Can a cardiothoracic surgeon have a good work/life balance?

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alpha2716

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As a cardiac surgeon will I be able to spend time with my family working in a hospital. I would like to have weekends off or most of them. I would also like to be able to take a 1 or 2 week vacation. I want to be able to go to my children's honors program or baseball game. I want to be a doctor so don't tell me I should get into something else. Should I go private. I've heard that private practice doctors can basically make there schedules or they can take what cases they want. Or can I maintain all these wants in a hospital work environment. I know if I have a private practice I won't just have to do anything or I might not have every weekend off and it's gonna be a little rough at the beginning. Give it to me straight.

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As a cardiac surgeon will I be able to spend time with my family working in a hospital. I would like to have weekends off or most of them. I would also like to be able to take a 1 or 2 week vacation. I want to be able to go to my children's honors program or baseball game. I want to be a doctor so don't tell me I should get into something else. Should I go private. I've heard that private practice doctors can basically make there schedules or they can take what cases they want. Or can I maintain all these wants in a hospital work environment. I know if I have a private practice I won't just have to do anything or I might not have every weekend off and it's gonna be a little rough at the beginning. Give it to me straight.

Yes. It is possible to have weekends off and take vacation, but as a general rule cardiac surgery is not consider lifestyle friendly. If you join a larger practice, you can rotate weekend call to round on the patients, do emergent cases, see consults, etc.

Regarding case selectivity, you have to develop a relationship with the referring cardiologists. The more often you tell your referring doctors - private practice or university - that you won't operate, the less likely they will refer. Having said that, you can be less aggressive in the community and focus on the lower-risk CABGs and AVRs. The high risk CABGs, thoracos, arches, VADs, etc. can all go to the university. At least that's what I've seen done.

What do you like about cardiac surgery?
 
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As is true with most surgical specialities..
Lifestyle, Salary, Location. You can pick two out of three but almost no one gets all three.
 
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What do you like about cardiac surgery?
What would be the wrong reasons to go for cardiac surgery?

I would like to answer your question even though it was meant for someone else. lol
For me, the interest of surgery came to into my head after watching a heart transplant surgery video. I like how cardiac surgeons make lifesaving/life-changing surgeries. The heart and lungs are the most important organs we have (brain too) that give us life and their anatomy and physiology interest me a lot. I like it how when surgeries go well and you get thanked by the family and the patient for your hard work (regardless of surgical specialty). Anyways, I also have other interest in other surgical specialties like, Orthopedics and Plastics, but I will keep my mind open for now. :thumbup:

What do you think?:thinking:
 
What would be the wrong reasons to go for cardiac surgery?

I would like to answer your question even though it was meant for someone else. lol
For me, the interest of surgery came to into my head after watching a heart transplant surgery video. I like how cardiac surgeons make lifesaving/life-changing surgeries. The heart and lungs are the most important organs we have (brain too) that give us life and their anatomy and physiology interest me a lot. I like it how when surgeries go well and you get thanked by the family and the patient for your hard work (regardless of surgical specialty). Anyways, I also have other interest in other surgical specialties like, Orthopedics and Plastics, but I will keep my mind open for now. :thumbup:

What do you think?:thinking:

I'm just a lowly intern, but I think you can have a little bit of work/life balance but you have to adjust your expectations.

I'm on cardiothoracic now, and one of the attendings I cover is part private practice/part academic, does 95% elective thoracic cases (bronchs, lobectomies, etc). He works at three hospitals, operating 4-5 days/wk in the morning and then clinic in the afternoon. Relies heavily on NPs to cover his patients. His days seem like 7a-5/6p, plus rounding on weekends. He splits call with 3 other docs. He takes trauma call for one week at a time every 4 weeks (which blows).

So I'm thinking he's got just about the most lifestyle balance you can have as a cardiothoracic surgeon. He still completed 10 years of brutal residency and fellowship, takes trauma call for a week at a time, covers emergency cardiac and thoracic cases, etc. And if something goes wrong, he's coming back in.
 
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I'm just a lowly intern, but I think you can have a little bit of work/life balance but you have to adjust your expectations.

I'm on cardiothoracic now, and one of the attendings I cover is part private practice/part academic, does 95% elective thoracic cases (bronchs, lobectomies, etc). He works at three hospitals, operating 4-5 days/wk in the morning and then clinic in the afternoon. Relies heavily on NPs to cover his patients. His days seem like 7a-5/6p, plus rounding on weekends. He splits call with 3 other docs. He takes trauma call for one week at a time every 4 weeks (which blows).

So I'm thinking he's got just about the most lifestyle balance you can have as a cardiothoracic surgeon. He still completed 10 years of brutal residency and fellowship, takes trauma call for a week at a time, covers emergency cardiac and thoracic cases, etc. And if something goes wrong, he's coming back in.
Thanks for the information, bud, but I think you meant to reply this to the OP. lol
 
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What would be the wrong reasons to go for cardiac surgery?

Money. Fame. Power. Those are the wrong reasons, but that applies to all of Medicine/Surgery.

I would like to answer your question even though it was meant for someone else. lol
For me, the interest of surgery came to into my head after watching a heart transplant surgery video. I like how cardiac surgeons make lifesaving/life-changing surgeries. The heart and lungs are the most important organs we have (brain too) that give us life and their anatomy and physiology interest me a lot. I like it how when surgeries go well and you get thanked by the family and the patient for your hard work (regardless of surgical specialty). Anyways, I also have other interest in other surgical specialties like, Orthopedics and Plastics, but I will keep my mind open for now. :thumbup:

What do you think?:thinking:

Ortho, plastics, and cardiac surgery are very different, and you should research them all thoroughly. For one, the technical demands are very different. Also, while ortho and plastics often affect quality of life, e.g. total knee or breast reconstruction, cardiac surgery more frequently deals with life and death. That's not for everyone.

Eh. I like cardiac surgery.

I'm just a lowly intern, but I think you can have a little bit of work/life balance but you have to adjust your expectations.

Like most of life, management of expectations is important.

I'm on cardiothoracic now, and one of the attendings I cover is part private practice/part academic, does 95% elective thoracic cases (bronchs, lobectomies, etc). He works at three hospitals, operating 4-5 days/wk in the morning and then clinic in the afternoon. Relies heavily on NPs to cover his patients. His days seem like 7a-5/6p, plus rounding on weekends. He splits call with 3 other docs. He takes trauma call for one week at a time every 4 weeks (which blows).

Well. To be fair, that is more of a general thoracic surgery service. General thoracic surgery is a field in itself, and the job market is quite good as I understand it.

So I'm thinking he's got just about the most lifestyle balance you can have as a cardiothoracic surgeon. He still completed 10 years of brutal residency and fellowship, takes trauma call for a week at a time, covers emergency cardiac and thoracic cases, etc. And if something goes wrong, he's coming back in.
 
Money. Fame. Power. Those are the wrong reasons, but that applies to all of Medicine/Surgery.

Ortho, plastics, and cardiac surgery are very different, and you should research them all thoroughly. For one, the technical demands are very different. Also, while ortho and plastics often affect quality of life, e.g. total knee or breast reconstruction, cardiac surgery more frequently deals with life and death. That's not for everyone.

Eh. I like cardiac surgery.
I would say I'm in it for the right reasons.

Yeah, I know they are all different specialties and some wouldn't really make sense why I would like all of them. Nevertheless, once I'm in medical school I will get to experience those specialties in depth and hopefully I can choose one lol.

I like plastic and reconstructive surgery because of the reconstruction part; you know helping out people with deformities or trauma patients who received facial lacerations or anywhere else in the body.

Orthopedics because I also like the musculoskeletal system, sports medicine, their surgeries are meant to relieve pain, and when I watch ortho vids I could see myself doing that.

Cardiac surgery hits home, though, emotionally that is (I know take my man card now). When I see those reality television shows about medicine (Boston Med, Hopkins, NY Med) and I see patients who have heart condition or they need a transplant and the outcome comes out good, I get excited about it. I feel like that's something I would love to do.
 
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I would say I'm in it for the right reasons.

Yeah, I know they are all different specialties and some wouldn't really make sense why I would like all of them. Nevertheless, once I'm in medical school I will get to experience those specialties in depth and hopefully I can choose one lol.

I like plastic and reconstructive surgery because of the reconstruction part; you know helping out people with deformities or trauma patients who received facial lacerations or anywhere else in the body.

Orthopedics because I also like the musculoskeletal system, sports medicine, their surgeries are meant to relieve pain, and when I watch ortho vids I could see myself doing that.

Cardiac surgery hits home, though, emotionally that is (I know take my man card now). When I see those reality television shows about medicine (Boston Med, Hopkins, NY Med) and I see patients who have heart condition or they need a transplant and the outcome comes out good, I get excited about it. I feel like that's something I would love to do.

Come back and tell us what you think after you've done surgery rotation.
 
As a cardiac surgeon will I be able to spend time with my family working in a hospital. I would like to have weekends off or most of them. I would also like to be able to take a 1 or 2 week vacation. I want to be able to go to my children's honors program or baseball game. I want to be a doctor so don't tell me I should get into something else. Should I go private. I've heard that private practice doctors can basically make there schedules or they can take what cases they want. Or can I maintain all these wants in a hospital work environment. I know if I have a private practice I won't just have to do anything or I might not have every weekend off and it's gonna be a little rough at the beginning. Give it to me straight.

If you have to ask the question....
 
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All jokes aside, I mainly want to help people with my hands, so surgery fits my criteria.

Do you hate your surgical residency? :thinking:

No Iove surgery. I would probably quit medicine if I couldn't be a surgeon. Intern year was horrible, but each year gets a bit better.

That being said, when I started medical school I was pretty sure I would hate surgery. I'm not a morning person and I was always kinda of a klutz. But I totally fell in love with it during third year rotation. I think it's a great field and it's pretty secure compared to other fields in medicine right now. You really don't have to worry about being outsourced or replaced by an NP or a PA. (The people who think that a mid level can do a "simple" operation like a lap chole, lap appy, or hernia have never done one or don't understand that here's no such thing as a simple case. (I'm a 4th year resident and have done hundreds and I still regularly get tough cases where I struggle and am thankful I have an attending to bail me out.)

In terms of CT, I absolutely love it, but the future of that field is not great. If you want to go into a field like that, CT attendings have told me that you better be willing to go anywhere in the country and be happy making as much as the average general surgeon. Don't expect your subspecialty training and extra years of training to earn you any more income.
 
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No Iove surgery. I would probably quit medicine if I couldn't be a surgeon. Intern year was horrible, but each year gets a bit better.

That being said, when I started medical school I was pretty sure I would hate surgery. I'm not a morning person and I was always kinda of a klutz. But I totally fell in love with it during third year rotation. I think it's a great field and it's pretty secure compared to other fields in medicine right now. You really don't have to worry about being outsourced or replaced by an NP or a PA. (The people who think that a mid level can do a "simple" operation like a lap chole, lap appy, or hernia have never done one or don't understand that here's no such thing as a simple case. (I'm a 4th year resident and have done hundreds and I still regularly get tough cases where I struggle and am thankful I have an attending to bail me out.)

In terms of CT, I absolutely love it, but the future of that field is not great. If you want to go into a field like that, CT attendings have told me that you better be willing to go anywhere in the country and be happy making as much as the average general surgeon. Don't expect your subspecialty training and extra years of training to earn you any more income.
I don't really care for the money. LOL I say that now, but maybe I will change my mind whenever I see how much I owe from loans. Yeah, I heard CT is not doing so good, I also have thought about looking into vascular surgery, but will see what happens in the future (on whatever specialty I choose). Are you thinking of doing a fellowship?
 
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I don't really care for the money. LOL I say that now, but maybe I will change my mind whenever I see my how much I owe from loans. Yeah, I heard CT is not doing so good, I also have thought about looking into vascular surgery, but will see what happens in the future (on whatever specialty I choose). Are you thinking of doing a fellowship?

It's not just the money, it's also the fact that the odds of you getting a good job in a major metropolitan area is slim. That's the biggest turn off for me. I don't think I could live anywhere that isn't on a coast.

Ya I was flirting with vascular for a bit, but I don't care for the endovascular stuff and that's most of what you'll be doing. I also don't care for feet or chronic wounds.

I'm looking at trauma/critical care, but I still can't decide.
 
It's not just the money, it's also the fact that the odds of you getting a good job in a major metropolitan area is slim. That's the biggest turn off for me. I don't think I could live anywhere that isn't on a coast.

Ya I was flirting with vascular for a bit, but I don't care for the endovascular stuff and that's most of what you'll be doing. I also don't care for feet or chronic wounds.

I'm looking at trauma/critical care, but I still can't decide.
Well that sucks. If I were to go into cardiac surgery my plan was to go for integrated CT residency then do a one year transplant fellowship. Most of the hospitals that do transplants are academic (they're mainly in metropolitan areas) so chances for a job are slim like you said. Well, hopefully things change in the future.

As a 4th year resident do you still get to rotate through different services?
 
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In terms of CT, I absolutely love it, but the future of that field is not great. If you want to go into a field like that, CT attendings have told me that you better be willing to go anywhere in the country and be happy making as much as the average general surgeon. Don't expect your subspecialty training and extra years of training to earn you any more income.

I'm really interested in this as I've gotten several different answers depending on who I talk to. Of course the interventional cards guys think this is likely to happen (and has already started to happen), but one of our newer CT faculty is fellowship trained in wire skills and does all the TAVR's with the cards guys. The 6 or 7 CT surgeons I've talked to at my institution don't think there will be an extreme downturn and there will always be a need for open cases. Your point about working in a major metro area is well taken, though. I've always loved CT and spent a large chunk of time on their service, but I'm scared about the future as well. One of the fellows told me he wished he did something else, but he was post-call that morning :laugh:
 
No Iove surgery. I would probably quit medicine if I couldn't be a surgeon. Intern year was horrible, but each year gets a bit better.

That being said, when I started medical school I was pretty sure I would hate surgery. I'm not a morning person and I was always kinda of a klutz. But I totally fell in love with it during third year rotation. I think it's a great field and it's pretty secure compared to other fields in medicine right now. You really don't have to worry about being outsourced or replaced by an NP or a PA. (The people who think that a mid level can do a "simple" operation like a lap chole, lap appy, or hernia have never done one or don't understand that here's no such thing as a simple case. (I'm a 4th year resident and have done hundreds and I still regularly get tough cases where I struggle and am thankful I have an attending to bail me out.)

Agree. Fortunately, cardiac surgery is not simple.

In terms of CT, I absolutely love it, but the future of that field is not great. If you want to go into a field like that, CT attendings have told me that you better be willing to go anywhere in the country and be happy making as much as the average general surgeon. Don't expect your subspecialty training and extra years of training to earn you any more income.

Disagree. CABG is starting to turn around, and PCIs are declining nationally. Check out the FREEDOM trial and 5y follow up on the SYNTAX trial. The referring cardiologists are listening. People keep coming up with better technology, but it never seems to beat the operation that just turned 50 years old (Dr. Kolessov in the USSR performed the first LIMA-LAD in 1964). Cardiac surgeons missed the boat on PCI, and that was a grave error. However, the ability to do a good coronary is still in demand and will be for the foreseeable future. Read the COURAGE trial. Stenting chronic stable angina doesn't improve survival, because it isn't the 90% concentric lesion that ruptures and kills you. It's the 40% eccentric lesion with a thin fibrous cap. Also, a significant proportion of coronary disease is a diffuse vasculopathy (e.g. diabetics, NSTEMI patients) rather than a single stentable lesion. This is more suited to a new conduit than stenting.

Is the future cardiac surgeon going to need wire skills? Absolutely. TEVAR and TAVR will need to be in the armamentarium of the future heart surgeon. These days with the S3 valve, TAVR no longer even requires a cutdown, so wire skills will be important. Having said that, TEVAR for anything other than symptomatic aneurysmal disease in a patient not eligible for an open operation, complicated type B dissection, and traumatic aortic injury (typically Vancouver III and IV) is unproven. Additionally, TAVR for anything other than high risk operable AVR and inoperable due to technical reasons (e.g. porcelain aorta) is of questionable benefit. High risk inoperable patients have many medical comorbidities. Will technology improve? Absolutely. Betting against science/technology is typically a losing game. Today's heart surgeons are adopting these technologies early.

On the one hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be an all-around utility player (horizontal integration): TEVAR, LVADs, port access mitrals, CABG. On the other hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be capable of crossing specialties to some extent(vertical integration): i.e. the aortic surgeon who is able to do the standard open AVR in addition to TAVR, valve-sparing aortic root replacements, TEVARs, total arches, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, type A dissections, and TAAAs.

Well that sucks. If I were to go into cardiac surgery my plan was to go for integrated CT residency then do a one year transplant fellowship. Most of the hospitals that do transplants are academic (they're mainly in metropolitan areas) so chances for a job are slim like you said. Well, hopefully things change in the future.

As a 4th year resident do you still get to rotate through different services?

More and more programs are integrating. It allows for more time to incorporate the other fields (CT radiology, Interventional cards, Vascular, IR, etc.) into the training and further allows the trainee to become a true cardiovascular specialist.

Transplant is no longer just a transplant fellowship. It's Mechanical Circulatory Support too. LVADs, paracorporeal/extracorporeal VADs, ECMO, etc. in addition to transplant (both heart and lung). The role of the LVAD is evolving as outcomes improve and $/QALY improves. The evidence is that Bridge-to-Transplant LVAD patients survive better than medically treated Status 1B patients on the waitlist.

I'm really interested in this as I've gotten several different answers depending on who I talk to. Of course the interventional cards guys think this is likely to happen (and has already started to happen), but one of our newer CT faculty is fellowship trained in wire skills and does all the TAVR's with the cards guys. The 6 or 7 CT surgeons I've talked to at my institution don't think there will be an extreme downturn and there will always be a need for open cases. Your point about working in a major metro area is well taken, though. I've always loved CT and spent a large chunk of time on their service, but I'm scared about the future as well. One of the fellows told me he wished he did something else, but he was post-call that morning :laugh:

Cardiac surgery can be painful: the patients are often sick, and the operations are tricky. However, there will always be a need for a surgeon.
 
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Disagree. CABG is starting to turn around, and PCIs are declining nationally. Check out the FREEDOM trial and 5y follow up on the SYNTAX trial. The referring cardiologists are listening. People keep coming up with better technology, but it never seems to beat the operation that just turned 50 years old (Dr. Kolessov in the USSR performed the first LIMA-LAD in 1964). Cardiac surgeons missed the boat on PCI, and that was a grave error. However, the ability to do a good coronary is still in demand and will be for the foreseeable future. Read the COURAGE trial. Stenting chronic stable angina doesn't improve survival, because it isn't the 90% concentric lesion that ruptures and kills you. It's the 40% eccentric lesion with a thin fibrous cap. Also, a significant proportion of coronary disease is a diffuse vasculopathy (e.g. diabetics, NSTEMI patients) rather than a single stentable lesion. This is more suited to a new conduit than stenting.

Is the future cardiac surgeon going to need wire skills? Absolutely. TEVAR and TAVR will need to be in the armamentarium of the future heart surgeon. These days with the S3 valve, TAVR no longer even requires a cutdown, so wire skills will be important. Having said that, TEVAR for anything other than symptomatic aneurysmal disease in a patient not eligible for an open operation, complicated type B dissection, and traumatic aortic injury (typically Vancouver III and IV) is unproven. Additionally, TAVR for anything other than high risk operable AVR and inoperable due to technical reasons (e.g. porcelain aorta) is of questionable benefit. High risk inoperable patients have many medical comorbidities. Will technology improve? Absolutely. Betting against science/technology is typically a losing game. Today's heart surgeons are adopting these technologies early.

On the one hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be an all-around utility player (horizontal integration): TEVAR, LVADs, port access mitrals, CABG. On the other hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be capable of crossing specialties to some extent(vertical integration): i.e. the aortic surgeon who is able to do the standard open AVR in addition to TAVR, valve-sparing aortic root replacements, TEVARs, total arches, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, type A dissections, and TAAAs.

Transplant is no longer just a transplant fellowship. It's Mechanical Circulatory Support too. LVADs, paracorporeal/extracorporeal VADs, ECMO, etc. in addition to transplant (both heart and lung). The role of the LVAD is evolving as outcomes improve and $/QALY improves. The evidence is that Bridge-to-Transplant LVAD patients survive better than medically treated Status 1B patients on the waitlist.

Completely agree with the above, especially the role of mechanical circulatory support. We are a high volume VAD center and have seen much success (short and long term) with these devices. There are things coming down the pipeline that are smaller, safer and easier to implant. No doubt the future cardiac surgeon will need to adapt. Unfortunately the long term outcomes of the integrated programs aren't available yet as the first class graduated from Stanford only a few years ago.
 
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Agree. Fortunately, cardiac surgery is not simple.



Read the COURAGE trial. Stenting chronic stable angina doesn't improve survival, because it isn't the 90% concentric lesion that ruptures and kills you. It's the 40% eccentric lesion with a thin fibrous cap. Also, a significant proportion of coronary disease is a diffuse vasculopathy (e.g. diabetics, NSTEMI patients) rather than a single stentable lesion. This is more suited to a new conduit than stenting.

Is the future cardiac surgeon going to need wire skills? Absolutely. TEVAR and TAVR will need to be in the armamentarium of the future heart surgeon. These days with the S3 valve, TAVR no longer even requires a cutdown, so wire skills will be important. Having said that, TEVAR for anything other than symptomatic aneurysmal disease in a patient not eligible for an open operation, complicated type B dissection, and traumatic aortic injury (typically Vancouver III and IV) is unproven. Additionally, TAVR for anything other than high risk operable AVR and inoperable due to technical reasons (e.g. porcelain aorta) is of questionable benefit. High risk inoperable patients have many medical comorbidities. Will technology improve? Absolutely. Betting against science/technology is typically a losing game. Today's heart surgeons are adopting these technologies early.

On the one hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be an all-around utility player (horizontal integration): TEVAR, LVADs, port access mitrals, CABG. On the other hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be capable of crossing specialties to some extent(vertical integration): i.e. the aortic surgeon who is able to do the standard open AVR in addition to TAVR, valve-sparing aortic root replacements, TEVARs, total arches, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, type A dissections, and TAAAs.


More and more programs are integrating. It allows for more time to incorporate the other fields (CT radiology, Interventional cards, Vascular, IR, etc.) into the training and further allows the trainee to become a true cardiovascular specialist.

Transplant is no longer just a transplant fellowship. It's Mechanical Circulatory Support too. LVADs, paracorporeal/extracorporeal VADs, ECMO, etc. in addition to transplant (both heart and lung). The role of the LVAD is evolving as outcomes improve and $/QALY improves. The evidence is that Bridge-to-Transplant LVAD patients survive better than medically treated Status 1B patients on the waitlist.

As a doctor, and more importantly, as an orthopedic surgery resident, I have ZERO idea what the hell you just said. I am sure it was well thought-out and insightful, but I am utterly clueless to what that all means. Are TEVARs those sandals we worse in the 90's with velco straps? How far we have come from since medical school. I am glad there are people out there like you who know (and care) about all of this. Much love and respect for my other surgical colleagues.

As a doctor, and more importantly, as an orthopedic surgery resident, I could not agree more with the statement below...

However, there will always be a need for a surgeon.
 
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I would say I'm in it for the right reasons.

Yeah, I know they are all different specialties and some wouldn't really make sense why I would like all of them. Nevertheless, once I'm in medical school I will get to experience those specialties in depth and hopefully I can choose one lol.

I like plastic and reconstructive surgery because of the reconstruction part; you know helping out people with deformities or trauma patients who received facial lacerations or anywhere else in the body.

Orthopedics because I also like the musculoskeletal system, sports medicine, their surgeries are meant to relieve pain, and when I watch ortho vids I could see myself doing that.

Cardiac surgery hits home, though, emotionally that is (I know take my man card now). When I see those reality television shows about medicine (Boston Med, Hopkins, NY Med) and I see patients who have heart condition or they need a transplant and the outcome comes out good, I get excited about it. I feel like that's something I would love to do.
I'll meet you on the other side of the ROAD for lunch.
 
I don't really care for the money. LOL I say that now, but maybe I will change my mind whenever I see how much I owe from loans. Yeah, I heard CT is not doing so good, I also have thought about looking into vascular surgery, but will see what happens in the future (on whatever specialty I choose). Are you thinking of doing a fellowship?
:lol::lol::lol:
 
I'm just a lowly intern, but I think you can have a little bit of work/life balance but you have to adjust your expectations.

I'm on cardiothoracic now, and one of the attendings I cover is part private practice/part academic, does 95% elective thoracic cases (bronchs, lobectomies, etc). He works at three hospitals, operating 4-5 days/wk in the morning and then clinic in the afternoon. Relies heavily on NPs to cover his patients. His days seem like 7a-5/6p, plus rounding on weekends. He splits call with 3 other docs. He takes trauma call for one week at a time every 4 weeks (which blows).

So I'm thinking he's got just about the most lifestyle balance you can have as a cardiothoracic surgeon. He still completed 10 years of brutal residency and fellowship, takes trauma call for a week at a time, covers emergency cardiac and thoracic cases, etc. And if something goes wrong, he's coming back in.
This is a great synopsis of the lifestyle of a CT surgeon. Anyone who is asking this question is probably not best suited for this field. If you want more lifestyle control after residency while still being a surgeon, I think ophtho, ENT, uro and ortho (joints/sports/hand) are far better options than CT surgery. An elective surgery in CT is kind of an oxymoron.

To compare, the typical ortho joints daily schedule is about 7am to 5pm with general call typically q5-7 depending on size of practice and very few emergencies requiring a trip back to the hospital. The sports and hand guys don't even have inpatients.
 
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More and more programs are integrating. It allows for more time to incorporate the other fields (CT radiology, Interventional cards, Vascular, IR, etc.) into the training and further allows the trainee to become a true cardiovascular specialist.
That is awesome!

Transplant is no longer just a transplant fellowship. It's Mechanical Circulatory Support too. LVADs, paracorporeal/extracorporeal VADs, ECMO, etc. in addition to transplant (both heart and lung). The role of the LVAD is evolving as outcomes improve and $/QALY improves. The evidence is that Bridge-to-Transplant LVAD patients survive better than medically treated Status 1B patients on the waitlist.
Yeah, I just saw that on Stanford's website. ;)

*Random*
I worked on my first cardiac arrest today. Working on a human and working on a CPR dummy is so different (duh). lol I felt a rib crack.
 
Is that your kid on the avatar that has gianotti-crosti?
BTW if I was really in it for the money, then why do I want to go for the specialties that nobody would like to do (crappy lifestyle in residency)?
 
Nope, not my kid. Just happened to have a stethoscope in the pic.

Is that your kid on the avatar that has gianotti-crosti?
BTW if I was really in it for the money, then why do I want to go for the specialties that nobody would like to do (crappy lifestyle in residency)?

I like plastic and reconstructive surgery because of the reconstruction part; you know helping out people with deformities or trauma patients who received facial lacerations or anywhere else in the body.

Orthopedics because I also like the musculoskeletal system, sports medicine, their surgeries are meant to relieve pain, and when I watch ortho vids I could see myself doing that.
:nono:
 
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Nope, not my kid. Just happened to have a stethoscope in the pic.




:nono:

The above post was the 109,000th (exact) post in the surgery forum (and subfora).

As to @DarknightX, what you said above about chip shot appys and choles and midlevels is correct - you're not there for when it's easy - you're there for when it isn't.
 
If you aren't cracking ribs, you aren't doing chest compressions hard enough...
I was going ham! I had this paramedic look at me dead in the eye and he sang Stayin' Alive. lol
I didn't really see the monitor when I was doing CPR, but when someone else took over they kept telling him "don't let the HR fall from 100, faster!".
 
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I see you all over the place, I guess SDN is your life. But say what you want.
You said, "why do I want to go for the specialties that nobody would like to do ?" And then you listed Orthopedics and Plastics as fields you would like which are one of the most competitive specialties, with Plastics at the top.
 
You said, "why do I want to go for the specialties that nobody would like to do ?" And then you listed Orthopedics and Plastics as fields you would like which are one of the most competitive specialties, with Plastics at the top.
So... They still have crappy lifestyles, while other people get to go home at 5PM.
 
So... They still have crappy lifestyles, while other people get to go home at 5PM.
Um, no, you are incorrect :sendoff:.Ortho and Plastics can and many do have very good lifestyles as an attending.
 
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Walmart greeter has a good lifestyle. Do that.
You go do that and let me know how it goes for you.
I think you missed his snark in his comment.

1) There are specialties with bad lifestyles that make a lot of money: i.e. Neurosurgery
2) There are specialties with good lifestyles that make a lot and not a lot of money: i.e. Derm, Rads, Path, PM&R, FM, etc.
3) The specialties you just happen to like have a good lifestyle and have good compensation.

Hence why your post was funny.
 
It's insane how consistently this script plays itself out. Every incoming medical school class is full of people itching to go into "something surgical", and man do they twist themselves up in knots trying to come up with reasons why they are so passionate about that which they have not experienced- my class was full of them, my best friend and my wife included. But then the surgery rotation hits, followed by the SubI, and one by one the future neurosurgeons and cardiothoracic and plastic surgeons become the future dermatologists, radiologists, anesthesiologists and internal medicine docs. The only people in my class doing surgery are the ones that discovered they loved it IN THIRD YEAR. Watching youtube videos is one thing- standing through your 12th Whipple is quite another. That will separate those that love it from those that love the sound of it in a hurry.
 
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you're not there for when it's easy - you're there for when it isn't.

Unfortunately that argument doesn't seem to be working against the NP's encroaching on our colleague's fields
 
Unfortunately that argument doesn't seem to be working against the NP's encroaching on our colleague's fields
People tend to fear surgery because they can understand physical manipulation of something, and they tend to want the most highly skilled person to do their operation, even if it is "routine". The general public (especially those who are uneducated) has no understanding of medical management and can't comprehend the complex thought process that it requires.
 
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It's insane how consistently this script plays itself out. Every incoming medical school class is full of people itching to go into "something surgical", and man do they twist themselves up in knots trying to come up with reasons why they are so passionate about that which they have not experienced- my class was full of them, my best friend and my wife included. But then the surgery rotation hits, followed by the SubI, and one by one the future neurosurgeons and cardiothoracic and plastic surgeons become the future dermatologists, radiologists, anesthesiologists and internal medicine docs. The only people in my class doing surgery are the ones that discovered they loved it IN THIRD YEAR. Watching youtube videos is one thing- standing through your 12th Whipple is quite another. That will separate those that love it from those that love the sound of it in a hurry.
Why not tag me if you are talking about me? I'm pretty sure there is a lot of people out there who always dreamed of becoming a surgeon and they ended up doing it.
 
It's insane how consistently this script plays itself out. Every incoming medical school class is full of people itching to go into "something surgical", and man do they twist themselves up in knots trying to come up with reasons why they are so passionate about that which they have not experienced- my class was full of them, my best friend and my wife included. But then the surgery rotation hits, followed by the SubI, and one by one the future neurosurgeons and cardiothoracic and plastic surgeons and orthopedic surgeons, urologists become the future dermatologists, radiologists, anesthesiologists and internal medicine docs. The only people in my class doing surgery are the ones that discovered they loved it IN THIRD YEAR. Watching youtube videos is one thing- standing through your 12th Whipple is quite another. That will separate those that love it from those that love the sound of it in a hurry.
Don't forget Ophtho, Path, PM&R, etc. It's the very few in the med school class who have the balls to actually enter and more importantly, actually complete surgical training. The MS-3 surgical clerkship definitely separates the men from the boys, if it hasn't happened previous to that.
 
Why not tag me if you are talking about me? I'm pretty sure there is a lot of people out there who always dreamed of becoming a surgeon and they ended up doing it.
Bc he's not talking specifically about you. It happens every year in every med school class. The ones who puff up their chest early on talking about how they're going to make an awesome Orthopedist, Neurosurgeon, CT surgeon, etc. deflate early on if not by the end of their Surgery clerkship and realize that there is no way in **** they're going to waste another 5-7 years of grueling surgical training. But since it's the end of MS-3 and you have to choose pretty soon and you have loans, all of a sudden med students magically find the allure of other specialties that just happen to have better lifestyle or less number of residency training years.
 
Unfortunately that argument doesn't seem to be working against the NP's encroaching on our colleague's fields
Bc NPs have done a pretty good PR campaign to convince the public that primary care is easy and that generalists are not working at the "top of their license". They've won the debate in convincing the public that physicians should be specialists.
 
Agree. Fortunately, cardiac surgery is not simple.



Disagree. CABG is starting to turn around, and PCIs are declining nationally. Check out the FREEDOM trial and 5y follow up on the SYNTAX trial. The referring cardiologists are listening. People keep coming up with better technology, but it never seems to beat the operation that just turned 50 years old (Dr. Kolessov in the USSR performed the first LIMA-LAD in 1964). Cardiac surgeons missed the boat on PCI, and that was a grave error. However, the ability to do a good coronary is still in demand and will be for the foreseeable future. Read the COURAGE trial. Stenting chronic stable angina doesn't improve survival, because it isn't the 90% concentric lesion that ruptures and kills you. It's the 40% eccentric lesion with a thin fibrous cap. Also, a significant proportion of coronary disease is a diffuse vasculopathy (e.g. diabetics, NSTEMI patients) rather than a single stentable lesion. This is more suited to a new conduit than stenting.

Is the future cardiac surgeon going to need wire skills? Absolutely. TEVAR and TAVR will need to be in the armamentarium of the future heart surgeon. These days with the S3 valve, TAVR no longer even requires a cutdown, so wire skills will be important. Having said that, TEVAR for anything other than symptomatic aneurysmal disease in a patient not eligible for an open operation, complicated type B dissection, and traumatic aortic injury (typically Vancouver III and IV) is unproven. Additionally, TAVR for anything other than high risk operable AVR and inoperable due to technical reasons (e.g. porcelain aorta) is of questionable benefit. High risk inoperable patients have many medical comorbidities. Will technology improve? Absolutely. Betting against science/technology is typically a losing game. Today's heart surgeons are adopting these technologies early.

On the one hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be an all-around utility player (horizontal integration): TEVAR, LVADs, port access mitrals, CABG. On the other hand, the future cardiac surgeon may need to be capable of crossing specialties to some extent(vertical integration): i.e. the aortic surgeon who is able to do the standard open AVR in addition to TAVR, valve-sparing aortic root replacements, TEVARs, total arches, descending thoracic aortic aneurysms, type A dissections, and TAAAs.



More and more programs are integrating. It allows for more time to incorporate the other fields (CT radiology, Interventional cards, Vascular, IR, etc.) into the training and further allows the trainee to become a true cardiovascular specialist.

Transplant is no longer just a transplant fellowship. It's Mechanical Circulatory Support too. LVADs, paracorporeal/extracorporeal VADs, ECMO, etc. in addition to transplant (both heart and lung). The role of the LVAD is evolving as outcomes improve and $/QALY improves. The evidence is that Bridge-to-Transplant LVAD patients survive better than medically treated Status 1B patients on the waitlist.



Cardiac surgery can be painful: the patients are often sick, and the operations are tricky. However, there will always be a need for a surgeon.


Good post, not disagreeing with you. I know the data and I know that CABG is superior to stenting, but the public doesn't know that. Plus the cardiologists don't necessarily disclose that information. When you have one doctor telling you he's gonna run a wire through your groin (or even your arm) and you'll get to go home that same day or next day, and you have a surgeon on the other side telling you he's gonna crack your chest and throw some stiches in your heart, which do you think most people are gonna go with? I don't see that changing, even if the data supports it. Stenting is a much easier sell than CABG.

I agree with you about all the other stuff. CT guys absolutely need wire skills, and finding a program that integrates all that is definitely the way to go. Not disagreeing with you at all.

The problem is, as of today, the job market sucks and a lot of the CT guys are hustling and trying to find jobs. I've met a couple of vascular fellows who were previously CT trained who are doing fellowship because they couldn't find jobs. Go look at the job listings in NY, LA, SF or any other big city on a coast. The job market is horrible for CT, and most guys who get jobs in these areas are junior partners for a couple years, then get tossed aside when it's time to make partner. Plus the pay is about the same as a general surgeon, sometimes less. Will it be better in the future? I hope so. Even with all this, CT is still on my list for possible future fellowship, but location is more important to me than pay, so it's falling farther down the list.
 
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Bc he's not talking specifically about you. It happens every year in every med school class. The ones who puff up their chest early on talking about how they're going to make an awesome Orthopedist, Neurosurgeon, CT surgeon, etc. deflate early on if not by the end of their Surgery clerkship and realize that there is no way in **** they're going to waste another 5-7 years of grueling surgical training. But since it's the end of MS-3 and you have to choose pretty soon and you have loans, all of a sudden med students magically find the allure of other specialties that just happen to have better lifestyle or less number of residency training years.

We had a guy in my med school tell everyone on day 1 that he was "born to be an orthopedic surgeon." Fast forward three years later and he hated his surgery rotation and went into family practice.

Ditto for the girl whose mom was a neurosurgeon and that she absolutely 100%knew for sure that she would go into neurosurgery because she already knew everything about neurosurgery and had scrubbed into operations with her mom. She even implied that medical school was just a formality, as she already had a vast knowledge base about neurosurgery and that there was no way she was going to be swayed.

She ended up going into psych.
 
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We had a guy in my med school tell everyone on day 1 that he was "born to be an orthopedic surgeon." Fast forward three years later and he hated his surgery rotation and went into family practice.

Ditto for the girl whose mom was a neurosurgeon and that she absolutely 100%knew for sure that she would go into neurosurgery because she already knew everything about neurosurgery and had scrubbed into operations with her mom. She even implied that medical school was just a formality, as she already had a vast knowledge base about neurosurgery and that there was no way she was going to be swayed.

She ended up going into psych.
Happens every year.
 
What would be the wrong reasons to go for cardiac surgery?

I would like to answer your question even though it was meant for someone else. lol
For me, the interest of surgery came to into my head after watching a heart transplant surgery video. I like how cardiac surgeons make lifesaving/life-changing surgeries. The heart and lungs are the most important organs we have (brain too) that give us life and their anatomy and physiology interest me a lot. I like it how when surgeries go well and you get thanked by the family and the patient for your hard work (regardless of surgical specialty). Anyways, I also have other interest in other surgical specialties like, Orthopedics and Plastics, but I will keep my mind open for now. :thumbup:

What do you think?:thinking:
damn hard living without small intestine too but I don't hear people preaching about how gen surgery is so lifesaving.
 
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