Can an MD function as a PA?

[16846]

Can an MD function as a PA in a hospital setting? I am currently in medical school and wish to complete the MD degree but think I want to function as a PA rather than as a physician. Can anyone steer me towards/supply some information regarding this topic, or other MD's that have become PA's etc...?

Furthermore, I found this bit of information:

RHODE ISLAND

Qualifications: Graduation from accredited PA program and NCCPA examination. No one holding medical degree is eligible.

I assume by the qualification mentioned above that I'm not the first one to consider this possibility as I don't believe they would specifically exclude MD's unless MD's used to be able/attempted to function as PA's in that state, or am I wrong in my interpretation?

Any information is greatly appreciated as I haven't been able to come up with any information regarding my queries despite a rather extensive amount of research.

Mike

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[ependymoma]

Why would you want to do this? To me, it would feel like being a medical student or an intern forever.

Take care

 

[deleted6669]

to work as a pa you must go to pa school and pass the pa boards. there is no way around it. md/do folk can not do it without paying their dues just as a pa could not practice as a nurse or paramedic without the specific training. that's just the way it is.....

 

[16846]

Why do they bother mentioning MD's in the qualifications if they aren't capable of becoming a PA without completing a PA program? Do they mean if you already have an MD, then complete a PA program, and sit for the NCCPA examination, you still aren't capable of becoming a PA in that state?

Furthermore, would you get a decent amount of credit if you entered into a PA program and already have your MD? As there are similarities between the two programs.

Mike

 

[Gradient Echo]

I dont understand this question. As an MD you can do everything that a PA can do, except you dont require supervision.

Are you talking about graduating from med school and not doing residency?

 

[Teufelhunden]

Exactly. There is absoultey NOTHING a PA can do that an MD/DO can't do.

 

[deleted6669]

I believe the ad you read meant an unemployed md could not apply for the position. an md who went to pa school and passes the boards could function as a pa because they would be one. md's who go to pa school get no advanced standing and vis versa. the programs have some similarities.the first year of pa school is essentially a conbination of some of the first and second year courses. the second year of pa school is exactly the same as the 3rd year of med school. at some places the pa students take courses alongside the medstudents and do the same rotations at the same places. an md/do program covers the full spectrum of current medical practice in detail while a pa program concentrates on primary care practice and has minimal exposure to biochemistry, embryology, etc
there would be no reason for a u.s. md/do graduate to apply for pa school unless they had failed their boards repeatedly and wanted to try another route to medical practice.the state of florida allowed fmg's to take their state pa exam for a few years( none ever passed), but that avenue no longer exists. to the op: if you want to be a well educated pa go to pa school and then do a residency( see www.appap.org), don't go the md/do route. if you want to be a doc then commit to that. you can't do both at the same time.good luck.

 

[hospPA]

This statement is incorrect. One is granted an MD upon graduating from medical school. One who graduates from medical school can only be a resident (or intern) as far as practicing medicine goes. They cannot hang up a shingle and practice medicine without completing a residency. They also cannot bill for their services performed. They are not licensed. PA's are licensed to practice medicine under the supervision of a physician.
Your statement would be correct if you said ".....that a residency trained (or licensed) physician can't do."
Pat

 

[eddieberetta]

To clarify...in most states, after passing step 3 MDs are eligible for state licensure and can then practice medicine unsupervised. In some states, you can sit step 3 after med school; in most you muse compete one internship/residency year to sit the step 3. Once you are a diplomat of the NBME (passed s1-3) you are fully eligible for state licensure.

In fact, completion of a residency and sitting of specialty boards is "voluntary" I put it in quotes because most insurers will not pay you for specialist procedures (i.e. surgery, MRI reads) unless you are board certified (or eligible) to the relevent "voluntary" board. However, they will reimburse general medicine type stuff (i.e. family MD type billings) for all licensed MD/DO. This is in contrast to Canada where Family MDs must be boarded in Family, surgeons in surgery etc...

In summary, in the US once you have state licensure (which usually means step1-3 +/- one year of internship) you are a licensed physician and can practice general medicine and actually have a lot of leeway to determine your scope of practice. In addition to working independently, you could supervise PA/NPs under you.

Hence, there is no reason whatever for an MD/DO to pursue PA training. In the worst case scenario, you would have to do one year of residency to have full "generalist" practicing rights in any state, something which is unobtainable for a PA.

 

[Werry]

As a 3rd year medcial student who works with PA students, 2nd year of PA school is NOT the exact same thing as 3rd year of med school. The rotations are run by different people, the PA students have much less responsibilites (no ppt presentations, no write ups), and their rotations are shorter (they have more in the year like ER which med students don't have 3rd year), and they don't do key parts of the rotations. During my Peds rotation the PA students didn't do inpatient service, by far the toughest part of the rotation. They also did not do nearly as many subspecialty clinics. The expectation level for the PA and MD students are not comparable either. It is not just this rotation or just my school that is like this. I have friends at other schools who agree. Maybe some programs are different, but none that I've encountered or heard of. Hope that clears things up.

 

[deleted6669]

Werry- I respectfully disagree. I can only speak to what happened at my program. we were scheduled with the same preceptors at the same places with the same requirements. I did inpatient rotations. I gave pt presentations. I did admission h+p's and took call q2 on my surgery rotation. I started central lines, intubated pts, did lp's, took acls/atls/pals/nals, etc
my 2nd year was as follows:6 five week rotations in
surgery-general/trauma/vascular
inpatient internal medicine/infectious dz
obgyn( and yes, I did deliveries and 1st assisted c-sections+ lots of clinic)
emergency medicine-trauma ctr
inpatient psych
pediatrics
followed by 2 three month preceptorships:
family medicine( had my own pt panel)
emergency medicine(elective)
plus 1 week for xmas and 1 week for spring break.
this is 56 weeks, the length of our "2nd year".

 

[PACtoDOC]

Werry,
I won't even bother respectfully disagreeing with you like EMED!! You are just flat out wrong. How the hell can you judge the entire PA profession on your school and the "ones your friends go to"? You sound like most any other med student that thinks PA's are below them. At my PA school, we were literally turned over to the med school for our second year, and we did the same damn things they did. And since I am probably the only person on this forum who has been to PA school and am in med school, let me again tell you that you are wrong. PA students in some places might get off easier, but in some places med students get off easier. Don't make a blanket judgment that the scope of PA learning is so much beneath what you are learning....because it isn't. We actually have quite a few PA's at my medical school, in all years, and why do you think they blow the doors off the boards and get the best residencies? I guess it is because they are underqualified and undertrained and they got lucky right?

 

[Werry]

EMED, by your schedule as a PA student is much less per roation than most med students do. 5 weeks in Medicine? Most schools do 8-12 (mine is 12). Peds is usally 6-8 weeks, Surgery is 8 wks, Psych is 6 wks, OB is 6 wks, Neuro is 4 (which you don't even have listed). Family is 4 weeks, 6 weeks, or 12 depending on where you go. ER experience is in Peds, Surgery, Medicine, as well as an elective in 4th year. I never heard of a med school with 5 weeks of med, peds, OB, or Surgery. As far as I know all med schools have a Neurology rotation, which yours didn't seem to have. I never made the general statement that "all PA programs are like this," just the ones that I've heard of. I left the possibility open to the fact that others could be different...so don't jump on me for something I didn't say. Maybe MCP Hanneman (if I remember that's where you went to PA school EMED) way back in the day had those few weeks per med school rotation, but I haven't heard anything as such. Just my experience and I presented what I said as such. If anything the statement saying the 2nd year PA and 3rd year med school are exactly the same is the blanket statement. My personal experience, by going to med school in NYC, and seeing several PA programs in person, and from what I've heard second hand from others across the country is contrary to EMED's blanket statement. That's all I was saying. I never made any judgment about the entire profession. I never doubt that you did things such as put in lines and did LP's, anyone can be taught to do that. I'm not here bashing PA's, just trying to relate my experience and disagreement.

 

[deleted6669]

fair enough.not here to start a war, just to state that the training has more in common than not. fyi, the hahnemann 3rd year med students at the time did 4 week long rotations. my family med rotation was fp/im so I ended up with 17 weeks of medicine.but you are correct, we did not do a neuro rotation. peace-e

 

[PACtoDOC]

Werry,

My medical school does not have a required rotation in Neuro. In fact, across the country, there are not many schools that have required Neuro rotations. Again this must just be how they do things where you are. The required rotations have shelf exams and I have never heard of a Neuro Shelf exam.....God I hope there isn't one!!! LOL

Matt

 

[12R34Y]

PACtoDOC

I think that is a pretty broad generalization that most schools don't have neuro rotation required.

My school requires neuro/psych (4 weeks of each) and most of the other schools that I'm familiar with in the midwest also require it. Maybe there is just huge variability.

later

 

[Werry]

I have the Neuro shelf next Friday!

 

[PACtoDOC]

Guess I will know more about what we do here next year in 3rd year. I know we have a required Psych rotation but I have not heard of us having a required Neuro rotation. Do all MD students take the Neuro Shelf? Just wondering.

 

[Werry]

Some schools have neuropsych where they do both for 4 weeks (each, 8 weeks total). My school has 6 wks of Psych and 4 of Neuro. Neuro is part of Step 2 and I think most schools usually alot 4 weeks to it.