Black women in neurosurgery..

[imanifaith]

Black women in neurosurgery are virtually impossible to find. Which is why I, a young black 15 year old female is pursuing a career in neurosurgery. I want to break that barrier and open the doors for other focused, driven young women like me who want a career in the medical field. One of my biggest role models is Ben Carson, which is who I aspire to be like someday. I hope in the future there are more women of color neurosurgeons. I am so happy to have found this forum, to interact with real professionals and to ask for advice.

I think I am probably the youngest person to come on here. lol

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[beaverfetus]

hey, I realize you are interested in neurosurgery and not transplant surgery, but here is an interview with an inspirational woman who was the first african american female practicing transplant surgeon in the US. She also trained with a legend of surgery, Starzle. Thought you might be interested in another lady who was into breaking down barriers.

I met her and I can personally say she's a cool lady.

http://www.amsa.org/surg/transp_int1.cfm

 

[imanifaith]

hey, I realize you are interested in neurosurgery and not transplant surgery, but here is an interview with an inspirational woman who was the first african american female practicing transplant surgeon in the US. She also trained with a legend of surgery, Starzle. Thought you might be interested in another lady who was into breaking down barriers.

I met her and I can personally say she's a cool lady.

http://www.amsa.org/surg/transp_int1.cfm

thank you =)

 

[VanDiemen]

Imanifaith,

I understand that is important to have role models, and it is a noble pursuit to want to serve as an inspiration for black youths, but DO NOT go into neurosurgery just to break barriers. Keep an open mind and find a specialty that you love. Neurosurgery is an extremely grueling field and you will not survive unless you love the field. My advice would be to work hard and explore all of your interests; don't worry about doing something based on what other people will think of you. A lot of med students change their mind about specialties. Ultimately, a very tiny percentage of a medical school's class decides to apply for a neurosurgery residency.
As time passes on and dedicated individuals continue to work for a level playing field in education, the demographics of medicine will shift on their own.

 

[imanifaith]

Imanifaith,

I understand that is important to have role models, and it is a noble pursuit to want to serve as an inspiration for black youths, but DO NOT go into neurosurgery just to break barriers. Keep an open mind and find a specialty that you love. Neurosurgery is an extremely grueling field and you will not survive unless you love the field. My advice would be to work hard and explore all of your interests; don't worry about doing something based on what other people will think of you. A lot of med students change their mind about specialties. Ultimately, a very tiny percentage of a medical school's class decides to apply for a neurosurgery residency.
As time passes on and dedicated individuals continue to work for a level playing field in education, the demographics of medicine will shift on their own.

Thanks for your advice, but I do not want to get into neurosurgery just to break barriers. I find this field the most interesting, I dont know if I will change my mind once I get into college..which I know might happen, but that is the field I am most interested right now.

 

[Griidle]

Dr. Douglas at Georgetown. She is nice, and does some good minimally invasive spinal work.
http://www.georgetownuniversityhosp...951508&UserAction=DoctorDetails&doctorid=5701

 

[beaverfetus]

Dr. Douglas at Georgetown. She is nice, and does some good minimally invasive spinal work.
http://www.georgetownuniversityhosp...951508&UserAction=DoctorDetails&doctorid=5701

im noticing a theme where these black female surgeons are going to med school...

 

[imanifaith]

im noticing a theme where these black female surgeons are going to med school...

I know its weird.
I always wanted to go to Colombia Med school or Harvard med.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Imani, I have to say-- we're pretty awesome for both diversity and neurosurgery. I do believe the first female resident we accepted into our neurosurgery program (who was herself a P&S grad) was Black (she ended up transferring out, but still completed training I believe). Maybe we'll see you in 7 years or so.

 

[bigdan]

I honestly cannot believe this P&S trend, but imani - check out a WONDERFUL person, and tremendous surgeon at my school: http://www.umc.sunysb.edu/surgery/dr-mclarty.html

Simply an awesome lady, and a great role model.

And, young lady, set your dreams as high as you can imagine. Never forget that hard work produces rewards, and that success is BY FAR the best revenge.

dc

 

[imanifaith]

Imani, I have to say-- we're pretty awesome for both diversity and neurosurgery. I do believe the first female resident we accepted into our neurosurgery program (who was herself a P&S grad) was Black (she ended up transferring out, but still completed training I believe). Maybe we'll see you in 7 years or so.

I hope so too.

 

[nsglady]

I'm a black woman trying to get into neurosurgery- I didn't match into neurosurgery the first time despite high board score, 3 sub-i's, and 3 chairman letters of reccommendation that were supposedly very good;I went to a competitive med schol;Everyone told me I would match but at the time I only got 7 interviews and ranked 6-The only thing missing from my application was significant research (I have one publication in an area remote from nsgy)..I have done my year of general surgery and currently in a research position, where I've already submitted abstracts for presentation-I'm applying again this year but I am afraid I will again not match-can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm a black woman trying to get into neurosurgery- I didn't match into neurosurgery the first time despite high board score, 3 sub-i's, and 3 chairman letters of reccommendation that were supposedly very good;I went to a competitive med schol;Everyone told me I would match but at the time I only got 7 interviews and ranked 6-The only thing missing from my application was significant research (I have one publication in an area remote from nsgy)..I have done my year of general surgery and currently in a research position, where I've already submitted abstracts for presentation-I'm applying again this year but I am afraid I will again not match-can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Well I think without specifics it'll be pretty hard to offer perspective on why you didn't match.

 

[soulofmpatel]

No offense imanifaith, but your goals are clearly motivated by superficiality and ego. In other words, you just selected credentials that would impress a layperson (an elite sounding specialty and two well known medical schools). You have some vague fantasy of curing people left and right while colleagues laud you, patients adore you, and young black women look up to you. A fantasy indeed! The truth of the matter is that there is no way that you could actually have a concrete understanding of what being a neurosurgeon entails at age 15. I'm a fourth year medical student, and I don't know much about the field. That you would pursue a certain field to break down imaginary sociocultural barriers is exceedingly base and naive. I dare you to save this thread as a word doc. I guarantee that you will laugh at yourself when you're 25.

 

[beaverfetus]

! The truth of the matter is that there is no way that you could actually have a concrete understanding of what being a neurosurgeon entails at age 15. .

like anyone has a realistic idea of their career choice when they are 15; hell, I still don't have a "concrete understanding" of what I plan on going into and that decision is looming. No reason to discourage her, and come off as a raging ahole in the process.

What are you trying to prove exactly? and to whom?

 

[njbmd]

I'm a black woman trying to get into neurosurgery- I didn't match into neurosurgery the first time despite high board score, 3 sub-i's, and 3 chairman letters of reccommendation that were supposedly very good;I went to a competitive med schol;Everyone told me I would match but at the time I only got 7 interviews and ranked 6-The only thing missing from my application was significant research (I have one publication in an area remote from nsgy)..I have done my year of general surgery and currently in a research position, where I've already submitted abstracts for presentation-I'm applying again this year but I am afraid I will again not match-can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

I will highly recommend that you sign up to do an AI at University of Virginia. They have a very well-respected Neurosurgery Department with some outstanding mentors. If you can get a good performance at UVa, and the blessing of Dr. John Jane, you will likely be golden in more than a few places. While you are there, look up Dr. David Hamilton (senior resident in Neurosurgery) and get some solid things from him. He's an outstanding resource and can point you in some good directions.

 

[soulofmpatel]

like anyone has a realistic idea of their career choice when they are 15; hell, I still don't have a "concrete understanding" of what I plan on going into and that decision is looming. No reason to discourage her, and come off as a raging ahole in the process.

What are you trying to prove exactly? and to whom?

I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was just responding in a way that came naturally to me. I felt that people who responded previously were being somewhat disingenuous in their responses.

 

[bigdan]

Disingenuous? It's cool to state your opinion, in fact, prolly better that you do, because she'll be dealing with naysayers for her whole career. But you're busting her chops for having no idea about neurosurgery. She's 15. It's a fair bet that a bunch of the docs interviewing us for medical school and residency spots are thinking "You have no idea what you're getting into", but they don't piss on our parades.

I see nothing wrong with supporting and encouraging someone's goals. She's allowed to change them whenever she wants - and maybe she will. But she's also allowed to have said goals. At least she's aiming high.

dc

 

[snicket]

No offense imanifaith, but your goals are clearly motivated by superficiality and ego. In other words, you just selected credentials that would impress a layperson (an elite sounding specialty and two well known medical schools). You have some vague fantasy of curing people left and right while colleagues laud you, patients adore you, and young black women look up to you. A fantasy indeed! The truth of the matter is that there is no way that you could actually have a concrete understanding of what being a neurosurgeon entails at age 15. I'm a fourth year medical student, and I don't know much about the field. That you would pursue a certain field to break down imaginary sociocultural barriers is exceedingly base and naive. I dare you to save this thread as a word doc. I guarantee that you will laugh at yourself when you're 25.

The last time I checked, children were allowed to have dreams and aspirations. It's what drives them to become a successful adult, even if they change their mind as they grow (which is most likely). It can be a fantasy, absolutely yes, but it will drive her in a direction that can only help her rather than hurt her.

I wouldn't mind at all if you were berating a pre-med for this; they should know better. But a 15 year old girl? Pathetic.

Oh, and imaginary sociocultural barriers? Again, ha. Keep on living in a f-ing dreamworld.



To the OP: Your drive and ambitions are admirable, there's no contest there. However, you will get a large amount of naysayers. For example, there's the above person, and people who think women (and women of color) are weak and undeserving. I assure you, you will come into contact with these kinds of folk. This may discourage you. If it does, perhaps it is for the best -- because neurosurgery is ABSOLUTELY F-ING GRUELING. It is extremely glamorized which makes people think it's not all that bad, but it is a tough, tough, tough residency. If you can't survive the naysayers, there's no way in hell you'll survive neurosurgery. In the meantime, though, I suggest to continue following your ambition -- and don't be afraid to change your mind. Nothing is writ in stone. I must say though, wanting to be a neurosurgeon just so you can break down barriers (which already have some considerable openings in them) is NOT the way to go about things. It's a great side effect -- but to do nsurg, you have to have a definite love for the field, or you Simply. Won't. Survive. The love for the field must come before all other aspirations. Delve into some independent neuroscience courses aimed towards high school students and see how you like it. Don't shy away from the dissections you have to do, and note how you can improve your fine motor skills.

It seems like you're being exceedingly idealistic, but you're only 15. I'll cut some slack. Because of your age, this counts as a huge aspiration. Follow it, but be realistic at the same time.

 

[imanifaith]

My aunt is actually in her last year of becoming a neurosurgeon.
I know what it entails.
Ive seen her go through hell and back.
Most people who have seen what she has gone through probably wouldnt not want to pursue that career.
But I do!
I fell in love with the brain, when we were studying biology in the 4th grade!!
I wouldnt want to become a nsurg if I didnt like the field.
Some of you seem to think of me as this dumb, naive little girl.
Im not like other 15 year olds....

 

[soulofmpatel]

The last time I checked, children were allowed to have dreams and aspirations. It's what drives them to become a successful adult, even if they change their mind as they grow (which is most likely). It can be a fantasy, absolutely yes, but it will drive her in a direction that can only help her rather than hurt her.

I wouldn't mind at all if you were berating a pre-med for this; they should know better. But a 15 year old girl? Pathetic.

Oh, and imaginary sociocultural barriers? Again, ha. Keep on living in a f-ing dreamworld.



To the OP: Your drive and ambitions are admirable, there's no contest there. However, you will get a large amount of naysayers. For example, there's the above person, and people who think women (and women of color) are weak and undeserving. I assure you, you will come into contact with these kinds of folk. This may discourage you. If it does, perhaps it is for the best -- because neurosurgery is ABSOLUTELY F-ING GRUELING. It is extremely glamorized which makes people think it's not all that bad, but it is a tough, tough, tough residency. If you can't survive the naysayers, there's no way in hell you'll survive neurosurgery. In the meantime, though, I suggest to continue following your ambition -- and don't be afraid to change your mind. Nothing is writ in stone. I must say though, wanting to be a neurosurgeon just so you can break down barriers (which already have some considerable openings in them) is NOT the way to go about things. It's a great side effect -- but to do nsurg, you have to have a definite love for the field, or you Simply. Won't. Survive. The love for the field must come before all other aspirations. Delve into some independent neuroscience courses aimed towards high school students and see how you like it. Don't shy away from the dissections you have to do, and note how you can improve your fine motor skills.

It seems like you're being exceedingly idealistic, but you're only 15. I'll cut some slack. Because of your age, this counts as a huge aspiration. Follow it, but be realistic at the same time.

I find it interesting how you vehemently criticized my post and then regurgitated a sugar-coated version of it. I generally have respect for teenagers and treat them as adults, sparring them no criticism. If she were eight, I would have said some variant of "aw...that's so cute" which would be an exceedingly condescending reply to a teenager.

 

[soulofmpatel]

I fell in love with the brain, when we were studying biology in the 4th grade!

Awww...that's so cute

...jk

 

[snicket]

I find it interesting how you vehemently criticized my post and then regurgitated a sugar-coated version of it. I generally have respect for teenagers and treat them as adults, sparring them no criticism. If she were eight, I would have said some variant of "aw...that's so cute" which would be an exceedingly condescending reply to a teenager.

You're right, that's exactly what I did.

I criticized your post because you offered nothing constructive -- it was discouraging. I do share some of the same views with you on this, but I spun our similar views into a way I deemed appropriate for a teenager. Sugar-coated? Definitely. Yet, some words of encouragement and recommendations of what she should do? Definitely there.

However, as you said, you have "respect for teenagers and would treat them as adults". So, it makes sense that you would get on either a pre-med or teen's case the same way. Personally, I don't treat teenagers like adults, because they are teenagers (and not adults, nor children). I simply treat them like teenagers.

Basically, it comes down to how we treat teens -- and I'm sure we can agree to disagree there.

 

[hotlikebutter]

Black women in neurosurgery are virtually impossible to find. Which is why I, a young black 15 year old female is pursuing a career in neurosurgery. I want to break that barrier and open the doors for other focused, driven young women like me who want a career in the medical field. One of my biggest role models is Ben Carson, which is who I aspire to be like someday. I hope in the future there are more women of color neurosurgeons. I am so happy to have found this forum, to interact with real professionals and to ask for advice.

I think I am probably the youngest person to come on here. lol

i think it's nice that you are looking this far ahead, and honestly that's what it takes. i wish i spent more time looking into medicine instead of going to the local hang out when i was at your age.

my advice: first off, never lose your goals while maintaining your childhood. there's nothing worse than a doctor who tries to save lives who doesnt even know what "life" actually means. try to find research during your summers or weekends. plenty of places love high school kids. i mentored a few kids at the NIH over the summer. But do something you like, not just to do it to put it on your resume/cv. then when it comes time for college look into the combined bs/md programs. then while in college look into the md/phd programs cause there is really not too many places for neurosurgeons today without research really.

good luck!

btw i am not a black female but I am going into nsx

 

[traumadramabee]

Disingenuous? It's cool to state your opinion, in fact, prolly better that you do, because she'll be dealing with naysayers for her whole career. But you're busting her chops for having no idea about neurosurgery. She's 15. It's a fair bet that a bunch of the docs interviewing us for medical school and residency spots are thinking "You have no idea what you're getting into", but they don't piss on our parades.

I see nothing wrong with supporting and encouraging someone's goals. She's allowed to change them whenever she wants - and maybe she will. But she's also allowed to have said goals. At least she's aiming high.

dc

Well said! I'm usually the farthest thing from an optimist, but it doesn't mean we need to stomp on a young girls dreams. We were all young girls once. Even the men. You know that period you went through before puberty?

However, that being said I think the original poster may be getting ahead of herself. It's a beautiful dream, but maybe you should do a general surgery internship and med school first. Good luck!

 

[BlondeDocteur]

It's a beautiful dream, but maybe you should do a general surgery internship and med school first. Good luck!

In that order, too. Then you'll really know if you have what it takes.

 

[traumadramabee]

In that order, too. Then you'll really know if you have what it takes.

Ha, I have been tending to a sick toddler all week and lack sleep. I'm a little scatter brained at the moment. Please forgive my error.

 

[skeeweedo]

Hey Imanifaith,

Here is another website to keep you motivated. Past it on to others. My medical school personal statement was concentrated on OBGYN...hated it. Then I did some 4th year Neurosurgery rotations...liked it. But my love affair is in orthopedics...love the spine and musculoskeletal system as a whole. Whatever you decide to do...stay encouraged. We are needed in every specialty.

God Bless,

Carissa

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/aframsurgeons/newfrontiers.html

 

[ANJ1104]

imanifaith,

Have you read the book "Gifted Hands" by Ben Carson, MD? Dr. Carson is not a woman, but he is African American and it is a great read.

Good luck!

Amanda

 

[Rolando]

Well, I find this highly reassuring that other minority youth are also transfixed by this medical profession. However, in contrast, I am a 14 year old Hispanic male. I was born in the United States, my parents were not, and I hope to contribute to a Hispanic Intellect movement within this country. It is widely known that our faction does not prioritize and place education as an obligation. I also have read books by Dr. Ben Carson and am amazed. Contact me for further interest if you'd lke, not too many teenagers can commt themselves to such a difficult aspiration. Thus, I rarely publicize my hopes for my future. Also, I hope to attend one of the more elite institutions that the USA has to offer.

Irrelevant to the question, being of Cuban origin, I would like to one day contribute my talents to a Cuban hospital. Do you have any suggestion? or how I may be able to achieve this? I am fully aware that the instability in Cuba can easily lead to a democratic Cuba, thus altering my plans. However, not only do I want to place myself in a medical environment, I want to gain perspective on my country of origin. Also, to see the underlying difficulties that comes with practicing medicine in Cuba, the Cuban life in general. To clarify any confusion, I do not want to receive my medical license there!

 

[JeffLebowski]

Well, I find this highly reassuring that other minority youth are also transfixed by this medical profession. However, in contrast, I am a 14 year old Hispanic male. I was born in the United States, my parents were not, and I hope to contribute to a Hispanic Intellect movement within this country. It is widely known that our faction does not prioritize and place education as an obligation. I also have read books by Dr. Ben Carson and am amazed. Contact me for further interest if you'd lke, not too many teenagers can commt themselves to such a difficult aspiration. Thus, I rarely publicize my hopes for my future. Also, I hope to attend one of the more elite institutions that the USA has to offer.

Irrelevant to the question, being of Cuban origin, I would like to one day contribute my talents to a Cuban hospital. Do you have any suggestion? or how I may be able to achieve this? I am fully aware that the instability in Cuba can easily lead to a democratic Cuba, thus altering my plans. However, not only do I want to place myself in a medical environment, I want to gain perspective on my country of origin. Also, to see the underlying difficulties that comes with practicing medicine in Cuba, the Cuban life in general. To clarify any confusion, I do not want to receive my medical license there!

You may be interested in reading about Roberto Heros.

 

[justace]

Not sure why one's race has anything to do with them going into ns or any field really. How about we admire Ben Carson bc he's a fantastic surgeon not bc he's AA. Pick a field bc you love it. The race issue should be a distant afterthought realized by political talking heads. No room for that in the OR.

 

[infarct]

Not sure why one's race has anything to do with them going into ns or any field really. How about we admire Ben Carson bc he's a fantastic surgeon not bc he's AA. Pick a field bc you love it. The race issue should be a distant afterthought realized by political talking heads. No room for that in the OR.

spoken like someone with no clue about what it means to be black in this country.

 

[justace]

i mean this with all due respect...

in this life, we are who we are due to hard work and perseverance. those are admirable things, those are things to strive for. i don't want to turn this thread into a commentary on the merits of race, but laying a foundation for any career (i.e. in this case neursurgery) based on the idea that few of a particular race go into it seems shallow at best.

Pick a career because first, you have unrelenting passion for it, something that you can't live without. Not because you want to be a role model, not because you want to be a pioneer. Life is too short to constantly be trying to live up to someone else's expectations. Live up to your own FIRST. If you want neurosurgery for those reasons, by all means go into the field. the role modeling, the pioneering that will follow automatically.

As far as your comment towards my "attitude", don't use race as a crutch in your life. If you do, you will constantly be disappointed and blame everything on that. Use your mind, your skills, and your passion.

 

[fishsnack]

Regardless of all the cute reasons you may have for going into this field. It's all mute when youre 6 years into your residency and you have to see your 20th bs consult that day. You'll realize that no one cares about your accomplishments, if you don't love what you do youll hate yourself.

Also, as a premed, the chances that you'll end up in NS are so slim at this point it doesnt even matter to have this conversation.

Its good that you have drive and passion. But really, live your life. Readress this issue when it starts mattering in a decade from now

 

[jacobus]

Teens are way to serious these days.

 

[jaqydoc]

Regardless of all the cute reasons you may have for going into this field. It's all mute when youre 6 years into your residency and you have to see your 20th bs consult that day. You'll realize that no one cares about your accomplishments, if you don't love what you do youll hate yourself.

Also, as a premed, the chances that you'll end up in NS are so slim at this point it doesnt even matter to have this conversation.

Its good that you have drive and passion. But really, live your life. Readress this issue when it starts mattering in a decade from now

I am in medical school currently, and really laughed out loud when I saw what the OP posted. You see, I too am a black female considering neurosurgery. The OP's post is just so filled with candy-coated butterflies, unicorns and rainbows, and made me wish I was back to those days of naivete'.
Unfortunately, things are not always as great as it seems and I agree with many of the members, including the one that I quoted above, who said to live your life and you will probably laugh at yourself in 10 years when this actually becomes relevant.