Boyfriend moved to residency and I moved with him, but we aren't engaged or married?

[Crayola227]

Is he your first serious relationship? Moving to TX is a huge life altering decision and if there was no "plan" beyond that, I'm surprised friends/family didn't try to talk you out of it even if they love him. I'm not sure why you'd think asking these questions would make you look "needy". These are normal and expected questions to ask after being in a relationship for a while and especially when moving across the country without a ring on your finger. If he doesn't think these questions are appropriate to be asking, DTMFA, because he is not serious about being with you.

You guys need to have a conversation. A serious one. And if you don't get the answers you're looking for and he is not committed to you, DTMFA so you can move on with your life.

I don't totally agree. I think it's fine to move cross country without knowing the future of a relationship, provided you are comfortable with the idea and recognize the risks involved, to the relationship, your heart, where that leaves you financially/career wise, etc. When I moved cross country with a bf in similar circumstances, it was my med school gap year. I didn't have a lot of stuff. If the relationship failed, I was only out the time with my friends/family, and the expense of a plane ticket

Another friend of mine turned down one med school and went to another to be with a bf. The relationship didn't last long after, and they were somewhat bummed they had chosen the one school over the other. However, they were still in school, and an excellent one at that, in a good location. They hadn't frakked their life.

While in med school, they met their future spouse and just recently got married after 5 happy years together. Again they made a compromise on location to be with their SO now spouse, but they are in the specialty they wanted. Things turned out just fine.

Don't make career compromises for love. Geographical ones are fine and can usually be undone.

I DO AGREE that you should be in a relationship where you can always ask what page you are on, and it's OK. If you can't ask how someone feels about you, then DTMFA. Dump anyone friend or otherwise, that you can't check in with. Life is too short to spend it on people who can't even say what you mean to them.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I agree. If I was dating someone who was like "Look, I want to make this relationship work and see a future together, but you have to be clear and honest with me" I would respect that immeasurably.

You want to attract the best? Be the best. Be virtuous. Have courage. Be truthful. Be kind,etc. Be the kind of person YOU would want to marry.

Like Crayola said, he might be afraid of being hurt. I feel like in relationships, the partners might not be so forgiving of each other. I think men go the extra mile to please their women, but often women do not see that. The reverse is probably true a lot of the time as well.

Why are we talking about this on SDN? Why are you not having this conversation with your boyfriend? Did you tell him how much commitment is important to you? How you will sacrifice and you'll stay with him no matter what? Perhaps that might alleviate his fear.

 

[Crayola227]

Yes he is my first serious relationship. My family and his both just assume that we'll get married eventually.

So you agree that this is peculiar that he hasn't proposed before moving me down here?

It doesn't matter what you family assumes. They're not the ones in it, are they?

 

[Melanie2423]

I agree marriage is a beautiful thing and hope to one day be married. However, it is a wildly bad deal from the men's point of view.

In today's climate, marriage is WAYY too risky for a man. At any instant the women can be unhappy and demand half of the man's earnings. 80% of all divorces are initiated by a women, and they can leave for any reason, even if the man was a good hearted kind soul. I have witnessed this first hand, the women cheats, then files for divorce. There is no consequence for cheating, and the cheating party can still rake the higher income earner across the coals.

Everything in the family court system is in favor of the women, thats why something like 90+% of children go with the mother unless said mother has some sort of documentation of mental illness.

Do not talk about divorce and family laws until you have had to stare into the eyes of a broken man who told you he contemplated suicide and just wants to see his kids one last time before he pulls the trigger. People have no clue how devastating divorce and the family court system is for men and children.

Doctors getting married to a nurse is especially risky business because in 5 years (the benchmark of how long the average marriage lasts) said doctor will likely be making 200K+ as an attending. This puts them in a huge risk zone, and a big target on their back.

Think of it from the man's perspective, why get married? Companionship? You can get that through dating. Kids? in today's culture, You dont even have to be married to have kids and nobody blinks an eye. Intimacy? I grew up where it was no Ding Ding without the Ring Ring, but that doesnt seem to be the sentiment most people go by in today's age.

So marriage has a huge financial risk and all the upsides you could get from marriage are acquired other ways.

Wow, so many men are really delusional. You just said at any instant a woman could decide she's unhappy and randomly ask for a divorce, as if divorce from a man they loved and have children with is something women take lightly.
Trust me, it's under extreme circumstances when women want divorces. Ex. Cheating, unhappy marriage due to non-supportive husband.

As I said before. Good husbands are rarely divorced, because good husband and good fathers are appreciated and women know how hard that is to find.

I think the men who are scared of marriage are the ones who know they won't be good husbands and fathers so when inevitable divorce comes they're scared of losing their money, which is why they like having long term live in girlfriends. They get a wife without actually having a wife.

 

[rokshana]

Like Crayola said, he might be afraid of being hurt. I feel like in relationships, the partners might not be so forgiving of each other. I think men go the extra mile to please their women, but often women do not see that. The reverse is probably true a lot of the time as well.

Why are we talking about this on SDN? Why are you not having this conversation with your boyfriend? Did you tell him how much commitment is important to you? How you will sacrifice and you'll stay with him no matter what? Perhaps that might alleviate his fear.

maybe she felt the need to talk to people that have no vested interest, after all friends and family have a level of bias.

is this really any different than any of the other posts on here asking for advice?

 

[Crayola227]

Even a year in after moving??

Nope. I was with my two ex-fiancees for around 5 or 6 years each before engagement, and even then, it was pretty low key. As you can see, not a terrible move since we aren't together anymore, obvs. The 7 year itch is real.

 

[Crayola227]

We've been together for 3 years total.

There's no magic time limit when a relationship is ready for lifelong commitment.

 

[neoexile]

maybe she felt the need to talk to people that have no vested interest, after all friends and family have a level of bias.

is this really any different than any of the other posts on here asking for advice?

Fair point. But I feel like relational issues should be resolved between the two people who are in a relationship first. We don't know the boyfriend and we are hearing only her side. So our advice might be erraneous.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Well, it is up to women to change that. Women are the gatekeepers of intimacy, Men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

I have seen plenty of women divorce their husbands because they "Weren't happy" or "Grew Apart". I have seen it decimate men and children both, and the wife pick up a new boyfriend in two months time. I saw this on 4 occasions at my old work. Never once have I seen a man file for divorce.

You want to know the little secret? Most men DO want to get married, settle down, and have kids with a loving wife. Until the climate of divorce raking over the coals stops, I'm not getting married any time soon.

Wow, so many men are really delusional. You just said at any instant a woman could decide she's unhappy and randomly ask for a divorce, as if divorce from a man they loved and have children with is something women take lightly.
Trust me, it's under extreme circumstances when women want divorces. Ex. Cheating, unhappy marriage due to non-supportive husband.

As I said before. Good husbands are rarely divorced, because good husband and good fathers are appreciated and women know how hard that is to find.

I think the men who are scared of marriage are the ones who know they won't be good husbands and fathers so when inevitable divorce comes they're scared of losing their money, which is why they like having long term live in girlfriends. They get a wife without actually having a wife.

 

[Crayola227]

Assuming that your boyfriend is not aware of the red-pill community (look up some MGTOW videos by YouTubers like Turd Flinging Monkey to get an idea) it is not strange for an intern to be too busy to even think about marriage. This is especially true if you want any sort of ceremony. The system of laws and societal ethics in the West heavily favor women in the event of a formal separation. Divorce courts do not require evidence or fault in order to make decisions and possibly ruin a person's life. Divorce court makes #metoo look like a Disney movie.

In addition, marriage confers almost no benefits to a man besides feels - unless you have children and plan to actually raise them (ie. not send them away for > 40 hours per week) and both of you expect your kids to ask "why doesn't daddy want to show commitment to mom in front of our community/family/higher power?" Your future talk should ideally include plans for kids and, at a bare minimum, your recognition that state-sanctioned marriage is 100% a raw deal. If no kids will be in your future, not being married should pose zero issues, unless there's some other reason he needs to take that risk.

I'm not quoting this for agreeing with it, except that legal marriage is a huge deal and even a negative one financially with 2 people who have big incomes like physicians.

Plenty of people have the following attitudes or do the following
1) Have a ceremony, even a religious one, sight of God and friends and all that, but don't get a marriage certificate. Not all churches/religions go for this, but ceremonies don't have to be religious.
2) Many people actually see it as a deeper sign of commitment that the only thing keeping them together in a lifelong commitment is their promise. That this means that each day they are making the promise and choice to be together, sans some of this external pressure from society in various forms like a license or a ring.
3) Many people take that step to actual marriage when they wish to mingle assets in certain ways, other financial reasons
4) For the sake of the way that children, little irrational creatures that they are, might feel about their parents' marital status, before conception or birth. Again, this may still be a ceremony and nothing more.

 

[Melanie2423]

Nope. I was with my two ex-fiancees for around 5 or 6 years each before engagement, and even then, it was pretty low key. As you can see, not a terrible move since we aren't together anymore, obvs. The 7 year itch is real.

This kind of proves my friends point. Usually a man doesn't need to be in a relationship that long before he knows you are the girl he wants to marry. 5-7 years and still no proposal?? They weren't going to marry you.

 

[Crayola227]

Women initiate 70% of the divorces and 50% marriages end in failure. It's a bad deal for men to get married right now financially. Especially women seem to be keen on leaving half the time leaving a lot of men broken hearted and deprived of their kids. AND paying child support/alimony.

From where I'm standing, marriage isn't that beautiful and is looking pretty bad to me.

I think what I said above about focusing on marriage being a promise and not a legal entanglement, can bring some of the romance and beauty back to it.

Lifelong commitment has benefits, and whether or not you get a license, it is a choice either way. One can make that choice and reap the benefits and risks regardless.

 

[Crayola227]

Sounds like a tough conversation is in order. Every relationship is different and has its own path. All the matters is whether you and he are happy with it. If you’re not, then it’s time to talk about it.

Truth is residency is busy but not THAT busy. At this point her should have found his stride and can handle discussing other things. You need some answers to some tough questions. If things aren’t going where you want, then they need to change or you need to find a better situation; same goes for him.

My one pearl of wisdom would be to have a clear concrete idea of what YOU want and need going forward. The past is past and not going to change. Avoid wasting time on things why he didn’t propose or purchase the house with you or whatever. Those are irrelevant topics now because those times have passed. Have a clear idea in your mind of what your must haves are.

If a proposal is what you want then he needs to know that and also the timeline that’s acceptable to you. If you want it within six months, say so. If you’re ok to wait until after residency, say so. Be very clear. This is not remotely needy, this is about each of you discussing your needs and coming to a decision. This is about both of you not wasting your time if this relationship isn’t going where you both need it to go.

I would say, if you love someone, you should be willing to compromise and hear them out. Maybe she wants an engagement in 6 mos, and he doesn't feel comfortable with the ultimatum and wants to wait. I think then it makes sense to explore why he feels that way, and then for her to decide then if that's acceptable or not. It might not be.

 

[Melanie2423]

Well, it is up to women to change that. Women are the gatekeepers of intimacy, Men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

I have seen plenty of women divorce their husbands because they "Weren't happy" or "Grew Apart". I have seen it decimate men and children both, and the wife pick up a new boyfriend in two months time. I saw this on 4 occasions at my old work. Never once have I seen a man file for divorce.

You want to know the little secret? Most men DO want to get married, settle down, and have kids with a loving wife. Until the climate of divorce raking over the coals stops, I'm not getting married any time soon.

And most women do want to get married, settle down, and have kids with a loving husband. KEYWORD LOVING HUSBAND

Unfortunately many men start showing their true colors after marriage and kids.

Point is, many men don't want to be good husbands or even know how to be. They just think they need to pay bills and get sex and that's what marriage should be.

 

[neoexile]

This kind of proves my friends point. Usually a man doesn't need to be in a relationship that long before he knows you are the girl he wants to marry. 5-7 years and still no proposal?? They weren't going to marry you.

Does he know? I'm certain the 50% of men who were later divorce knew at the time of marriage that their woman would be the woman of the rest of their lives. Until it wasn't.

It's a scary environment to go into marriage when you can have heaven one day, but the woman can just leave and make your life hell the next day. That's a really high price to pay.

 

[GypsyHummus]

What is your view on marrying a Podiatrist? I heard they give excellent foot rubs

I'm not quoting this for agreeing with it, except that legal marriage is a huge deal and even a negative one financially with 2 people who have big incomes like physicians.

Plenty of people have the following attitudes or do the following
1) Have a ceremony, even a religious one, sight of God and friends and all that, but don't get a marriage certificate. Not all churches/religions go for this, but ceremonies don't have to be religious.
2) Many people actually see it as a deeper sign of commitment that the only thing keeping them together in a lifelong commitment is their promise. That this means that each day they are making the promise and choice to be together, sans some of this external pressure from society in various forms like a license or a ring.
3) Many people take that step to actual marriage when they wish to mingle assets in certain ways, other financial reasons
4) For the sake of the way that children, little irrational creatures that they are, might feel about their parents' marital status, before conception or birth. Again, this may still be a ceremony and nothing more.

 

[neoexile]

And most women do want to get married, settle down, and have kids with a loving husband. KEYWORD LOVING HUSBAND

Unfortunately many men start showing their true colors after marriage and kids.

Point is, many men don't want to be good husbands or even know how to be. They just think they need to pay bills and get sex and that's what marriage should be.

I don't believe for a second that all 50% of those men who got divorced were all evil, bloodthirsty men who weren't LOVING HUSBANDs. You are making a lot of generalizations about men and this is high marriage is so high risk.

Men are the evil ones that don't contribute and women are the innocent victims of men all the time. Ya marriage in a lot of case is a trap.

 

[rokshana]

This kind of proves my friends point. Usually a man doesn't need to be in a relationship that long before he knows you are the girl he wants to marry. 5-7 years and still no proposal?? They weren't going to marry you.

well it depends on the timing of the relationship and when it started...i have known people who were together for 10 years before they finally got married...not because they didn't know that the relationship wasn't a permanent one, but wanted to get through certain things...high school sweethearts that wanted to finish college or met in college and wanted to get through graduate school or med school or even residency (not the easiest thing to plan and get married as an intern or resident), but again, both parties were in agreement with the timeline...meaning they discussed their timeline and the timeline was right for them.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Point is, many men don't want to be good husbands or even know how to be. They just think they need to pay bills and get sex and that's what marriage should be.

There is more to it than that?

Just kidding. Although I think chores around the house should be proportioned by income i.e., if you are bringing in 300K and I bring in 200K, we split the work 2 to 3.

 

[Raryn]

Assuming that your boyfriend is not aware of the red-pill community (look up some MGTOW videos by YouTubers like Turd Flinging Monkey to get an idea) it is not strange for an intern to be too busy to even think about marriage. This is especially true if you want any sort of ceremony. The system of laws and societal ethics in the West heavily favor women in the event of a formal separation. Divorce courts do not require evidence or fault in order to make decisions and possibly ruin a person's life. Divorce court makes #metoo look like a Disney movie.

In addition, marriage confers almost no benefits to a man besides feels - unless you have children and plan to actually raise them (ie. not send them away for > 40 hours per week) and both of you expect your kids to ask "why doesn't daddy want to show commitment to mom in front of our community/family/higher power?" Your future talk should ideally include plans for kids and, at a bare minimum, your recognition that state-sanctioned marriage is 100% a raw deal. If no kids will be in your future, not being married should pose zero issues, unless there's some other reason he needs to take that risk.

Holy crap the cynicism.

Maybe it's just me, but you should seriously re-evaluate how you view relationships. Most modern marriages have give and take on both parties parts. I get just as much out of the relationship at this point as my wife does, and there's no kids involved yet.

Women initiate 70% of the divorces and 50% marriages end in failure. It's a bad deal for men to get married right now financially. Especially women seem to be keen on leaving half the time leaving a lot of men broken hearted and deprived of their kids. AND paying child support/alimony.

From where I'm standing, marriage isn't that beautiful and is looking pretty bad to me.

This is an outdated and misapplied statistic. In the 1970s, 50% of marriages overall ended in failure, but this has come down significantly to below 40%. On top of that, a huge proportion of the people who get divorced were previously divorced - they're on their second, third, or fourth divorce, totally skewing the numbers.

At most, taking all comers, approximately 30% of first marriages get divorced. If you actually look at couples who are college educated and marry after 25, that number drops below 20%. It's not 1 in two chance of divorce for a college educated couple in their late 20s... it's 1 in five.

I am sorry but the stats are against you. MARRIAGE IS A TERRIBLE THING FOR MEN! It can be wonderful for sure but it's very rare to find that person these days. We are in the age of instant gratification.

I have told myself that i will get married after 3 kids, and once all of them are past 5 years old.

Username checks out.

 

[Melanie2423]

Does he know? I'm certain the 50% of men who were later divorce knew at the time of marriage that their woman would be the woman of the rest of their lives. Until it wasn't.

It's a scary environment to go into marriage when you can have heaven one day, but the woman can just leave and make your life hell the next day. That's a really high price to pay.

And what caused the woman to want a divorce! You all seem to not comprehend that marriage is a partnership. Many men cheat on their spouses hence why divorce is mainly initiated by the women. Also many women feel too stressed due to the husband not helping out in the household.

It's really telling how instead of asking how can men be better husbands they rather complain about how stupid marriage is.

 

[GypsyHummus]

That is how the courts see it. Considering women are 50%+ of the voters, it would really help out if some women wanted to put in effort to improving the marriage laws for men. That wont happen obviously, so we will have women continue to get more and more unhappy every year and men raked over the hot steamy coals of the family law system.

Everyone loses is the tragic thing about this, especially the kids, and they did nothing wrong.

I don't believe for a second that all 50% of those men who got divorced were all evil, bloodthirsty men who weren't LOVING HUSBANDs. You are making a lot of generalizations about men and this is high marriage is so high risk.

Men are the evil ones that don't contribute and women are the innocent victims of men all the time. Ya marriage in a lot of case is a trap.

 

[Crayola227]

He wasn't afraid to ask me to move all the way down here to be with him, but he's afraid of commitment?

I'm starting to think my friends are right. If he doesn't trust me or want to commit then it's clear there's no foundation for a real relationship

You don't see how someone would want to continue a relationship, and love them, and want to "play house" living together, but still be afraid of it being permanent at that point?

There's different levels of commitment. So when I say afraid of commitment, I mean the marriage kind. Clearly he wasn't afraid of the commitment of living together.

Given how you feel, do you feel ready to tattoo his name across your breasts? No? How about after a ring? Still no? Then it sounds like you too might be have some nascent fears about lifelong commitment. (Maybe you hate tattoos. Let's just say you were going to fall asleep drugged and then wake up with one.)

 

[Melanie2423]

well it depends on the timing of the relationship and when it started...i have known people who were together for 10 years before they finally got married...not because they didn't know that the relationship wasn't a permanent one, but wanted to get through certain things...high school sweethearts that wanted to finish college or met in college and wanted to get through graduate school or med school or even residency (not the easiest thing to plan and get married as an intern or resident), but again, both parties were in agreement with the timeline...meaning they discussed their timeline and the timeline was right for them.

That's different. If you've been together while you were very young but wanted to wait for marriage until both of you were settled and had income that's different.
If however you're both late 20's/early 30's and still don't know you want to marry someone after 3+ years there's a problem.
I know residency is hard and I'm not asking for a wedding during his residency. Just a proposal would be enough.

 

[neoexile]

This is an outdated and misapplied statistic. In the 1970s, 50% of marriages overall ended in failure, but this has come down significantly to below 40%. On top of that, a huge proportion of the people who get divorced were previously divorced - they're on their second, third, or fourth divorce, totally skewing the numbers.

At most, taking all comers, approximately 30% of first marriages get divorced. If you actually look at couples who are college educated and marry after 25, that number drops below 20%. It's not 1 in two chance of divorce for a college educated couple in their late 20s... it's 1 in five.

Assuming that the statistic is true, 30% is STILL high risk. 40% is still high risk. And also what you aren't mentioning is that a lot less people are getting married as of right now. This is in part due to the high risk nature of marriage.

And what caused the woman to want a divorce! You all seem to not comprehend that marriage is a partnership. Many men cheat on their spouses hence why divorce is mainly initiated by the women. Also many women feel too stressed due to the husband not helping out in the household.

It's really telling how instead of asking how can men be better husbands they rather complain about how stupid marriage is.

I'm not going to live my life to figure out how to please some imaginary woman. I'll live for myself first, thanks. I refuse to believe that all the men that get divorced deserved it, because of poor housework participation or cheating when many times that isn't the case.

 

[darknecrosforte]

Wow, so many men are really delusional. You just said at any instant a woman could decide she's unhappy and randomly ask for a divorce, as if divorce from a man they loved and have children with is something women take lightly.
Trust me, it's under extreme circumstances when women want divorces. Ex. Cheating, unhappy marriage due to non-supportive husband.

As I said before. Good husbands are rarely divorced, because good husband and good fathers are appreciated and women know how hard that is to find.

I think the men who are scared of marriage are the ones who know they won't be good husbands and fathers so when inevitable divorce comes they're scared of losing their money, which is why they like having long term live in girlfriends. They get a wife without actually having a wife.

You are exactly the type of women that most MGTOW try to avoid. You demand a position of de facto maximum trust, yet show no evidence of basic empathy or willingness to consider that you are wrong. AND you talk about "being equal", yet clearly you show that you ARE NOT EQUAL (ie. your admission of how much you make). I guarantee that if you seek out "purple pill" or red-pill relationship advice online and actually apply some of it, your boyfriend will marry you in a few months. But you won't do it because "your friends are correct" and you only came on here because you were seeking validation on the decisions you probably already made and now are getting much more resistance than your expected.

You have logically presented your boyfriend to be, at least financially, an appreciating asset and you, at the moment, are relatively stagnant. Your looks and fertility are depreciating assets (which makes your concern very valid), but your attitude is something you can control. On this forum, you provided zero info on how you plan to increase your value to his life by being the extremely rare type of woman who will prioritize him over "friends" who give terrible advice (because it is too one-sided and unrealistic, aka 100% useless) or by focusing on being an irreplaceable, beloved mother.

And @Raryn I specifically dated and formally courted a childhood acquaintance as a 17-year-old because I saw her strongly/righteously criticize her friends when they were wrong and also change her own behavior when corrected. Married her at 20 because I knew that quality was rare in a Western woman. I knew she'd be a good mother because she could actually empathize with the plight of the modern man and would not destroy the family because of mere personal unhappiness. Married 7 years so far and have a lovely daughter now. My wife makes being a med student and father fun and even more meaningful. And as we have more kids and she starts homeschooling them, I can 100% say that we are equals and will grow very similarly in value to each other. Every relationship is different, but OP definitely has a lot of work on herself to do, from what she has said so far.

 

[GypsyHummus]

That you can not understand the male's perspective on why marriage is a bad deal is very telling.

That is not an attack on your character either, but you need to understand where men are coming from, especially men who will make more than you and have everything to lose if some day 8 years from now, you just decide to be "Unhappy" or "He doesnt listen to me, but Chad does". Not saying that will happen, but the court system the way it is set up allows for it to happen.

And what caused the woman to want a divorce! You all seem to not comprehend that marriage is a partnership. Many men cheat on their spouses hence why divorce is mainly initiated by the women. Also many women feel too stressed due to the husband not helping out in the household.

It's really telling how instead of asking how can men be better husbands they rather complain about how stupid marriage is.

 

[Melanie2423]

You don't see how someone would want to continue a relationship, and love them, and want to "play house" living together, but still be afraid of it being permanent at that point?

There's different levels of commitment. So when I say afraid of commitment, I mean the marriage kind. Clearly he wasn't afraid of the commitment of living together.

Given how you feel, do you feel ready to tattoo his name across your breasts? No? How about after a ring? Still no? Then it sounds like you too might be have some nascent fears about lifelong commitment. (Maybe you hate tattoos. Let's just say you were going to fall asleep drugged and then wake up with one.)

You basically just told me he doesn't want to be tied down, which essentially means he's not sure about a future with me. That's really all I need to know.

My friends were right. The clues were all there.

 

[darknecrosforte]

That you can not understand the male's perspective on why marriage is a bad deal is very telling.

That is not an attack on your character either, but you need to understand where men are coming from, especially men who will make more than you and have everything to lose if some day 8 years from now, you just decide to be "Unhappy" or "He doesnt listen to me, but Chad does". Not saying that will happen, but the court system the way it is set up allows for it to happen.

Your vernacular leads me to believe that you have taken the red pill in some form. Even using the name Chad lol. Or you are around a lot of veterans.

 

[neoexile]

You are exactly the type of women that most MGTOW try to avoid. You demand a position of de facto maximum trust, yet show no evidence of basic empathy or willingness to consider that you are wrong. AND you talk about "being equal", yet clearly you show that you ARE NOT EQUAL (ie. your admission of how much you make). I guarantee that if you seek out "purple pill" or red-pill relationship advice online and actually apply some of it, your boyfriend will marry you in a few months. But you won't do it because "your friends are correct" and you only came on here because you were seeking validation on the decisions you probably already made and now are getting much more resistance than your expected.

You have logically presented your boyfriend to be, at least financially, an appreciating asset and you, at the moment, are relatively stagnant. Your looks and fertility are depreciating assets (which makes your concern very valid), but your attitude is something you can control. On this forum, you provided zero info on how you plan to increase your value to his life by being the extremely rare type of woman who will prioritize him over "friends" who give terrible advice (because it is too one-sided and unrealistic, aka 100% useless) or by focusing on being an irreplaceable, beloved mother.

And @Raryn I specifically dated and formally courted a childhood acquaintance as a 17-year-old because I saw her strongly/righteously criticize her friends when they were wrong and also change her own behavior when corrected. Married her at 20 because I knew that quality was rare in a Western woman. I knew she'd be a good mother because she could actually empathize with the plight of the modern man and would not destroy the family because of mere personal unhappiness. Married 7 years so far and have a lovely daughter now. My wife makes being a med student and father fun and even more meaningful. And as we have more kids and she starts homeschooling them, I can 100% say that we are equals and will grow very similarly in value to each other. Every relationship is different, but OP definitely has a lot of work on herself to do, from what she has said so far.

Dude. Congratulations. I'm happy you have having a good marriage!

 

[Raryn]

I feel like I've somehow gone back in time and stumbled upon /r/incel

 

[GypsyHummus]

100% correct and truth.

I consider myself a hopeful MGTOW. I do want to get married, but as of right now, way to risky. There are women out there who are marriage material, but it is like 2% of the population at this point, less if you count the ones in relationships.

You are exactly the type of women that most MGTOW try to avoid. You demand a position of de facto maximum trust, yet show no evidence of basic empathy or willingness to consider that you are wrong. AND you talk about "being equal", yet clearly you show that you ARE NOT EQUAL (ie. your admission of how much you make). I guarantee that if you seek out "purple pill" or red-pill relationship advice online and actually apply some of it, your boyfriend will marry you in a few months. But you won't do it because "your friends are correct" and you only came on here because you were seeking validation on the decisions you probably already made and now are getting much more resistance than your expected.

You have logically presented your boyfriend to be, at least financially, an appreciating asset and you, at the moment, are relatively stagnant. Your looks and fertility are depreciating assets (which makes your concern very valid), but your attitude is something you can control. On this forum, you provided zero info on how you plan to increase your value to his life by being the extremely rare type of woman who will prioritize him over "friends" who give terrible advice (because it is too one-sided and unrealistic, aka 100% useless) or by focusing on being an irreplaceable, beloved mother.

 

[Melanie2423]

You are exactly the type of women that most MGTOW try to avoid. You demand a position of de facto maximum trust, yet show no evidence of basic empathy or willingness to consider that you are wrong. AND you talk about "being equal", yet clearly you show that you ARE NOT EQUAL (ie. your admission of how much you make). I guarantee that if you seek out "purple pill" or red-pill relationship advice online and actually apply some of it, your boyfriend will marry you in a few months. But you won't do it because "your friends are correct" and you only came on here because you were seeking validation on the decisions you probably already made and now are getting much more resistance than your expected.

You have logically presented your boyfriend to be, at least financially, an appreciating asset and you, at the moment, are relatively stagnant. Your looks and fertility are depreciating assets (which makes your concern very valid), but your attitude is something you can control. On this forum, you provided zero info on how you plan to increase your value to his life by being the extremely rare type of woman who will prioritize him over "friends" who give terrible advice (because it is too one-sided and unrealistic, aka 100% useless) or by focusing on being an irreplaceable, beloved mother.

And @Raryn I specifically dated and formally courted a childhood acquaintance as a 17-year-old because I saw her strongly/righteously criticize her friends when they were wrong and also change her own behavior when corrected. Married her at 20 because I knew that quality was rare in a Western woman. I knew she'd be a good mother because she could actually empathize with the plight of the modern man and would not destroy the family because of mere personal unhappiness. Married 7 years so far and have a lovely daughter now. My wife makes being a med student and father fun and even more meaningful. And as we have more kids and she starts homeschooling them, I can 100% say that we are equals and will grow very similarly in value to each other. Every relationship is different, but OP definitely has a lot of work on herself to do, from what she has said so far.

Your entire post is bull**** and it's clear you hate women in general. If many men are like you and have your mindset I can see why women are done with men.

In fact, from the post I've seen on here, men should stop pursuing relationships all-together if they have the same mindsets you have.
You see women as property and only something to have hang on your shoulder. You don't think we're worthy of respect.

 

[neoexile]

100% correct and truth.

I consider myself a hopeful MGTOW. I do want to get married, but as of right now, way to risky. There are women out there who are marriage material, but it is like 2% of the population at this point, less if you count the ones in relationships.

I refuse to be part of any movement, but I have been fooled by the "women are victims" line in the past. No longer. I put myself first always.

Your entire post is bull**** and it's clear you hate women in general. If many men are like you and have your mindset I can see why women are done with men.

In fact, from the post I've seen on here, men should stop pursuing relationships all-together if they have the same mindsets you have.
You see women as property and only something to have hang on your shoulder. You don't think we're worthy of respect.

He's married and has a daughter? GG, you lose

 

[Raryn]

You basically just told me he doesn't want to be tied down, which essentially means he's not sure about a future with me. That's really all I need to know.

My friends were right. The clues were all there.

OP, Crayola doesn't know that. Neither do I, and likely neither do you.

What you need to do is quite simply sit down during a quiet evening with your boyfriend and bring up the future. That's it.

It's possible he's just clueless and responds he hadn't even thought about it at all. Some men are idiots that way.

It's possible he responds that of course he's planning on getting married to you, but it's a bad time to start working on that because he can't afford a ring/doesn't have time to plan a proposal/whatever.

It's possible he responds that he's not sure and he just likes things as they are.

It's possible he responds he doesn't believe in marriage at all.

Who the hell knows. The speculation above is mostly absurd. The only person who can answer your questions about your boyfriends motivations... is your boyfriend.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Dude seems to be married and have his stuff together. Haters gonna hate.

Your entire post is bull**** and it's clear you hate women in general. If many men are like you and have your mindset I can see why women are done with men.

In fact, from the post I've seen on here, men should stop pursuing relationships all-together if they have the same mindsets you have.
You see women as property and only something to have hang on your shoulder. You don't think we're worthy of respect.

 

[Raryn]

I refuse to be part of any movement, but I have been fooled by the "women are victims" line in the past. No longer. I put myself first always.



He's married and has a daughter? GG, you lose

This guy is married and has daughters too. Doesn't make him less of a sexist idiot.

 

[neoexile]

This guy is married and has daughters too. Doesn't make him less of a sexist idiot.

The OP accused the poster of hating women in general and saying he should stop pursuing marriage all together. He's been happily married for 7 years and has a daughter. GG she loses.

 

[Melanie2423]

These MGTOW men really are taking over. Sad to see. I'm willing to bet most are Trump voters.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Wait, you didnt agree with me, so that must mean you hate all the women, cannot compute arguement......resort to name calling..... and misogynist and racist, Islamophobic REEEEEEEEEEEE.

And women wonder why men are checking out of the marriage market.

The OP accused the poster of hating women in general and saying he should stop pursuing marriage all together. He's been happily married for 7 years and has a daughter. GG she loses.

 

[neoexile]

These MGTOW men really are taking over. Sad to see. I'm willing to bet most are Trump voters.

You are talking to someone who has an Islamic background and woke up 6 in the morning to vote Democrat in the last election. Not a Trump voter, but I do know reality when I see it

 

[GypsyHummus]

I did vote for Trump. Trump is my litmus test on judging people now. If you can not see why people voted for Trump, I can not see having a conversation with you. Doesnt mean you needed to vote for him, but just why people voted for him.

I give extra bonus points for women who voted for Trump in my date-ability index score.

These MGTOW men really are taking over. Sad to see. I'm willing to bet most are Trump voters.

 

[neoexile]

I did vote for Trump. Trump is my litmus test on judging people now. If you can not see why people voted for Trump, I can not see having a conversation with you. Doesnt mean you needed to vote for him, but just why people voted for him.

I give extra bonus points for women who voted for Trump in my date-ability index score.

Awww...I just found common ground with a Trump supporter. Feelsbad.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I know. I'm just a basket of deplorable

Awww...I just found common ground with a Trump supporter. Feelsbad.

 

[neoexile]

I know. I'm just a basket of deplorable

Perhaps MGTOW libtards and MGTOW Trumptards can unite and save this country!

 

[Crayola227]

This kind of proves my friends point. Usually a man doesn't need to be in a relationship that long before he knows you are the girl he wants to marry. 5-7 years and still no proposal?? They weren't going to marry you.

No, we knew what a big deal it was.

The first one never got over the break up, and it's been 10 years. He's still in love with me and wants to get back together. A lot of the issues he had were fear of commitment after being horribly abused by his mother. So I don't think the reason was that he wasn't that into me or whatever. We were also pretty young and it was both of ours' first relationship.

The next one wanted to get engaged more than once, the first time one half years in. I had the whole career thing going and I wanted to put it off. And don't even try to presume it was because I wasn't going to marry him.

Some people are just more conservative. I don't think you're wrong to feel the way you do, I'm just pointing out not everyone is like that. You are the one who came asking advice.

Not everyone thinks they are entitled to an engagement after ____ amount of time. Some people think it should happen when people are ready. Which for most people, isn't just because.

 

[Crayola227]

What is your view on marrying a Podiatrist? I heard they give excellent foot rubs

I loooooove podiatrists. No, really.

 

[darknecrosforte]

Your entire post is bull**** and it's clear you hate women in general. If many men are like you and have your mindset I can see why women are done with men.

In fact, from the post I've seen on here, men should stop pursuing relationships all-together if they have the same mindsets you have.
You see women as property and only something to have hang on your shoulder. You don't think we're worthy of respect.

It isn't hate to look at the current state of affairs between men and women now. I respect women by assuming they have moral agency and are equally capable of responding to incentives. The current legal system favors women. The social structure favors women. People get more upset at female rape than males getting raped (ie. it's not so bad when a female juvenile detention guard or teacher sexually grooms teen males, and when they get pregnant, the boy is legally ordered to provide child support despite having no say in the matter or any right to seek an abortion because it is HER choice).

But you're right. No need to look into how things really are or evaluate your assumptions. I MUST think my wife is property and something to display for all to see. Obviously there is no value in you appearing to empathize with men to a guy you are trying to get to "commit" to you.

 

[Melanie2423]

No, we knew what a big deal it was.

The first one never got over the break up, and it's been 10 years. He's still in love with me and wants to get back together. A lot of the issues he had were fear of commitment after being horribly abused by his mother. So I don't think the reason was that he wasn't that into me or whatever. We were also pretty young and it was both of ours' first relationship.

The next one wanted to get engaged more than once, the first time one half years in. I had the whole career thing going and I wanted to put it off. And don't even try to presume it was because I wasn't going to marry him.

Some people are just more conservative. I don't think you're wrong to feel the way you do, I'm just pointing out not everyone is like that. You are the one who came asking advice.

Not everyone thinks they are entitled to an engagement after ____ amount of time. Some people think it should happen when people are ready. Which for most people, isn't just because.

Not sure how old you were,but if you were very young that factors in.

 

[darknecrosforte]

This guy is married and has daughters too. Doesn't make him less of a sexist idiot.

That's a funny thing to bring up (cooking) because I actually started a Huel (complete meal replacement) subscription in order to free my wife from feeling any need to cook for me or do dishes. She was like "cool, I can play with the baby more".