Bison Mediastinum Question

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Phoenixrising24

Phoenixrising24

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I'm a medical student, and I was pimped recently by a thoracic surgeon--the question was "how were Native Americans so successful in stopping multi-ton buffalo with single arrow shots?" Answer, theoretically and substantiated only by hunting lore, is that some large percentage of bison do not have an intact mediastinal membrane, and thus what might ordinarily be a unilateral pneumothorax in fact becomes a complete bilateral pneumothorax, which accounts for the seemingly disproportionate injury from a single shot that penetrates into/through the pleural cavity.

After spending a couple of hours searching, I cannot find any reasonable atlas or peer-reviewed source that substantiates this (though there's a fair amount of medical literature on humans that references "buffalo chest"). Are there any DVMs or veterinary students who can comment or point me in the direction of some reliable resources?

Thanks in advance! :D
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In canine anatomy we were taught that some species have fenestrated mediastinum. All I remember is that it is fenestrated in the dog leaving the possibility of bilateral pneumothorax unlike humans where it isnt. No idea off hand on buffalo.

And for a reference:

"Anatomy of Domestic Animals, 10th Ed." by Pasquini. Page 318 "In places the mediastinum is just formed by the contact between the two mediastinal pleurae. Such places may be fenestrated (perforated)."

Same page in a clinical box "Fenestrations or perforations in the mediastinum: normal in the dog, horse and sheep; not found in the ox, goat,pig or young animals of any species. In theory these could allow a unilateral pneumothorax or pyothorax to become bilateral."
 
I as well recall the opposite. The mediastinum in the ox (read cow, bison is similar) have a patent division that can withstand a puncture with only a unilaterally collapsed lung. They also have relatively wide ribs, making the intercostal spaces smaller. Maybe a heart shot, right behind the olecranon? I found the quote on the relative prevalence of bilateral pneumo in Pasquini as well. Hmm. How long would a perforated rumen take to bring a bison down I wonder. :idea:
 
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This post is illustrative of the bull**** third year med students have to put up with. In case the vet students didn't know, what the OP is referring to as "pimping" is the practice of ritual humiliation in front of other med students and residents when making clinical rounds with the senior attending physicians. It also takes place often on surgery rotation in the operating room, where the surgeon is king in his castle. It usually starts with a regular question, eg doing a hernia operation the prof will quizz the student on the anatomic borders of Hesselbach's triangle. Of course, no props for a correct answer. The prof then asks something like "what town was Hesselbach born in" or "who was his favorite composer". When the student does not know the answer, he/she gets reamed, along with any other med students in the OR. Now the secret is that the night before, the prof has tipped off the resident on the case what the answers to the pimping questions are, so naturally when the prof asks the pimp question to the resident, the correct answer comes right away, further embarrassing the med student. It's all part of the process of dehumanization of med students, which helps us become such kind caring physicians.
 
Cruzinman said:
This post is illustrative of the bull**** third year med students have to put up with. In case the vet students didn't know, what the OP is referring to as "pimping" is the practice of ritual humiliation in front of other med students and residents when making clinical rounds with the senior attending physicians. It also takes place often on surgery rotation in the operating room, where the surgeon is king in his castle. It usually starts with a regular question, eg doing a hernia operation the prof will quizz the student on the anatomic borders of Hesselbach's triangle. Of course, no props for a correct answer. The prof then asks something like "what town was Hesselbach born in" or "who was his favorite composer". When the student does not know the answer, he/she gets reamed, along with any other med students in the OR. Now the secret is that the night before, the prof has tipped off the resident on the case what the answers to the pimping questions are, so naturally when the prof asks the pimp question to the resident, the correct answer comes right away, further embarrassing the med student. It's all part of the process of dehumanization of med students, which helps us become such kind caring physicians.
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Well since y'all have had such a soft ride before, and will after, welcome to our everyday world. Those who can, do, those who can't go to med school! :laugh: Props to you, we love y'all as much as you do us. Seriously, glad to answer the ? as best as we could. Hope we can ask the same silly ?'s with impunity when we have ? about primate medicine. Have a good one. :thumbup:
 
We were just asked in our surgery rotation who "Sue" the T. rex was named after... I suppose it's sort of animal-related, but I can't remember the last time a dinosaur came into the teaching hospital!
 
Thanks all for your input, and for humoring a med student's silly question--I do realize it's a bit absurd, but I was genuinely curious and just wondered if anyone smarter and better informed than myself knew of such a thing off-hand. If anyone has other thoughts on topic, I'd love to hear them (the MD vs. DVM angst was *not* where I wanted this to go! We all work damn hard, and I have all kinds of :love: for my DVM colleagues).

Happy New Year everyone!
 
Not a vet student yet, and I can't say anything on the anatomy side, but I do know that it generally took multiple shorts to kill a bison...
 
Too lazy to look it up right now, as anatomy was two years ago--but there is definite variability in the strength of the mediastinum across species. Horses have a very weak (or very strong--can't remember) mediastinum, for example.

I also would agree that the broad, flat ribs of the bovine would make it difficult to kill in one shot.

Hell, they can survive for months with a piece of metal penetrating through their reticulum (one of the forestomachs)-->diaphragm-->pericardium and creating literally gallons of purulent fluid in there...they're pretty tough.

Re: "pimping" med students--sounds completely pointless and like your clinicians/house officers have waaay too much time on their hands. Argh.
 
alliecat44 said:
Re: "pimping" med students--sounds completely pointless and like your clinicians/house officers have waaay too much time on their hands. Argh.
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Your clinicians don't pimp you guys during clinics? Oh man, we get asked all sorts of obscure questions during my orthopaedic surgery elective. Like what is the name of the radiographic sign you see during certain kinds of Salter-Harris fractures. Talk about obscure! Even our surgery resident didn't have any idea. It's the Thurston-Holland sign found in type II and IV S-H fractures, incidentally... :rolleyes:

On topic, I don't remember crap about the mediastinum, but I do remember that bison have an extra (14th) rib versus the Bos taurus/indicus breeds.
 
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