Being useful as a CRNA

[CRNA?]

As a long-time SDNer, I wanted to make this new account to post this. I have long been set on medicine (actually have applied this cycle), but I have come to realize that I am not sure that I want to make the sacrifices necessary spending time away from my husband and children.

With that being said, I have contemplated the CRNA route (I did a lot of OR time when I got my medic) and I think the time commitment seems a bit more in line with what I am wanting.

Long story short, if I go that route, how can I be the best CRNA for my supervising anesthesiologist? I know the obvious things about letting them know if I am in over my head (before it happens), and general things like that, but I was wondering about other specifics.

I appreciate the chance to hear everyones feedback, and major respect for the time that you have all put into becoming physicians.

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[IMGASMD]

A very charged topic as a first post. I will let others tackle this one.
Just want to point out, if you don’t have your RN/BSN it’s going to be a while before you become a CRNA.

 

[Planktonmd]

The best thing you can do is to not bring silly AANA anti-physician politics into the work place.

 

[pocafx]

It seems you don't even have a RN degree. You are years away from this being useful.

 

[Southpaw]

Leave the politics at home. Be easy to work with. Provide good patient care. Let us know if you/surgeon/staff are uncomfortable with anything. Best of luck.

 

[AdmiralChz]

If you want to do that route, you should just go and become an AA. It’ll be several years less of requirements.

Also, I was a paramedic in another life. What do you mean by “a lot of OR time” - most medic programs only have 2-3 days of OR time (if any at all) and all you do are simple, straightforward intubations. I’ve never heard of a program doing more and honestly it wouldn’t be useful as it’d be beyond your scope of practice.

 

[CRNA?]

Thanks for your replies.
I have started a 1 year accelerated BSN already.

Totally understand the nursing propoganda BS... I was interested in anesthesia when i wanted to pursue medicine, so I frequented these forums. Thats why I wanted to come on here and ask what I can do to not be ‘that’ CRNA that one of you all would despise supervising.

Due to some discrimination from people at my workplace assuming that my paramedic program was ‘inadequate’, I was in the OR for a couple weeks. Valuable experience to show me just how much goes into anesthesia.

 

[Twiggidy]

Thanks for your replies.
I have started a 1 year accelerated BSN already.

Totally understand the nursing propoganda BS... I was interested in anesthesia when i wanted to pursue medicine, so I frequented these forums. Thats why I wanted to come on here and ask what I can do to not be ‘that’ CRNA that one of you all would despise supervising.

Due to some discrimination from people at my workplace assuming that my paramedic program was ‘inadequate’, I was in the OR for a couple weeks. Valuable experience to show me just how much goes into anesthesia.

Very simple. Be a team player.

 

[Consigliere]

Whatever we say here and now is irrelevant. The AANA propaganda/brainwashing rhetoric machine will grind out yet another "I-don't-need-an-anesthesiologist" CRNA.

 

[CRNA?]

Whatever we say here and now is irrelevant. The AANA propaganda/brainwashing rhetoric machine will grind out yet another "I-don't-an-anesthesiologist" CRNA.

I hope that isn’t the case . CRNA ≠ MDA.

Thankfully my shadowing experiences reinforced that. MDAs seem so much more careful in terms of patient management. Some CRNAs that I saw wouldn’t even check the tube ‘because they knew it was in.’ The anesthesiologist checked the tube every. damn. time. We all make mistakes, the docs seemed to realize that. Some of the CRNAs seemed to think they were invincible. I know I’m not.

 

[neutro]

I hope that isn’t the case . CRNA ≠ MDA.

Thankfully my shadowing experiences reinforced that. MDAs seem so much more careful in terms of patient management. Some CRNAs that I saw wouldn’t even check the tube ‘because they knew it was in.’ The anesthesiologist checked the tube every. damn. time. We all make mistakes, the docs seemed to realize that. Some of the CRNAs seemed to think they were invincible. I know I’m not.

frame this post you wrote and keep in on your workspace i guess so you are reminded of your values, and your colleague CRNAs can see this also.

 

[Man o War]

I’m sorry to say this, but your current perspective is correct and accurate....and I am almost certain you will lose that as you get it pounded into your head by their propaganda machine that nurses are interchangeable with doctors. Maybe you will be the rare exception, I have met a few.
But the vast majority I would say detest being supervised by physicians with many more years education and better training. It’s all about their ego and winning, not the patient’s best interest.
So to answer your question, don’t be one of them. They are horrible to work with and dangerous to patients because they don’t know and recognize their limits.

 

[dhb]

CRNA ≠ MDA

This is a bad start!

 

[Plead the Fifth]

I hope that isn’t the case . CRNA ≠ MDA.

Thankfully my shadowing experiences reinforced that. MDAs seem so much more careful in terms of patient management. Some CRNAs that I saw wouldn’t even check the tube ‘because they knew it was in.’ The anesthesiologist checked the tube every. damn. time. We all make mistakes, the docs seemed to realize that. Some of the CRNAs seemed to think they were invincible. I know I’m not.

Most of us view the term MDA as derogatory. There is no such degree as medical doctor of anesthesiology. We are MDs or DOs. Many militant CRNAs use the term to somehow push the fact that we aren’t “real doctors” although that’s always been confusing to me.

I work with CRNAs daily and have a good relationship with most of them. The best ones understand their limitations and aren’t afraid to ask for help. The worst ones are the ones who don’t know what they don’t know, if you get what I’m saying.

 

[CRNA?]

This is a bad start!

What do you mean by that? CRNAs are not MDs... that is what I was implying.

EDIT: My apologies. I was not aware. Now I know!

 

[Psai]

You're already using their made up terminology. It won't be long before the rhetorical tentacles get to you too and you'll be chanting "just as good or even better!" with the rest of the brainwashed masses.

 

[Noyac]

As a long-time SDNer, I wanted to make this new account to post this. I have long been set on medicine (actually have applied this cycle), but I have come to realize that I am not sure that I want to make the sacrifices necessary spending time away from my husband and children.

OP, my posting of the below article here is not to criticize you in the least. They are to explain the differences between physicians and all others. They are to detail the sacrifices physicians make and to call out the ones that want to grasp some of the honor of taking care of a person and prestige of being the best and most knowledgeable individual to care for a person but don’t want to work for it or make those sacrifices. I commend you for seeing that you have other priorities before you actually enter medical school or even worse, a residency, and then deciding not to complete a career as a physician because of priority changes. Being a physician is a mindset. It is an honor and it is a tremendous opportunity. But this society has spun it around and attacked the profession from all sides. Paraprofessional put on white coats and claim equivalence with less than half the training, knowledge and sacrifice. The gov’t keeps attacking. And healthcare systems keeping raising costs while decreasing quality all in the name of profit. Being a physician these days is not what most people invision when they begin their pursuit. It is a constant affront of attacks and menialization (probably not a word) of the work physicians do. So if you decide to become a crna, which is an admiral and rewarding career in itself, please do not let yourself become brainwashed into thinking you are the equal provider. Remember why you chose the route you did. Not because you are less of a person or less intelligent but because you had different priorities at the time. If you can remain above the fray you will have a very rewarding and fulfilling career.
Please read this:
4 reasons why physicians will become extinct

 

[pgg]

Wonderful post, Noyac.

 

[CRNA?]

OP, my posting of the below article here is not to criticize you in the least. They are to explain the differences between physicians and all others. They are to detail the sacrifices physicians make and to call out the ones that want to grasp some of the honor of taking care of a person and prestige of being the best and most knowledgeable individual to care for a person but don’t want to work for it or make those sacrifices. I commend you for seeing that you have other priorities before you actually enter medical school or even worse, a residency, and then deciding not to complete a career as a physician because of priority changes. Being a physician is a mindset. It is an honor and it is a tremendous opportunity. But this society has spun it around and attacked the profession from all sides. Paraprofessional put on white coats and claim equivalence with less than half the training, knowledge and sacrifice. The gov’t keeps attacking. And healthcare systems keeping raising costs while decreasing quality all in the name of profit. Being a physician these days is not what most people invision when they begin their pursuit. It is a constant affront of attacks and menialization (probably not a word) of the work physicians do. So if you decide to become a crna, which is an admiral and rewarding career in itself, please do not let yourself become brainwashed into thinking you are the equal provider. Remember why you chose the route you did. Not because you are less of a person or less intelligent but because you had different priorities at the time. If you can remain above the fray you will have a very rewarding and fulfilling career.
Please read this:

Hey Noyac,
Thanks for the article. I absolutely understand that I would not be an equal provider to a physician if I were to pursue CRNA. I am glad that there are people who still pursue medicine, despite the personal sacrifices that it entails. As a young woman, I have decided that I am no longer willing to sacrifice time away from my children, husband, and family. If I were single with no plans to marry, perhaps it would be a different story.

I appreciate all of the advice I've gotten on this thread. Perhaps if I am ever supervised by any of you, I'll make your day a little bit easier by not being "that CRNA."

 

[resiroth]

Hey Noyac,
Thanks for the article. I absolutely understand that I would not be an equal provider to a physician if I were to pursue CRNA. I am glad that there are people who still pursue medicine, despite the personal sacrifices that it entails. As a young woman, I have decided that I am no longer willing to sacrifice time away from my children, husband, and family. If I were single with no plans to marry, perhaps it would be a different story.

I appreciate all of the advice I've gotten on this thread. Perhaps if I am ever supervised by any of you, I'll make your day a little bit easier by not being "that CRNA."

Sorry you got jumped on a bit...but there is an insane amount of propaganda in nursing. It's honestly surprising how much "learning" at CRNA/BSN schools isn't medicine, but is politics or "studies show" type stuff.

Don't trash talk anyone (surprisingly common among a few "gossipy" CRNAs), and call for help when needed. I have NEVER seen an anesthesiologist mad that a CRNA called for help. Even if it ends up being nothing, it's fine. Also refer to yourself as a nurse anesthetist or CRNA. There is no shame in that, as weird as the CRNA organizations try to make it seem that way. You'll be making 150-200k working 35-40 hours a week. That's a good gig. Just don't let it go to your head and start saying you're a "doctor" or an "anesthesiologist" like a few nurses do.

Don't misrepresent your training, be cordial with staff, and let the anesthesiologist know if anything seems iffy, even if it seems silly. Far better for it to be a false positive than a catastrophic miss causing patient harm and then we're both torn apart by lawyers. If you do that you'll have a good life, happy workplace, and we'll be able to treat patients well.

One final thing, since CRNA schools love to bring up how much more anesthesiologists make than CRNAs. Realize that we work much longer hours and take call more often than CRNAs do. The pay gap is not remotely as large as the numbers might suggest.

 

[CRNA?]

Sorry you got jumped on a bit...but there is an insane amount of propaganda in nursing. It's honestly surprising how much "learning" at CRNA/BSN schools isn't medicine, but is politics or "studies show" type stuff.

Don't trash talk anyone (surprisingly common among a few "gossipy" CRNAs), and call for help when needed. I have NEVER seen an anesthesiologist mad that a CRNA called for help. Even if it ends up being nothing, it's fine. Also refer to yourself as a nurse anesthetist or CRNA. There is no shame in that, as weird as the CRNA organizations try to make it seem that way. You'll be making 150-200k working 35-40 hours a week. That's a good gig. Just don't let it go to your head and start saying you're a "doctor" or an "anesthesiologist" like a few nurses do.

Don't misrepresent your training, be cordial with staff, and let the anesthesiologist know if anything seems iffy, even if it seems silly. Far better for it to be a false positive than a catastrophic miss causing patient harm and then we're both torn apart by lawyers. If you do that you'll have a good life, happy workplace, and we'll be able to treat patients well.

One final thing, since CRNA schools love to bring up how much more anesthesiologists make than CRNAs. Realize that we work much longer hours and take call more often than CRNAs do. The pay gap is not remotely as large as the numbers might suggest.

After working as an ER tech for a while, I've learned that nurses are super gossipy. On that same note, I've heard some CRNAs introduce themselves as the "anesthesiologist" which they aren't. Just a little bit cringe-y. How about "the nurse providing anesthesia?"

Thats the thing... If I wanted to make the $$$ that you all do, I would have gone to medical school myself! I'm willing to take the smaller paycheck for more time at home with my family.

Now I see how frustrating it can be.

 

[Noyac]

After working as an ER tech for a while, I've learned that nurses are super gossipy. On that same note, I've heard some CRNAs introduce themselves as the "anesthesiologist" which they aren't. Just a little bit cringe-y. How about "the nurse providing anesthesia?"

Thats the thing... If I wanted to make the $$$ that you all do, I would have gone to medical school myself! I'm willing to take the smaller paycheck for more time at home with my family.

Now I see how frustrating it can be.

If you look at things strictly with a financial microscope you will realize that the crna route is the better route. It takes half the time and effort until you are out making your salary which is about half that of the physicians. But you also work about 25-50% less per week. Now if you wanted to approach MD money then all you have to do is put in MD hours. So in summary, you are out of school and training much sooner and make nearly the same hourly wage. Seems like a good gig to me.
Thank goodness we still have individuals that want to be the expert in the field. Want to do the most complex cases. Want to have the most knowledge. Those go on to medical school. But it’s a choice. And you are completely correct that at this stage of your life, this is a tremendous thing to ask of yourself, your spouse and your kids. That’s why most med students are younger and single. Or at least newly married. You would absolutely regret your choice if you started to miss out on your kids games, recitals, trips, homework, etc. and if you plan your finances well, you will be better off as a crna as well. More years of salaried work vs schooling and residency.

 

[Consigliere]

menialization (probably not a word)

It should be

 

[tenerife1]

CRNA? -

I am a CRNA that posted here a few years ago under the name tenerife. You may find those threads useful.

I believe anesthesia is the practice of medicine and that CRNAs should practice under the guidance of an anesthesiologist. I am not an AANA member. I am one of the rare minority MoW referenced.

Believe whatever you like. Practice in the environment that suits you. But keep your views to yourself.

Good luck!

Edit to add and clarify: I am in graduate school but still work as a CRNA. I have come to understand that any mention of my views has the potential to unleash a backlash from other CRNAs that ranges from (at best) disapproval to (at worst) ostracization and vitriolic hatespeech.

The AANA propaganda problem is real.