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Anyone have the lowdown on BI, MGH, Boston Med? Pt. pop, trauma, reputation, general...
All opinions appreciated....
All opinions appreciated....
Boston Programs?
- Thread starter Riverjames
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Have you checked out saem?
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True, the SAEM website has that info. But I think opinions from peeps who rotated through one of those spots would be more helpful. I have interviews at MGH and BI in January, and am still debating on whether or not to go to them.
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My thoughts exactly. Need to narrow these down to 2 out of the 3 for interview purposes. Would greatly appreciate some first-hand info. Thanks!
I
Izlude_Tingel
HI there,
I think I might be able to answer this question as I am attending school here (Tufts) and also have interviews to all three. I also did an away at BIDMC so I can answer this as well.
BIDMC:
I did an away here and I had a really good time. The residents I met there were very nice and smart. The ones I talked to all said this place was there first choice and really liked being there. The PD, Dr. Rosen, is great. He really goes to bat for the residents and is very responsive to the needs of the programs. He is very pro-resident. As for the population, I think you get a good mix of patients from different demo. In terms of the trauma, they get very little of it, esp compared to BMC. I personally like the trauma aspect as I did a trauma rotation prior and had lots of trauma at my other EM rotation. In regards to location, it is in Longwood medical area, which is near Brigham and Childrens, so it is quite fancy (fancy for me). From my experience I think they had a pretty good relationship with the other services. In terms of academics, they are obviously into that, being big on sepsis research as I recall.
MGH:
I really can't comment on this, guess I'll see when I go there.
BMC:
I know a few who go there and have also done some rotations there. With respect to EM training, I think many people say it is probably the best of the three in regards to clinical training. It gets a lot of trauma, mostly penetrating if I can recall. I really can't comment of their academic aspect if research is your thing. It is located in a more shaddy part of town when compared to BIDMC and MGH, so you can guess the patient pop. But overall, I have heard alot of good things about here.
I hope this helps. Personally I am going to do 2 out of three as well. I didn't end up applying to prelims, so you can guess which one I am going to cancel. Feel free to ask questions.
I think I might be able to answer this question as I am attending school here (Tufts) and also have interviews to all three. I also did an away at BIDMC so I can answer this as well.
BIDMC:
I did an away here and I had a really good time. The residents I met there were very nice and smart. The ones I talked to all said this place was there first choice and really liked being there. The PD, Dr. Rosen, is great. He really goes to bat for the residents and is very responsive to the needs of the programs. He is very pro-resident. As for the population, I think you get a good mix of patients from different demo. In terms of the trauma, they get very little of it, esp compared to BMC. I personally like the trauma aspect as I did a trauma rotation prior and had lots of trauma at my other EM rotation. In regards to location, it is in Longwood medical area, which is near Brigham and Childrens, so it is quite fancy (fancy for me). From my experience I think they had a pretty good relationship with the other services. In terms of academics, they are obviously into that, being big on sepsis research as I recall.
MGH:
I really can't comment on this, guess I'll see when I go there.
BMC:
I know a few who go there and have also done some rotations there. With respect to EM training, I think many people say it is probably the best of the three in regards to clinical training. It gets a lot of trauma, mostly penetrating if I can recall. I really can't comment of their academic aspect if research is your thing. It is located in a more shaddy part of town when compared to BIDMC and MGH, so you can guess the patient pop. But overall, I have heard alot of good things about here.
I hope this helps. Personally I am going to do 2 out of three as well. I didn't end up applying to prelims, so you can guess which one I am going to cancel. Feel free to ask questions.
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Can't really speak to BWH/MGH or BMC, but I did my away at BIDMC.
Great program. The big strong points were the program director and chair as mentioned before, teaching (a component of the attending salaries is dependent on resident/student feedback), happiness of the residents, research (each year they put a ton of SAEM abstracts), the optional 4th year as a junior attending, high medical acuity of the patient population, and great computerized patient record/discharge instruction system. The 3rd year residents seemed pretty independent at the beginning of their 3rd years in running the entire ER (40 some patients) and listening to presentations. They seemed to get about 1-3 major blunt traumas per shift, but nothing penetrating. The only downpoints are that you lose out on some of the inner city pathology/trauma and public health issues (although some of the away ED rotations are supposed to make up for this). This program would prepare you well for a career in academics or in the community.
Great program. The big strong points were the program director and chair as mentioned before, teaching (a component of the attending salaries is dependent on resident/student feedback), happiness of the residents, research (each year they put a ton of SAEM abstracts), the optional 4th year as a junior attending, high medical acuity of the patient population, and great computerized patient record/discharge instruction system. The 3rd year residents seemed pretty independent at the beginning of their 3rd years in running the entire ER (40 some patients) and listening to presentations. They seemed to get about 1-3 major blunt traumas per shift, but nothing penetrating. The only downpoints are that you lose out on some of the inner city pathology/trauma and public health issues (although some of the away ED rotations are supposed to make up for this). This program would prepare you well for a career in academics or in the community.
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Anybody have any new information on BWH/MGH ? I have interviews at all three programs in Boston and I really only want to interview at one of them (travel cost, etc.)
Right now I am thinking BIDMC over Boston Medical (I am interested in academics), but I don't really know much about BWH/MGH. Any information on teaching, patient pops, facilities, area, etc. would be appreciated.
Med
Right now I am thinking BIDMC over Boston Medical (I am interested in academics), but I don't really know much about BWH/MGH. Any information on teaching, patient pops, facilities, area, etc. would be appreciated.
Med
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MedDeac said:
The BU program is probably the strongest in Boston. As for the Brigham/MGH program, I've heard that EM is kinda the red-haired stepchild at MGH. As mentioned previously BIDMC has a great computer system. Seemed fairly cush.
All in all, decent programs.
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As an intern at the Brigham/Mass General program I can answer some questions about the program. We spend about half our time at each institution (in addition to Children's and Mt Auburn), and there are some significant differences between the two institutions. The Brigham is our administrative "home", but we have offices, lockers, faculty, etc at both institutions (conferences rotate weekly between the two).
At MGH, I think it is true that since surgery ran the ED for almost 200 years up until about 10 years ago, there is some tension there, but to put things in context Harvard is one of the last big academic institutions to embrace EM and one has to recognize that fundamental changes take time (interestingly, this is not really an issue at the Brigham). However, MGH is an amazing place to train - basically the top residents from every specialty under one roof along with great nursing.
The strengths of the program that appealed to me were happy, fun and smart residents/faculty, the opportunity to train at some of the best hospitals in the country (and benefit from very strong residents/teaching in off-service rotations), living in Boston (don't underestimate the impact of which city you will be living in, especially if you are with a significant other), a veteran and receptive residency director, a nationally recognized yet accessible chairman, and a track record of program graduates going pretty much wherever they want as an attending.
If you thrive on penetrating trauma (we get enough to be competent by the time we finish but in general Boston does not see very much), require a place where EM has been entrenched since the early 80's and has completely sorted out all issues with other services, must find an apartment to rent for well under $1000 a month or absolutely can't stand the idea of training for 4 years it's probably not for you.
As you can probably tell I am very happy here and would be glad to answer any other questions you all may have. Good luck in finding the right place for you.
At MGH, I think it is true that since surgery ran the ED for almost 200 years up until about 10 years ago, there is some tension there, but to put things in context Harvard is one of the last big academic institutions to embrace EM and one has to recognize that fundamental changes take time (interestingly, this is not really an issue at the Brigham). However, MGH is an amazing place to train - basically the top residents from every specialty under one roof along with great nursing.
The strengths of the program that appealed to me were happy, fun and smart residents/faculty, the opportunity to train at some of the best hospitals in the country (and benefit from very strong residents/teaching in off-service rotations), living in Boston (don't underestimate the impact of which city you will be living in, especially if you are with a significant other), a veteran and receptive residency director, a nationally recognized yet accessible chairman, and a track record of program graduates going pretty much wherever they want as an attending.
If you thrive on penetrating trauma (we get enough to be competent by the time we finish but in general Boston does not see very much), require a place where EM has been entrenched since the early 80's and has completely sorted out all issues with other services, must find an apartment to rent for well under $1000 a month or absolutely can't stand the idea of training for 4 years it's probably not for you.
As you can probably tell I am very happy here and would be glad to answer any other questions you all may have. Good luck in finding the right place for you.
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Thanks bluejay. very helpful info. I just don't think I will be able to make multiple trips up to Boston so I will have to pick and choose from the three. Do you like the four-year format?
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The 4 vs 3 year program issue is a pretty hotly debated topic (there are plenty of threads on this discussion board). Invariably you'll seem to find residents saying "I can't imagine they train for X years" at both the 3 year and 4 year programs. These posts are usually colored by a good deal of bias and self-justification, so listen to everything with a grain of salt.
Here is my personal opinion (realize it's the opinion of an intern): do some research, ask defenders on both sides of the fence why they justify the presence or absence of a 4th year and then find out if it's a deal breaker for you (e.g., you found a program that had everything you would love in a residency BUT it's 4 years, so you would not consider ranking it at all). If it really is a deal breaker (for some people it truly is), then you can feel comfortable taking all 4-year programs off the table.
On the other hand, if you decide it's worth it, great. If you can't really decide for sure but know it's not a deal breaker that's fine too. So assuming you have decided that the 4th year concept is not a deal breaker, then you have to decide where it fits in with your priorities (location, people, etc). I remember thinking this was going to be a really huge issue for me before interviews, but it really tends to become less important as that rank deadline approaches and you have to consider things like "gut feeling".
I suppose that I understood both sides of the argument and it ended up being a less important issue for me at the end of the day; after I finished interviews, the Brigham/MGH program appeared to be such a great fit for me that the 4 year issue seemed less polarizing than I thought it would (for the record I ranked 3-year programs second and third and I also have an MBA so I most definitely appreciate the concept of opportunity cost). So I love the program but have mixed feelings about the 4th year - it's some nice flexibility and added experience at a significant cost.
To summarize for you, here are the general pro/con arguments that you will read or hear (I don't have the experience to validate many of these points, I'm merely passing them on).
PRO:
-More time for electives, research, off-service rotations and even time in the ED
-More likely to be hired straight out of residency at programs with a 4-year residency
-Flexibility for life events (e.g., maternity leave)
-More leadership/supervisory opportunities
-More fellowship opportunities
CON:
-Opportunity cost of 4th-year resident salary and work hours vs 1st year attending salary and work hours
-3 year residency plus 1 year fellowship may provide more/better job opportunities than a 4 year residency
Also, I am a big fan of 1-4 programs vs 2-4 programs; it's great to be at the same institution with the other interns I will be with for 4 years right now.
Let me know if I can answer anything else.
bluejay68
Here is my personal opinion (realize it's the opinion of an intern): do some research, ask defenders on both sides of the fence why they justify the presence or absence of a 4th year and then find out if it's a deal breaker for you (e.g., you found a program that had everything you would love in a residency BUT it's 4 years, so you would not consider ranking it at all). If it really is a deal breaker (for some people it truly is), then you can feel comfortable taking all 4-year programs off the table.
On the other hand, if you decide it's worth it, great. If you can't really decide for sure but know it's not a deal breaker that's fine too. So assuming you have decided that the 4th year concept is not a deal breaker, then you have to decide where it fits in with your priorities (location, people, etc). I remember thinking this was going to be a really huge issue for me before interviews, but it really tends to become less important as that rank deadline approaches and you have to consider things like "gut feeling".
I suppose that I understood both sides of the argument and it ended up being a less important issue for me at the end of the day; after I finished interviews, the Brigham/MGH program appeared to be such a great fit for me that the 4 year issue seemed less polarizing than I thought it would (for the record I ranked 3-year programs second and third and I also have an MBA so I most definitely appreciate the concept of opportunity cost). So I love the program but have mixed feelings about the 4th year - it's some nice flexibility and added experience at a significant cost.
To summarize for you, here are the general pro/con arguments that you will read or hear (I don't have the experience to validate many of these points, I'm merely passing them on).
PRO:
-More time for electives, research, off-service rotations and even time in the ED
-More likely to be hired straight out of residency at programs with a 4-year residency
-Flexibility for life events (e.g., maternity leave)
-More leadership/supervisory opportunities
-More fellowship opportunities
CON:
-Opportunity cost of 4th-year resident salary and work hours vs 1st year attending salary and work hours
-3 year residency plus 1 year fellowship may provide more/better job opportunities than a 4 year residency
Also, I am a big fan of 1-4 programs vs 2-4 programs; it's great to be at the same institution with the other interns I will be with for 4 years right now.
Let me know if I can answer anything else.
bluejay68
