Best CC fellowship for EM Docs

[slycaper]

Any place for EM doc doing a IM-CC fellowship or are they primarily going through Anesthesia, Surgical CC fellowships?

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[VentdependenT]

Dunno man. You may get a better idea by asking in the EM forum. Not sure if one can do pulm/cc without graduating from a licensed IM program. CC alone perhaps. But, I'd rather just take the 1yr route via anesthesia or surgery as an EM grad. Anesthesia if you like neuroICU or surg if you like trauma/post-op complications.

 

[Dwindlin]

Dunno man. You may get a better idea by asking in the EM forum. Not sure if one can do pulm/cc without graduating from a licensed IM program. CC alone perhaps. But, I'd rather just take the 1yr route via anesthesia or surgery as an EM grad. Anesthesia if you like neuroICU or surg if you like trauma/post-op complications.

Gas/Surg CC do not yet allow EM trained docs to be boarded. IM does. Though I heard this is changing.


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[soonereng]

Gas/Surg CC do not yet allow EM trained docs to be boarded. IM does. Though I heard this is changing.

Surgical CC has already formed a pathway for EM grads. It is a two year fellowship path.

 

[Dwindlin]

Surgical CC has already formed a pathway for EM grads. It is a two year fellowship path.

Did I read that correctly that they require a prelim surgery year?

 

[ihearttriangles]

Dunno man. You may get a better idea by asking in the EM forum. Not sure if one can do pulm/cc without graduating from a licensed IM program. CC alone perhaps. But, I'd rather just take the 1yr route via anesthesia or surgery as an EM grad. Anesthesia if you like neuroICU or surg if you like trauma/post-op complications.

Just out of curiosity what is the connection between anesthesiology and neuro ICU?

 

[K31]

Surgical CC has already formed a pathway for EM grads. It is a two year fellowship path.

ABA and ABEM are working on the same. It requires a total of 5 years of postgraduate training--graduates of 4-year EM programs can just do the same fellowship as anesthesiology grads, while those from 3-year programs can either extend their fellowship to 2 years or spend one year between EM residency and the CC fellowship in one of the ACGME-approved EM fellowships.

To my knowledge, the IM-CCM pathway is the only one approved by ACGME thus far though.

 

[dotcb]

1.5 hr SCCM/ACEP/EMRA talk on state of the union CC for EM residents

http://sccmmedia.sccm.org/video/Webcast/EM/EM-4-2013.mp4

 

[deuist]

Did I read that correctly that they require a prelim surgery year?

The prelim year remains to be determined. The fellowship director sets up the rotations for the prelim year. I imagine some places would use the ED doc as another intern, while others might use him to do extra ICU rotations, consults and post-op care as an add-on to the current surgical residents.

 

[emergiQ]

We were talking about this at my shop today in the context of developing a fellowship.

Rather than thinking of it as a prelim year and a critical care year, we forsee it more as a two year all-encompasing fellowship that will satisfy the "prelim" year description. It's just semantics, in our mind.

The first year is allowed to have 3 months in the unit, so we could do this, at the fellow level with appropriate graded responsibility. The other 9 months must specifically *not* be similar to "junior" surgery residents, in fact, the ABS says they must be intermediate. We envision a combination of operative service on transplant, trauma, general surgery (abdominal catastorphes), and maybe some on CT and vascular. It would certainly not be as painful as what one might expect in a typical PGY-1 or PGY-2 year of general surgery.

This is good news for future graduates and, in my opinion, represents the best way for EM folks to get into, and boarded in, critical care.

For those EM docs already trained and working in CC, however, note that there is no grandfather clause. Yet another example of ABEM's weakness in being able to persuade surgery (or any other subspecialty) to meet the needs of those in the membership who have played a role in advancing the specialty.

 

[namethatsmell]

This is good news for future graduates and, in my opinion, represents the best way for EM folks to get into, and boarded in, critical care.

Are you saying this because you think there will be less competition for these spots (and thus easier entry) or what you feel is better CC training? Mind elaborating?

 

[vandame]

Hey y'all. Just joined the network. So I'm a 3rd year medical student and I love EM. I have been thinking that I may also enjoy doing Critical care at some point far down the road. If I do a 4 year residency in EM and decide to do critical care like 15 years later, I could do a 1 or 2 year fellowship in surgical CC or IM CC in order to be certified? Is this correct? It's all quite confusing at this point.

Thanks for everyone's time!!

 

[deuist]

It's 2 years for the fellowship. If you try to come back to training after 15 years of practice, it isn't going to work out very well. You'll take a huge financial hit, not to mention that going from 36 hours a week as the person in charge to 80 hours a week as the low man on the totem pole will be sole-crushing.