Be careful what you photograph in OR

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njbmd said:
I use the macro lens all the time for small things of educational value. :eek:
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My dates never understand why I carry my loupes with me at all times. :)
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The main lesson from this case: don't trust anyone in the OR who isn't a doc. Gotta look out for each other. That said, don't be stupid either. Very few people need to see a tatooed penis. It would make for a interesting story, like the time my friend tried to put in a foley on a dude with a Prince Albert, but he didn't take a pic a show it around.
 
thusell said:
Let's be honest, it was wrong for the guy to photograph the patient for no medical reason. That being said, this is the lamest story in the history of the world. What ***** felt the need to anonymously call a newspaper and create a situation? Some self-righteous scrub tech or something? Fine, but if I reported everyone who violated any regulation or rule, you'd have to shut down every hospital in America. And now we're couching the story in ***** terms, where we're acting like the surgeon literally killed someone: "this is a profound compromise of the utmost and solemn duty that we have and a breach of the trust placed in our hands so delicately by our patients." If I want to talk like that, I can make it so that raising your voice to your child seems like child abuse. You know what? Sitting here, I'm also getting madder and madder, just like Mr. HOT ROD, the loser who tattoed his genitals.
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Very well said. Fully agree. The surgeon did something inapropriate but big freaking deal. NOBODY would have ever cared if some politically correct dingus with irritable bowel didn't make a big deal of it. Jesus, can't we have ANY humor or fun in medicine any longer?
 
It's a shame that this surgeon's career ended this way... he seems to have a pretty good resume going for him on PubMed:

Hansen AJ, Young SW, De Petris G, Tessier DJ, Hernandez JL, Johnson DJ. Histologic severity of appendicitis can be predicted by computed tomography. Arch Surg. 2004 Dec;139(12):1304-8.

Hansen AJ, Schlinkert RT. Hand movements in laparoscopic suturing: a simple vector analysis. Surg Endosc. 2005 Mar;19(3):412-7. Epub 2004 Dec 23.

Hansen AJ, Tessier DJ, Anderson ML, Schlinkert RT. Laparoscopic repair of colonoscopic perforations: indications and guidelines. J Gastrointest Surg. 2007 May;11(5):655-9.

Maybe we should start a poll to see if what people think the disciplinary action should have been (does anyone know how to set up a poll on SDN?):

A) Termination.
B) Probation until June so he could graduate but no surgery until June (he can always see consults for SBO or appendicitis).
C) Suspension until next year so the news dies down and people can/will let him operate again.
D) Disciplinary action but allow him to operate under direct supervision until June.

Thoughts?
 
Carpenter said:
sounds like a story of 3 idiots.

One gets his penis tatooed
Second takes a picture and shares it w/ ppl he can't trust
Third calls press over something like this (not trivial, but definitely not something u want whole world to know).

What remains to be seen is how much sense Mayo has and what it does to stand behind its resident...will show how much as an institution it believes in the idea of a family.
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Mayo isn't standing behind anyone who violates HIPPA (nor is any other hospital). Go back and read the HIPPA statutes. They are on-line. There was no medical reason for this photo and no reason for this person to show this photo for laughs. There is always someone that looks for these types of violations and this resident set himself up to be kicked out. It was stupid and it has likely ended his career because no program director is going to hire an idiot who has cost their former program a huge lawsuit. He might as well have tatooed "STUPID" on his forehead.
 
I think the chief resident would be wise to have a sit down with the patient in question. Surely the guy is pissed off but he might be reasonable enough to somehow work out a situation where he is compenstated and the resident can continue/finish his training with some level of punishment/restriction. I know what the guy did was really stupid but it's a shame to see a surgical career effectively ended so late in the game.
 
btw it's hipaa, not hippa

and it's not a hipaa violation. just dumb.
 
TheThroat said:
like the time my friend tried to put in a foley on a dude with a Prince Albert, but he didn't take a pic a show it around.
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Hmmm... OK, I'll bite. What's a "Prince Albert?"
 
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OH SNAP!!! :eek:

I went to school in the Village. I guess they didn't have things like that way back then... :)



:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown
 
SLUser11 said:
What? You'll bite a Prince Albert?
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LOL:laugh:

I had the pleasure of working with Dr. Hansen. Let me tell you, the guy is a really smart guy and is very very nice. No he does not nor should he have STUPID stamped on his forehead. He has a sense of humor and all around is cool resident. I am not saying what he did was right, but it should not be punished with a dismissal. I really feel bad for him. I also think I may know who called the newspaper.
 
do tell
 
gasnewby said:
do tell
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Well I am not sure, but they have this nurse anesthesiologist that is very very very very malignant. When I did my SubI there, she tried to destroy me by going to the program director and telling him, behind my back of course, that I was arrogant. The reason was because I asked her one time in the OR how many years the training is for a nurse anesthesiologist. She answered something like 2-3 years and I said "Oh, that's not too bad". That is all I said. As soon as I left the OR she began to yell and scream about how I insulted her. I know this cause the PD told me. I am very very sure, if she was in the OR when Hansen did this, she was the caller, no doubt. I am not saying this because of what she tried to do to me, but because of her whole attitude, just very very insecure and malignant. Fortunately, PD still wrote me a great letter, but the whole thing was a bad experience. What I learned was exactly what has been said by others here, be very careful about your conduct. If you see or feel that your fellow resident is going to do something stupid stop them fast, especially in front of non-physicians that may have all kinds of insecurities. It may sound imagined, but some people are very jealous, malignant, resentful and hateful of you only because you succeeded and they couldn't. I wish the best to Dr. Hansen.
 
before anyone from the gas forum jumps down your throat, it's nurse "anesthetist." an anesthesiologist is an MD.

i agree totally with what you've said. it's amazing how spiteful and evil people are. i hate to say this, but it seems to be women that are the most vindictive. hell hath no fury...

i would have taken a picture of the ***** with the tattoo. just in a more subtle way. probably would have put it on my xmas cards.

i hope the caller gets fired. because that's the hipaa violation. giving a patient's name to a newspaper? idiot.
 
gasnewby said:
before anyone from the gas forum jumps down your throat, it's nurse "anesthetist." an anesthesiologist is an MD.
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I stand corrected. Thank you gasnewby. I think what happens to physicians is they get a false sense of security in their white coats. They forget sometimes that carrying the title means you are responsible, period. Just like the law does not apply to the bum with bad credit, none really cares if someone with little education does something stupid, but as soon as a physician does something stupid (WHICH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US DOES), it is on BBC. Beware, because as stupid as they are, the "bums" of the hospital know this and will use this against the physician at every opportunity. On a broader level, more and more, rules are being put in place daily, further restricting physicians and taking their rights away. At one of the hospitals I am at right now, I cannot write percocet prn pain anymore as of 2 days ago. Now I have to write percocet prn pain with a pain scale. If I don't, some pharmacist in the basement will stop my order and prevent the patient to get their meds. I have to then pick up the phone, call the pharmacist and explain or else my order will not be approved. This may sound minor, but daily, more and more people with less and less education are penetrating into high level fields and want the same recognition, power, respect, but none of the responsibility. The noose is becoming tighter and tighter in terms of what we can say and do. Finally, physicians just don't get the respect that they used to. I overheard a nurse practitioner tell a respiratory tech today that "you don't need the surgeon's approval or to even notify him to extubate his or her patient, all you need to do is assess the patient yourself and tell his or her nurse you are going to extubate the patient and then do it". Is it me, or is this maddness. If I ever operated on a patient and some tech came by and extubated my patient without me knowing, I would be at least furious. The other day a respiratory tech was trying to get me to give lasix to an ICU patient post extubation. I told her "lasix is not candy that you give to everyone. I will make that decision if it is appropriate for the patient". Needless to say, patient never got one ounce of lasix and he did great. Gradually the boundry between physicians and nonphysicians is dissolving and people are PROFESSIONALLY seeing themselves as equals and even foolishly thinking "hey, I can do that, and I bet I can do it with 10 years less education and training".
 
Southpaw said:
Do you guys believe just about any residency would offer the resident as a sacrificial lamb here, or is Mayo in the minority?

And I'd be willing to bet that this isn't the first time a picture of this dude's penis has been spread amongst people. You just don't get something like that and not want to show it off. "


I am certain this is not the first time his penis has been photographed. One of my best friends is s tattoo artist and her husband is a body piercer. There is big money in tattoos and body piercing and so you want to build a reputation. You want to show off your orginal works. The tattoo artists snap pictures all the time of their work, especially the good stuff. But you better believe that they take pictures of people that put tattoos in places that they shouldn't! (or that they will regret) Sometimes they take the picture just so they can have a good laugh at someone's expense later!

And they aren't obligated to protect anyone's privacy by any HIPAA laws!

By the way, my friend has done one of those Prince Albert piercings. He says that there is no standing up to pee again, ever.
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goooooober said:
I overheard a nurse practitioner tell a respiratory tech today that "you don't need the surgeon's approval or to even notify him to extubate his or her patient, all you need to do is assess the patient yourself and tell his or her nurse you are going to extubate the patient and then do it". Is it me, or is this maddness. If I ever operated on a patient and some tech came by and extubated my patient without me knowing, I would be at least furious.
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ridiculous! they better not touch my patient without an order! they don't know anything about the patient's clinical course; how the hell can they decide when to extubate? maybe you're keeping them intubated, i don't know, because of their open abdomen? maybe we should turn the tube feeds and sedation off. maybe we should get weaning parameters. maybe we should get the patient off pressors. oh f*** it, let the resp tech decide. my brain hurts and my tee time is in an hour.

goooooober said:
The other day a respiratory tech was trying to get me to give lasix to an ICU patient post extubation. I told her "lasix is not candy that you give to everyone. I will make that decision if it is appropriate for the patient".
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ask him what he thought of the CXR or the last creatinine. *****.


goooooober said:
Gradually the boundry between physicians and nonphysicians is dissolving and people are PROFESSIONALLY seeing themselves as equals and even foolishly thinking "hey, I can do that, and I bet I can do it with 10 years less education and training".
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you're absolutely right.
 
goooooober said:
Well I am not sure, but they have this nurse anesthesiologist that is very very very very malignant. When I did my SubI there, she tried to destroy me by going to the program director and telling him, behind my back of course, that I was arrogant.
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This is something that only the most pitiful people have time for. Nurses will gladly spend literally hours in order to try to "get someone in trouble." Why is that? Don't you find that utterly pathetic? That's like the highlight of their entire career. To them, it makes up for the rest of their meaningless and repugnant existences. Sure, you know more, are harder working, and make more money ...but they can gossip about you and write you up!! Watch out! Then they wonder why people really look down on them as they rub perfume samples on their wrists and sniff it curiously or watch soap operas on their lunch break with slacken jaws.
 
Yes, this is a very unfortunate story; I hope this does not ruin the chief.

Unfortunately, hospitals are flooded with the sanctimonious type. The sort that has a very superficial medical knowledge yet feels entitled to pass judgement to you, we're all familiar with it.

The snitch that made the patient's identity known to the paper absolutely should be fired. That is the much more morally aborrhent of the two crimes. I only hope that they get caught.

Someone once told me to treat them all (people in the hospital) like pit bulls- they may be nice, play, let you pet them; that's fine and dandy but they always have the potential to turn around and maul off your face. So be careful.

I wish it wasn't this way but it is; this story is definitely a reminder to watch your step.
 
ajlmd said:
Unfortunately, hospitals are flooded with the sanctimonious type. The sort that has a very superficial medical knowledge yet feels entitled to pass judgement to you, we're all familiar with it.
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Actually, that's the point. Most people like that know that they do not know as much, but at the same time they don't want to admit it. Therefore, since they can't sit around debating you about medical decisions or theories, they instead focus on how you violated some random hospital policy that everyone else also violates. Then they demand that you acknowledge that they were right and change your ways, which demonstrates that you were in the wrong.

I was once written up by a nurse for literally just putting one foot into the room of a contact isolation patient. I realized I was in the wrong room and left. However, she said that I "violated hospital policy" by not using an isolation gown and was "endangering all of my patients." Meanwhile, no joke, nurses were all the time walking in and out of the place without gowns and going from patient to patient. However, I get this call from Infection Control asking, "doctor, are you aware of the hospital policy? And are you willing to comply with it or not?" It's the most laughable thing ever.

This nurse anesthetist was just waiting for an opportunity to get someone in trouble. That's it, plain and simple. That's what she focuses on every day at work, no doubt. Who slighted me and how can I get even?!?!
 
thusell said:
Meanwhile, no joke, nurses were all the time walking in and out of the place without gowns and going from patient to patient. However, I get this call from Infection Control asking, "doctor, are you aware of the hospital policy? And are you willing to comply with it or not?" It's the most laughable thing ever.
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I love it when the nurses wear those flimsy yellow paper gowns to stay warm during night shifts, then walk in and out of different patients' rooms (all of which are labelled "Contact Precautions").

Uh, yeah, you have to wear a gown to enter those rooms, BUT NOT THE SAME GOWN FOR ALL OF YOUR PATIENTS! :rolleyes:
 
Sad case. The moral of the story is be careful of who you trust around the hospital, especially the nurses.
 
Tired said:
The lawsuit will not allege malpractice, it will allege a HIPAA violation or breach of confidentiality or some other variant.

And it will win. Big.

And I'm willing to bet that the group malpractice plan this Chief was under will not cover him.
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Yeah, I am sure the malpractice attorney's would love that one- like this wage slave resident has been banking the big bucks these past five years:laugh: Get behind mean old Sallie Mae who is already on line.
 
Castro Viejo said:
But how on Earth is the Mayo Clinic supposed to defend their resident over something like this? That he used his camera phone to take a picture of a patient's penis for kicks and then proceeded to show it to his colleagues?

There's just no acceptable reason for it.
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There is nothing you can do to defend him..but atleast stand behind him like a family...all he had was a lapse of judgment once..doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person and definitely doesn't mean his career needs to end. I think of this as a car accident..u screwed up..and the insurance will pay for damages and damages might be more than your insurance can cover for..but doesn't necessarily mean ur family will disown u.
 
IllinoisStudent said:
There is nothing you can do to defend him..but atleast stand behind him like a family...all he had was a lapse of judgment once..doesn't necessarily mean he is a bad person and definitely doesn't mean his career needs to end. I think of this as a car accident..u screwed up..and the insurance will pay for damages and damages might be more than your insurance can cover for..but doesn't necessarily mean ur family will disown u.
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I agree with you. The Mayo Clinic should paint him as a great physician who had a lapse in judgement.

They won't do that, but that's another story.
 
medicinesux said:
Yeah, I am sure the malpractice attorney's would love that one- like this wage slave resident has been banking the big bucks these past five years:laugh: Get behind mean old Sallie Mae who is already on line.
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Man, that might be the only part of this whole thing that's palatable. "Sure Mr Malpratice Attorney, you can have as much of my debit as you want."

I really hope someone picks this guy up for a pgy5 year.
 
Kubed said:
Man, that might be the only part of this whole thing that's palatable. "Sure Mr Malpratice Attorney, you can have as much of my debit as you want."

I really hope someone picks this guy up for a pgy5 year.
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Unfortunately, as noted above, the American Board of Surgery requires that you spend your last two years in the same program. So Dr. Hansen has to repeat all of 4th and 5th year if he finds another program to take him.
 
Don't you love it how you take care of some douche who has a penis tattoo and you have to work an additional 4500 hours (49 weeks x 90 hrs/wk) to repay society for basically laughing at someone? And that the douche and his lawyer will probably end up collecting millions for this so-called incalculable pain and suffering? What a douche. Also, that residency sucks tattooed c*ck, I am willing to bet.
 
thusell said:
Also, that residency sucks tattooed c*ck, I am willing to bet.
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If it doesn't already, it better start if it wants to avoid that lawsuit.....maybe hot rod will cool his temper if he gets his noodle wet.....
 
So what's the chance of a program picking him up as a PGY4? Is his career over?
 
SLUser11 said:
If it doesn't already, it better start if it wants to avoid that lawsuit.....maybe hot rod will cool his temper if he gets his noodle wet.....
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Hey, the PD has already bent over for that guy ...what more do you want?
 
Uh oh. :D
 
Taurus said:
So what's the chance of a program picking him up as a PGY4? Is his career over?
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Perhaps.

More likely, he'll have to take some classes in Sensitivity Training or some other BS, admit what he did was wrong, etc. and then have lots of documentation about his ability to be "reformed" and what a good resident he was otherwise.

(before the PC police get on me about the "BS" comment above, let me state that its because I believe that most people who have to undergo such training really do not learn anything or change their behavior, thus I find them a waste of time and resources)
 
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