Canadians (PGY-1's): do we count as equals applying to US specialties

[gotrumpet]

Hi guys

Do you know if as Canadians, how do we compare to the IMG's and US applicants in the match to ophtho in the US?

I'm asking, because when I was emailing program directors, they didn't answer me directly and it was very frustrating.

I'd ask if Canadians were comparable to US applicants, and they would give out generic answers like check our website, or check with ACGME, or answer with "foreign medical graduates" need to be very competitive.

But I know that Canadians are often put in a different category from IMG's.

Thanks

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[gotrumpet]

bump, please advise

thanks

 

[Jamesmtl]

I'm pretty sure that we are equal with those educated in the US.

 

[deschutes]

Speaking across specialties, training credentials are pretty much equal. It's the immigration paperwork for the residency program sponsoring your J-1 or H-1 that is more likely to be a factor. Something about a letter from your country of legal residence, in this case Health Canada. I think your best bet would be to talk to someone who has done it.

 

[gotrumpet]

how do we find out if a Canadian med school we graduated from, is equal to one in the US?

Is there a website to check? I couldn't find such info on the ACGME website but I think that website is for US schools only? Not too sure.

 

[deschutes]

ACGME is for the accreditation of graduate medical education programs i.e. residencies and fellowships.

As long as your school is LCME-accredited (and I believe all the Canadian schools are, though I am not sure if another set of rules governs the Quebec schools), for education credentials, you are on par with the LCME-accredited schools in the US.

 

[MacGyver]

Whats up with the double standard here? Canadian grads have free access to american residencies, but american grads have essentially no shot at canadian slots.

what a load of BS

 

[gotrumpet]

Whats up with the double standard here? Canadian grads have free access to american residencies, but american grads have essentially no shot at canadian slots.

what a load of BS

What are you talking about? I personally know Americans who are doing residency in Canada right now.

In fact, Canadian grads are at a disadvantage to their own match starting this year.

Get your facts right.

 

[deschutes]

Whats up with the double standard here? Canadian grads have free access to american residencies, but american grads have essentially no shot at canadian slots.

what a load of BS

"Free" is relative.
It works similarly in both directions across the border. Take 2 sets of national licensing exams and deal with the match and immigration paperwork in time to meet tight deadlines.

The perception of easier access is in part due to the numbers.

In 2003, CaRMS involved 13 schools, 1317 positions and 1231 applicants.

In 2003, the NRMP enrolled 3,719 programs in the match, which altogether offered 23,365 positions. A total of 31,004 applicants participated in the Match. Of those, 15,101 were 2003 graduates of accredited U.S. medical schools and 15,903 were Independent Applicants.

So Canadian IMGs fare slightly better than non-Canadian IMGs in applying to the US residencies, but like I said previously, immigration paperwork is a factor - all other things being equal between an IMG and an AMG wanting the same US Match spot, it's hard to imagine that a US program would not pick the AMG. It's only natural.

 

[bulgethetwine]

What are you talking about? I personally know Americans who are doing residency in Canada right now.

In fact, Canadian grads are at a disadvantage to their own match starting this year.

Get your facts right.

Canadian grads at "a disadvantage"?

PUH-LEEEZE.

You need to get YOUR facts straight. If (and a big if) they actually open up the first round of the Canadian match to IMGs, only THEN will the Canadian grads take a step back and be NOW EQUIVALENT with the U.S. system. As it stands now, the Canadian grads have an unfair monopoly on training positions -- when others are qualified and legally entitled to work in Canada but shunned because they trained abroad.

The U.S. system is the fairest in the world - positions based on merit and not an overly protective, coddling atmosphere designed to give even the weakest Canadian grads a residency position.

 

[trustwomen]

The U.S. system is the fairest in the world - positions based on merit and not an overly protective, coddling atmosphere designed to give even the weakest Canadian grads a residency position.

Query: Would the U.S. system still be so open if they had a nearly 1:1 ratio of spots to native grads, as Canada has, instead of only 2/3 the amount of native grads needed to fill all their spots? They have over 8000 spots left unfilled after all their "weakest" grads get residency positions. We have what, a couple of hundred? They do not face the prospect of their own grads not matching anywhere and not being able to practice medicine as a consequence. We do. Furthermore, our grads who do not match here will simply go match in the States (where they do have an advantage over non-LCME grads) and will probably never return.

Sure, their system is "fairer", because it can afford to be. If that changed, you'd see their system change too, and drastically.

 

[bulgethetwine]

Query: Would the U.S. system still be so open if they had a nearly 1:1 ratio of spots to native grads, as Canada has, instead of only 2/3 the amount of native grads needed to fill all their spots? They have over 8000 spots left unfilled after all their "weakest" grads get residency positions. We have what, a couple of hundred? They do not face the prospect of their own grads not matching anywhere and not being able to practice medicine as a consequence. We do. Furthermore, our grads who do not match here will simply go match in the States (where they do have an advantage over non-LCME grads) and will probably never return.

Sure, their system is "fairer", because it can afford to be. If that changed, you'd see their system change too, and drastically.

Well, that is certainly a point that hasn't escaped my attention. But that really exposes yet another flaw with the Canadian system -- that there simply aren't enough residency spots. But this is at least partly being remedied - opening up the first round is occuring with a simultanous creation of more residency spots such that there will be a 20% oversupply. And I hasten to point out that the Canadian system has not always been like this -- 15 years ago the country was STILL closed to IMGs and there were ample extra spots to go around (more than 20%). And the medical students were crying their eyes out then, too.

One of the problems is the persistent 'cry wolf' attitude at the medical school level in Canada. Current medical students take a "me first" attitude and lobby to NOT open up the match because they are paranoid that they won't get into the residency of their choice. They don't realize how much of a monopoly they have had for so long!

Medical students do NOT have perspective on the big picture. They have little or no perspective on their real chances of getting a residency in their desired location/specialty; As such, they always are fighting fear of failure issues and fear that any move that might open up the match to more candidates -- even if it is good for the country in the long run -- might compromise their residency choice.

In reality, only the weakest residents will be forced to choose a residency that maybe they didn't intend to -- and even then they will still get one.

Residency spots should be based on merit, and the protective, monopolistic status quo in Canada is about to go by the wayside.

Good riddance.