Baylor College of Medicine Class of 2013

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Jolie South said:
I don't think it's true pass/fail. There are still internal rankings for AOA, I believe.
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What about class rank? Does Baylor report your class rank to residencies? If so, how will this new P/F system affect that (i.e. are they still going to keep grades so that a class rank can be reported?)?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the real benefit of this new P/F system is...
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HiDoc88 said:
What about class rank? Does Baylor report your class rank to residencies? If so, how will this new P/F system affect that (i.e. are they still going to keep grades so that a class rank can be reported?)?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what the real benefit of this new P/F system is...
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Oh man, our first gunner.

The real benefit of P/F is that it fosters a collaborative environment between students, instead of a neurotic, hyper-competitive one...like your pre-med program.

Seriously dude, lighten up (meant in the nicest way possible; sorry if I offend). Tons of schools do it this way. Your residency will be fine.
 
So I'm excited to meet everyone! Does anyone know anything about a class get together or mixer sometime in July? i don't know about everyone else, but I plan on moving in early July, wherever I end up :rolleyes:
 
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karamazov said:
Oh man, our first gunner.

The real benefit of P/F is that it fosters a collaborative environment between students, instead of a neurotic, hyper-competitive one...like your pre-med program.

Seriously dude, lighten up (meant in the nicest way possible; sorry if I offend). Tons of schools do it this way. Your residency will be fine.
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I already understand that. All I was looking for was a simple answer to the question.
 
hottdoc said:
Hey yall!! I just got my letter a couple days ago and express mailed my deposit and acknowledgment form. Yay! :D I was thinking I would look for a nice 1br apt or find a roommate for my first year, but I was told that virtually ALL the out of staters buy condos to obtain TX residency after a year and the tuition to go along with it.

I don't have much money and neither do my parents, so how would I go about buying a condo to move into as ealry as July 1st? I have no proof of income either, until I get my loan package finalized from BCM and I have no idea when that'll happen since I JUST got accepted.

It just seems like it would be so much easier to just rent for my first year, but I know buying a place would save me thousands in the end, esp being able to sell it back and maybe even make a profit. Please, someone help! I'll be driving or flying up to Houston from New Orleans prolly within the next week or so check things out and hopefully solidify living arrangements. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! :confused:
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i've always been slightly skeptical of how "easy" it is to just show up and buy a condo. methinks the sons and daughters of privilege might be outing themselves a little bit here... but I could be totally wrong.

the only way i can think of you swinging it, particularly if your parents aren't able to or simply aren't interested in forking a down payment (i think that usually runs between 15 and 20%) is to use loan money to finance it...So for say a 70k condo, you'd need about 10-14k for the down payment and then the monthly will be what maybe 6-700 or so? just ballparks figures here. i'm not even sure if using loan money to do that is a great idea--my gut says no, and that you'll be potentially risking any kind of savings you could garner by having in state tuition...the difference amounts to about 40k over the course of 4 years?? does this balance against condo fees, maintenance, the interest you pay on your mortgage and the interest you'll be paying off your unsubsidized loans?

if your parents run the down payment and cosign with you, which i'm guessing is the arrangement that a lot of the "i bought my own condo" folks have, then that's a different story.

in any case, i don't have a complete grasp of how it would work out, particularly in our case where we'll be trying to use loans to pay for all this. that's just what's been running through my mind in general--i've got other friends that were looking into buying one as well--similar situation to yours. seems a little hedgy to me, but that's just my two cents. good luck, though! i hope you find something that works out.
 
HiDoc88 said:
I already understand that. All I was looking for was a simple answer to the question.
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I admit, my earlier post sounded pretty harsh. My apologies.

If you're still really worried about it, I would suggest visiting threads for schools that have long used P/F or non-traditional forms of student assessment (Yale, CCLCM) and see if any MS3s from there (looking to match next year) can give you perspective.

I am convinced P/F is a very good thing. And that doesn't mean I'm a slacker who relishes the thought of a lower bar to jump over. I worked extremely hard in undergrad and had a high GPA, and I will continue to work hard to land a competitive specialty.

However, during interviews, it definitely seemed like the students at schools with P/F really were happier and focused on actual learning. One study found no difference in the test performance of med students after a switch to P/F (and found that students had "similar success getting matched into quality residency programs"), but did see "higher scores related to positive well-being, self-control, vitality and general health." Plus, I think learning to be a better team player and letting go of the pre-med neuroticism (which we all suffer from) will go much farther in landing your dream residency than beating your peers in assessments.

EDIT: Also check out this web page, which is UVa's Q&A about their switch to P/F. I suspect BCM will do something similar for AOA (wait until 3rd year clerkships) if it doesn't already (see item #9).

From the same web page:
"Wagoner and Suriano (1999) surveyed 1,200 residency program directors in 14 specialties and asked them to rate the importance of each of 12 criteria in residency selection. Overall, 'grades in preclinical courses' was rated as the least important criteria (while 'grades in required clerkships' was rated as the most important of the 12 criteria)."
 
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From what I have heard, class attendance @ BCM is not required right? Can anyone tell me if if anatomy or other lab attendance is required? I am trying to plan a vacation for the fall. Thanks!
 
penguin2 said:
From what I have heard, class attendance @ BCM is not required right? Can anyone tell me if if anatomy or other lab attendance is required? I am trying to plan a vacation for the fall. Thanks!
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There are 2 small group classes that are required. You can bet on required attendance for at least 2/5 days.

While attendance for anatomy and histo labs and regular class aren't required, it's probably not a good idea to miss that much class. A week of class is 20 lectures. If you were to miss that many, it'd be really hard to catch up.

BTW, labs aren't recorded and histo lab is the only way many people actually "get" histo and know what's important for the test.
 
Jolie South said:
There are 2 small group classes that are required. You can bet on required attendance for at least 2/5 days.

While attendance for anatomy and histo labs and regular class aren't required, it's probably not a good idea to miss that much class. A week of class is 20 lectures. If you were to miss that many, it'd be really hard to catch up.

BTW, labs aren't recorded and histo lab is the only way many people actually "get" histo and know what's important for the test.
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Thanks, I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3 days after a block is finished, to take advantage of a long weekend. You don't do anything the first day of class anyway, right?? ;)

Anyway I can find out the schedule for the small groups?
 
penguin2 said:
Thanks, I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3 days after a block is finished, to take advantage of a long weekend. You don't do anything the first day of class anyway, right?? ;)

Anyway I can find out the schedule for the small groups?
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Actually, if you look at the updated academic schedule, it looks like they're already building in some long weekends: we're off Sept. 16-20 and Oct. 28-Nov. 1 :)
 
*Delete looking-for-roommate post*
 
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Can any current students tell me how much they spend on books for the pre-clinical years?
 
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...and it would be even nicer to know what books we're using next year to shop for some deals...

Previously used:

Anatomy - Gray's by Drake
Histo - Basic Histology by Junqueira
Biochem - Lippincott's Illustrated Biochem Review by Champe and Harvey

Anyone have a complete list for first few blocks?
 
I actually used Junq, Gray's, and Costanzo's Physiology quite a bit in the fall. I think those are the books to buy.

I'm not aware of the price because I get reimbursed. :oops:
 
jolie, how do you manage to get reimbursed for books?
 
OliveTree said:
...and it would be even nicer to know what books we're using next year to shop for some deals...

Previously used:

Anatomy - Gray's by Drake
Histo - Basic Histology by Junqueira
Biochem - Lippincott's Illustrated Biochem Review by Champe and Harvey

Anyone have a complete list for first few blocks?
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That's a great idea! I always shop for my books online during undergrad. Are there recommended lists or are you free to buy whatever you want for each topic?
 
Hey everybody I will be moving to Houston in a week in search of a condo.
I wanted to ask a question for those who have bought condos in Houston. Which condos seem to be the best for med student to live at.
 
Sergman said:
Hey everybody I will be moving to Houston in a week in search of a condo.
I wanted to ask a question for those who have bought condos in Houston. Which condos seem to be the best for med student to live at.
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Cambridge Court, Valencia, Riverwalk, Montreal Place, One Montreal Place, Cambridge Glenn, City Place, City Plaza, Fontainbleau and Medical Center Condominiums are all good places. There are probably more but these are the ones I remember.
 
Sergman said:
Hey everybody I will be moving to Houston in a week in search of a condo.
I wanted to ask a question for those who have bought condos in Houston. Which condos seem to be the best for med student to live at.
Click to expand...

I echo the thumbs up on Riverwalk; I'm going to be sub-letting from some people who are leaving for a year (abroad research year at Oxford), and I can attest the place looked pretty good :)
 
Oh, how I wish school was over right now... So many bugs. SO MANY BUGS. Makes me never want to travel outside my apartment. :)

If what I am saying makes no sense, you'll see. You'll see. :p

In other news, it's been literally months since I last posted here. Seems like ages! How you guys been? Excited about the road you've worked forever to start walking on?
 
TheRealMD said:
Oh, how I wish school was over right now... So many bugs. SO MANY BUGS. Makes me never want to travel outside my apartment. :)

If what I am saying makes no sense, you'll see. You'll see. :p

In other news, it's been literally months since I last posted here. Seems like ages! How you guys been? Excited about the road you've worked forever to start walking on?
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You're either going totally nuts from all the studying or perhaps you're taking Infectious Diseases right now. :p
 
Did anybody who got off of the waitlist get their financial aid packet yet?
Just curious since it has been almost a month for me!
 
benjjang751 said:
Did anybody who got off of the waitlist get their financial aid packet yet?
Just curious since it has been almost a month for me!
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I did, but I had to e-mail them and see them personally. If you have gmail check your spam mail that is where I found mine.
 
nv45 said:
this sucks....
The only good thing I see is that Baylor's debt has been reduced which is a positive sign.
The one question I'm wondering is what our major private, adult teaching hospital is going to be: Methodist, St. Luke's, or the Baylor Clinic and Hospital?
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Originally I thought that too, lower debt is always good right? But from reading the comments, it seems like the good effects of having lower debt is coming at the expense of laying off workers/physicians to cut costs. Also if what they're talking about is an operating deficit instead of just debt in general, that entails that Baylor is still losing around $20 million annually after the cuts. I wonder how that will affect us?
 
Reading this article on NPR entitled "Rx Drug Money And Med Schools Don't Mix". You've probably heard about Harvard's earlier troubles with drug company influence (they've since cleaned up their act, apparently).

Anyway, I was happy to see that Baylor scores really well.
 
TheElement said:
Originally I thought that too, lower debt is always good right? But from reading the comments, it seems like the good effects of having lower debt is coming at the expense of laying off workers/physicians to cut costs. Also if what they're talking about is an operating deficit instead of just debt in general, that entails that Baylor is still losing around $20 million annually after the cuts. I wonder how that will affect us?
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i've been thinking a lot about this too, and i'll admit that it's made me question my decision a little bit... (am i the only one that feels this way)? my feeling is that everyone at the school, at least the undergraduates, feel that it won't have a huge effect. some of them have added that if anything the baylor residents are the ones having the most problems right now.. people that i've talked to in the medical community including alums and current physicians have varying opinions. one said that she felt like baylor was in a period of great turmoil and that she wasn't so sure. others think that a lot of this had to do with some bad politics/leadership/whatever and that it'll get shuffled out, and that baylor is still a great school with a fantastic reputation.

my biggest concern now, and it's something that wasn't really on my radar until a few weeks ago was the loss of faculty. i think that could have a serious negative impact on our education especially in terms of our clinical years. i'm also sort of confused in general about the hospital situation as reported in the chronicle... did we also walk away from our partnership with st. luke's?? and i mean what do these partnerships really mean in terms of rotations... as far as i know, baylor students still rotate through methodist and st. lukes...
 
Originally I was worried about Baylor's hospital situation too, but after researching things a little further, I don't see reason to worry because Baylor still operates the best of what is in the Texas Medical Center:

Methodist: BCM still jointly operates the Neurosensory Center at Methodist (which includes ophthalmology/Cullen Eye Institute, neurology and ENT) as well as Urology. According to US News, those areas rank 14th, 12th, 26th, and 11th respectively. In addition, Baylor still operates the Maxine Mesinger Multiple Sclerosis Center and Center for Cell and Gene Therapy at Methodist. I don't see the faculty from any of those areas leaving Methodist or Baylor because BCM jointly owns those facilities. The Menninger Clinic is also another area that BCM operates with Methodist. Like it or not, Baylor will always have affiliations with Methodist, and the best part is we are associated with the departments that Methodist is known nationally for (i.e. ranks highly in).

St. Luke's: As of right now, we are still primarily affiliated with St. Luke's and according to the BCM website, our faculty fill in 60% of the hospital's active staff. So, we fill in most of the departments there, including Texas Heart Institute (which ranks 7th). In fact, the residency program at Texas Heart Institute is only associated with BCM.

We will ALWAYS have Texas Children's (3rd best pediatric hospital overall in the country if you add all the pediatric subspecialties), Menninger Clinic (ranked 6th), TIRR (ranked 4th), Ben Taub and DeBakey VA.

The only thing we don't have our hands totally in which also represents the best of the TMC is MD Anderson, which is its own thing really.

So, I wouldn't worry about this much because the majority of what the TMC is known for is associated with BCM. The only thing we haven't figured out is which of 3 hospitals (Methodist, St. Luke's, and Baylor Hospital) is going to be our "primary" private hospital. In reality though, this title is really for the brochures because we will always be associated with the best of what is in Methodist and St. Luke's.
 
And don't forget lots of joint programs with MDAnderson as well - psychiatry, neurosurgery, radiology, ENT, Bone Disease Program of Texas... and you can do an "away rotation" in oncology there as well if you wish, and it's a helluva lot more convenient for you than the rest.
 
To those curious about how good BCM's clinical program is, I created a ranking using the US News Best Hospitals and Best Children's Hospitals. My methodology is simple and straightforward: all I did was add up all the scores for all the departments to create 2 rankings. One was for adult care and another was for total care (adult and pediatric). There were 3 departments (ophthalmology, rehabiliitation, and psychiatry) where I had to adjust the scores (making it out of 100 points) to make it fair because all the other departments were out of 100 and US News only gave the reputation score (which was less than 100). So to make all departments count equally, I just gave the #1 ranked hospital 100 points in those categories and gave the others a score in terms of the #1 ranked hospital (simply dividing it by the #1 ranked hospital's reputation score).
These rankings represent a medical school's primary affiliates only. Thus I did not include any secondary affiliates (e.g. MD Anderson). I had to look up all this up and it took awhile, but I think it was well worth to see where we stand.
First, here are BCM's primary affiliates in the departments US News uses:

ENT - Methodist, Neurosensory Center
Neurology - Methodist, Neurosensory Center
Ophthalmology - Methodist, Cullen Eye Institute, Neurosensory Center
Urology - Methodist
Geriatrics - St. Luke's
Kidney - St. Luke's
Oncology/Cancer - St. Luke's
Endocrinology - St. Luke's
Gastrointestinal - St. Luke's
Heart - St. Luke's
Orthopedics - St. Luke's
Respiratory - St. Luke's
Rheumatology - St. Luke's
Gynecology - Ben Taub, Harris County Hospital District
Rehabilitation - TIRR
Psychiatry - Menninger Clinic
All Pediatric Subspecialties - Texas Children's
 
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Here is the first ranking representing Adult Clinical Care (No Pediatric Subspecialties) with the medical school's score next to its name:

1. Johns Hopkins - 1199.4
2. Mayo Clinic - 1113.9
3. Harvard - 990.6
4. Cleveland Clinic - 868.4
5. Cornell - 777.5
6. UCLA - 737.5
7. Columbia - 655.0
8. UCSF - 582.2
9. Duke - 558.5
10. University of Pittsburgh - 530.3
11. Washington University in St. Louis - 507.9
12. University of Pennsylvania - 488.7
13. University of Washington - 472.5
14. Northwestern - 446.6
15. University of Michigan - 439.1
16. Baylor College of Medicine - 426.5
17. Stanford - 421.5
18. Mount Sinai -401.1
19. NYU - 400.7
20. Yale - 395.9
21. Vanderbilt - 392.1
22. University of Iowa - 387.8
23. Jefferson Medical College - 382.6
24. University of Miami - 365.8
25. University of Chicago - 362.8
26. University of Alabama - 357.2
27. Emory - 356.4
28. UCSD - 332.5
29. Rush University - 332.1
30. Indiana University - 327.5
31. University of Minnesota - 320.3
32. University of Florida - 310.4
33. Ohio State University - 303.8
34. University of Virginia - 302.8
35. University of Maryland - 299.9
36. University of Colorado - 295.2
37. UT Southwestern - 291.9
 
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Here is the second ranking representing Total Care (Adult and Pediatric) with the medical school's score next to its name:

1. Harvard - 1857.5
2. Johns Hopkins - 1719.9
3. University of Pennsylvania - 1433.2
4. Mayo Clinic - 1337.7
5. Cleveland Clinic - 1192.0
6. UCLA - 1111.6
7. Columbia - 1093.1
8. Baylor College of Medicine - 1051.1
9. UCSF - 944.6
10. Washington University in St. Louis - 930.6
11. University of Pittsburgh - 919.5
12. University of Washington - 882.8
13. University of Cincinnati - 850.0
14. Northwestern - 804.8
15. Stanford - 784.3
16. Cornell - 777.5
17. University of Michigan - 771.4
18. University of Colorado - 749.5
19. Duke - 725.3
20. UT Southwestern - 710.5
21. Emory - 703.8

To do good in both of these rankings, the medical school really has to be comprehensive in its excellence (i.e. not just be good in one speciality but in all of them). To make my rankings even more strict, only the primary affiliates of each medical school are considered. If the medical school had more than one primary affiliate ranked, then the highest ranked primary affiliate was used (this happend mostly to Harvard).
 
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Hey guys, I have a question about financial aid.

I was awarded $1500 for a federal work study program. Have any of yall done federal work study? is it worth the loss in study time. $1500 doesnt seem like much and i think it maybe better to just decline it and take out more in stafford loans. opinions?

tia
 
danny317 said:
Hey guys, I have a question about financial aid.

I was awarded $1500 for a federal work study program. Have any of yall done federal work study? is it worth the loss in study time. $1500 doesnt seem like much and i think it maybe better to just decline it and take out more in stafford loans. opinions?

tia
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There are some easy jobs that you can do. I know several people that actually use it.
 
quick question. yall think its a good idea to pay the interest on the stafford loans while in school?

6.8% is gonna hurt but i dont want the interest to be added to the principal when i graduate.

what are yall gonna do?
 
If you have the money to pay off the interest, why don't you take that much less in loans? That way you don't have to worry about having any interest at all. :D

Either way, we're going to be really busy these next four years to worry about working and paying off the interest. What I'm planning on doing is letting the interest accrue through medical school and residency and then when I'm making an attending's salary, I'll pay back a lot more than what's required monthly.

For example, I calculated my cost of attendance to be around $130k for all four years. This is taking into account maximum subsidized Staffords (8,500 * 4) and assuming you get no other types of aid. The balance by the time you graduate from medical school would grow to $148k. This takes into account the yearly timing of when you get the loans and the 6.8% per annum.

Now if you do a 10 year repayment plan (from the time you end medical school) on a consolidated principal of $148k, your total principal + interest after ten years is $204k. Yikes, that's a lot of interest! But my point is that you accrue less interest during school, 18k roughly, versus during your repayment period, which is $56k more. So while interest that accrues early does hurt you more, I'm not going to worry about it until much later on.

If you want me to run more specific numbers or scenarios for you, shoot me a PM.
 
I was wondering when does baylor get our coat size for the white coat ceremony. I know the ceremony is at mid August, but some of the schools that I was accepted before baylor already have asked me about my size. Anyone?...
 
benjjang751 said:
I was wondering when does baylor get our coat size for the white coat ceremony. I know the ceremony is at mid August, but some of the schools that I was accepted before baylor already have asked me about my size. Anyone?...
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You get fitted during orientation, and recieve it shortly there after--at least that's what they did my first year, many moons ago :rolleyes:
 
Hmm, I'm not sure about the coats but it looks like our booklist for the first semester has just come out: http://www.bcm.edu/osa/2013/?PMID=11734

I think I count... 15 books?? Can any of the upperclassmen enlighten us on who many of these we actually need?
 
TheElement said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about the coats but it looks like our booklist for the first semester has just come out: http://www.bcm.edu/osa/2013/?PMID=11734

I think I count... 15 books?? Can any of the upperclassmen enlighten us on who many of these we actually need?
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a lot of those are different than what we had.

I would definitely say that Junq and Costanzo are awesome. The rest you might want to wait and see. You can always read the books in the library.
 
TheElement said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about the coats but it looks like our booklist for the first semester has just come out: http://www.bcm.edu/osa/2013/?PMID=11734

I think I count... 15 books?? Can any of the upperclassmen enlighten us on who many of these we actually need?
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So clearly this may be a bit of antiquated advice, seeing as though I just graduated, but definitely Junq (Histology) and an Anatomy Atlas. I would wait on the other books and see how detailed the syllabus is for that particular subject. Usually people would buy the books if they were having trouble grasping the concept or needed more background info to put everything into perspective. And even then, some people would just buy a review book. It will be very very difficult/frustrating trying to keep up while also reading the classic texts for all of the various disciplines that you cover. Remember those books that they lists are generally 500-1000 pages each of dense reading.
 
TheElement said:
Hmm, I'm not sure about the coats but it looks like our booklist for the first semester has just come out: http://www.bcm.edu/osa/2013/?PMID=11734

I think I count... 15 books?? Can any of the upperclassmen enlighten us on who many of these we actually need?
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Do any of you have suggestions for helpful books that are NOT on the list? As in, any specific review books that everyone/many people use for a subject?

Thanks!
 
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