Calculating salary vs cost of living/ moving out of state

[bluecolourskies]

I am an EC psychologist and looking for advice. I currently live in a high cost of living area, but I wanted to settle down somewhere with 1) warm weather that is not California 2)lower cost of living so I could buy a decent home that isn’t an obscene price.

I was browsing listings for psychologists jobs for different states (correctional and state hospital settings) and I was a little shocked by the much lower pay scale. It was something like $43,000 to 85,000 for a Psychologist 1 position??

Now I realize these states have a lower cost of living but how much lower is it? Is this because Psych 1 jobs can sometimes be filled by not licensed but just license eligible people? Is there a way to get hired to where you automatically start at the higher end of the scale?

I know I live in a very high cost of living state so the state psych job salaries reflect that. but hoo boy.

I would also love to talk to some of the people in these jobs, to see what they think about their work environment, etc. Where do I find people like that- LinkedIn? and is that a weird thing to ask people?

My plan was to get a postdoc in said warm states but that didn’t pan out, and now I think maybe I am crazy for wanting to move across the country randomly like this (at least thats what my family says). I don’t expect to stay in a state job forever but it would be nice to have a steady income when I first move and think about next career steps.

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[Spydra]

The differences in salary you're seeing is likely due to a few factors with cost of living differences being the first people think of. It is also likely that some of those positions in other states aren't unionized whereas in CA they probably are. I also wonder if some of those settings are not getting the value of assessment and are therefore saying 'you won't do that so we'll pay you less.' The availability of master's level clinicians who may be cheaper might make it harder for psychologists (who are in short supply in some places) to demand more when the setting likely thinks 'but xyz master's degree does the same thing for less.' I'm sure there are other factors.

 

[Sanman]

What jobs have you been looking at? While pay is lower in some regions with a lower cost of living, this is not always the case and not always significantly lower. Counseling centers and state jobs can vary significantly. VA and private hospitals less so.

 

[WisNeuro]

Psychologist 1 makes me think you are looking at state govt jobs, as that's the only time I've seen that title referenced in the handful of states I've lived in. If so those jobs definitely tend to pay lower on average than other similar jobs in the area. 85k for a FT job, even in a low cost area usually means you are getting hosed.

 

[medium rare]

I’m in a ‘warm weather’ state that’s not California and there are plenty of opportunities here. I’m in private practice and can mostly speak to that market but salaried positions are available. Salaried jobs, in general, tend to pay less but there are many ways to get your foot in the door to get established. It’s relatively easy for a psychologist to get a private practice established here if you have an interest in that.

 

[summerbabe]

I was browsing listings for psychologists jobs for different states (correctional and state hospital settings) and I was a little shocked by the much lower pay scale. It was something like $43,000 to 85,000 for a Psychologist 1 position??

Are you only interested in working in these settings?

I am a former West Coaster who now lives in one of these warm, super low CoL Sun Belt states. One relevant factor is that these states also tend to have poor to virtually non-existent funding for social services such as state sponsored mental health so salaries will almost certainly be less than what you are accustomed to, even after factoring in CoL.

I took a VA job and have multiple colleagues who moved over from state and correctional settings as part of mid and late career changes to VA jobs for better pay and better benefits.

 

[bluecolourskies]

Psychologist 1 makes me think you are looking at state govt jobs, as that's the only time I've seen that title referenced in the handful of states I've lived in. If so those jobs definitely tend to pay lower on average than other similar jobs in the area. 85k for a FT job, even in a low cost area usually means you are getting hosed.

yes I am! I just started my search and figured it would be easier to compare state job vs state job. And they are all conveniently located on the state jobs website. Plus I thought it was easier to get hired at those places? Maybe I need more self confidence

 

[bluecolourskies]

I’m in a ‘warm weather’ state that’s not California and there are plenty of opportunities here. I’m in private practice and can mostly speak to that market but salaried positions are available. Salaried jobs, in general, tend to pay less but there are many ways to get your foot in the door to get established. It’s relatively easy for a psychologist to get a private practice established here if you have an interest in that.

Wow I really had no idea! Do you mind if I pm you (or you could post here if comfortable). Where is this and how does one find these positions? Is there a more specialized place for these positions than indeed, etc?

 

[bluecolourskies]

Are you only interested in working in these settings?

I am a former West Coaster who now lives in one of these warm, super low CoL Sun Belt states. One relevant factor is that these states also tend to have poor to virtually non-existent funding for social services such as state sponsored mental health so salaries will almost certainly be less than what you are accustomed to, even after factoring in CoL.

I took a VA job and have multiple colleagues who moved over from state and correctional settings as part of mid and late career changes to VA jobs for better pay and better benefits.

My dream has been to work in juvenile corrections/justice system involved youth/youth with SMI. The trouble that I run into is also that some states really don’t have psychologist level providers working with these populations. But my background/training is forensic psychology, so I thought state hospital/corrections would also make it easier to get hired.

But what you said gives me hope that it can happen!! would you mind sharing what state you moved to? Its okay if you arent comfortable

 

[WisNeuro]

yes I am! I just started my search and figured it would be easier to compare state job vs state job. And they are all conveniently located on the state jobs website. Plus I thought it was easier to get hired at those places? Maybe I need more self confidence

Probably is easier to get hired, but jobs in healthcare systems around here (also not that hard to get) or the VA, are paying anywhere from 10k to 30k higher than the state jobs. And, the benefits do not make up for the salary difference.

 

[PsyDr]

I’m a big fan of tying remuneration to those metrics. Compared to firemen, why would you rise that job? Compared to gross receivables, why would you take that job?

 

[medium rare]

Wow I really had no idea! Do you mind if I pm you (or you could post here if comfortable). Where is this and how does one find these positions? Is there a more specialized place for these positions than indeed, etc?

Feel free to PM.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Might have missed it, but what state you looking at? If you're going to take a state job, make sure it's in a state that values psychologists and (probably a hot button issue with some here) is unionized. I have the cakest job in the world and can do all the PP work I want (on my personal computer) because of this very factor. The state I did my fellowship in had psychologists at the facility who had not gotten a raise in something like 7 years. And it was on the low end of pay. They got completely hosed (and a large part of this was due to not being in a union).

 

[bluecolourskies]

Might have missed it, but what state you looking at? If you're going to take a state job, make sure it's in a state that values psychologists and (probably a hot button issue with some here) is unionized. I have the cakest job in the world and can do all the PP work I want (on my personal computer) because of this very factor. The state I did my fellowship in had psychologists at the facility who had not gotten a raise in something like 7 years. And it was on the low end of pay. They got completely hosed (and a large part of this was due to not being in a union).

Hold up, I had no idea psychologists could even be in unions! So much I don’t know! Is this information I can just google or do you recommend looking somewhere specific? Will it be on the listing?

I am looking at North Carolina, South Carolina, or possibly Georgia.

 

[summerbabe]

I am looking at North Carolina, South Carolina, or possibly Georgia.

Depending on how close to want or need to be in/close to places like Charlotte, the research triangle, Asheville, and Charleston, things like housing can still be absolutely bonkers (need to offer above asking, waive inspections, etc) but CoL will be better.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Hold up, I had no idea psychologists could even be in unions! So much I don’t know! Is this information I can just google or do you recommend looking somewhere specific? Will it be on the listing?

I am looking at North Carolina, South Carolina, or possibly Georgia.

So I don't think it's very common. My current supervisor was absolutely shocked when he took over 2 years ago when he found out his employees were all part of the union. He had been a supervisor in 6 states and multiple AMCs prior to becoming our department head. It's also made his job INCREDIBLY difficult in certain ways, as he has way less control than he's used to (ie paying for recruitment stuff, pay scale stuff, etc). Way more headaches for him, but way more protections for his staff.

 

[VirginiaIsForLovers]

Hold up, I had no idea psychologists could even be in unions! So much I don’t know! Is this information I can just google or do you recommend looking somewhere specific? Will it be on the listing?

I am looking at North Carolina, South Carolina, or possibly Georgia.

Yup! I'm in one. They do all the negotiating for you and ton of benefits. Look at not only state positions, but more local county and city positions as well. If you're willing to commute a little, you can work in a larger city but sometimes the cost of living and housing is drastically lower 30 minutes outside of the city.

 

[borne_before]

Everyone is moving to my non-cali spicy state. We've got a huge housing shortage bc the cali exodus snapping up 500k homes like it's nothing to them.

 

[MiniLop]

Everyone is moving to my non-cali spicy state. We've got a huge housing shortage bc the cali exodus snapping up 500k homes like it's nothing to them.

Should we just go ahead and assume you're in Arizona?

 

[bluecolourskies]

Yup! I'm in one. They do all the negotiating for you and ton of benefits. Look at not only state positions, but more local county and city positions as well. If you're willing to commute a little, you can work in a larger city but sometimes the cost of living and housing is drastically lower 30 minutes outside of the city.

Totally forgot about county and city websites too. I am definitely not a "living in the middle of downtown" type of gal, so this helps I think I just needed some reassurance that I was not crazy and what I wanted to do was doable. That people go apply for jobs and move out of state in a "not being matched at an internship" context.

 

[Sanman]

Totally forgot about county and city websites too. I am definitely not a "living in the middle of downtown" type of gal, so this helps I think I just needed some reassurance that I was not crazy and what I wanted to do was doable. That people go apply for jobs and move out of state in a "not being matched at an internship" context.

If you are crazy, then I was crazy well before you as this is exactly what I did (though NYC, not Cali). It has upsides and downsides. I miss the social network, but I do shrug my shoulders when I hear friends and family complaining about housing prices and property taxes there. I have a nice spacious home and my property taxes are 10% of theirs while collecting nearly the same salary as I would have working a government job over there.

 

[bluecolourskies]

If you are crazy, then I was crazy well before you as this is exactly what I did (though NYC, not Cali). It has upsides and downsides. I miss the social network, but I do shrug my shoulders when I hear friends and family complaining about housing prices and property taxes there. I have a nice spacious home and my property taxes are 10% of theirs while collecting nearly the same salary as I would have working a government job over there.

If you don't mind, can you please share if you decided to eventually open up your own practice or did you like where you were at? How was it settling in a completely different place?

Internship was different because "it was only a year" and "i got matched, so can't help it" so I wasn't too worried about whether or not I liked the area I lived in or my placement (thankfully I did!)
But deciding to move of my own volition somewhere else is different, and I would feel very bad if we moved and then me or my husband decide we absolutely hate it -_-

 

[WisNeuro]

If you don't mind, can you please share if you decided to eventually open up your own practice or did you like where you were at? How was it settling in a completely different place?

Internship was different because "it was only a year" and "i got matched, so can't help it" so I wasn't too worried about whether or not I liked the area I lived in or my placement (thankfully I did!)
But deciding to move of my own volition somewhere else is different, and I would feel very bad if we moved and then me or my husband decide we absolutely hate it -_-

That's life, though. When I was in grad school, I thought I knew where I wanted to come back to to live when my training was all said and done. But, moving for postdoc and spouse's residency exposed to a couple different areas, and now we live in a place that we both love and that was not one that was on either of our lists way back when.

 

[bluecolourskies]

That's life, though. When I was in grad school, I thought I knew where I wanted to come back to to live when my training was all said and done. But, moving for postdoc and spouse's residency exposed to a couple different areas, and now we live in a place that we both love and that was not one that was on either of our lists way back when.

I just realized something, my parents and I moved to America about a decade ago, and that seemed to work out okay so far. Now I have no idea why I'm tripping over only moving to a different state! Really puts things into perspective.

 

[Sanman]

If you don't mind, can you please share if you decided to eventually open up your own practice or did you like where you were at? How was it settling in a completely different place?

Internship was different because "it was only a year" and "i got matched, so can't help it" so I wasn't too worried about whether or not I liked the area I lived in or my placement (thankfully I did!)
But deciding to move of my own volition somewhere else is different, and I would feel very bad if we moved and then me or my husband decide we absolutely hate it -_-

Worked for a group practice and some geriatric companies and learned to ropes of PP/billing codes/referral streams, etc, then I moved the VA system (where I am now). I am also in the process of starting a private practice that will be part-time for now. I have not decided whether it will stay part-time or I will leave the VA system and go full-time. I imagine a lot of that will be determined over the next few years depending on how the VA chooses to navigate returning to work from the pandemic and how PP goes. I have enjoyed telework and would like to continue that lifestyle. I am also at a point in my life/career where I am financially stable enough to make the jump to solo PP if that is better for my life.

As for moving, I have done it before (college, grad school) and honestly we like it here just fine. There were more job opportunities here for both of us, so why not? In both my home state and here, friends and family have scattered for job and family reasons. So, it is not as if staying close to home would have meant being able to see everyone. We may move again depending on where life takes us. Why feel bad if you try something and it does not work out? You can always give it a few years and go back if you don't like it.