Caribbean MD's - Hard to get Good Residency?

[JustinG]

I'm a CA resident, applying to Caribbean as a backup, instead of doing postbacc/SMP. I hear that many Caribb med schools are becoming a popular alternative to DO, and so if I choose the Caribb MD route, when I come back to the US, will my chances of getting a residency ANYWHERE in the US be affected, even if I graduate with high stats? What about landing a residency in CA?

Thanks!

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[DrJD]

I'm a CA resident, applying to Caribbean as a backup, instead of doing postbacc/SMP. I hear that many Caribb med schools are becoming a popular alternative to DO, and so if I choose the Caribb MD route, when I come back to the US, will my chances of getting a residency ANYWHERE in the US be affected, even if I graduate with high stats? What about landing a residency in CA?

Thanks!

Yes, and yes...

One of the first posts you are going to get is "do a search." You may also get, "check ValueMD"

Both good suggestions.

I will say that getting back to CA will be very difficult unless you take a year off between medical school and residency due to requirements for work. In order to apply for the documents you need to apply for residency you need a medical school diploma which you get in June, but you were supposed to apply for residency back in November. I've heard of a few places in CA that will just trust that you will be approved, but I wouldn't count on it.

Also, there is a stigma associated with the Caribbean.

I once worked with a residency director at UC Davis before medical school and he said to me, "Whatever you do, don't go to a Caribbean school, that will follow you your whole career." Anecdotal, sure, but straight from the mouth of one of the people you would hope to pick you.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

I'm a CA resident, applying to Caribbean as a backup, instead of doing postbacc/SMP. I hear that many Caribb med schools are becoming a popular alternative to DO, and so if I choose the Caribb MD route, when I come back to the US, will my chances of getting a residency ANYWHERE in the US be affected, even if I graduate with high stats? What about landing a residency in CA?

Thanks!

Generally its advised that you go DO over Caribbean MD... and this is coming from a Caribbean med student. (AUC)

Match rate (including prematch and scramble) for the big 4 was around 85-90%... but with the increasing enrollment of US MD and DOs who are going to allopathic residencies... that number will only get smaller. (Unless the new residency bill passes)

If you truly cannot get into a DO school and still want to practice medicine and don't want to spend 2 years in a post-bac then caribbean is a viable option.

You will have to do better on your steps than a US MD or US DO student to get a comparable residency.

-Good Luck

 

[howelljolly]

I'm a CA resident, applying to Caribbean as a backup, instead of doing postbacc/SMP. I hear that many Caribb med schools are becoming a popular alternative to DO, and so if I choose the Caribb MD route, when I come back to the US, will my chances of getting a residency ANYWHERE in the US be affected, even if I graduate with high stats? What about landing a residency in CA?

Thanks!

Carib schools as an alternative.... its the other way around... go DO before Carib MD.... The objective is to get a residency, and DO is more likely to get your there... especially factoring in that you'll be applying ~5 years from now.

Youre chances of landing a residency "anywhere" are less even with high stats. Certain states will ban you from residency with a Carib MD (regardless of scores) , which isnt the case for DO.

California is especially problematic. First, only a handful of Caribbean schools are recognized by CA. If you havent gone to all four years of med school in one of these, it doesnt matter what your scores are. You wont be able to do residency or EVER practice in the state of CA. Secondly, as another poster mentioned, theres additional paperwork which may cost you a year after med school.

Read the other threads on the Caribbean forum, most of your questions will be answered.

 

[JustinG]

Thanks. I'm asking because I heard Ross School of med cators to their graduates and helps them find any residencies. IMO, many of these med schools would have been lower tier med schools in teh US, only migrated to the Caribb. But I'll check teh other threads. I'm new here

 

[howelljolly]

Thanks. I'm asking because I heard Ross School of med cators to their graduates and helps them find any residencies. IMO, many of these med schools would have been lower tier med schools in teh US, only migrated to the Caribb. But I'll check teh other threads. I'm new here

That's not true. It's up to the student to apply/match into residency. In the event they don't get one, its up to the student/graduate to "find" one. Neither Ross, nor any other Carib med school helps their graduates find a residency. Except maybe SGU. Those guys never cease to amaze me.

and it's "caters".... and they don't do that either.

 

[RussianJoo]

no unfortunately even SGU doesn't help you with residencies in anyway. I'll go as far as saying that not only does Ross not help you with residencies but they don't even help you graduate because you have to scheudle your own clinical electives and if you're in the dark the school won't reach out to you and say hey you need to do this and that. At SGU you have to schedule your own 4th year electives as well.

Basically no one helps you get a residency it's actually kind of illegal for them to do that. And definitely immoral.

Who ever said that to you either doesn't know or if he does is flat out lying to you. When it comes to Ross I've only heard how they try to fail their students by raising the passing grade for a test after too many students pass the test.

 

[JonathanMD]

When it comes to Ross I've only heard how they try to fail their students by raising the passing grade for a test after too many students pass the test.

I think I heard that once or twice (a while ago).

To be fair, the only gray area is between 60% - 65% on their Mini Exams. This is the only range where the Minimum Passing Score (MPS) can fluctuate between, based on how well the class did as a whole (no different when curves are used). In the orientation, they said there was a name for this and it's used in many medical schools.

Now if they stick strictly to that system as it is intended or if they fudge the line and bump up the MPS at their own discretion is where the controversy is and right now I have no idea if it's true or not.

But 65% on your tests isn't unreasonable.

Just get 65% on all your tests and you'll pass all your classes and you won't have to worry about any gray area.

 

[howelljolly]

no unfortunately even SGU doesn't help you with residencies in anyway. I'll go as far as saying that not only does Ross not help you with residencies but they don't even help you graduate because you have to scheudle your own clinical electives and if you're in the dark the school won't reach out to you and say hey you need to do this and that. At SGU you have to schedule your own 4th year electives as well.

Basically no one helps you get a residency it's actually kind of illegal for them to do that. And definitely immoral.

Who ever said that to you either doesn't know or if he does is flat out lying to you. When it comes to Ross I've only heard how they try to fail their students by raising the passing grade for a test after too many students pass the test.

That too


Ah, the dreaded "mandatory curve". The third standard deviation (or second, if theyre really brutal), below the mean fails, regardless of their actual score.

 

[howelljolly]

I think I heard that once or twice (a while ago).

To be fair, the only gray area is between 60% - 65% on their Mini Exams. This is the only range where the Minimum Passing Score (MPS) can fluctuate between, based on how well the class did as a whole (no different when curves are used). In the orientation, they said there was a name for this and it's used in many medical schools.

Now if they stick strictly to that system as it is intended or if they fudge the line and bump up the MPS at their own discretion is where the controversy is and right now I have no idea if it's true or not.

But 65% on your tests isn't unreasonable.

Just get 65% on all your tests and you'll pass all your classes and you won't have to worry about any gray area.

mandatory curve

 

[JonathanMD]

mandatory curve

Isn't that more of a strict bell curve? Like the lowest 20% of the class will get F's no matter what their scores were or something.

At Ross, if everyone in the class gets 65% or higher on their tests, everyone passes.


edit: Here's exactly how it was explained to me:

This is roughly what the grade distribution looked like for one of the exams last semester.

​

1. A vertical line is drawn at 60% and another at 65%.
2. A horizontal line is drawn where the curve intersects the 65.
3. A diagonal line is draw, beginning from the point where the horizontal line intersects the 60, down and across to the x-axis at the 65.
4. The point where the diagonal line and the curve intersect is the MPS for that test.

The maximum value for the MPS is 65 and the minimum value is 60.

(Oops. My y-axis is wrong. That should be number of students.)

Anyway, back to residencies and how much the Caribbean sucks.

 

[howelljolly]

Isn't that more of a strict bell curve? Like the lowest 20% of the class will get F's no matter what their scores were or something.

At Ross, if everyone in the class gets 65% or higher on their tests, everyone passes.

Yeah thats what it is.

What about the final exam? Is that on a mandatory curve?

 

[JustinG]

Basically no one helps you get a residency it's actually kind of illegal for them to do that. And definitely immoral.

Who ever said that to you either doesn't know or if he does is flat out lying to you. When it comes to Ross I've only heard how they try to fail their students by raising the passing grade for a test after too many students pass the test.

Actually the reason I even started this thread was because a friend of mine GOES to Ross, and told me Ross has some connections to mid-lower tier med schools for residencies. I've never been to Ross so I don't want to comment.

 

[avatarftw]

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[RussianJoo]

Actually the reason I even started this thread was because a friend of mine GOES to Ross, and told me Ross has some connections to mid-lower tier med schools for residencies. I've never been to Ross so I don't want to comment.

I am sorry but your friend is in the dark on this one. they might have connections for placing students in clinical rotations during 3rd and 4th year but no way will there be any help when applying for residencies. If that was the case then Ross would claim 100% residency placement rate and word would get out and everyone would go to Ross, and Ross would raise their tuition. What your friend says is wishful thinking.

 

[Gavanshir]

Just look at what the data says...it says that IMG's have a hard time "matching" to their desired specialty.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf

Thanks for that link. Anyone know if US permanent residents graduating from international medschools are counted in the US citizen statistics or as non-US citizens?

 

[avatarftw]

a

 

[howelljolly]

Actually the reason I even started this thread was because a friend of mine GOES to Ross, and told me Ross has some connections to mid-lower tier med schools for residencies. I've never been to Ross so I don't want to comment.

No. As RJ says, the only "connections" that Ross has to American med schools is for 3rd and 4th year rotations. American Med schools might take care of their own students. They aren't going to take care of some other schools students... certainly not a foreign school.

Residency placement is entirely on your own. It kinda seems like you dont understand how it works. Its not like finding a job. You apply....programs look at their pile of thousands and thousands of apps (not an exaggeration). If they offer you an interview, you go and meet them. Then you apply for the match as an Independent Applicant, and a computer will place you in a program. Residency matching is completely between you, the program, and the computer.

So, no Carib school can help you get a residency. Its almost illegal, and probably unethical.

 

[howelljolly]

Thanks for that link. Anyone know if US permanent residents graduating from international medschools are counted in the US citizen statistics or as non-US citizens?

Why wouldn't a permanent resident be counted as a non-citizen? Just wondering. I dont know how it works.

 

[medflava]

no unfortunately even SGU doesn't help you with residencies in anyway. I'll go as far as saying that not only does Ross not help you with residencies but they don't even help you graduate because you have to scheudle your own clinical electives and if you're in the dark the school won't reach out to you and say hey you need to do this and that. At SGU you have to schedule your own 4th year electives as well.

Basically no one helps you get a residency it's actually kind of illegal for them to do that. And definitely immoral.

Who ever said that to you either doesn't know or if he does is flat out lying to you. When it comes to Ross I've only heard how they try to fail their students by raising the passing grade for a test after too many students pass the test.

That's hard to believe..I know people who graduated from SJSM..which is not one of the big 4, and they will schedule rotations a few weeks to a month after they receive the passing Step 1 score.

 

[Phur]

That's hard to believe..I know people who graduated from SJSM..which is not one of the big 4, and they will schedule rotations a few weeks to a month after they receive the passing Step 1 score.

Cores, yes, the schools tend to do for you. Electives are usually on your own with the only possible exception being doing electives at a hospital that is affiliated for core rotations. Since the clinical office works with the people there regularly, it can be easier to schedule electives through them.

To the OP, as everyone who is CURRENTLY IN a Carib med program has said, your best bet is to stay in the US and do DO or a post-bacc or study to improve MCAT, now moreso than ever with class sizes increasing across the country. Caribbean should be a last resort.

 

[RussianJoo]

yep exactly like stated above. your 3rd year cores will be scheduled for you, but 4th year electives will not. that doesn't mean they're hard to schedule but you'll have to do your own calling around to see if they have empty spots during the time you want to do your cores there.