boom...roasted, need advice

[taternator77]

Hey everyone, first time poster and complete noob to almost anything related to medical school. Anybody who is not in school yet will look at this post and say "thank goodness I'm not that guy". If you're in an advice giving mood and want to read this entire thing and give some advice, I would really appreciate it. I am around a lot of people who have applied/are applying/are in school, so I'm not totally lost, but could use some help. So here is my situation.

SUMMARY:
I am going to be completely honest in regards to my education and would hope to get completely honest replies. There's a reason I titled it "boom roasted".

THE BAD:
Currently as it stands, I would have NO chance at getting in anywhere with my current GPA. I am a 5th year student at my university, and finishing a degree in exercise science (anyone considering EXSC, don't do it). I am sitting on a 2.4 GPA. I have multiple C's in EXSC and in a couple science classes in general, in addition to a "C" in Gen Chem I, a "D" in physics I and an "F" in physics II. Now, I know what you're thinking, "get out of this profession, reconsider being a doctor". Here is the deal, I unfortunately have not started taking any college seriously until now. I had no earthly idea what I wanted to pursue (hence, doing a useless EXSC degree) until this very time in my life. I'm set, I'm ready, and I know what I want to do. I just need to know how to do it.

THE MEH(good?):
Recently, I have decided that I want to go to medical school, specifically osteopathic, based on my experiences through work in the ED. I have aquired over over 2000 scribing hours in my local emergency department, which has exponentially increased my knowledge, in addition to my confidence in a medical setting, as well as multiple mission trips and volunteer service hours. I have talked with my University COM, which I have good connections and relationships with. Also, I have not taken the MCAT yet, and due to my stupid EXSC major, I have had little room to take prereqs that would actually help me with the MCAT (and get into med school in general). My University COM will give a guaranteed interview to anyone who does a biomedical science masters degree and achieves a 3.5 or higher, and I have a good chance at getting into the masters due to my relationship with the director of the program. I have excellent letters of reference from professors, MD's, and DO's for my aptitude for medical school/graduate level work as well as a heart for service and a strong mental drive. I have received multiple leadership roles in all jobs I have had including scribing. I am also usually an excellent interviewee. So that's me.

Here's where I have to make a decision. Do I....

1. GO BACK, and take all those stupid C, D, and F classes to increase my GPA, as well as take the prerequisites I have not yet taken, and destroy them with A's. This would put me in ANOTHER year (winter and summer too) of undergraduate work, which I am confident I could do with good grades. Unfortunately for me, I cannot afford these classes (without more loans) at my university and I am basically stuck taking most of the classes at my current university due to the exclusiveness of the EXSC classes not offered anywhere else. I could take the science classes at a local CC, which is cost effective, but would that be beneficial for medical schools?

2. GO FORWARD (which may still be back), and apply to the masters of biomedical sciences program, which if I get a 3.5 will get an automatic interview to the med school and at least have a chance to explain why I sucked so much in undergrad, and how I have a clear line of sight of what I want/need to do for my family. According to the docs at the med school, the masters will essentially be my first year of medschool (but in 2 years), and will prepare me for the MCAT. In this case, I will have to take the GRE (not necessarily a bad thing, just another standardized test I have to take). Here's the catch, my wife works for the school in admissions and the biomedical masters would be free (long story short, not the case for my undergrad courses). Taking out more student loans for the undergrad portion may suck, but in the long run will be a drop in the bucket.

All right SDN, I cordially invite you to roast taternator77. I would rather not hear responses of 'you're hopeless' or 'go into something else'. This is what I have decided to do, and I will get it done one way or another. Thanks for the thought!

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[AsianPersuasion]

Take what I say with a grain of salt, but if I were in your situation, I would retake all those class and kill the MCAT. I don't know anything about the MS program or how school view those. I would consider this:

1) How much will it cost to do one or the other path?
2) How long will it be?
3) How much will it boost your GPA and how much will the MS program is taking into consideration of your CGPA and SGPA.

For me, if retaking all those bad classes and getting A will be more beneficial and raising my GPA higher than just doing the MS program which from the way you make it sound, is only good for that particular school, while raising your GPA from retakes will broaden your options. I don't know. Hopefully Goro or someone more knowledgeable can chime in. Just my opinion.

Good luck to you!

 

[ArsèneLupin]

The issue with the MS is your current GPa might not be high enough for acceptance into the program. Look into that...

 

[Shotapp]

That is great that you have determined what you want to do with your life. I would not jump into a masters program. All applicants must complete the required prerequisite coursework. Moving on to a masters program with no guaranteed admission will not help you fulfill those requirements. Medical schools care a lot more about your undergrad performance and the trend in your grades anyways. A strong recent upward trend with retakes will re-mediate your gpa. I would first retake some of your exercise science courses to bring your gpa to a 3.0 as well as your Chem I and Physics I and II that you mentioned. After that I would finish the prerequisite courses that you have left (Chem II, O Chem I and II, Bio Chem, Psych and Sociology) and don't forget to continue volunteering/doing clinical stuff. After you have completed the above, study for the MCAT like you are trying to find a cure to some disease. Do well on the test and apply early and broadly to DO schools (fastest path to becoming a physician) or if MD is your preference then apply to a SMP hosted at an allopathic school, Kill it (3.7 gpa), and apply.

 

[NonTrad16]

1) If you talk about your major and undergraduate experience at an interview like you do here, I think you'll be in trouble. You had an opportunity to change the major if it was so pointless to you, but even as a non-bio engineering major there's a lot I think I learned that could apply within medicine. Highlight the good, don't dwell on the bad.

More to the point:
2) Retaking poor past classes will likely be your best bet to improve your overall odds for admission to a DO school. Without it I don't know if other schools would even look at you, since your overall s/cGPA (after graduate work, which is included in the DO calculation) may still lie south of 3.0.
3) In your case, retaking classes at a comparable institution would be preferable. Failing or doing poorly the first time and excelling at a CC (whether it's easier or not) wouldn't look as good.

I'd calculate out what your GPA would be if you took the remaining required courses and grade-replaced all F's and D's, as well as the total time.
I'd then look at how much additional time/GPA bump you'd get for replacing more important C's (such as in a prerequisite or upper level coursework).
Finally, I'd do the same if you finish your prerequisites and enrolled in the MS.

I believe the grade replacement will likely have a bigger impact and will not take two years. Additionally, it should not be all that challenging if you've truly committed to this route. Well, not as challenging as the Biomedical Sciences MS could be. Importantly, doing so would improve your application at all DO schools, whereas the MBS may only land you that one interview (if you make the cutoff).

Last point: don't underestimate the MCAT. It's a beast which you need to make a sustained and committed effort to do well on. A lot of it will seem ridiculous and pointless, but it is what it is.

Good luck!

 

[WedgeDawg]

I don't have time to write out a full response, but here's the abridged version:

1) Go back and retake your classes, starting with Gen Chem and Physics (make those Cs, Ds, and Fs As and A-s instead). Do this until you have at least a 3.3 (preferably higher). Prioritize the premed classes over the exercise classes.

1.5) Take any premed courses you haven't taken

2) When you've retaken your classes (and not before), study really hard for the MCAT and take it, aiming for a 510+ (a 505 will be acceptable, but not ideal)

3) Once you've done that, come back and we will re-evaluate where you stand based on stats.

This is going to be a relatively long road, but it's doable.

 

[lnguyen1412]

If I were you, I will retake those bad classes and do well on the MCAT. It is never too late to realize what you really want to do

 

[PossibleDOC?]

Ok so as everyone has said before, retake all your poor grades, you need to do this there is NO CHOICE in the matter. Second, this SMP you're saying you can get into, unless you're donating a wing to the med school prior to applying, the director can't get you in (he only has so much say) and it will be tough to convince the deciding board that a 2.4 sGPA student is capable of getting a 3.5 (I don't know you personally obviously and neither will they so they will be selective). Finally, once you do the retakes, I suggest an attempt at the MCAT when you're 150% ready. Why would I do this you may be asking....simple, a 3.5 is a lot to ask for in a SMP, especially one where you take MS1 classes. Why limit to an all or nothing kind of thing, broaden yourself, you will need this, you need the flexibility because "reinvention" is now becoming common and you need to cast a wide net. Explaining bad grades is something all adcoms have heard and honestly I really don't think they can take it into account unless you've shown improvement over the years.

The road is long with this one but with hard work and a willingness to put some years into it you should be alright.

Good Luck

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

This is a tough one but I think you should go back to a community college or your university and redo your classes.
Getting a 3.5 at a master's program with an attached COM isn't as easy as it sounds. Many of the people in your class will likely have a significantly stronger science background than you and you might be eaten alive and then it will be impossible to get into a US school. Nothing is worse than doing poorly in a master's program. Also, I mentioned this before on these threads, but the new MCAT is HARD. You not only need a solid background in physics and general biology/chemistry but also biochemistry which is really tough. You will fail the MCAT if you take it without taking the proper pre-reqs.

You are young probably, maybe 22,23 if you are just finishing college. You're young. No need to rush. Take a year to do pre-reqs at a community college or better yet a university (if you can afford it) and then apply. Keep in contact with the directors and faculty and you should be golden.

 

[taternator77]

Wow. Thank you guys so much for the well thought out and respectful replies. You have no idea how much this has helped atleast shape a plan for where I need to go.

Will the DO definitely replace the last grade taken at any school? For example with the F in physics at my current school, can I take that somewhere else and it still replace the previous grade?

 

[mouster]

Retake the classes at a CC--better for your wallet and you still get the grade replacement. From my (limited) understanding, DO grade replacement works if the number of credits match up and the class description matches up (i.e. if you're trying to replace sophomore-level microbiology, you need to take a class with the same number of credits also about general microbiology...something like "tropical microbiology" wouldn't count because the course descriptions probably wouldn't match up).

From personal experience, I did a non-affiliated master's program to raise my GPA. I got some good experiences out of it (did some cool research and slayed my classes), but paying back student loan debt is PAINFUL...I've never missed a payment or even come close, but it definitely cramps your style and saving potential.

 

[zafonte86]

You sound a lot like my situation 5-6 years ago. Retake the classes and get a solid foundation in the sciences which you will need. Congrats on getting your head on straight, your mentality is going to make you a successful medical student and Doctor one day. Best of luck!

 

[Sardinia]

I'm more worried that the OP will get into the SMP program due to connections and then struggle to maintain a 3.5 tbqh. There's literally no respect being given to how hard it is to maintain above a 3.5 in a Masters COM program. If possible PM @Goro for advice, but I don't know how someone's interest in a program can be so lacking that it results in a 2.4 even with extenuating circumstances.

 

[mathnerd88]

My question is...how do you know that you're finally ready to go into medicine? Have you been getting all A's in the past year or two in your classes?

Have you even attempted the MCAT? Tried a practice test or two? If yes, what scores have you been getting?

I'm sorry if this post sounds blunt, but I haven't actually seen anything in your original post which would convey your academic ability to handle medical school.

It's great you have a set goal in mind now, but you're going to need to prove to adcoms you are ready for medicine academically. It may take a couple more years of retaking courses or doing an SMP with a killer MCAT score. Either way, your MCAT score is going to be extremely important now to erase any doubt of your ability to handle medicine, more so than your GPA.

 

[taternator77]

Unfortunately, I had been working about 70 hours per week in addition to being a full time married student that was in the process of buying a house. Plus, I did not care about school at all. These aren't excuses (they were my own decisions), as I should've done better anyways in the first place, but I couldn't afford to just live off of loans. My mistake was living life a little too soon, and I've learned how to compensate for that. I have a full time summer load currently and have cut back on hours, maintaining 100% in my classes (all 3 weeks of them woohoo). If I had made A's the past 2 years and had an upward trend in my grades, I probably wouldn't be posting about lack of direction. I have not had prereqs to even consider the MCAT because of my Exercise Science classes obviously not preparing me for the MCAT.

So, it looks like my plan will be to complete my C, D, F class(es) in the next year and absolutely destroy the classes. Also, I plan on buying some MCAT prep books and making them an appendage of my body. As a scribe, I tend to have some downtime which would be good to fill with studying. I appreciate the input and past experiences. It does give me some sliver of hope.

 

[IslandStyle808]

There are no guarantees in life, so you want to make the most opportunities available to you by applying to as many schools as possible.

So the retakes would be the better choice. At this point, you need to understand how to get good grades. Jumping into an SMP without an understanding of this will land you in a worse position than now. Plus with retakes you will radically boost your GPA without the same pressure of doing bad as with an SMP (even getting one C won't hurt you as bad, since you can "retake" the C). Then you can spread your net wide with applications to multiple schools. Retakes seem like the better option at this point.

 

[Goro]

Path 2.

Hey everyone, first time poster and complete noob to almost anything related to medical school. Anybody who is not in school yet will look at this post and say "thank goodness I'm not that guy". If you're in an advice giving mood and want to read this entire thing and give some advice, I would really appreciate it. I am around a lot of people who have applied/are applying/are in school, so I'm not totally lost, but could use some help. So here is my situation.

SUMMARY:
I am going to be completely honest in regards to my education and would hope to get completely honest replies. There's a reason I titled it "boom roasted".

THE BAD:
Currently as it stands, I would have NO chance at getting in anywhere with my current GPA. I am a 5th year student at my university, and finishing a degree in exercise science (anyone considering EXSC, don't do it). I am sitting on a 2.4 GPA. I have multiple C's in EXSC and in a couple science classes in general, in addition to a "C" in Gen Chem I, a "D" in physics I and an "F" in physics II. Now, I know what you're thinking, "get out of this profession, reconsider being a doctor". Here is the deal, I unfortunately have not started taking any college seriously until now. I had no earthly idea what I wanted to pursue (hence, doing a useless EXSC degree) until this very time in my life. I'm set, I'm ready, and I know what I want to do. I just need to know how to do it.

THE MEH(good?):
Recently, I have decided that I want to go to medical school, specifically osteopathic, based on my experiences through work in the ED. I have aquired over over 2000 scribing hours in my local emergency department, which has exponentially increased my knowledge, in addition to my confidence in a medical setting, as well as multiple mission trips and volunteer service hours. I have talked with my University COM, which I have good connections and relationships with. Also, I have not taken the MCAT yet, and due to my stupid EXSC major, I have had little room to take prereqs that would actually help me with the MCAT (and get into med school in general). My University COM will give a guaranteed interview to anyone who does a biomedical science masters degree and achieves a 3.5 or higher, and I have a good chance at getting into the masters due to my relationship with the director of the program. I have excellent letters of reference from professors, MD's, and DO's for my aptitude for medical school/graduate level work as well as a heart for service and a strong mental drive. I have received multiple leadership roles in all jobs I have had including scribing. I am also usually an excellent interviewee. So that's me.

Here's where I have to make a decision. Do I....

1. GO BACK, and take all those stupid C, D, and F classes to increase my GPA, as well as take the prerequisites I have not yet taken, and destroy them with A's. This would put me in ANOTHER year (winter and summer too) of undergraduate work, which I am confident I could do with good grades. Unfortunately for me, I cannot afford these classes (without more loans) at my university and I am basically stuck taking most of the classes at my current university due to the exclusiveness of the EXSC classes not offered anywhere else. I could take the science classes at a local CC, which is cost effective, but would that be beneficial for medical schools?

2. GO FORWARD (which may still be back), and apply to the masters of biomedical sciences program, which if I get a 3.5 will get an automatic interview to the med school and at least have a chance to explain why I sucked so much in undergrad, and how I have a clear line of sight of what I want/need to do for my family. According to the docs at the med school, the masters will essentially be my first year of medschool (but in 2 years), and will prepare me for the MCAT. In this case, I will have to take the GRE (not necessarily a bad thing, just another standardized test I have to take). Here's the catch, my wife works for the school in admissions and the biomedical masters would be free (long story short, not the case for my undergrad courses). Taking out more student loans for the undergrad portion may suck, but in the long run will be a drop in the bucket.

All right SDN, I cordially invite you to roast taternator77. I would rather not hear responses of 'you're hopeless' or 'go into something else'. This is what I have decided to do, and I will get it done one way or another. Thanks for the thought!

 

[taternator77]

Path 2.

Respectfully, would you please expound? I'm open to whatever would be best in regards to my education.
Thanks!

I've heard rumors to take what you say as gospel truth. lol

 

[Goro]

Path 2 is more risky, but brings the higher chances of success. Path 1 is faster, at least.

 

[mathnerd88]

Respectfully, would you please expound? I'm open to whatever would be best in regards to my education.
Thanks!

I've heard rumors to take what you say as gospel truth. lol

Agree with Goro if you can get that 3.5 GPA. Of course, you'll have to take the MCAT too.

Understand though, that one does not magically get a 3.5 straight out from a 2.4 GPA through just sheer determination. There has to be lots of near superhuman changes (behavioral, mental, etc) to be able to do so. You're being thrown into an academically difficult environment immediately. With path 1, you can make smaller changes and make classwork not as stressful all at once.

 

[abn632]

Lots of great advice in this thread. I'm personally in favor of you finishing your current degree as quickly as possible then going to CC to retake/redo classes. I think that if you can take a full-time load at a CC and sustain a 3.7+ GPA for at least two semesters, then you will have demonstrated that you have the capacity to succeed in a masters program. I don't mean to suggest that CC=masters. What I mean is that despite your life circumstances, you have thus far not demonstrated a strong academic ability - the ability to study, grind out the necessary hours, self-sacrifice, delay personal gratification for academics, etc. Contrary to the general belief that grad school is easy, I am 100% confident that the masters program that you're interested in is NOT a cakewalk. My SMP was f^&#*ng hard - and this was at a no-name DO school, and I'm really smart (or at least my wife tells me so).

A few other things to ramble on about: buying a house, working full-time, usefulness of the masters degree, geographical location.

Buying a house: why, o why did you buy a house?!?!! Burn it down, take the insurance money, and rent. Buying a house before you've even a started a career is like strapping a huge anchor to your leg.

Working full-time: do you have to work full-time? If not, stop immediately. If either you or your spouse needs to work full-time, it sounds like you need to have a frank discussion with her about the future of your family. School is usually flexible - work rarely is. You can always skip a class if you have to. You skip a day at work - you get fired. Your boss needs you to stay late? You need to work through the weekend? Between meeting quarterly numbers or allowing you to take your exam, guess which one your boss is going to prefer? It sounds like you need to have your wife start working while you scale back your hours. Go over your budget and eliminate the unnecessary items, and if necessary, take out some student loans.

Masters program: guaranteed interview =/= guaranteed acceptance. You'll still have to be a relatively competitive applicant to that COM. If you somehow manage to get accepted to the masters program with your current GPA and defy the odds and earn a 3.5+ GPA in the program, do you really think that you'll get in to the COM? The school will know you; they'll like you; but your undergrad GPA hurts the school's numbers by dragging down the average. If you're waitlisted, will you have other options? Is this masters degree useful in any other way other than getting you into COM? Is it a potential springboard into any other career? A PhD program? Anything? From my limited research and experience, most SMPs are useful for one thing and one thing only - getting you into the COM that offers the SMP, and nothing else. There's a good chance that you'll spend a lot of money for a degree that gets you to the finish line, but doesn't get you across the finish line. If you don't make it across the finish line, your degree is, for the most part, useless.

Geographical location: you're really putting all of your eggs in one basket if you don't fix your undergrad GPA. If you go straight into the masters program, no other school will consider you. Not a single one. If you want to increase your chances of a DO acceptance anywhere, you need to fix that GPA. It appears that your preference is to stay local - you have a house, married, it's a PITA to move, and there's a masters program right there, and a COM right there. If you get into the local COM, by all means, go there and stay local. But you need to hedge your bets by applying broadly to other schools, and no one will consider you with your current stats. If you are unwilling to move anywhere else, then you really need to consider a Plan B if you don't get in, and ensure that the actions and moves you make now will contribute to both your Plan A (med school) and Plan B.

I just realized how long my reply is, so I'll stop my rambling now. Whatever you end up doing, best of luck to you.

 

[taternator77]

Lots of great advice in this thread. I'm personally in favor of you finishing your current degree as quickly as possible then going to CC to retake/redo classes. I think that if you can take a full-time load at a CC and sustain a 3.7+ GPA for at least two semesters, then you will have demonstrated that you have the capacity to succeed in a masters program. I don't mean to suggest that CC=masters. What I mean is that despite your life circumstances, you have thus far not demonstrated a strong academic ability - the ability to study, grind out the necessary hours, self-sacrifice, delay personal gratification for academics, etc. Contrary to the general belief that grad school is easy, I am 100% confident that the masters program that you're interested in is NOT a cakewalk. My SMP was f^&#*ng hard - and this was at a no-name DO school, and I'm really smart (or at least my wife tells me so).

A few other things to ramble on about: buying a house, working full-time, usefulness of the masters degree, geographical location.

Buying a house: why, o why did you buy a house?!?!! Burn it down, take the insurance money, and rent. Buying a house before you've even a started a career is like strapping a huge anchor to your leg.

Working full-time: do you have to work full-time? If not, stop immediately. If either you or your spouse needs to work full-time, it sounds like you need to have a frank discussion with her about the future of your family. School is usually flexible - work rarely is. You can always skip a class if you have to. You skip a day at work - you get fired. Your boss needs you to stay late? You need to work through the weekend? Between meeting quarterly numbers or allowing you to take your exam, guess which one your boss is going to prefer? It sounds like you need to have your wife start working while you scale back your hours. Go over your budget and eliminate the unnecessary items, and if necessary, take out some student loans.

Masters program: guaranteed interview =/= guaranteed acceptance. You'll still have to be a relatively competitive applicant to that COM. If you somehow manage to get accepted to the masters program with your current GPA and defy the odds and earn a 3.5+ GPA in the program, do you really think that you'll get in to the COM? The school will know you; they'll like you; but your undergrad GPA hurts the school's numbers by dragging down the average. If you're waitlisted, will you have other options? Is this masters degree useful in any other way other than getting you into COM? Is it a potential springboard into any other career? A PhD program? Anything? From my limited research and experience, most SMPs are useful for one thing and one thing only - getting you into the COM that offers the SMP, and nothing else. There's a good chance that you'll spend a lot of money for a degree that gets you to the finish line, but doesn't get you across the finish line. If you don't make it across the finish line, your degree is, for the most part, useless.

Geographical location: you're really putting all of your eggs in one basket if you don't fix your undergrad GPA. If you go straight into the masters program, no other school will consider you. Not a single one. If you want to increase your chances of a DO acceptance anywhere, you need to fix that GPA. It appears that your preference is to stay local - you have a house, married, it's a PITA to move, and there's a masters program right there, and a COM right there. If you get into the local COM, by all means, go there and stay local. But you need to hedge your bets by applying broadly to other schools, and no one will consider you with your current stats. If you are unwilling to move anywhere else, then you really need to consider a Plan B if you don't get in, and ensure that the actions and moves you make now will contribute to both your Plan A (med school) and Plan B.

I just realized how long my reply is, so I'll stop my rambling now. Whatever you end up doing, best of luck to you.

Great advice, I wont respond to each aspect individually, however I will say, we went as far as almost closing on the house, then decided against it for that very reason! Thank GOODNESS! Also, I think I have decided I'm going to retake those crappy classes to boost my GPA in 1 year, while studying religiously for the MCAT. That way I can apply to more than 1 school like you suggested. If my COM likes me but my stats aren't good enough, they refer people down to the 1 year masters, at which point if you achieve a 3.5 its automatic acceptance. If it is the 2 year program however, it is just an automatic interview. I have no doubts the SMP is quite difficult but I would probably quit work and focus solely on that if admitted to the 1 yr program. Thanks for the post!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Yeah, do the retakes and then take the MCAT. If your MCAT isn't at or above your COMs MCAT average then it's really pointless to do the SMP. In that case go DO. But if you get all As in the retakes and have STRONG MCAT, then between that and your apparent connections with the COM, you might have a shot.

Edit: with the SMP.


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