Bernie Sanders announces he is running for President

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DirtDocMD said:
Destroying people’s work ethic, promising more and more “free” services/benefits, ginning up racial/sexual/cultural differences from decades/centuries past, and setting up a moral/legal system where actions don’t have consequences, will not lead to a strong/cohesive society. Ask yourself, which party does this apply to MORE??

“Something for nothing” and jealousy of others’ success, will not cure our ills. Even FDR had enough sense to know that, while social programs are needed during times of financial hardship, just giving money away, with no connection to hard work, destroys society (hence, the CCC/etc., to get folks to “work” for their benefits).

Some of you guys can laugh at Trump and the GOP all you want, but ultimately, you can’t have 320 million people thinking every day is Xmas, and the Govt is Santa Claus.

We’re trading freedom for “free-stuff”. When was the last time you saw a protest or requests for “safe-spaces” at a trade school??
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While I can understand your Democratic antipathies, the Republicans have proven, in the last few years, to be the scum of the Earth, i.e. anything for money/votes. They literally have no shame. And this is coming from a guy who voted mostly Republican in 2018. I am so disgusted with that party that they will probably not get my vote beyond state level for a very long time.

Just looking back at recent history, many of their presidents and leaders have been disgusting. Unless the Democratic candidate is some crazy leftist, I won't be putting another Republican in the White House for a long time. I believe that, short of socialism, values are more important than money, and I will keep seeing the Republican stain for decades.

I couldn't stand some of Obama's policies, but I have never had a doubt about the man's intellect, and I was rarely if ever ashamed of him (usually the opposite).
 
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There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand
 
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FFP said:
While I can understand your Democratic antipathies, the Republicans have proven, in the last few years, to be the scum of the Earth, i.e. anything for money/votes. They literally have no shame. And this is coming from a guy who voted mostly Republican in 2018. I am so disgusted with that party that they will probably not get my vote beyond state level for a very long time.

Just looking back at recent history, many of their presidents and leaders have been disgusting. Unless the Democratic candidate is some crazy leftist, I won't be putting another Republican in the White House for a long time. I believe that, short of socialism, values are more important than money, and I will keep seeing the Republican stain for decades.

I couldn't stand some of Obama's policies, but I have never had a doubt about the man's intellect, and I was rarely if ever ashamed of him (usually the opposite).
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More power to you, but I think way too many folks confuse slick talking with actual “intellect”. Trump talks like a buffoon, but his economic and foreign policies make more sense than Obama’s ever did. Promising free social services to a country’s citizens (which we can’t afford), while welcoming in millions of folks from other countries who need and demand the same services, as well, doesn’t help. With 320 million already in this country, we ought to be able to find plenty of folks to do any job we need (at least we would if we didn’t have cheap foreign labor driving down the wage rate).
 
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The more loony tune the left gets the more you can expect to see a Republican president.

I agree that the "traditional" Republicans have been disgusting. So have the traditional Democrats. Different, but nonetheless pathetic.

Btw, my preferred pronoun is His Royal Highness. I identify as Royalty. If you fail to address me by my preferred pronoun then I will consider it a violation of my human rights and you shall be punished......:)
 
d2305 said:
There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand
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Technically, if you go all the way to Marx Manifesto, communism is also a general relinquishment over true ownership of most forms of property, which is a concept Socialism tends to not go into.
 
TheLoneWolf said:
Would be foolhardy to state that some on the left do not have these as their active talking points.
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What's wealth redistribution?

It's clear you favor the current form of wealth *distribution*, with historically low marginal income tax rates and high inequality. Others favor a different plan of wealth *distribution*. But you are invoking some sort of idea that "they're gonna come take my money" with references to dictatorships and bayonets, meanwhile, billionaires keep billionairing and you too will eventually be left out in the cold.
 
Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

I posted in Nov 2017 that Harris will be the next president of the USA. Today, I am predicting she will be the Democrat nominee but will lose to Trump due to her leftward lurch to win the primary.

Politics today is all about race and gender. She checks both boxes.

Kamala-Harris-Stan-Honda-AFP-Getty-640x481.jpg
 
BLADEMDA said:
Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

I posted in Nov 2017 that Harris will be the next president of the USA. Today, I am predicting she will be the Democrat nominee but will lose to Trump due to her leftward lurch to win the primary.

Politics today is all about race and gender. She checks both boxes.

Kamala-Harris-Stan-Honda-AFP-Getty-640x481.jpg
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What a tragedy. Identity politics is the major cause of today's toxic and polarizing political environment
 
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nimbus said:
I’ll have to see where it changed. My refund which was always sizeable is much smaller this year.
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Isn’t a large refund at the end of the year mostly a sign that your withholding is out of wack and you just gave the government an interest free loan?

The amazon thing strikes me as odd. I don’t see how this is anything like the Wisconsin plan, which may have never paid for itself. The amazon plan would have done so rather quickly. 25,000 employees at 150,000 average for aggregate salary of 3.75B at 10% tax on income pays for itself pretty quick. Let alone property tax, sales tax, etc. most of the incentives Amazon was going to receive are given to all companies “creating jobs” in nyc.

To put it in perspective Foxconn wanted more direct investment from the state (as opposed to just credits), pledged to create HALF the jobs at a THIRD the average salary. >6x worse job income to subsidies ratio compared to amazon and nyc.

I am in favor of eliminating carve-outs for specific companies to avoid a race to the bottom, but at the same time I think when you examine the facts the amazon deal and Foxconn deal were pretty different.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

I posted in Nov 2017 that Harris will be the next president of the USA. Today, I am predicting she will be the Democrat nominee but will lose to Trump due to her leftward lurch to win the primary.

Politics today is all about race and gender. She checks both boxes.

Kamala-Harris-Stan-Honda-AFP-Getty-640x481.jpg
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Come on Blade. Race and Gender are nothing but a social construct! Yes, I REALIZE this is what the loonie toon's on the far left tell us, all the while supporting race and gender based programs and fomenting hatred towards white men.

Also, I realize I addressed you as Blade. I hope that wasn't offensive to you. For future reference can you please tell me your preferred pronoun?

I realize that offending you could be a punishable offense in the future.
 
The New York / Amazon thing is a marvel to behold, but I guess I'm not all that surprised.

Also not surprising that a particular freshman Congresswoman is in the thick of it, with the usual confident yet math-deficient declarations.

Anyway. New York's loss is someone else's gain. Amazon still needs that work to be done. They'll either go somewhere else or expand what they've got. Hard to do anything but shrug. And maybe point and laugh at all the real estate speculators who just got hosed.
 
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fakin' the funk said:
2017 and 2018 were nearly identical years on my end, but my federal tax bill was something like 10% higher in 2018. I'm sure it went to a good cause though.
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Ouch. Looks like you’re gonna have to break down and have a coupla kids to offset that tax bill.
 
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Lawper said:
What a tragedy. Identity politics is the major cause of today's toxic and polarizing political environment
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Gone are the days where people could implement policy on discussion and debate. Now it’s all about how you self-identify. Wtf?!!
 
medschoolzombie said:
What approach is that lol? Trump has no plan, like ever. My issue with Bernie is that he has a lot of ideas, but little to no details on how they're gonna happen, how it's gonna get paid for etc. A lot of it just boils down to ''tax the rich at x%. That'll pay for everything'' which won't work.
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Fix the trade deficit, stop illegal immigration/build a wall, decrease taxes, decrease government control of healthcare. I would disagree with his tweets and rudeness to begin with, but he has been pretty transparent on these.

Oh, I think Bernie is pretty clear that he wants socialism. Pretty transparent for him as well. Increase a form of slavery through entitlement programs. Much like AOC pushing "economic security for those unwilling to work". I think we all can agree that needs to go.

I hate the idea of free college as well. Why punish the people that don't go to college? And it tells people they have to go to college or they are a failure. I will be proud of my children that work hard and are good, responsible people. They don't need to go to college to have a good life. If their passion doesn't take them to college, that is all right.
 
pgg said:
The New York / Amazon thing is a marvel to behold, but I guess I'm not all that surprised.

Also not surprising that a particular freshman Congresswoman is in the thick of it, with the usual confident yet math-deficient declarations.

Anyway. New York's loss is someone else's gain. Amazon still needs that work to be done. They'll either go somewhere else or expand what they've got. Hard to do anything but shrug. And maybe point and laugh at all the real estate speculators who just got hosed.
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Anybody who elects a bartender to solve their problems deserves the consequences.
 
narcotics999 said:
Wrong. Anybody who did not elect the bartender is going to suffer.
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I didn't say anything to the contrary. Check your logical circuits.

All I said was that those who elected (i.e voted for) her deserve the consequences. Obviously, those who didn't don't.
 
FFP said:
Anybody who elects a bartender to solve their problems deserves the consequences.
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Actors, pro wrestlers, reality TV stars, bartenders...the days of voting for intellectuals and experts are long gone. Now we vote for those who tweet the best. The biggest requirement for getting elected to any kind of public office is to have a strong Twitter game.
 
GravelRider said:
Actors, pro wrestlers, reality TV stars, bartenders...the days of voting for intellectuals and experts are long gone. Now we vote for those who tweet the best. The biggest requirement for getting elected to any kind of public office is to have a strong Twitter game.
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This country has long had an anti-intellectual streak.
 
GravelRider said:
Actors, pro wrestlers, reality TV stars, bartenders...the days of voting for intellectuals and experts are long gone. Now we vote for those who tweet the best. The biggest requirement for getting elected to any kind of public office is to have a strong Twitter game.
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Our current secretary of energy's report card:

gCBQy6W.png


That's right, a guy who got a D in a class called "Meats" succeeded two Ph.D physicists as SoE.
 
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BobLoblaw78 said:
Fix the trade deficit, stop illegal immigration/build a wall, decrease taxes, decrease government control of healthcare. I would disagree with his tweets and rudeness to begin with, but he has been pretty transparent on these.

Oh, I think Bernie is pretty clear that he wants socialism. Pretty transparent for him as well. Increase a form of slavery through entitlement programs. Much like AOC pushing "economic security for those unwilling to work". I think we all can agree that needs to go.

I hate the idea of free college as well. Why punish the people that don't go to college? And it tells people they have to go to college or they are a failure. I will be proud of my children that work hard and are good, responsible people. They don't need to go to college to have a good life. If their passion doesn't take them to college, that is all right.
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Those aren’t plans. Those are ideas. Having a plan means you know exactly how this will be done. It’ll have details that have been thought out in advance. That’s not the case

Agree with you on some of the other points. I’m not a fan of free college. We’re already at a point where only half of college grads end up finding a job in their fields. Plus not everyone needs to go to college to succeed.
 
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We should at least have free college for bartenders. They could study cow farts. :p
 
The 2020 elections should be a freebie for the Democrats, but they are going to blow it bigly. The base has been locked up and motivated to vote since November 10, 2016. It’s time to focus on those swing votes. I actually think Bernie has a reasonable shot. People like his ideas (including red hat wearing Republicans) and he tends to avoid the fake issues that the other Democrats get eviscerated on. Bernie has the campaign apparatus in place and has raised a lot of money without the help of major donors. It is difficult to ignore him this time around.

Some things the Democrats need to think about:
1. Stop talking about guns. Leave it alone. This is a toxic issue for Democrats. Say something like “enforcing laws within the framework of the Constitution and leaving it up to the states.” That’s it. Leave this issue out of it completely. Avoid talking about it.

2. Abortion. Another fake issue that Republicans use to excite their base. “The federal government needs to stay out of any conversation between a doctor and his/her patient.” That’s it. Leave it alone. At that point, it’s a state issue.

3. Identity politics. This is a fake issue designed by Fox News. If you watched Fox News you would think there is a line wrapped around the block for sex change operations. There isn’t. I’ve been to two gay weddings and have yet to come across someone who changed their sexual identity. It’s weird and unusual and it’s a useful boogeyman for conservative media. It’s a non-issue that should be ignored by Democrats. Again “keep the government’s hands off my junk” would be a good campaign message here. Then leave it alone.

4. Progressive politics. This should be the focus. Bernie Sanders is not a Communist. He is not calling for government control of the means of production. He is a New Deal Democrat that is not quite as progressive as FDR. The Clinton-era Democrats were simply Republicans-lite. Democrats were much more progressive pre-Clinton, so this is just a correction back to the norm.

There is a welfare system in place for corporations and billionaires, so Bernie Sanders is calling for one for everyday people as well. Again, his ideas are popular and they are no more socialist than other popular socialist institutions like social security, Medicare, public libraries, and fire and police departments. I don’t agree with everything he has to say, but he has a point. Everyone on this forum has the benefit of earning a very comfortable living, but the vast majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and are one major expense away from financial catastrophe. We have no problem using state power to protect corporations or using public money to bail them out when they f*ck up, but when it comes to our fellow citizens, it’s the wolves of the free market that guide us.

5. The wall. This is a federal land and power grab designed to line the pockets of some rich people with public money. That’s all it is. I can’t keep the deer or bunnies out of my vegetable garden with a fence, so what chance does a fence/wall have of keeping out drug cartels with net worths in the billions?

6. I don’t understand why no one has figured out how to campaign against Donald Trump. It would be SO easy. My 6th grade self would destroy him in a debate. Unfortunately, the Democrats have not come to terms with that yet. They still operate under the notion of maintaining decorum in politics. They need to take the gloves off, get dirty, and get personal. Start attacking his stubby fingers, his obesity, the makeup that he wears, etc. Make fun of his loser kids. 10-15 years ago, Donald Trump was the laughingstock of New York newspapers and tabloids. It took the facade of The Apprentice to make him appear to be the astute businessman that he isn’t. Make him a laughingstock again. Donald Trump has done a couple of good things and it wouldn’t hurt Democrats to acknowledge them (again, the base is locked up).

The Republicans are also operating under a different set of rules than the Democrats. There was likely a widespread disinformation campaign in the last election aided by the Russians. Who cares. Stop whining about it and do the exact same thing to them. Get on to Facebook and spread the same kind of disinformation. That’s the game right now, so you can either complain about it or play it the same way.

I would have to think Bernie Sanders is the Democrat front runner by a lot. He is probably the most popular politician in our country by a wide margin. He’s promoted progressive politics in a rural state with a lot of blue collar workers and people who like to hunt. Elizabeth Warren would get destroyed in a campaign against Trump. I don’t know enough about Harris. Klobuchar and Gillibrand are nobodies. Bernie is old and cranky enough to be able to withstand Trump and his insults. This is an easy election to win for Democrats if they play it right. Bernie has a very decent shot to be the next president.
 
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Sanders is ancient, and as we saw with Reagan, age does matter. Sanders would be 79 on inauguration day, far older than any other president, first or second term. Biden would be 78 and Warren would be 71.
 
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BobLoblaw78 said:
Fix the trade deficit, stop illegal immigration/build a wall, decrease taxes, decrease government control of healthcare. I would disagree with his tweets and rudeness to begin with, but he has been pretty transparent on these.

Oh, I think Bernie is pretty clear that he wants socialism. Pretty transparent for him as well. Increase a form of slavery through entitlement programs. Much like AOC pushing "economic security for those unwilling to work". I think we all can agree that needs to go.

I hate the idea of free college as well. Why punish the people that don't go to college? And it tells people they have to go to college or they are a failure. I will be proud of my children that work hard and are good, responsible people. They don't need to go to college to have a good life. If their passion doesn't take them to college, that is all right.
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It isn't clear that Bernie wants socialism. He is a social democrat (who mislabels himself a democratic socialist). He wants the government to promote the well-being of the majority within the framework of a capitalist economy. I don’t think there’s any reason to believe he actually wants a planned economy.
 
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I thought Bernie was the second coming of the USSR, or atleast that's what fox days
 
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Trump will win. I don’t see anyone on the left who would actually stand a chance. Schultz actually would not be a bad President but we haven’t evolved past the 2 party system.
 
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Voters Say Government Has Too Much Power

Voters Say Government Has Too Much Power - Rasmussen Reports®

We didn't vote for Donald Trump, we voted against Clinton. In 2020, if the Democrats nominate a far-left individual they will lose again.

Obama campaigned as a moderate with a left-tilt. The 2020 candidates will be far to the left of Obama.

 
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I could be wrong but I don't think the country will elect a far-left nominee any more than it will pick an ultra conservative Republican.
 
BLADEMDA said:
I could be wrong but I don't think the country will elect a far-left nominee any more than it will pick an ultra conservative Republican.
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There are no far left candidates. Sanders and Warren are center left despite what the inevitable misinformation campaign will say.
 
I guess it’s all relative? Relative to Stalin, Sanders is center left.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
I could be wrong but I don't think the country will elect a far-left nominee any more than it will pick an ultra conservative Republican.
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On second thought I'm pretty sure even if the Mueller report says Trump is a proven traitor or that he knowingly colluded with Putin, his base along with Fox and Friends and the repugnant party will get on their knees to keep him in office
 
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FFP said:
This is how Trump wins: Warren Backs Government Reparations for African Americans. Harris, did the same, btw.

So dumb. They ignore the cry to abolish positive discrimination (e.g. affirmative action), and then this.

Bernie is way smarter:

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Political campaigns are like hospitals that hire some nitwit consultant to tell them how to save money. Instead they have consultants that tell them how to get votes. Every Democrat since 2008 has been trying to repeat Obama’s success by “getting out the black vote.” It’s disingenuous and everyone can see right through it.

GastriqueGraffin said:
Trump will win. I don’t see anyone on the left who would actually stand a chance. Schultz actually would not be a bad President but we haven’t evolved past the 2 party system.
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Despite the narrative, Schultz is more of a liability for Trump than the Democrats. Trump won with a lot of #neverHilary votes. Those same Republican voters would feel a lot more comfortable voting for Schultz than Trump.
 
nolagas said:
There are no far left candidates. Sanders and Warren are center left despite what the inevitable misinformation campaign will say.
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Nobody who speaks about wealth redistribution is center or moderate anything.
 
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algosdoc said:
Sanders is ancient, and as we saw with Reagan, age does matter. Sanders would be 79 on inauguration day, far older than any other president, first or second term. Biden would be 78 and Warren would be 71.
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Jesus. Why are our only options ancient people? Where are all the 30/40 year olds who may actually be in tune with what all of us want

BLADEMDA said:

Obama campaigned as a moderate with a left-tilt. The 2020 candidates will be far to the left of Obama.
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I’d argue that Obama not being more to the left made more people hate him. It also screwed us over now since thats likely what gave us the screwed up version of ACA

nolagas said:
There are no far left candidates. Sanders and Warren are center left despite what the inevitable misinformation campaign will say.
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Compared to the global stage, American ‘leftists’ are pretty conservative
 
FFP said:
Nobody who speaks about wealth redistribution is center or moderate anything.
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I think we are only exposed to center-left, centrist, and center-right politicians so representatives of the center-left and center-right seem like extremists to their opponents.
Wealth redistribution is a center left policy. Anti-capitalism, abolition of private property is far left.
 
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