Best plan of action for a horrible GPA

[Sixen]

Hello,

kinda new around here so I’m not sure if this has been answered a million times over. I have a more unique experience I suppose.

Ill start with my stats:

cGPA: 2.72
sGPA: 2.65
MCAT: 511
~2000 clinical hours
150 non clinical volunteer
50 additional shadowing hours (was for podiatry)
~1000 hours of undergraduate research

academic dismissal first semester sophomore year for very poor academic performance (0.8 gpa)

returned to my university, strung together some sub par semesters around 2.8 - 3.0 and then ended out my last 3 with 3.5+ (Final being a 3.9). I know this isn’t good.

so, here’s where I’m at.. I ended up submitting to almost every DO school and I’m also interested in podiatry. However, I know this GPA isn’t going to get me very many looks. I’m preparing to do some sort of post-bacc work but I’m unsure the route that I should go. My application was received and I noticed that a lot of DO schools don’t have minimum GPA requirements. Or at least they told me that. So I’m kind of stuck here on what I should be preparing for. Should I be looking to complete a DIY post-bacc at an institution or try my luck with a 1-2 year masters program? There is definitely more value later on with a masters program but I feel like my undergraduate GPA is what everyone is going to be looking at.

Also, if I plan to go the DIY post-bacc route, should I plan to do these at my local community college or at a 4 year university. My local community college is definitely one of the better ones in the nation but they obviously still don’t offer any upper level science courses that I would really like to take. If anyone knows the best plan of action.. I’m all eyes.

p.s if I messed anything up I typed this off my phone real fast.

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[Kardio]

Even with your upward trend and respectable MCAT, I’m not confident that you’ll land a DO acceptance this year.

If I were you, this is exactly what I’d do:
1. Cross my fingers and hope for some luck this app cycle
2. Behave like you’re rejected and try to build an application like you’re gunning for Harvard
3. Apply to SMPs around Spring of 2022. Attend the cheapest one (or perhaps one with very tight linkage).
4. (optional) Depending on your personal goals, SMP performance, and if you’re interested in MD - consider retaking the MCAT and aim for a killer score. In the range of 520. In my experience, folks who ace SMPs and crush the MCAT can get solid MD acceptances.

@Goro helped me get accepted to a solid DO program. He’s got some good advise and a guide for ‘reinvention’ somewhere around this forum.

 

[Sixen]

Even with your upward trend and respectable MCAT, I’m not confident that you’ll land a DO acceptance this year.

If I were you, this is exactly what I’d do:
1. Cross my fingers and hope for some luck this app cycle
2. Behave like you’re rejected and try to build an application like you’re gunning for Harvard
3. Apply to SMPs around Spring of 2022. Attend the cheapest one (or perhaps one with very tight linkage).
4. (optional) Depending on your personal goals, SMP performance, and if you’re interested in MD - consider retaking the MCAT and aim for a killer score. In the range of 520. In my experience, folks who ace SMPs and crush the MCAT can get solid MD acceptances.

@Goro helped me get accepted to a solid DO program. He’s got some good advise and a guide for ‘reinvention’ somewhere around this forum.

My only problem with the SMP route is that a lot of programs have minimum GPAs and won’t even look at me. I know that they are very competitive and some programs offer gauranteed interviews if you pass a certain performance threshold.

it would take a lot of admissions emails to see if I could work around some of these minimums. Even if that’s the case, and I do crush a masters program.. I don’t want to be filtered out on another app cycle because of undergraduate GPA. Very high risk high reward.

 

[Kardio]

My only problem with the SMP route is that a lot of programs have minimum GPAs and won’t even look at me. I know that they are very competitive and some programs offer gauranteed interviews if you pass a certain performance threshold.

it would take a lot of admissions emails to see if I could work around some of these minimums. Even if that’s the case, and I do crush a masters program.. I don’t want to be filtered out on another app cycle because of undergraduate GPA. Very high risk high reward.

I don’t think SMPs are as competitive at you think. You’re also bringing a respectable MCAT score to the table.

Don’t think too much about the “guaranteed interviews.” Schools can give away interviews without any intention of accepting you. It seems like a marketing tactic to me. Worry about being the kind of applicant schools want to get, not the kind they’re merely required to interview.

The <3 GPAs could be a problem come app time. I have no experience with that problem so I won’t comment.

SMPs are crazy expensive but are the best option for some people.

 

[Sixen]

I don’t think SMPs are as competitive at you think. You’re also bringing a respectable MCAT score to the table.

Don’t think too much about the “guaranteed interviews.” Schools can give away interviews without any intention of accepting you. It seems like a marketing tactic to me. Worry about being the kind of applicant schools want to get, not the kind they’re merely required to interview.

The <3 GPAs could be a problem come app time. I have no experience with that problem so I won’t comment.

SMPs are crazy expensive but are the best option for some people.

I appreciate the feedback! I will definitely be looking into a 1 year masters program. If anyone here has any recommendations that would be great. If not, I’ll get to research. This will be a long road but this is what I want so I’m going to get it.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Ever consider PA school? Going to med school will be a loooooooooong road.

 

[Faha]

Which schools did you apply to ? A DIY post bacc at a local college would be be a good strategy. Take enough undergraduate level science courses to increase your sGPA to 3.0 .

 

[Goro]

Hello,

kinda new around here so I’m not sure if this has been answered a million times over. I have a more unique experience I suppose.

Ill start with my stats:

cGPA: 2.72
sGPA: 2.65
MCAT: 511
~2000 clinical hours
150 non clinical volunteer
50 additional shadowing hours (was for podiatry)
~1000 hours of undergraduate research

academic dismissal first semester sophomore year for very poor academic performance (0.8 gpa)

returned to my university, strung together some sub par semesters around 2.8 - 3.0 and then ended out my last 3 with 3.5+ (Final being a 3.9). I know this isn’t good.

so, here’s where I’m at.. I ended up submitting to almost every DO school and I’m also interested in podiatry. However, I know this GPA isn’t going to get me very many looks. I’m preparing to do some sort of post-bacc work but I’m unsure the route that I should go. My application was received and I noticed that a lot of DO schools don’t have minimum GPA requirements. Or at least they told me that. So I’m kind of stuck here on what I should be preparing for. Should I be looking to complete a DIY post-bacc at an institution or try my luck with a 1-2 year masters program? There is definitely more value later on with a masters program but I feel like my undergraduate GPA is what everyone is going to be looking at.

Also, if I plan to go the DIY post-bacc route, should I plan to do these at my local community college or at a 4 year university. My local community college is definitely one of the better ones in the nation but they obviously still don’t offer any upper level science courses that I would really like to take. If anyone knows the best plan of action.. I’m all eyes.

p.s if I messed anything up I typed this off my phone real fast.

Applying now with those GPAs are simply donations.

Do a DIY post-bac or an SMP.

 

[Sixen]

Ever consider PA school? Going to med school will be a loooooooooong road.

Not necessarily. I don’t think that I’m in any rush and I’m willing to work for the things that I want. A couple extra years of my life improving an application is a small price to pay for a lifetime in a career that I’m passionate about.

also, from what I understand, getting into PA school is fairly competitive too. And a lot of schools also have 3.0 cutoffs. At that point if I’m still going to do additional schooling I would just pursue DO schools - especially because besides my GPA, my MCAT and ECs are decently competitive.

 

[Sixen]

Which schools did you apply to ? A DIY post bacc at a local college would be be a good strategy. Take enough undergraduate level science courses to increase your sGPA to 3.0 .

I applied to almost every DO school in the nation. Also, I think this is a good route because from what I’m seeing I can get 50-60 credits in for a fraction of the price that I will get an SMP for. Also it may help with pre-screening criteria that a handful of schools have. Thank you!

 

[Doc_Ock]

Not necessarily. I don’t think that I’m in any rush and I’m willing to work for the things that I want. A couple extra years of my life improving an application is a small price to pay for a lifetime in a career that I’m passionate about.

also, from what I understand, getting into PA school is fairly competitive too. And a lot of schools also have 3.0 cutoffs. At that point if I’m still going to do additional schooling I would just pursue DO schools - especially because besides my GPA, my MCAT and ECs are decently competitive.

Not to harp but "besides my gpa" is like a car salesman saying "the engine is completely broken but check out these leather seats!" I don't think you realize just how abysmal that gpa is.
It's also about time, too. Assuming you pick a field with a shorter residency (3 years), accounting for the time it would take you to build yourself up as an applicant you'd be looking at a decade or more before you're done with school and training. As someone who had to go through something similar I honestly don't think it's worth it.
You said you're interested in podiatry, have you inquired with any of those schools?

 

[Sixen]

Not to harp but "besides my gpa" is like a car salesman saying "the engine is completely broken but check out these leather seats!" I don't think you realize just how abysmal that gpa is.
It's also about time, too. Assuming you pick a field with a shorter residency (3 years), accounting for the time it would take you to build yourself up as an applicant you'd be looking at a decade or more before you're done with school and training. As someone who had to go through something similar I honestly don't think it's worth it.
You said you're interested in podiatry, have you inquired with any of those schools?

No I totally understand. The GPA is bad. I am still applying for podiatry and have been reaching out to a few schools that I’m interested in to see their take.

however, I have been in contact with a SMP over at PNWU-COM that told me about their program and if I do well, I could be on track to enroll at their institution in the fall of 2023. So I still do see light in some areas. I’m not looking for MD acceptances, I know those are out of reach. And I feel as though if I can bring my gpa up to a 3.0 or place highly in an SMP, I might have a chance at somewhere less recognized.

 

[Sixen]

Applying now with those GPAs are simply donations.

Do a DIY post-bac or an SMP.

Have you heard of the MAMS program at PNWU? Any thoughts on it?

 

[Doc_Ock]

No I totally understand. The GPA is bad. I am still applying for podiatry and have been reaching out to a few schools that I’m interested in to see their take.

however, I have been in contact with a SMP over at PNWU-COM that told me about their program and if I do well, I could be on track to enroll at their institution in the fall of 2023. So I still do see light in some areas. I’m not looking for MD acceptances, I know those are out of reach. And I feel as though if I can bring my gpa up to a 3.0 or place highly in an SMP, I might have a chance at somewhere less recognized.

"On track to enroll at their institution" be sure and get all the details ironed out AND IN WRITING. A lot of schools are becoming wishy-washy with their SMP's and linkage.

 

[Goro]

Have you heard of the MAMS program at PNWU?

Nope.

 

[Sixen]

"On track to enroll at their institution" be sure and get all the details ironed out AND IN WRITING. A lot of schools are becoming wishy-washy with their SMP's and linkage.

I will keep this in mind and make sure I understand fully how the process works. I appreciate your help.

 

[Sixen]

Nope.

Not to be a nuisance but are there any SMP programs with DO linkages that you have in your mind off the top of your head? I figured I should reach out to a few and address my situation. That way I can continue to get my name out there before applying for the next program cycle.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Not to be a nuisance but are there any SMP programs with DO linkages that you have in your mind off the top of your head? I figured I should reach out to a few and address my situation. That way I can continue to get my name out there before applying for the next program cycle.

NSU (BUT DO NOT GO), PCOM advertises linkage but I've never even heard of someone actually linking, WesternU Pomona. Avoid the Touros, trust me. I think VCOM might but I'm not sure.

 

[Osminog]

You’d get into podiatry school without an SMP. For DO, you’d need one.

 

[deleted1100659]

I would personally say to at least try to get into the newer DO schools. If you can avoid spending excess money, always a good thing. Most DO schools are fairly comparable in quality and will have little impact on the residency you get into.

One thing that can help; calling/emailing schools to show your interest. Not even lying. People do value a heartfelt call/email explaining why you want to bet here. It may get your application a look that it would have not otherwise gotten.

Back in my day i did kind of a DIY post bacc, but while this can be good, if you have a ton of credit hours it can be incredibly hard to bring up your GPA. Im not familiar with how grade forgiveness works these days, but years ago there was 1-2 classes you could retake and theyd count the new grade instead of the old one, which made a good difference.

 

[Doc_Ock]

I would personally say to at least try to get into the newer DO schools. If you can avoid spending excess money, always a good thing. Most DO schools are fairly comparable in quality and will have little impact on the residency you get into.

One thing that can help; calling/emailing schools to show your interest. Not even lying. People do value a heartfelt call/email explaining why you want to bet here. It may get your application a look that it would have not otherwise gotten.

Back in my day i did kind of a DIY post bacc, but while this can be good, if you have a ton of credit hours it can be incredibly hard to bring up your GPA. Im not familiar with how grade forgiveness works these days, but years ago there was 1-2 classes you could retake and theyd count the new grade instead of the old one, which made a good difference.

Unfortunately they famously did away grade replacement with absolutely no warning several years ago.

 

[Sixen]

Unfortunately they famously did away grade replacement with absolutely no warning several years ago.

This is one of the reasons my GPA took a huge hit. So unfortunate.

 

[Sixen]

I would personally say to at least try to get into the newer DO schools. If you can avoid spending excess money, always a good thing. Most DO schools are fairly comparable in quality and will have little impact on the residency you get into.

One thing that can help; calling/emailing schools to show your interest. Not even lying. People do value a heartfelt call/email explaining why you want to bet here. It may get your application a look that it would have not otherwise gotten.

Back in my day i did kind of a DIY post bacc, but while this can be good, if you have a ton of credit hours it can be incredibly hard to bring up your GPA. Im not familiar with how grade forgiveness works these days, but years ago there was 1-2 classes you could retake and theyd count the new grade instead of the old one, which made a good difference.

Funny you say that I’ve literally been power emailing all the program/admissions directors that I can. A lot of them actually gave me phone calls back and told me that I would be a great applicant for their SMPs regardless of their GPA minimums. So I have opened a few doors for myself, hopefully my application crosses the right person on the right day.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Funny you say that I’ve literally been power emailing all the program/admissions directors that I can. A lot of them actually gave me phone calls back and told me that I would be a great applicant for their SMPs regardless of their GPA minimums. So I have opened a few doors for myself, hopefully my application crosses the right person on the right day.

When they say "you'd be a great candidate for our SMP" what they mean is "we'd be happy to take your tuition money." Unfortunately SMP's have become a cash cow cottage industry driven by profit and its only getting worse. Do extensive research.

 

[Sixen]

When they say "you'd be a great candidate for our SMP" what they mean is "we'd be happy to take your tuition money." Unfortunately SMP's have become a cash cow cottage industry driven by profit and its only getting worse. Do extensive research.

Well I’m curious. Even at any program, wouldn’t it not matter if I had a stellar class average and performed really well? That’s kind of scary tbh.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Well I’m curious. Even at any program, wouldn’t it not matter if I had a stellar class average and performed really well? That’s kind of scary tbh.

No not necessarily. The Turo CA masters program for example (which I was accepted to but declined) USED to have only 15-16 people, and all of those people had a spot for matriculation. Then they saw dollar signs, quadrupled the class size so now only the top 25% stands a chance. So now you have ulcer-inducing competition in an already stressful environment. "Guaranteed interview" doesn't mean jack s***. I interviewed at 6 or 7 medical schools who all turned me down, an interview is by no means anything special.

 

[Sixen]

No not necessarily. The Turo CA masters program for example (which I was accepted to but declined) USED to have only 15-16 people, and all of those people had a spot for matriculation. Then they saw dollar signs, quadrupled the class size so now only the top 25% stands a chance. So now you have ulcer-inducing competition in an already stressful environment. "Guaranteed interview" doesn't mean jack s***. I interviewed at 6 or 7 medical schools who all turned me down, an interview is by no means anything special.

Gotcha. I had spoken with the director at PNWU-COMs MAMS program and he told me that 27/36 students (who passed over an 85 average) were admitted to their DO program after interview. So I feel like this is a program worth my time to consider.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Gotcha. I had spoken with the director at PNWU-COMs MAMS program and he told me that 27/36 students (who passed over an 85 average) were admitted to their DO program after interview. So I feel like this is a program worth my time to consider.

Their average is an 85? That's very high for an SMP.

 

[Sixen]

Their average is an 85? That's very high for an SMP.

Yeah this is what the director told me. However, I’m not worried about it. If I can’t do stellar in an SMP then I shouldn’t even think about pursing medical school.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Yeah this is what the director told me. However, I’m not worried about it. If I can’t do stellar in an SMP then I shouldn’t even think about pursing medical school.

That's very mature and accurate. There are people on here with less than a 3.0 from an SMP still insisting they can get in. They're going to waste years of their lives before they accept reality.

 

[Sixen]

That's very mature and accurate. There are people on here with less than a 3.0 from an SMP still insisting they can get in. They're going to waste years of their lives before they accept reality.

Of course, it’s only reasonable. So I feel as though I got one last chance to prove to myself and admissions committees that I’m capable. If not, then another career choice is probably best.

anyway, thanks for your help! I’ll be sure to update this thread when I know what I’m going to do for next fall. Not that anyone cares but it’ll be fun to look back on this and see what happened

 

[Keepcalmpremd]

Contact a few med schools and talk to their admissions counselors directly. Every school won’t do this, but there are schools that will. That’s where you’d get the best insight

 

[Sixen]

Contact a few med schools and talk to their admissions counselors directly. Every school won’t do this, but there are schools that will. That’s where you’d get the best insight

Yep I have. A lot of them have recommended that I complete their masters program. I figure at this point it’s obviously because of my low GPA and then they know that if I do well, they squeezed me of an extra 40k plus 4 years of medical tuition. Looks like this is my route and the best one in fact. None of them recommended undergraduate post-bacc work. All of them said for me to join their programs.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Yep I have. A lot of them have recommended that I complete their masters program. I figure at this point it’s obviously because of my low GPA and then they know that if I do well, they squeezed me of an extra 40k plus 4 years of medical tuition. Looks like this is my route and the best one in fact. None of them recommended undergraduate post-bacc work. All of them said for me to join their programs.

Lol they don't want your tuition dollars going elsewhere

 

[Sixen]

Lol they don't want your tuition dollars going elsewhere

Lol yeah that is what I assumed. However, if they are quality feeder programs then I’m not really too upset about it. Give me an interview and I’ll crush it that’s all I ask for!

 

[deleted1100659]

You know besides your GPA the rest of your app looks stellar for DO school. I think if you get past GPA cutoffs for schools you may have a chance. If I saw your app my thought would be "clearly theyre invested in this, they show determination, they made some bad choices (we all do when were young) but theyre doing what they can to show dedication". I was someone who didnt have a stellar GPA but did well on MCAT second attempt (huge increase from first) and i had a ton of interviews/invites because schools really were impressed by upward trend. Resilience is a big part of medicine.

 

[Keepcalmpremd]

Yep I have. A lot of them have recommended that I complete their masters program. I figure at this point it’s obviously because of my low GPA and then they know that if I do well, they squeezed me of an extra 40k plus 4 years of medical tuition. Looks like this is my route and the best one in fact. None of them recommended undergraduate post-bacc work. All of them said for me to join their programs.

Aamc does have a list of masters snd post baccs, I think a master program would be better

 

[Calizboosted76]

I was accepted with a 2.6 cGPA and a 2.9 sGPA with over like 170-200 credit hours. I only scored a 506 on my MCAT. Oh and I was accepted to two schools and got an interview at a third that I declined.

I also had an upward trend of a 3.8 around 60 credit hours over the course of a year an a half. I will say, I was also rejected from a school and then reached out to them inquiring and was then given a secondary. Do a DIY postbacc and advocate for yourself if this is something you want to do.

 

[EricMD2022]

I do not think you are here to hear that "I have lower stats than you but I get in", or "someone matched into plastic surgery from St George". This is my suggestion do a DIY post-bac at least for two years with a full load of all 300 and 400 science classes each semester and ace them. The result might bump your cumulative GPA to 2.9. Then the next you can apply or do an SMP then apply. Do not think DO schools will take low stat, I believe All DO schools want high stat students. Those with subpar stats getting in may have a very good story in their personal statement. Good luck

 

[KirksvilleKrunk]

I had a lower GPA but similar MCAT and now I'm a second year DO student. I took 1 year of post-bac classes at a local CC. Cumulative and sGPA were still below 3.0 after retakes. Did not do SMP and I would NOT recommend it. Some of my friends did SMP, did poorly (but still graduated) and ruined their med school chances for any med school.

 

[dial1010usa]

Try TUNCOM. I went thru their SMP program and accepted to their medical school and I'm not 4th year. I would call them.
I was accepted to MAMS as well but I picked TUNCOM over MAMS for SMP.
All the best!

Admission Requirements - Medical Health Sciences - Touro Nevada

Read the requirements and application process for Touro Nevada’s Medical Health Sciences program. Learn more!

tun.touro.edu

 

[Shotapp]

Lol yeah that is what I assumed. However, if they are quality feeder programs then I’m not really too upset about it. Give me an interview and I’ll crush it that’s all I ask for!

Touro University Nevada
"If you are enrolled in the Medical Health Science (MHS) Program, your Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine applicant GPA will be revised and your grade replacement will be approved using the final attempt at repeated courses for the subsequent application cycle. This is only done for students enrolled in the MHS Program. As an MHS applicant, you must meet all admission requirements prior to matriculation into the program and adhere to the AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy when submitting your AACOMAS application. The recalculation will occur after you submit your AACOMAS application."

 

[Sixen]

Try TUNCOM. I went thru their SMP program and accepted to their medical school and I'm not 4th year. I would call them.
I was accepted to MAMS as well but I picked TUNCOM over MAMS for SMP.
All the best!

Admission Requirements - Medical Health Sciences - Touro Nevada

Read the requirements and application process for Touro Nevada’s Medical Health Sciences program. Learn more!

tun.touro.edu

Thanks for that!

 

[Sixen]

I had a lower GPA but similar MCAT and now I'm a second year DO student. I took 1 year of post-bac classes at a local CC. Cumulative and sGPA were still below 3.0 after retakes. Did not do SMP and I would NOT recommend it. Some of my friends did SMP, did poorly (but still graduated) and ruined their med school chances for any med school.

This is kind of how I see it: if you can’t do well in an SMP, then you definitely can’t do well in medical school. So if your friends did bad.. then they probably weren’t going to do well in medical school. I see an SMP as sort of a win win for me. I get an additional degree, while also proving to myself and admissions committees that I’m capable of doing well in graduate level coursework.

right?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

You won’t be getting in without a post bac and aceing your classes to raise your GPA to around a 3.0. If you do that you’d have a good shot. Don’t do an SMP as for most schools they don’t guarantee admission and your better off doing a post bac anyway.