Brown vs UNC

[Ottonocker]

Hello! I'm currently trying to decide between matriculating into Alpert Medical School at Brown University or the UNC-CH School of Medicine. I am extremely interested in academic medicine and I would ideally like the opportunity to conduct wet-lab research during my time in med school. Additionally, I am interested in the following specialities: surgical oncology, heme-oncology, and CT surgery. Thank you everyone for your input!

Brown:

Pros:
- offer a scholarly concentration in translational research (the description highlights a more clinical research focus but the faculty member I interviewed with said that AMS would be very accommodating for me to do wet-lab research)
- faculty seem to be really supportive of students
- ample ability to personalize medical school activities
- during my interview, I seemed to have more in common with the current students/applicants
- I could envision myself being happy living in Providence
- stronger residency match list
- AMS is actively trying to strengthen their research and innovation efforts (currently building a new life science building...but it will not benefit me during my time as a student)
- smaller class size (~140)
- more diverse pre-clinical elective offerings
- only medical school in RI (but Boston is only an hour away so most of the interesting medical cases/surgeries might go elsewhere)

Cons:
- weaker hospital reputation (utilize affiliate hospitals)
- lower US news research ranking: 35
- likely more expensive (have not received financial aid info yet)
- cancer center is only a few years old (important given my interest in oncology)
- unimpressive medical school building

UNC:

Pros:
- new medical school building (expected completion date in 2023)
- higher US news research ranking: 25
- located in Research Triangle (biotech/life science hub)
- 1.5 year pre-clinical curriculum
- stronger hospital reputation
- likely cheaper (I would have in-state tuition)
- more established cancer center

Cons:
- every interaction I've had with the school seems to be disorganized
- not a fan of the university/school culture
- only real opportunity to conduct wet-lab research is during the summer between M1-M2
- weaker residency match list
- school is very focused on primary care/family medicine
- very large class size (~200)
- lower residency match rate
- the student's I've spoken to claim that they don't feel supported by the administration
- competing with Duke for interesting medical cases/surgeries

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[fructose312]

What is your motivation and/or expectations to wanting to conduct wet-lab research during medical school? I'd suggest to not let that factor into your decision on where you want to attend. You will have those opportunities at either school, but are you trying to become an MD that becomes a PI (and mostly doesn't practice?) Otherwise, I can tell you that if you are trying to go into the surgical specialties you've listed you will want to do more clinical-related projects and not spend time in the lab as you will not be able to publish quick enough to match competitively.

I can write-up a more in-depth explanation, but I would definitely lean towards UNC. A couple of the cons you've listed for UNC are not true (I would argue that Brown has a stronger focus on primary care; UNC is just that great of both a research AND primary care institution so they can publicize that); it doesn't compete with Duke due to the size of the regional population (if competing were true for ex, they wouldn't have their own NCI-designated cancer center), transplant division, etc. and by that logic Brown competes with Harvard and Yale.

You obviously seem like you are leaning towards Brown & by all means, if you think that's a better fit go there for sure. Did you interview in-person or visit yet? I think for academic medicine, UNC has a stronger name, reputation, and connections that will probably carry you further. Both are great choices though! Congrats.

 

[Ottonocker]

What is your motivation and/or expectations to wanting to conduct wet-lab research during medical school? I'd suggest to not let that factor into your decision on where you want to attend. You will have those opportunities at either school, but are you trying to become an MD that becomes a PI (and mostly doesn't practice?) Otherwise, I can tell you that if you are trying to go into the surgical specialties you've listed you will want to do more clinical-related projects and not spend time in the lab as you will not be able to publish quick enough to match competitively.

I can write-up a more in-depth explanation, but I would definitely lean towards UNC. A couple of the cons you've listed for UNC are not true (I would argue that Brown has a stronger focus on primary care; UNC is just that great of both a research AND primary care institution so they can publicize that); it doesn't compete with Duke due to the size of the regional population (if competing were true for ex, they wouldn't have their own NCI-designated cancer center), transplant division, etc. and by that logic Brown competes with Harvard and Yale.

You obviously seem like you are leaning towards Brown & by all means, if you think that's a better fit go there for sure. Did you interview in-person or visit yet? I think for academic medicine, UNC has a stronger name, reputation, and connections that will probably carry you further. Both are great choices though! Congrats.

I'm hoping to become a physician scientist (ie become the PI of my own lab one day). From my prior lab experiences, I've worked with multiple MD only physicians who have successfully pursued this path (I don't think a full MD-PhD program is worth the extra years in training...and I already have multiple years of full time research experience). Unfortunately, I know that makes things more difficult since both AMS and UNC don't have established programs to support that career path...

I agree that the issue with nearby competitors exists for both schools (UNC w/ Duke; AMS w/ Harvard and Yale). I just wasn't sure if it would be more extreme at one school vs another. For example, I know that in NC, most of the heart transplant innovation occurs as Duke.

Would you go more in-depth on what you think makes UNC a stronger school? The main things which are currently having me lean towards AMS are the match list and the findings of this article from 2015 (What Makes a Top Research Medical School? A Call for a New... : Academic Medicine).

Also, thank you for writing such a detailed response. I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

 

[obiwan]

You should not have any concerns regarding the proximity of Duke to UNC and any "competition." UNC is a tertiary/quaternary care center with all the sub-specialists that you could never need and thus the patient complexity/population that you will learn from. So you will have opportunities to see things like CAR T cell therapy and BMT since you mentioned being interested in heme/onc.

Also, I might pause when using the match list as a criteria for choosing and saying that Brown has a "stronger" match list. There are many factors at play when students match into a program including regionality and preference of staying at their home program. So you might see more Yales and Dartmouths on the Brown match list just because these kids want to stay in the Northeast so giving the perception that it matches better since you have more shiny names that your grandmother might be impressed by but in reality is necessarily the case. Since you are interested in heme/onc, I see that UNC has no problem sending kids to internal medicine programs like UCSF, Hopkins, Hospital of Univ of Pennsylvania, Brigham, BIDMC, UTSW, Vanderbilt etc etc so you know that there is no ceiling as far as residency potential and if your ultimate goal is to train at a place like MSKCC so you shouldn't have any reservations about UNC's match