Can any Michigan State students talk about the curriculum

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whateverforever

Edinburgh c/o 2016 dropout, WSU c/o 2027
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As I understand, it looks like each class is only a few weeks long, and each class focuses on reigon/system rather than being arranged by subject.

Can any current students tell me some pros and cons of learning this way? What kind of material would one class typically cover? Is there anything else unique about MSU's structure? Do you feel adequately prepared? Are you able to take any electives? Anything else?

Thanks & go green!

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Currently procrastinating statistics so I will do my best to answer your questions! (I'm currently a grad student - you don't have to take statistics as a vet student lol) .. relevant background: I'm a dual degree student and so I've only completed the first 2 years of the DVM curriculum and won't be returning until I'm done with graduate school. that said, if you're class of 2027, I may be joining your class during your 3rd year! PLEASE keep in mind that this is MY experience and that it's far from the same for everyone. also, I was a member of the class whose entire first year was online (meaning anatomy labs online....lol). other classes will have what I believe will be a vastly different experience because they will have had their first year in person.

Can any current students tell me some pros and cons of learning this way?
The pros and cons are going to vary from person to person based on your learning style. For me, the biggest pro is getting to learn the material on my own - this isn't a pro for everyone, but it's ultimately the crux of the curriculum. that said, a pretty big con for me is that I did not have to attend classes to do well on quizzes/exams. I learned all of the material on my own and watched class recordings after the fact and did just fine. you're not "supposed" to skip class obviously, but you're ultimately an adult and no one can really tell you what to do, lol. I attended most labs, but frankly 8 out of 10 times they were not overly helpful for me. I call those things cons because when I entered vet school, I signed up for something that would challenge me, but I can't say that I was very challenged in the first 2 years. I imagine things will be more engaging for me in the 3rd and 4th years because they involve hands-on skills (surgery and associated skills) and the application of classroom material. there will be an additional layer of challenge for me in 3rd/4th years, I think, because I will have been out of the DVM curriculum for 3+ years, so I will need to get reaccustomed to the clinical side of things and relearn some stuff.

What kind of material would one class typically cover?
Classes are divided into systems - for example, nervous system, cardiovascular system, cutaneous system. These classes are usually 3 weeks long, but there are a few that are only 2 weeks. They go by quickly as I'm sure you can imagine. First year classes are "normal" in-depth anatomy & physiology, second year classes are "abnormal." In the first week of first year classes, there's a lot of background information, cellular/molecular basis of things that will help you understand the material. it's a bit hard to understand "normal" without giving some aspects of abnormal, so you will get a bit of disease examples in first year to understand how systems function normally. second year is focused on disease processes. that said, you will get a few days of "normal" review in your second year classes - in MY experience, I didn't need to remember a lot from first year to do well in the second year courses. second year is a whole lot denser than first year, but it's doable. the didactic curriculum is certainly not inclusive of everything you'll need to know as a vet, but it's largely inclusive of everything you'll need to know for the NAVLE (as I've gathered from taking a NAVLE review class and from practice questions).

Is there anything else unique about MSU's structure?
you MUST be self-motivated. in-person/virtual classes are discussions based on the preparation ("prep") material assigned to you the night before (although it's usually available to you at least a few days in advance). if you want to know what's going on in class, you NEED to do your prep work. prep work can involve a series of lectures to listen to/watch, papers to read, textbook chapters, etc. those are usually accompanied by a short quiz that's due the morning before class. that said, the prep lectures are usually plenty, and although textbook chapters are assigned, in MY experience they haven't been necessary to understand the material and can USUALLY be treated more as supplementary material that you can read if you are curious to dive deeper into the topic. professors will also often include material actually marked as supplementary for your perusal.

Do you feel adequately prepared?
Can't say either way given my circumstances. My understanding is that the class of 2022 (inaugural class of the new curriculum) had around 20 students (out of ~115) fail the NAVLE last year during their first (fall/winter) go, with the pass rate increasing significantly after their second (spring) try. My understanding is also that this may have been across the board at other vet schools because of COVID interrupting their earlier studies - don't know that for a fact, but it's what we'd been told by administration.

Are you able to take any electives? Anything else?
No electives in the didactic curriculum. Once you reach clinics, you are able to customize your schedule to a certain extent. There are required, on-campus rotations, and there are several blocks with which you can either choose option on-campus rotations or do externships. I can't speak to 3rd or 4th year curriculum much, although I'm sure my former classmates and upperclassmen who have remained in the DVM curriculum would be happy to provide information.

Feel free to ask follow up questions! I may not get to them right away but will respond when I can. best of luck!
 
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@sheltermed thanks for the response! So I don't actually know anything about their curriculum I just saw schedule of classes posted on the CVM website and thought it was weird. So... A couple more questions if you don't mind just to make sure I'm following you:

Any idea why they chanced the structure of the classes?

So you get assigned homework every single day to review for the following days class? Is it like a situation where I literally have to study every night to take my daily quiz kind of thing, or can I dedicate a few nights a week + a Sunday to doing homework? (not in terms of difficulty but in terms of frequency of tests/quizzes/assignments)

Also it sounds like attendance is not mandatory and classes are recorded. l'm a big time textbook learner/independent learner, I'm not really a "participate in class" kind of person. Quite frankly it isn't my learning style and my time is usually better spent learning on my own. It sounds like we may be similar...
 
Any idea why they chanced the structure of the classes?

I don't actually know this for a fact, but my opinion is for several reasons. One, to make the learning experience more "modern" and interactive. It's quite similar to case-based learning (CBL), but it isn't called that. I think we differ from CBL in that, at least how it works at a school like Cornell (I think), classes are broken into small groups and are expected to discuss amongst each other, whereas we meet in a group of either the entire class or half of the class - so not everyone is required to contribute. Far from it, actually. Another reason is to be more inclusive and equitable in the learning environment, or leveling the playing field, so to speak. Again, I'm not sure why they actually did it - I'm not sure if the idea was to make the curriculum less challenging, but I certainly believe the old curriculum (where classes were largely lecture based and systems courses were taken at once instead of in short blocks) was much more difficult.

So you get assigned homework every single day to review for the following days class? Is it like a situation where I literally have to study every night to take my daily quiz kind of thing, or can I dedicate a few nights a week + a Sunday to doing homework? (not in terms of difficulty but in terms of frequency of tests/quizzes/assignments)

Homework pretty much every night, sorry. You can CTRL+F the prep quizzes and save the actual studying for later, which is often what I would do, so in my case I didn't do homework every night. But if you actually want to go to class and be prepared for the discussion, you will need to study every night to complete your quizzes. There will be an exam essentially every week, generally Fridays but this can vary by class.

Also it sounds like attendance is not mandatory and classes are recorded

Attendance is absolutely mandatory, but I took it as more of a suggestion than a requirement. That's just me. I certainly did a little better when I actually went to class. Classes are indeed recorded but if you're looking to get the most out of your experience, the most bang out of your buck - go to class. I'm not typically a participant either but being there and thinking about the questions posed helped. However, I can say the same for listening to the recordings. Up to you really. But attendance IS mandatory.
 
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@sheltermed thanks so much for taking the time to respond!

This is really a bummer to hear. I had decided MSU was my #1 out of state choice because I grew up there and am a former Spartan, but this really sounds like it's not for me. I have ADHD, so my brain decides on its own when it's time to hyperfocus and get work done. It has no absolutely respect for class times or other peoples learning lol.

I wish they told you more about the actual school things in the info sessions, but they're always just about the application process... There are so many things you have to research before applying, it's so hard to make sure you do your due diligence on every single thing. Anyway, thanks again I really appreciate your perspective.
 
@sheltermed
I have no doubt that it's a quality education and that I would do fine but social learning/mandatory attendance isn't how I *want* to learn. For me personally, it just doesn't feel like a good use of my time.

I guess I'm a little confused when you say that you didn't go to class, but that class was mandatory. I'm not totally sure what that means.
 
I guess I'm a little confused when you say that you didn't go to class, but that class was mandatory. I'm not totally sure what that means.
Oh! Lol. It means class is technically mandatory but I essentially never went. I wasn't going to come on here and encourage you to "break the rules" if you were to attend MSU, but it's what I did. I didn't need to go to excel. But it's different person to person. And you will likely find that class is technically mandatory probably everywhere.
 
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@sheltermed oh gotcha okay, thank you that definitely clarifies things. I chose to do my masters online because it suits me better and I really preferred that to my in person undergrad where I ended up skipping most of my classes and if I was lucky they were recorded, otherwise I just figured things out on my own.

Washington is supposedly totally okay with students just taking a hybrid approach and watching all their online lectures and only attending the labs (thank god because it's my in state school) vs like Arizona who uses the flipped classroom model and requires you to come in and I have heard Mississippi makes you swipe your student ID every day (could be a rumor, idk.) But it sounds like I could make MSU work for me. :)
 
Current 1st year. I do like that the classes are split up into systems cause it allows me to focus in on a particular topic and not feel overwhelmed. I spend a LOT of time at my desk doing homework because of the flipped classroom model. Attendance is mandatory but like if you didn't go you'd just forfeit participation/iclicker points which isn't a big part of the grade and doesn't even happen every day. Tho if you know there will be group work or something in class you can always look ahead at the schedule and try and be present for that. Many labs are mandatory tho but we don't have labs everyday.
 
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Oh! Lol. It means class is technically mandatory but I essentially never went. I wasn't going to come on here and encourage you to "break the rules" if you were to attend MSU, but it's what I did. I didn't need to go to excel. But it's different person to person. And you will likely find that class is technically mandatory probably everywhere.
I'm just curious about the attendance thing, haha. If attendance is mandatory did you get in trouble or anything?
 
I'm just curious about the attendance thing, haha. If attendance is mandatory did you get in trouble or anything?
No, but that doesn't mean other people wouldn't! Proceed at your own risk :)
 
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