching, etc).

Don't these Caribbean schools have partnerships with hospitals for clinical rotations? My understanding is lot of these also take Caribbean grads during match. Probably some sort tactical understanding between for profit Caribbean schools and hospitals with residencies. Again, I am not advocating for Carribean schools and I don't think my kid will have to go that route but If some chose that path carefully and worked hard they will be OK.

 

[emergencydancing]

You clearly have shown to be a good student by your Ivy acceptance.

I must admit that I sin in having this assumption as well for the most part. But OP's parent and grandparent are doctors. We can't dismiss the chance of privilege in undergrad acceptance, and cannot make this assumption.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I must admit that I sin in having this assumption as well for the most part. But OP's parent and grandparent are doctors. We can't dismiss the chance of privilege in undergrad acceptance, and cannot make this assumption.

His parents didnt buy him a 3.9 gpa at an Ivy. Your privelege narrative falls short.

 

[emergencydancing]

His parents didnt buy him a 3.9 gpa at an Ivy. Your privelege narrative falls short.

Just because its a 3.9 at an ivy without any other information does not mean they are impressive. Not all degrees are the same.

But also, the original comment was referring to the acceptance.

 

[M&L]

His parents didnt buy him a 3.9 gpa at an Ivy. Your privelege narrative falls short.

I mean , they might have gotten him in , but I agree , 3.9 is a lot of hard work . And honestly , if I am a doctor and have a kid , I would want them to study in the best possible school . As someone who is an immigrant and went to a cheap state school while working 50 hours a week , I am jealous of opportunities ppl from privileged families had . But I recognize that, first, it’s not their fault . Second - they still have to work hard . So mostly - me being jealous is just my idiotic bias and that’s it .

 

[Med Ed]

Don't these Caribbean schools have partnerships with hospitals for clinical rotations? My understanding is lot of these also take Caribbean grads during match. Probably some sort tactical understanding between for profit Caribbean schools and hospitals with residencies. Again, I am not advocating for Carribean schools and I don't think my kid will have to go that route but If some chose that path carefully and worked hard they will be OK.

When Caribbean students make it to the clinical years most of their tuition flows to those hospitals, so the schools don't make money on that phase of the education. They also have a limited number of clinical training slots (like everywhere else), so they can only let a limited number of students advance into the clinical phase each year.

The profit-driven business model therefore relies on accepting large cohorts of students into the high-margin preclinical years, collecting their tuition, and then finding ways to whittle down the total enrollment to a workable size prior to M3. Ideally this involves stringing students along before dismissing them (more terms enrolled = more $$$).

Of course the schools need to have some winners - students who finish, graduate, and match - or else the marketing gets too difficult.

 

[M&L]

When Caribbean students make it to the clinical years most of their tuition flows to those hospitals, so the schools don't make money on that phase of the education. They also have a limited number of clinical training slots (like everywhere else), so they can only let a limited number of students advance into the clinical phase each year.

The profit-driven business model therefore relies on accepting large cohorts of students into the high-margin preclinical years, collecting their tuition, and then finding ways to whittle down the total enrollment to a workable size prior to M3. Ideally this involves stringing students along before dismissing them (more terms enrolled = more $$$).

Of course the schools need to have some winners - students who finish, graduate, and match - or else the marketing gets too difficult.

wait, are you saying that they do not even have enough clinical slots for all the students???/

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I mean , they might have gotten him in , but I agree , 3.9 is a lot of hard work . And honestly , if I am a doctor and have a kid , I would want them to study in the best possible school . As someone who is an immigrant and went to a cheap state school while working 50 hours a week , I am jealous of opportunities ppl from privileged families had . But I recognize that, first, it’s not their fault . Second - they still have to work hard . So mostly - me being jealous is just my idiotic bias and that’s it .

Dont be jealous. The privileged should be jealous of you. I put myself through a pricey liberal arts pre med mill and both my wife and I through med school. Your backround and work ethic will ensure your success. Privelege can open certain doors for some, but without a solid work ethic the doors most likely will shut. You understand how America works and have all the tools to be successful. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Med Ed]

wait, are you saying that they do not even have enough clinical slots for all the students???/

They have enough for the ones who make it through the gauntlet. But the gauntlet exists to make sure they don't too many.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

wait, are you saying that they do not even have enough clinical slots for all the students???/

That's expected, they know their attrition rate.

 

[M&L]

There is some fraction of students with reasonable to good academic records who go to the Caribbean and other offshore schools

1) these schools have massive and highly effective marketing arms that target both prospective students and premed advisors. In addition to the constant stream of online ads that pop up from any search related to premed or MCAT and the flyers, posters, and recruiters that are found on campus, they employ their alumni in direct and personal recruiting once they get your name and contact info. To show how highly targeted this is, I once an older female commercial airline pilot who was interested in one of these schools. She was subsequently contacted by a current student who was a 40+ female former airline pilot.

2) Students and often their advisors have scant or incorrect information on the process and the reality of applying. This an acute issue at medium and small schools where you have 1 or 2 pre-health advisors who are supposed to help students thru MD, DO, RN, PT, and all the rest. Usually, these advisors have an understanding of what courses a student should take on this campus and at the basic mechanics of each application. Many advisors and students have little in-depth knowledge of how to target schools, how things actually work, statistics of acceptance, etc. They certainly have little if any idea how residency selection works

3) Related to #2 are the myths that still abound with students, advisors, and parents. You must be a biology major and take hard course loads, you cant skip a year, DO isnt a "real" doctor, you cant be too old. etc. Every year and this one is no exception, where I get prospective applicants who think as long as it is in before the deadline of Nov 1 or Dec 1 there are fine or that they only want these few schools to apply to. I have had arguments that data and reports I send on acceptances cant possibly be correct.

4) The myth that you have to be near perfect to get into medical school makes weaker to moderately good candidates believe they possibly cant get into US MD school

5) with competition for med school seats, particularly California, many students use the offshore schools as a backup in the same cycle. Again, these applicants have no idea of the level of competition, the widespread acceptance of taking a gap year, looking into DO as an alternative, or any of the postbacc, SMP, and other repair mechanisms. The ones who refuse to consider retaking a low MCAT, which is the most straight forward repair one can do, make me shake my head.

6) Related to #4 are the students and parents who believe they must do this now. They feel they have to stay with their classmates or perish. And as long as they have those two important metrics. a pulse and a checkbook, they can go to a school. Let me add my pet peeve about the business model of these schools. There is virtually no financial risk in taking an unqualified student. The student gets a loan, the school gets paid. If the student drops out, the debt belongs to the student and school has made even more profit.

7) How many reasonable to good students simply target the wrong schools, too few schools, or just cant express themselves reasonably well and produce a bad application, not knowing what they should include

this is so scary....

 

[DrStephennmnm]

OP, haven't read through the whole thread, but one major thing you need to understand is that DO = MD.

This statement is totally false and frankly a little insulting. I think you meant to say a physician (MD) = physician (DO) = physician (IMG), which I would totally agree with. However, if you actually believe MD = DO in terms of opportunities and benefits you are delusional and in fairytale land. The residency placement opportunities inherent to a USMD school is far greater than that for DOs. One only has to look at the highly competitive residencies to see most of the slots go to MDs, leading to a difference in the outcome between these two degrees in the US. That's one of the reasons I worked my ass off in UG, to get into a MD school where I can have better opportunities.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

There is some fraction of students with reasonable to good academic records who go to the Caribbean and other offshore schools

5) with competition for med school seats, particularly California, many students use the offshore schools as a backup in the same cycle. Again, these applicants have no idea of the level of competition, the widespread acceptance of taking a gap year, looking into DO as an alternative, or any of the postbacc, SMP, and other repair mechanisms. The ones who refuse to consider retaking a low MCAT, which is the most straight forward repair one can do, make me shake my head.

Lot of them do know, but they know their limitations (standardized tests anxiety) or they think any residency is fine (just like any US medical school is fine) and don't want to "waste" years and think extra cost of Carribean is recouped by entering workforce early.

Two examples.
Student #1 got very low MCAT and parents (both doctors) realized chances of getting higher score is less, opted for Caribbean, finished in 4 years and immediately matched.

Student #2, Got decent MCAT first time, don't want to go to Carribean or DO and took 3 gap years, took MCAT three more times (no improvement), finally got one expensive DO, again struggled with USMLE Step 1 and is not fully satisfied with match outcome.

Both are same age, which one came out ahead?

 

[jhmmd]

This statement is totally false and frankly a little insulting. I think you meant to say a physician (MD) = physician (DO) = physician (IMG), which I would totally agree with. However, if you actually believe MD = DO you are delusional and in fairytale land. The residency placement opportunities inherent to a USMD school is far greater than that for DOs. One only has to look at the highly competitive residencies to see most of the slots go to MDs, leading to a difference in the outcome between these two degrees in the US. That's one of the reasons I worked my ass off in UG, to get into a MD school where I can have better opportunities.

Yea what I meant was that D.O.s are still doctors. Since rule 42 passed ACGME residencies are open to D.O. grads--which gives them more opportunities than they had before. Good grades/good letters from a D.O. school will open many doors--bottom line.

A lot of people try to go to the Carribbean cuz they are dead-set on getting those M.D. initials after their last name. Not everyone gets a residency in the states after that, so it's more likely to be pennywise, pound-foolish for the money you end up owing--compared to going to a D.O. school. Those Carribbean schools are called diploma mills for a reason.

 

[M&L]

It is possible that the person with doctor parents used connections to secure good away rotations and a few phone calls to get an interview. So it is not an entirely Good example of a “common” Carib graduate . I mean , how many ppl have doctor parents to help out ?

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Yea what I meant was that D.O.s are still doctors. Since rule 42 passed ACGME residencies are open to D.O. grads--which gives them more opportunities than they had before. Good grades/good letters from a D.O. school will open many doors--bottom line.

A lot of people try to go to the Carribbean cuz they are dead-set on getting those M.D. initials after their last name. Not everyone gets a residency in the states after that, so it's more likely to be pennywise, pound-foolish for the money you end up owing--compared to going to a D.O. school. Those Carribbean schools are called diploma mills for a reason.

Yes I agree with that, those students are focused more on their pride than their career

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

It is possible that the person with doctor parents used connections to secure good away rotations and a few phone calls to get an interview. So it is not an entirely Good example of a “common” Carib graduate . I mean , how many ppl have doctor parents to help out ?

I agree, but lot of these Carib grads have physician connections.

 

[M&L]

What i really hate about the whole process is that lack of information. Maybe i am wrong, - this is just my opinion, after all, - but i do believe that the majority of bad decisions that premeds make are based on lack of information and/or on wrong conclusions due to lack of information. And often those problems can be solved by access to good healthcare focused career (or academic) counselors. I mean, look at me: i took MCAT FOUR TIMES..... the first three times without even finishing organic chemistry and biochemistry yet... Why, you ask? because i honestly did not know that it would hurt me. I hadnt discovered SDN yet, and the official AAMC resources just stated that you can take it up to 7 times... So i didnt see a problem in doing "trial runs" to see if i can magically swing it. (so naive and misguided, i know). But i wish someone will tell me "DONT DO IT". But i had no access to advisors. By the time i got to SDN, i already had 3 attempts under my belt, all around 500. It is a true miracle that i got accepted with 4 attempts.

I feel like sometimes misinformation or lack of information goes even deeper, and leads the person to make very dangerous choices with no way back. So sad and so scary.