Caribbean School Graduates/Alumni, Any Regrets?

[Leukocyte]

I am a MS-3 at Ross, any lately, I have been questioning the decision that I made 2 years ago to go to the Caribbean. Maybe I should have accepted the admission offers from the D.O. schools I applied to. Or Maybe I should have waited another year and reapplied to US Allopathic schools.

Do not take me wrong. The education at Ross is great and my USMLE 1 score is well above average. It is just that I do not know which state I will be practicing in, so I am constantly worrying about the different state licensure rules and being limited to practice in certain states, which will in turn limit my job opportunities. I also hate the agony of arguing with the Ross Clinical Department to change my schedule so that every core and elective that I do is done in a "green book" hospital that has an ACGME residency program in the area of that particular core or elective.

I am sorry for the rambling.........

Any way, any regrets from the Caribbean graduates/alumni? Any problems with state licensure, or frustrations over being limited in your job searching because of barriers placed by state licensing boards.

Thank you

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[ny skindoc]

I would not worry too much if I were you it sounds like you'll make out fine with your board scores.I'm not sure why all the fuss about where you do your rotations in med school..there are literally thousands of FMGs who trained in India,Pakistan etc..now practicing in virtually all US states who did not do even one rotation in an approved US hospital as medical students!

 

[Leukocyte]

Originally posted by ny skindoc
..there are literally thousands of FMGs who trained in India,Pakistan etc..now practicing in virtually all US states who did not do even one rotation in an approved US hospital as medical students!

Those people (true FMGs) are in a different boat. They do not have to worry about their clinical rotations because rotations done in foreign countries are exempt from being "green book".

For example, Texas does not require a graduate from India to prove that his/her medical school is "substantially equivalent" to the medical schools in Texas to get licensed in that state. St. George, Ross, etc..... graduates on the other hand are having trouble getting licensed in Texas.

 

[erichaj]

I'm a ross Graduate. I'm finishing my 3rd year in Family Practice.
My advice is to do all your rotations in a teaching hospital. Try not to do them in a D.O. teaching hospital. If you do that you will not have problems with getting a license. You may have to do more foot work to get t he license but you can get it. Ross has a good reputation. They have been around a long time.
Don't listen to all the talk that goes on. It's just talk. Just pass the boards get residency (and you will get one) and then go from there.
Many states require that fmg's do at least 3 years of residency before they can get a license. There are at least 10 that don't.
some say you need 2 years. some will do it if you have done one year. Once you have done residency in any state and you get a license in any state, then it gets easier to get another because you have proven yourself.

EH.

 

[micdoc]

hey. i'm finishing up at sgu and have absolutely no regrets. i would def. do it all over again. ross kids do really well for residencies as well...many of the chiefs in the ny area for im were from ross.

i think you might run into some problems in states like texas and california but if you def. want to do residency or practice in those particular states, do the research right now and make sure you do your neuro, FP rotations or get your california letter, etc so you don't get screwed later. most of my classmates who wanted to go to texas or cali were able to go back to their home states. of course, it was for fp, im (usc, ucla), and neuro (baylor!) but if there is a will there is def. a way (one even got ortho at UTSW!!). I don't think residency would be as big of a deal but i hear getting your license in texas is a bit tough so you might want to look into that..but i think the rest of the country is pretty much fair game!!

all the best..you'll do fine! just keep doing your thing!

 

[docmojo]

If you are an "above average" student you should be fine in pursuing most residency fields. Of course, Derm, NeuroSurg, Rads, and ENT will be tough. In general you'll be fine. I scored a categorical ANE position at a University program. My board scores were also "above average." Life is good from my perspective. Hang in there.

 

[spinestudent]

I'm not sure why anyone would ever go to a carribean medical school over an osteopathic school. Every single issue(loan options, living conditions, residency options, student body environment, licensure, etc) is easily tilted in facor of osteopathic schools.

 

[EMT036]

Except that you have a DO behind your name.

 

[Rdhdstpkd]

I'm not sure why anyone would ever go to a carribean medical school over an osteopathic school. Every single issue(loan options, living conditions, residency options, student body environment, licensure, etc) is easily tilted in facor of osteopathic schools.

DO isn't a great plan for people who plan on working internationally.

 

[DocRadak]

Whats wrong with having a "D.O." behind your name? Its better than having to go to the Carribean schools and getting laughed at when you cant get a good job in the US.

Good luck EMTO36, you're going to need it!!!

 

[EMT036]

Whats wrong with having a "D.O." behind your name? Its better than having to go to the Carribean schools and getting laughed at when you cant get a good job in the US.

Good luck EMTO36, you're going to need it!!!

Actually my post was in jest... I felt that spinestudent's previous post was so uninformed, prejudicial and *****ic that it deserved a similar reply on the other side of the coin. Unfortunately, your latest post isn't much better.

I have no problems with DO's -- some of the most caring and kindest physicians in the hospital where I worked were DO's.

 

[DocRadak]

EMTO36:

OK, my bad, I was rude in what i wrote.

It just really came off as you blatantly bashing osteopathic medicine and physicians, and I had to defend my future profession.

I applogize, no hard feelings??

 

[EMT036]

Hey no problem. I should have qualified the intent of my message sooner -- as it stood it was rude also. I appologize as well. No hard feelings

 

[CuteNurse]

I hope no one gets offended but I for one don't want a DO behind my name. Sure IMG may make it a little more difficult getting a residency etc.. But after that its MD for your whole career. DO is forever. You have american docs and nurses who don't know what a DO is and don't respect them. Some might say that is minor or I should not go into medicine if I care what my title is, but if I bust my hump for 10 years, I should have whatever I am comfortable with and DO is not it. If you want DO great for you. If you don't THAT'S OK TOO !! But I don't think you should settle because like most things, if it bothers you now it will bother you in 20 years and you will be stuck with it.

 

[Doctor Wyldstyle]

I tend to disagree that "there are american docs who dont' know what a DO is." Perhaps they know little about what osteopathy is, but they know that the DO is a fellow physician/colleague. On the East coast, Midwest, and South there are a proportionately larger number of DO schools compared to the 2 DO schools in California, 1 in Arizona so osteopathy isn't an enigma. To top that off, Michigan and Oklahoma have state DO schools. Furethermore, I think only 10% of D.O.s practice osteopathy. As an allopathic doc, you are bound to see a D.O. and know they are a physician as well. I think some 15% or 20% of the Family Medicine physicians are DO's (correct me if I'm wrong) despite D.O.s being a significantly smaller proportion of physicians as a whole.

It's very feasible that some american nurses may not know a DO is a physician especially if they are younger and on the West Coast where if they are in one place, they may have never worked with one. On the other hand, they may have worked with one in the hospital and didn't even realize the physician was a DO and not an MD because initials aren't always plastered on your name tag.

I agree with you on your point that some people really, really want the M.D. and not D.O. behind their name. It doesn't really matter to me. I actually went M.D. because the D.O.'s have to work another 600+ hours studying OMM on top of usual M.D. curriculum. However, I would have gone D.O. if I had to over Carribean. There are alot of great D.O. docs. In fact, a handful of them teach at my allopathic school.

I hope no one gets offended but I for one don't want a DO behind my name. Sure IMG may make it a little more difficult getting a residency etc.. But after that its MD for your whole career. DO is forever. You have american docs and nurses who don't know what a DO is and don't respect them. Some might say that is minor or I should not go into medicine if I care what my title is, but if I bust my hump for 10 years, I should have whatever I am comfortable with and DO is not it. If you want DO great for you. If you don't THAT'S OK TOO !! But I don't think you should settle because like most things, if it bothers you now it will bother you in 20 years and you will be stuck with it.

 

[stephew]

a common mistake is the notion that getting a residency as a do is "easier" than IMG. PDs know that DOs and IMGs both failed to get into US allo schools (spare me your stories of the oddball who went DO for the theory and Ill spare you the story of the oddball who went IMG for the "expereince"). DOs do have DO only slots. But check out residency placement between DO schools and the best IMG schools before making the error in thinking one is simply easier than another. It comes down to a PD will go with what they are comfortable with. At my place there are more IMGs than DOs, but both are around. At another there may be more DOs. Its really what fits you. JUst do the leg work. both are viable and it may come down to which DO schools versus which IMG schools you get into. I'm pleased with my route and if you are with yours, way to go.
Steph

 

[Test Boy]

There are quite a few people who chose to attend a DO school vs. a US MD school when accepted to both. Just read some of the posts here. However, I have NEVER heard of someone choosing to go to St. George's over any US MD school. I mean NEVER. That's saying something. Also, the match list for St. George's is not that impressive and looks worse than most of the DO schools' match list. Just go to their website and check out the most recent match list. Sure, there are the rare exceptions that got excellent spots but that is out of a huge class (combining different entering classes). Just cause you got into rad onc at Hopkins doesn't mean anything for future applicants. I won't be surprised if Hopkins doesn't take any St. George's graduates for rad onc for another 50 yrs (assuming that school is still around in 50 yrs).

 

[JohnnyOU]

Whats wrong with having a "D.O." behind your name? Its better than having to go to the Carribean schools and getting laughed at when you cant get a good job in the US.

Good luck EMTO36, you're going to need it!!!

Do you consider being a Chief Resident at Johns Hopkins a good job?

Just curious, since that's stephew's current position and stephew attended a Carribean school.

Johnny

 

[rose13]

DO, MD . . . US graduate . . . FMG . . . why does it matter? As long as you get a license to practice medicine, who cares? I can give you first hand assurance that the vast majority of your patients (especially those in medically underserved areas) do not care what the intitals behind your name are; they just want to make sure you can help them; I thought that this is what medicine is truly about . . .

(Someone alluded to needing an MD to practice internationally in a previous post . . . the US DO degree is recognized in 50 countries . . so far.)

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

There are quite a few people who chose to attend a DO school vs. a US MD school when accepted to both. Just read some of the posts here. However, I have NEVER heard of someone choosing to go to St. George's over any US MD school. I mean NEVER. That's saying something. Also, the match list for St. George's is not that impressive and looks worse than most of the DO schools' match list. Just go to their website and check out the most recent match list. Sure, there are the rare exceptions that got excellent spots but that is out of a huge class (combining different entering classes). Just cause you got into rad onc at Hopkins doesn't mean anything for future applicants. I won't be surprised if Hopkins doesn't take any St. George's graduates for rad onc for another 50 yrs (assuming that school is still around in 50 yrs).

Yes, if I had gotten in at a US school, I would have gone there instead of SGU, but I think our recent residency placements are pretty darn good. The fact that stephew is from SGU and got into one of the most competitive fields at one of the most well-known programs gives the rest of us IMG's hope that with hard work and determination, it is possible to do what you want. Granted, IMG's do have hurdles to cross, but as stephew said, it's all about who a program feels most comfortable with.

And quite frankly, I think a program would be more open to at least consider a graduate from a particular school if their experience with others from that school has been positive. I may be wrong, of course. Stephew, what are your plans when finished with residency?

 

[(nicedream)]

a common mistake is the notion that getting a residency as a do is "easier" than IMG. PDs know that DOs and IMGs both failed to get into US allo schools (spare me your stories of the oddball who went DO for the theory and Ill spare you the story of the oddball who went IMG for the "expereince")

People that chose DO over MD are not "oddballs" by any stretch - it's a lot more common than you think.

 

[chesspro_md]

Leukocyte,

I am also from Ross. I matched into my first choice this year for surgery. When the Ross match list from this year comes out you will feel much better. Don't worry about matching. If your scores are good then you will get the residency that you want. You will be able to do residency in any state that you want. If you have any questions just PM me. Good luck

 

[erichaj]

GET REAL GUYS, md,do, it does not make a difference .
and really how many of you are going to go to work in another country?
come on, get over it.
EH.

 

[dawnjon]

what it comes down to is personal preference, and something to stroke the ego, but really what a dying or acutely ill person just want to know is "am I going to die? can you help me?" they don't give a damn about DO, or MD its the one's who are not on their death bed you gotta look out for, they watch out for your credentials like hawks. lol

 

[Adapt]

PDs know that DOs and IMGs both failed to get into US allo schools (spare me your stories of the oddball who went DO for the theory and Ill spare you the story of the oddball who went IMG for the "expereince").

I will probably go DO and did not "fail" to get into a US MD school. I am also not an oddball. I am really appalled that such an outrageous statement is coming from a moderator.

 

[VentdependenT]

One of my best buddies turned down his acceptance to US allo school to go to AZCOM. Not common but folks do it.

 

[dbiddy808]

I am a Saba grad. I don't regret it at all. I hardly ever went to class and barely ever studied during all six years of undergraduate study. And here I am an MD!

I would have probably gone to a DO school if I could have (I didn't apply to any med schools other that Saba).

Funny story is that when I was an intern I worked a month with a DO resident. He was very good. Two different times during my rotation patients we were admitting asked what a DO was. It really pissed him off.

At least with an MD you'll never have to explain what an MD is.

 

[tRmedic21]

I personally have nothing against a DO... in fact, probably 2 or 3 out of the 5 best docs I ever worked with were DO, BUT it was the ignorance that made the decision for me. I had multiple patients who saw these same outstanding physicians in the ER, then told me later that they didn't trust them because they weren't a 'real doctor'. Of course, most of these folks were 70+ years old, and hadn't been educated about osteopathic medicine. I did my best to explain to them (in my limited understanding at the time) that the DO degree was comparable to the MD degree, just a different teaching pholosophy. Of course, they still weren't convinced, and I wasn't surprised. But regardless, this kind of attitude did influence me, as I knew for a fact that a certain number of patients will refuse to go to see a doctor if he wasn't an MD. Call it stupid, hardheaded, ignorant, whatever, it was a fact I had to confront.

Then there is the licensure issue in other countries. Some people are not interested in practicing outside the United States, and that's fine. But there are lots of us who are, whether on a permanent basis or a temporary basis, such as medical missions. My wife and I plan on both, and the DO degree is not (by my last investigation) accepted in her country of birth, therefore it was automatically ruled out in our case. At one time I actually thought I would prefer the DO mentality regarding teaching, but I am now glad I went the USIMG route at a reputable school. My licensure issues in the US will be a bit more of a headache, but if I do my homework ahead of time and follow the prescribed rules, I should be fine. This was the choice for me (I am one of those oddballs stephew spoke of choosing the offshore route for the 'experience', and damn proud of it) and the DO or US MD choice for others was theirs. Nothing wrong with that, and different situations call for different measures. I wish luck to any and all. I think the biggest problem we have in these matters is ignorance and elitism, neither of which should be condoned in a field as critical as medicine, but unfortunately are often not only condoned, but rewarded. I would like to do my little part to change that, by being a stellar physician who reflects well on the people who made the same choice I did.

Good luck!

 

[CuteNurse]

Although we sometimes disagree, that was a kick a@@ post trmedic

 

[bigworm]

here i am in the dilemma right now, i'm going thru every post to find what would be better for myself st george's or a u.s. do, i asked all the docs and residents that i worked with over the past few years and every one has an opinion but that's just it they' re all just opinions, no one can tell me a good answer. they have told me the conservative answers, like bottom line you're a minority if you become a d.o. what do you think it's going to be like for yourself competing against a stack of md's, the d.o.'s i know say it's great for the career choices they wanted to make but don't elaborate why they didnt take an offshore path when faced with md school rejections, the few st george grads i know say do the md it's safer in the long run. no one has told me the con's to what they chose to do, rather they slam the alternative,

it's seems you have to decide which battle you are willing to take on the rest of your life - yes my diploma says i went overseas or what's a d.o. from an ignorant patient, the u.s. md programs i have applied have wait listed me and flat out told me it's slim to none this year...

so what i'm really asking is for more people to revive this little debate and anyone that had to make the choice before to post some more pros and cons, foreign md vs do? any regrets ?

 

[Wo1verine7DO]

I was bored so I decided to reply...who cares what degree you have, if you keep thinking about it, you'll never be a good doctor, just go where your happy and comfortable cause either way MD, DO, IMG, medical school isn't easy...go to school for 4 years so you can learn how to help make people better. When I've shadowed doctors, most of them didn't care why I went to a DO school over an MD, I applied to all 3 USMD (Waitlisted), DO, and IMD school (SGU, ROSS)...I wanted to stay in the US cause I get gov't loans, my DO school along with Univ. Missouri -KC and University of Kansas Medical school all rotate professors, ex. we had pharm for our cardiology section, once KU ended their cario section he came to our school to teach us the same material...plus I like to environment and its cheaper than ROSS and SGU, the students help each other, its not an entire class of Gunner's who all try to be number 1. If people have problem with DO degree, its not just that one degree, they'll have other prejudices too...
FYI: Havard Medical school had a CME program on OMT
http://cme.med.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/hmscme.cgi?SECTION=CLASSES&ID=00241286&SO=N

 

[CuteNurse]

You had darn well better think about it and preferably long and hard Bigworm ! And it does not bar you from being a good doctor. It makes you cautious and realistic which are daily limitations of the practice of medicine. If you don't mind being a DO stay in the US if you can. As I have stated previously , if you think that DO will bother you don't do it because it will still bother you in 20 years AND you will be stuck with it. If you don't want to be a DO don't let ANYBODY give you any crap about it !! IT IS OKAY TO HAVE A PREFERENCE !! If you bust your hump for 10 years get what you want. I have "HELPED PEOPLE GET BETTER" as a CNA, LPN & RN and I will still be attending medical school in 2006 If my plan stays on track. You have to answer the questions because you have to live with the answers and their consequences. Just give it some serious thought and decide what you want and to heck with anyone and their rosy it's all the same speech. Its only all the same if its all the same to you. Good luck

 

[stephew]

People that chose DO over MD are not "oddballs" by any stretch - it's a lot more common than you think.

Not really its not. I, as an IMG interested in med ed in general, know many DOs and have had this conversation. Its a fine education in general but most go into it because they failed to get into a U S allopathic school. Same with where I went to school.

 

[stephew]

I will probably go DO and did not "fail" to get into a US MD school. I am also not an oddball. I am really appalled that such an outrageous statement is coming from a moderator.

If its that easy to appall you I recommend youre not reading the daily news. Turn off CNN now. THAT is outrageous and appalling.

I think perhaps (perhaps) folks are taking issue with my use of "oddball". Dont take that too much to heart. I didnt mean "Weirdo". I meant merely someone taking the unusual route. But I stand by my statement that most DOs just like most IMGs, take that path because they failed to get into a US allopathic school.

I also stand by the notion that it is generally poor idea to choose to go overseas rather than go to a US allopathic school.By all means, medic, go out, be out standing and make all of us IMGs look good. But I would advise anyone who gets into a US MD program to take that route. Will that not be the best decision for every single person? -that's a rhetorical question. But it will be right for vast vast majority.

In the end I would say that anyone who shuns a DO degree because they want an "MD" behind their name should re-think why they're doing this medicine thing in the first place. Equally Id say that anyone who things the DO route is patently better than the IMG route is misguided. In short if you are choosing between DO or IMG, you've got a lot of work cut out for you; look at what schools are accepting you, then look at the outcomes for their grads. Then look at your personal needs and make your decision.

And finally, for the love of all things good and right, if these issues are the sort of things that make you take up arms, I can only say that you should count your blessings that these are the most stirring issues in your life and more power to you.

 

[JohnnyOU]

If its that easy to appall you I recommend youre not reading the daily news. Turn off CNN now. THAT is outrageous and appalling.

I think perhaps (perhaps) folks are taking issue with my use of "oddball". Dont take that too much to heart. I didnt mean "Weirdo". I meant merely someone taking the unusual route. But I stand by my statement that most DOs just like most IMGs, take that path because they failed to get into a US allopathic school.

I also stand by the notion that it is generally poor idea to choose to go overseas rather than go to a US allopathic school.By all means, medic, go out, be out standing and make all of us IMGs look good. But I would advise anyone who gets into a US MD program to take that route. Will that not be the best decision for every single person? -that's a rhetorical question. But it will be right for vast vast majority.

In the end I would say that anyone who shuns a DO degree because they want an "MD" behind their name should re-think why they're doing this medicine thing in the first place. Equally Id say that anyone who things the DO route is patently better than the IMG route is misguided. In short if you are choosing between DO or IMG, you've got a lot of work cut out for you; look at what schools are accepting you, then look at the outcomes for their grads. Then look at your personal needs and make your decision.

And finally, for the love of all things good and right, if these issues are the sort of things that make you take up arms, I can only say that you should count your blessings that these are the most stirring issues in your life and more power to you.

I agree about the oddball thing If someone using a word like oddball gets to you, then you're in for a world of hurt.

Anyone who is that "sensitive" should not even consider a career in public medicine.

J~

 

[daelroy]

PD's favor DO over FMG's for the same reason they favor MD's over DO's. It's much tougher getting into a DO school than foreign medical school. Let's be honest, foreign medical schools essentially have no admissions process with the exception of SGU and even they are cakewalk as far as getting in. As far as skill is concerned, I know many FMG's that are amazing doctors and that are much better than U.S. trained MD's and DO's.

Skill and personality often have nothing to do with getting residency. A lot of times it is politics and you would have to extremely misinformed or stupid to suggest that FMG's are considered on the same level as DO's in the eyes of most PD's. Sure, there are exceptions possibly in New York but for the rest of the 95% of the PD's out there especially those outside the East Coast, DO's are overwhelmingly favored over FMG's. On the flip side, the west coast is especially brutal toward FMG's. In the west coast particularly California, it's no contest as to who is favored.

I know that many FMG's could have gotten into DO school. I won't deny that reality. But please, let's not deny that schools like SGU, Ross and AUC don't have their fair share of 2.8 GPAers either so let's not pretend that all or even most FMG's could have gotten into a DO school because they couldn't. The only significant difference between MD and DO admissions is the MCAT score. Many DO schools still boast average GPA's of around a 3.5 which is which is comparable to most MD schools. The reason why most people are forced to attending a DO school is because their MCAT scores were below 30. It's not because they had a 2.9 GPA like most Carribean grads. A person with a 3.5 GPA either does an MPH or retakes the MCAT before they settle on the Carribean. Most people who go to the Carribean have no legitimate shot an MD or DO school in general.

There are overwhelming advantages with being an DO over an Carribean MD that posts like these are sick jokes. Sure, there are standout FMG's like the moderator who the Chief of radonc at Hopkins. But DO's have their fair share of standouts as well. Let's stick to what everyone is trying to ascertain here and that is the rule and not the exception. The rule is that DO's are favored over FMG's. Yes, in the hierarchy of medicine, it goes MD, DO, FMG. The DO route is overwhelming superior to the Carribean route than many Carribean MD's have no problem admitting they would have gone DO if they could do it over again. But you will never hear a DO wish he did the Carribean route.

It is sad that the only reason why people chose an Carribean MD over a DO school was because they feared patients wouldn't know what a DO was and wouldn't see you. Go find a DO who will admit that he has lost significant business because of his initials. Guess what, you won't.

Finally, I chose DO school over MD. Yes, I'm an odball but a huge part of my decision had to do with geography. I wanted to attend medical school in a big city as opposed to attending some state medical school in a rural community like Oklahoma. And I have no desired to do surgery so I'm not concerned about being a DO. I know my patients aren't going to care if I'm a DO.

 

[daelroy]

Do you consider being a Chief Resident at Johns Hopkins a good job?

Just curious, since that's stephew's current position and stephew attended a Carribean school.

Johnny

There is also a DO that matched into an allo dermatology residency at the Cleveland Clinic from AZCOM last year. There are exceptions in every field. Let's come back down to earth shall we. The vast majority of DO's and FMG's aren't going to come anywhere near programs like Hopkins. But at least the DO grad has control where he will do residency and his rotations. Unlike your Carribean grad, you aren't going to see many DO's forced to doing a third year rotation in the ghetto in NYC or doing family practice in some 10,000 population town in Nebraska. Yeah, the DO may not get Stanford but he isn't going to be forced to working in BFE either.

 

[daelroy]

I hope no one gets offended but I for one don't want a DO behind my name. Sure IMG may make it a little more difficult getting a residency etc.. But after that its MD for your whole career. DO is forever. You have american docs and nurses who don't know what a DO is and don't respect them. Some might say that is minor or I should not go into medicine if I care what my title is, but if I bust my hump for 10 years, I should have whatever I am comfortable with and DO is not it. If you want DO great for you. If you don't THAT'S OK TOO !! But I don't think you should settle because like most things, if it bothers you now it will bother you in 20 years and you will be stuck with it.

Yeah, but the thing is if you do the Carribean route, you have pretty much settled on a primary care field and killed any legitimate chance at specialzing. There are exceptions but you need to ace the boards and get something that is ridiculously high on step 1 to stand a chance. FMG's have to do that much better than MD's and DO to be a viable candidate. DO's still get much more consideration than FMG's at most hospitals and then they get access to osteopathic residencies too. I would much rather be a DO orthopedic surgeon than an IMG MD family practice doc who failed to match ortho.

Any American doc that doesn't know what a DO is must not have a television set or heard of the internet either. And yes, there are plenty of nurses that don't know what a DO is but that usually doesn't matter since they refer to their DO colleauge by DOCTOR, the same title they call their FMG and US allo doctors as well. Your patients are going to care about your personality. You could tell a patient you went to Ross for medical school in the Carribean and they will probably think you were lucky to attend medical school in the islands. Most patients do not care one way or the other. It's rather silly to make your life so much more hectic because of an illegitimate fear. Yes, if the majority of your patients are US trained MD's then you should worry about being a DO.

 

[goolesss]

Most people who go to the Carribean have no legitimate shot an MD or DO school in general??
Give me a break. I graduated with a gpa of 3.82 with a double major in bio and chemistry. I also scored a 33 in the MCAT. So you say I had no chance in getting in a US med school? I also had research experiences at Cornell medical school and Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Listen, I decided to attend an offshore med school for personal reasons. I guarantee you I?ll do well in the USMLE and get my match.
It is sad to say that people/patients and even MD?s do questioned DO?s. I shadowed 2 FP DO?s and 4 Psychiatrist MD?s for 2 yrs, and believe me, the DO?s were treated like *crap*. It didn?t matter that the DO was trying to explain their different philosophies; they were the joke of the week/month behind the close doors.
Now, I don?t have nothing against DO?s, as a matter of fact, I considered it. I just got ?hot? by you saying that most people attending offshore schools had bad grades/mcat scores. I worked really hard to earn my grades and scores to have someone like minimize it. I sit down every day in calss with a bright 46 year old Pharmacologist who graduated from Cornell 3.6 gpa 30 mcat, and worked for Cornell Hospital. It is ashamed that the only reason he got rejected to US med schools is because of his age: he has so much insight that you and me could only dream of.
You are right, some people here never stood a chance getting accepted to US med school, but some of us did. You are falling in the same trap in generalizing offshore students as most non-ethical doctors do.

 

[Adapt]

It is sad to say that people/patients and even MD?s do questioned DO?s. I shadowed 2 FP DO?s and 4 Psychiatrist MD?s for 2 yrs, and believe me, the DO?s were treated like *crap*. It didn?t matter that the DO was trying to explain their different philosophies; they were the joke of the week/month behind the close doors.

I highly doubt that when you say those 2 DOs were the joke of the week. I would have been more inclined to believe you when if you said that two caribbean grads were the joke of the week.

Daelroy, it's good to see another person who chose DO over MD. Contrary to what our moderator on this board believes, us oddballs seem to be multiplying.

 

[skypilot]

The only significant difference between MD and DO admissions is the MCAT score. Many DO schools still boast average GPA's of around a 3.5 which is which is comparable to most MD schools. The reason why most people are forced to attending a DO school is because their MCAT scores were below 30. It's not because they had a 2.9 GPA like most Carribean grads. A person with a 3.5 GPA either does an MPH or retakes the MCAT before they settle on the Carribean.

Yup, many DO schools have a higher average GPA than MD schools.

KCOM even has a higher average MCAT than 40 of the Allopathic schools.

 

[tropicaldoc2004]

We have all heard stories of the one that went to DO over MD or the Carribean over USMD. But in the end, the only ones that will be good doctors in competitive fields are the ones that study, do well on their boards, do well with their patients and impress the PD. These are the people, MD or DO, that will be accepted. There is always the case of the DO getting derm (AZCOM) or the IMG getting derm(ROSS)...but you have also to realize those students were the best of the best. For whatever reason they ended up at a non-traditional school and obviously excelled to the point they impressed the PD and got a position. I just dont understand why people need to belittle others, probably because it makes their ego's bigger. Those that want a certain residency can gei it ONLY if they work HARD! No matter where you are from!!

Just my two cents!

 

[rose13]

Most people who go to the Carribean have no legitimate shot an MD or DO school in general??
It is sad to say that people/patients and even MD?s do questioned DO?s. I shadowed 2 FP DO?s and 4 Psychiatrist MD?s for 2 yrs, and believe me, the DO?s were treated like *crap*. It didn?t matter that the DO was trying to explain their different philosophies; they were the joke of the week/month behind the close doors.


I have friends with MD's who were "treated like crap" because they are minority and/or female, only they were the "joke of the day" to their faces.

Ignorance exists everywhere, regardless of one's education or initials.

 

[Skip Intro]

It just really came off as you blatantly bashing osteopathic medicine and physicians, and I had to defend my future profession.

I can tell you that, having rotated with LECOM, NYCOM, PCOM, and Touro students in my cores already (and, yes, at ACGME/LCME approved rotations), we are in the same boat.

Always strongly resist the urge to bash anyone. You'll only end-up looking like an a$$hole. Trust me. There are ****ty LECOM students too. I know this firsthand. And, if you haven't made it to the clinic yet, you're in for a surprise when you see how many Ross, SGU, AUC (etc.) students you'll be doing your clerkships with.

-Skip

 

[daelroy]

Now, I don't have nothing against DO's, as a matter of fact, I considered it. I just got "hot" by you saying that most people attending offshore schools had bad grades/mcat scores. I worked really hard to earn my grades and scores to have someone like minimize it. I sit down every day in calss with a bright 46 year old Pharmacologist who graduated from Cornell 3.6 gpa 30 mcat, and worked for Cornell Hospital. It is ashamed that the only reason he got rejected to US med schools is because of his age: he has so much insight that you and me could only dream of.
You are right, some people here never stood a chance getting accepted to US med school, but some of us did. You are falling in the same trap in generalizing offshore students as most non-ethical doctors do.

Are you seriously saying otherwise; that most FMG grads had normal stats that chose to go the Caribean route? Please, you are in denial. Hey, I will admit that most DO applicants had lower stats but give me a freaking break. The stats of most FMG grads is far lower than most DO's. That is why PD's favor DO's over FMG's is because they know that DO's have at least some admission standards as opposed to the open door policy that exists at Ross and AUC. And while SGU has somewhat normal admission standards, it is far easier getting into SGU than any DO school. It's a hierarchy if you haven't figured that out by now. Yes, while most PD's will favor their U.S. allo grads over DO students, they will also favor DO students over the FMG's for the same damn reason: it's tougher to get into a DO school than an foreign medical school. DUH! This should be common sense to you people. It's laughable how so many of you haven't grasped this simple concept. For crying out loud, Ross and AUC didn't even require the MCAT a few years ago.

I don't have a problem with people going to the Carribean but let's quit the BS and be a little more honest. You guys are going to the Carribean for the MD title. That's it. you aren't going there because you feel you will have a better chance at matching competitive residencies when compared to being a DO. There are always trade offs. Sure, you are getting your MD but you are also taking a hit in securing better residencies. There are always exception of the Ross student or the SGU student who secured something amazing but that's the exception and not the rule. However, DO routinely secure competitive fields; sure not at the same level as allo grads but far higher than their Carribean counterparts. That's just the reality. Anyone who genuinely believes that being an FMG is better than being a DO in regards to securing competitive fields is simply ignorant or being defensive. We all know the truth. Let's move on.

 

[daelroy]

Not really its not. I, as an IMG interested in med ed in general, know many DOs and have had this conversation. Its a fine education in general but most go into it because they failed to get into a U S allopathic school. Same with where I went to school.

Agreed, but the reality is that most Carribean grads couldn't even get into a DO school let alone an allopathic school. I know it's convenient for the sake of argument to suggest that all Carribean grads got into DO schools and chose to hit the islands but we know that's b.s. I understand that you have an agenda to protect Carribean grads but now you are getting to the point of pure dishonestly. I know there is a good percentage of students that could have gotten into a DO school but let's not kid ourselves, the majority of IMG's had no choice but to attend a foreign medical school. Plenty of your classmates had sub 3.0 GPA's that couldn't have gotten them into any US medical school: MD or DO. Why do you think so many people fail out of Ross and AUC; it's because they were terrible students to begin with and couldn't hang once admitted. It's not easy for a 2.5 GPA student to suddenly take Human Anatomy and be expected to be proficient.

PD's know this which is why DO's are given preferential treatment over IMG's. This is the rule. Yes, I know some random hospital in New York likes FMG's better but for every hospital that prefers IMG's to DO's, I can give you 10 hospitals that favor DO's over IMG's.

 

[TTSD]

Yeah. MOST Caribs have subpar numbers, end of story. But that doesn't mean anything for the end result of what comes out at the end of four years. In fact, the "big three" carib school graduates actually have pretty low records of having disciplinary actions taken against them (remember, I said "big three" not places like Spartan that seems to get on the news everyday).

I think, like any other school it depends on the applicant. The sad truth is, yes, most US schools do just depend on raw numbers. That 3.0 with a gazillion science units is NOT going to stack up against that 3.5+ humanities major unless you catch the admissions officers eyes with something. And the Caribbean offers those of us who screwed the pooch somewhere down the line to prove that we're worthy and get that MD we've desired for so long.

Oh, btw.. Adapt.. just anectodal evidence.. our Health Center's docs are DO's and i wouldn't trust them with a cold. :-D

 

[daelroy]

Yeah. MOST Caribs have subpar numbers, end of story. But that doesn't mean anything for the end result of what comes out at the end of four years. In fact, the "big three" carib school graduates actually have pretty low records of having disciplinary actions taken against them (remember, I said "big three" not places like Spartan that seems to get on the news everyday).

And the big "three" also have low records of placing their students into competitive spots. Besides, FMG's are notorious for being absolutely clueless during rotations because they get no preclinical training whatsoever. They always have to work far harder than their US counterparts because of this disadvantage.

And the 3.5 humanities major isn't going to get into medical school without a solid MCAT so he must know some science. That excuse is rather weak. It suprises me that the 3.0 grad with "all the science courses" couldn't muster up a decent MCAT. I guess those sciences courses were not all that impressive

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

I think if you take a look at SGU's past residency placements, you'll see that we, in fact, get quite respectable residencies. Granted, we don't usually get super-competitive ones, but Orthopedic Surgery and Radiation Oncology are ultra-competitive, and we've had students get those residencies in the past (only a small number, but they've got them, just the same).

And yes, there are some clueless clinical students that come from here. But I've seen quite a few clueless clinical students from U.S. schools as well--even full-fledged physicians who graduated from U.S. schools. As we all know, it's really not where you come from, but what you put in to your education. I think you should look at your own school before you point the finger at others.

 

[Wo1verine7DO]

I'm curious why do people even bother arguing who is better than who, this is just like a stupid ego contest...everyone made their decisions already and has to live with what they chose. As for competitive residencies, they are always going to be tough to get into...anyone has a chance to apply...everyone US MD, DO, FMG all get rejected...they'll take who they know more than what your grades were, so if you want a tough residency do a rotation with a hospital that has that specific residency program and do your best to sell yourself and why they should keep you there.