Biophysics Grad Student in Texas

[jldub]

The story of my life below is a re-post of my thread on the nontraditional student forum. Please feel free to skip to the bottom for my stats

I started college as a rad tech major and did 1 year of basic, 1 year of radiological sciences classes and then one summer of clinicals (40hrs a week working for free learning to take x-rays in "real life"). I decided that I couldn't see myself doing this for the rest of my life and wanted to do something more prestigious, for lack of a better word. I switched over to a BS in Physics program (same state school) and ended up graduating in 2011. As far as academics are concerned, I graduated with a 3.73 overall and a 4.0 in my science classes (mostly physics but I also took chemistry and A&P).

During my sophomore/junior year, my grandfather who I lived with and my wife's (then girlfriend) dad were both diagnosed with throat cancer. It was during this time that I considered specializing in medical physics or switching to pre-med but since I was already far along in my physics major I decided to stay that route. My grandfather eventually died from the cancer as it spread to his stomach and blood but my wife's dad fought it off.

Last year, my wife had a liver rejection. She had a liver transplant when she was 6 and has had 1 or 2 rejections since. I mention this however because it was immediately after I graduated so for a couple months I didn't work or do any postgrad work due to this. Also, her father has had a difficult time related to his cancer and after she recovered she had to drop out of school in order to help him. In light of all this, I enrolled in a masters program in physics (I am a part of the biophysics research group and I will be doing research related to medical imaging and radiation) that will not only pay my tuition but I also get paid enough to pay our bills so that she can take care of her father and then finish school while I can make some money for us.


During this whole process I have come to realize that I want to interact more directly with patients than medical physics will allow me and I would like to go to med school after I get my masters. However I feel a few things may negatively impact me. Firstly, I do not have any medical related volunteering or shadowing because I have just not decided I would like a career in medicine. I am planning on changing this immediately but I'm afraid even if I start now until I get my masters in 2 years that my lack of experience during undergrad years will cast a shadow on me. Secondly, as a physics student I don't know how the adcomms will see me as a non chem/bio major and mid to late 20's student. I have a lot of undergrad awards and scholarships but they are all related to physics.

Undergraduate:
-3.73 Overall GPA B.S. Physics minor in Mathematics. 4.0 science GPA (A's in all of my physics classes, general chemistry, mathematics and 2 semesters of A&P)
-Chemistry Lab TA for 1 year followed by Physics Lab TA for 2.5 years during which time I was promoted to senior TA and all other physics TA "reported" to me (a great leadership experience as I led not only undergrads in their labs but the other lab TA's)
-Received about 8 different academic scholarships
-Calculus student of the year, Physics student of the year two years in a row, Physics TA of the year two years in a row

Graduate:
-Possible Masters In Physics with a concentration in Biophysics
-Planning on taking biomedical imaging next semester
-Will be doing research related to medical imaging
-Most likely will be on graduate student council (there are no physics reps so I should be a shoe in)\
-Teaching astronomy lab to non-science majors

EC:
-Over 200 hours of free tutoring during undergrad years.
-20 hours helping teachers at a local elementary school set-up their rooms for the upcoming year.
-10 hours performing science experiments for 2nd and 3rd graders at the same school
-Although not technically volunteering I have rescued 7 dogs and found all of them permanent homes (animal care/rescue is a big interest of mine)
-Amateur astronomer (briefly performed research in galaxy formation of dwarf irregular galaxies as an undergrad and spent many nights at my mothers in the country with my telescope tracking objects)
-Build computers for family and friends (easily over 20 already. Something I really enjoy doing. NOT A+ certified though)
-Worked as a substitute for 3 months (not really relevant to my med school desire but I did it because I love to share my love of learning. Also, money lol)
-Although not an EC, I will have/have been helping take care of my father in law who has a stomach tube and a recent trache tube. This experience is one of the main factors in my pursuing of more direct patient interaction though so I want to work it in somewhere

Right now the biggest area I am lacking is shadowing and medical related volunteering (and volunteering in general really). During my year in radiology, I did work a summer in the hospital and took radiographs as well as saw how a radiologist works. However, this was years ago (5 or so) but I was at least exposed to the medical world. I am planning on volunteering all summer and also getting as much shadowing as possible before I apply.

Given my GPA now and let's say I get a 30 on the MCAT (I don't see any reason this isn't doable) what are my chances of getting accepted as a somewhat nontraditional student (28yrs old physics major w possible masters in physics)? If it helps/matters I am a TX resident but plan on applying to as many OOS schools as seems reasonable as well as all TX schools. I would welcome any comments/suggestions/questions.

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[Danlee07]

how are you fitting in the undergrad courses? does your council know about this?

 

[jldub]

No I just now decided that I am interested in pursuing med school. I am not allowed to have any outside work besides my grad duties/studying but they do let me sit in on any class I want (including classes in other majors). I am planning on talking to my adviser about my hopes and seeing what he says (in a couple weeks when he gets back).

 

[jldub]

Is there anyone out there with experience/knowledge of chances of applying with a masters and/or a major such as physics (not the traditional chem or bio)?

I may be able to take both o chem and micro this summer which would just leave biochem to take sometime in the future but before I invest the money and time I am just wondering if it's possible for me to get in.

 

[Jamie561]

I am just wondering if it's possible for me to get in.

Yes.

If liberal arts majors get in in droves every year, why should you be worried as a physics major? The only caveat to your CV is that you need volunteer/clinical/shadowing experience. Your 9000 awards for teaching/doing physics will mean little to medical school adcoms. This is not because of your field, but because you need to jump through the same hoops as every other premed.

 

[jldub]

Thank you for a response. I have just started researching medical school admissions and hadn't realized that medical schools accepted anyone but bio and chem majors (except for an extremely small percentage of non traditional majors).

I started out as a radiological sciences major (rad tech) and did do an entire summer of clinicals. Granted I made B's both semesters but I do at least have that.

Is there any number of volunteer and shadow hours I should treat as a minimum to increase my chances? (Would having 200 hours of volunteering provide me with an appreciable advantage over having 50 hours).

 

[Jamie561]

Is there any number of volunteer and shadow hours I should treat as a minimum to increase my chances? (Would having 200 hours of volunteering provide me with an appreciable advantage over having 50 hours).

Yes. In fact 200 hours of volunteering is on the low side for the average matriculant. I will direct you to Catalystik (search for her posts), who frequently posts with average hours listed on AMCAS for shadowing, clinical experience, and volunteering.

Bear in mind that shadowing, volunteering, and clinical experience are absolutely central to your application. Just as a sub-3.0, sub-30 applicant has no chance at medical school, an applicant who has not demonstrated a commitment to medicine through ECs will not get in. I would absolutely recommend that you get started with these activities. Continuity will count for a lot, since you're already at risk of being portrayed as jumping ship.

 

[jldub]

I will search for Catalystik and read up on her posts. Thank you for the advice.

In what way will I be seen as jumping ship? I was planning on becoming a Medical Physicist but this year when I started my graduate studies the boards that certify medical physics changed the rule on who can sit for the boards to only students from an accredited school and my school is not one of these. My passion is for medical science and helping people and this is the reason I am now considering med school.

 

[jldub]

I have also tutored undergrad students in physics for years (none of these paid were paid positions either just did it for the experience and to help out student). I am assuming I would need to put this on my CV/application and it would count as EC. I also try to do as many charity 5K's as possible.

Would this count as an EC that med admiss would like to see? I am worried because my EC's were not very consistent during my undergrad years and I had no real medical related EC's. I am planning on stepping it up significantly in the coming two years as I work on my masters; I just hope this isn't scene as an issue that would prevent me from being seriously considered.

 

[Jamie561]

In what way will I be seen as jumping ship?

Your activities have exclusively (as far as you have written) been in academic physics and you are now pursuing medicine, which is a clinical, person-centric career. As far as your underlying motivations are concerned, actions speak louder than words.

I have also tutored undergrad students in physics for years (none of these paid were paid positions either just did it for the experience and to help out student). I am assuming I would need to put this on my CV/application and it would count as EC. I also try to do as many charity 5K's as possible.

Would this count as an EC that med admiss would like to see?

Sure it is, but don't miss out on the meat and potatoes. The core of your application is, as I've stated above, shadowing, volunteering, and clinical experience. It would be wrong for me to say that adcoms "won't like" to see your tutoring experience and 5K's, but still, we're talking about the best use of your time. Signing up for more tutoring shifts and 5K's will not improve your application much beyond what it already is.

 

[jldub]

Thank you very much for your response and honesty.

Do you think if I do significant community service, volunteering at hosp, shadowing over the next 2 years (minimum time before I'm considering applying) that I would be able to "erase" the disadvantage I have compared to someone who's known they want to become a doctor since they started undergrad?

EDIT: Would it perhaps be a better candidate to a DO school rather than an MD?

 

[Jamie561]

Thank you very much for your response and honesty.

Do you think if I do significant community service, volunteering at hosp, shadowing over the next 2 years (minimum time before I'm considering applying) that I would be able to "erase" the disadvantage I have compared to someone who's known they want to become a doctor since they started undergrad?

EDIT: Would it perhaps be a better candidate to a DO school rather than an MD?

I think 2 years is more than enough time for you. What will you be doing in the meantime? Will you remain in school?

MD is definitely within reach, unless you prefer DO for some reason.

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[jldub]

If I get accepted to the state school I applied for summer classes, I will be taking ochem 1 and 2 during summer 1 and 2 sessions and volunteering/shadowing during friday and saturday when I'm not in class.

If I don't, I will be doing volunteering/shadowing as much as possible this summer.

Either way I plan on volunteering for a few hours every weekend for the next 2 years and every week+ break I will try to shadow. I will be working fulltime on my masters starting in the fall and start working on research in medical imaging/radiation.

 

[jldub]

Anyone else have any input on my chances? If it makes a difference I'm a texas resident and I'll be applying to all texas schools (except maybe Baylor and UTSW) and as many others as I can find.

 

[jldub]

Last bump. I have updated my EC list and provided as much info as possible.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Last bump. I have updated my EC list and provided as much info as possible.

Well I personally don't believe that there is a set rule that every candidate must have done medically related volunteering and shadowing. I had very little medical volunteering and shadowing compared to the average candidate. I had other sorts of experiences (some entrepreneurial, lots of teaching and research). And I really think it was because of those that I got admitted. I interviewed everywhere in texas where I applied. And I got prematched to UTH and just got accepted to UTSW as well. So, honestly, don't discredit yourself if you don't fall into the general premed mold. You are an individual with a compelling story. If you can express how through different experiences you've understood your calling in life, then I think you're a great candidate. You've gone throguh some powerful experiences and you can write an excellent personal statement. As long as you have your premed requirements fulfilled (1 year gen chem, 1 year orgo + labs, 1 year bio + labs, 1 year physics + labs (that should be done atleast ), 1 year english), you have a decent shot at an acceptance. Though by no means am I saying that you shouldn't volunteer at a hospital or something. It will only help your application. But I'm only saying that who cares if you don't have that same experience that everyone else has? You have other experiences that most people don't have. You will stand out and that's a good thing. I say this because I got accepted to UTSW and UTH after working in a hospital environment for a grand total of perhaps around 60 or so hours (including volunteering and shadowing).

 

[cyanide12345678]

Anyone else have any input on my chances? If it makes a difference I'm a texas resident and I'll be applying to all texas schools (except maybe Baylor and UTSW) and as many others as I can find.

And why would you not apply to UTSW? It will only cost you some 10 or 15 more dollars to apply to that. Baylor would be an extra 160 bucks and a lot of time to fill out AMCAS, but UTSW is just another 10 dollars and one more short essay.

 

[jldub]

Thank you for the response. I am hoping the adcomms would see me as a more unique candidate than a traditional 22yr old bio major but I've just started this process and still trying to find things out.

As for SW, I had thought (perhaps wrongly) that it was much harder to get into than other texas schools. I simply meant when it comes time to apply for texas schools and oos schools, I'm not someone who thinks they need to go to Baylor for a good education but I want to be realistic as far as my stats compared to the average stats of other students.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Thank you for the response. I am hoping the adcomms would see me as a more unique candidate than a traditional 22yr old bio major but I've just started this process and still trying to find things out.

As for SW, I had thought (perhaps wrongly) that it was much harder to get into than other texas schools. I simply meant when it comes time to apply for texas schools and oos schools, I'm not someone who thinks they need to go to Baylor for a good education but I want to be realistic as far as my stats compared to the average stats of other students.

Well all I know is that with a 30+ and a 3.7 you still have a shot at southwestern. Not the greatest shot, but still none the less a chance. I know I got in with a 3.9 and a 31. So theres no reason to not to go for it.

 

[jldub]

Any idea on how adcomms will see a CC credit for Org 1, 2, Biochem and one other bio course? It looks like that will be my only choice while I work on my masters and work in labs and research full time

 

[Jamie561]

Any idea on how adcomms will see a CC credit for Org 1, 2, Biochem and one other bio course? It looks like that will be my only choice while I work on my masters and work in labs and research full time

Not ideal but if its your only option...

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[Ruminate]

Hey, so I think after 2 years you will have enough hours. I don't think it has to be some long exposure, just enough to realize what you're doing.

when are you going to take your MCAT though? Because I'm in your type of situation, but I'm trying to plan it out. If I don't take the 2015, I'd have to apply by 2014. That leaves me to defend by then, but if something goes awry and it gets extended, then I'd have to push it back...meaning more studying, and more coursework.

Are you going to take the coursework along with your master's coursework? Seems like a lot.. and what's your excuse for taking undergraduate coursework?

 

[jldub]

I'm not entirely sure of my plan right now. Ideally, I just won't enter the masters program this fall and find a job that's flexible enough for me to get off for a bit each week to take classes (if I can't find it offered at night) and apply either this next year (spring summer 2013) or the year after (spring summer 2014). I haven't looked at when the MCATS are available yet or how "new" versions work (I'm not sure what you mean in your post by 2015 but I'm assuming it will be a new version). If I do go forward with my masters I'm hoping on taking night classes at a CC.

I really don't have any desire anymore to work on anymore physics degrees since I've decided to pursue medicine. I'm afraid if I do a masters I'll just be getting to med school much later and have to put a lot of work into a degree that I don't really desire any more and that will only marginally help my application. It seems like it would be more beneficial to work and focus on getting A's in my pre-reqs I need to finish than to try to get A's in my masters classes and fit in my pre-reqs. Of course if I do this then I won't have nearly as much time to establish a more consistent shadowing and volunteering schedule.

 

[Ruminate]

I found out about the new MCAT out in 2015 from premed orientation,which introduced me to this site...but check these links out that I searched:
http://206.82.221.135/showthread.php?p=11781726
and
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=12577294

Yeah I guess if you don't want to do physics anymore then drop it. But from your first post it seemed like you wanted to pursue it still. I would do the masters not because it would neither help nor hurt but rather because you want to learn more about medical physics; you have a great GPA. Maybe you would pursue this field as a physician? I'm still trying to figure out this decision too.

Although learning is great, if you are set medicine,then juggling masters coursework and undergrad will consume so much time. I'm still quite unsure so I guess what I can say is first find out if you really want to do the masters.

What's your coursework load for master's?

 

[jldub]

Thank you for the MCAT links. So far I've been struggling to figure out how to fit in pre-reqs with a masters program, whether or not to pursue the masters, providing for my family, etc and have put most thoughts of the MCAT in the back of my mind.

My courseload is 9hrs of classes a semester which will consist of electrodynamics, quantum mechanics, mechanics, solid state physics, thermodynamics and then specific research classes depending on research group. Besides that I have to teach labs which can add up to about 15 a week between teaching them and grading (my school requires a page essay for almost every lab. Stupid for a physics class really and it just makes my grading take that much longer).

My problem with pursuing a masters and getting in to medical physics is that it is getting more "regulated" I guess you could say. As many careers in the medical field, in order to work as broadly as possible and move up you need to be certified by boards and this is true for medical physics too. However, just this year the rules for who can take the boards changed to only graduates of a certified medical physics program (of which there are significantly less than pure physics grad programs). I think that's fairly stupid as my view would be that if you can take and pass the boards then it doesn't matter where you got a degree but I digress. I just can't justify working 2 years on a masters and then possible 3 more after that for a PhD in a field where I will be severely limited in the jobs I can find simply because of new regulations and the school I went to.

Between the above and my recent experiences with sick family members, I want to be more involved with taking care of patients and have a career in medicine. I feel like no matter what I do I can make it into medical school eventually. Perhaps I'm impatient but if I know that's my ultimate goal I feel like I should start working on getting in immediately. It's a really tough decision but I see scenarios:

A) Go to the masters program. I will get paid enough to support myself but between studying, labs, research and other school related activities I will be working 40+ hrs a week. PROS: research experience. More time build a more consistent shadowing and volunteering schedule. Possible advantage of having a masters to distinguish myself from the pack. CONS: May not be able to take pre-reqs until after I finish. If I do take them during masters program, I run the risk of my graduate gpa dropping or not getting A's in my pre-reqs. Much less time for shadowing and volunteering. Will take longer to get into medical school (3-4 yrs). MCAT not taken for at least 2 years most likely

B) Find a job and take as many pre-reqs in the following 2 semesters. PROS: Will be able to apply this next year. Possible more time to study, volunteer, shadow and be sure to crush the pre-reqs. Will be able to take the MCAT in the spring. CONS: Working for 2 years when I could have been working on an advanced degree. Have to take out more loans. Trying to find a job that I can make enough money to support us but have enough time to study will be difficult.

 

[Ruminate]

A medical physics doesn't sound like a necessity right now. The pros you wrote don't really seem like pros? I bet you can obtain research experience through a local industry/school with your current resume, whether it's a job as an assistant or free. Pre-reqs,grades,research are priorities,but most importantly a job is. I lack the clinical exp,so I'm doing shadowing and volunteering through people I know while I do this; I want to pursue my field so I think i'll stick with it.

But i think to meet your most important need -- a job -- would be to get a certification(i.e. phlebotomy,EMT,scribe,etc). I know several others doing this in their off year,and when I looked into phlebotomy and EMT, my local community college provided a 6 month class. You could either try to find one in the hospital that gave you certification or take 6 months of unemployment, but that's much shorter than the master's route... The jobs around where I'm at give $25/hr for 38 hrs/week for phlebotomy,and I'm not sure about EMT. The hours are huge blocks though, like Sat 8 am - 8 pm.

 

[jldub]

I will definitely be discussing all this with my family in the coming weeks. It will be tough to choose between an advanced degree and time to slowly take pre-reqs and working a full time job but getting to the application sooner. Either way I guess the good news is I have a chance (it seems like at least) to make it to medical school sooner or later and that's what's important to me.

 

[jldub]

Does anyone know of any doctors or hospitals in the DFW area that are willing to let me shadow them? I'm not sure where to start looking really besides possible looking up any teaching hospitals in the area and start emailing randomly.