Bad interview: Is it worth complaining about?

[WolverineDoc13]

Happy MLK Day! Time for some university symposiums...

so I just had the WORST interview ever. Now, I've read the worst interview responses thread on the allopathic page (really funny), but that's not why it was bad. I interview really well, usually. However, this time, the interviewer made the experience really bad for me. It made a really bad impression on the school where I interviewed this past Friday. Here's why:

First, he appeared disinterested in my application and in me. As, I started to explain what brought me to medicine, he gave me contorted and strange looks. Maybe he was confused?

Then, he asked me about my passions within health care, and I mentioned my studies on racial and ethnic disparities in health care. I wanted to illustrate that discrimination in health care does exist. To provide an example, I cited an article chronicling the multiple studies done on the black/African-American infant mortality rate and how it is so much higher than the white/caucasian infant mortality rate and how it resembles that of third world countries. There have been some cross studies done, which factor in socioeconomic status and other factors that show that even in rich neighborhoods, rich black people still have higher infant mortality rates, so many officials are starting to conclude that racisim in health care may be a factor for these higher rates.

He nodded his head and said that he believes that racism isn't a factor with that issue and that he believes black people have higher rates because they live unhealthy lifestyles, eat bad, fried food, and seldom exercise. He also mentioned obesity and how it plays a large factor (no pun intended) in infant mortality (which has nothing to do with black people), and how it tends to be genetic. Keep in mind, I'm black, and this really offended me, but of course, it was an interview, so I tried to stay as cordial as I could without getting too upset.

Now, that wasn't the only thing: He didn't know what LGBT was. He didn't know what the MCAT was out of (he thought it was out of 40 points). He said my personal statement was "typical" of med applicants and he wanted me to mention more health-related experiences and my research projects (even though my focus was on a shadowing experience I had). He was all kinds of wrong.

Now, I'm already in other med schools, so I'm not trippin'. (I tend to not speak proper English when I get riled up, so maybe I am trippin')

Do you think this is worth calling the school to complain about? or is this experience pretty benign? What do you think? Have you encountered this before in your interviews?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted74029]

I think it was pretty obvious the guy was just trying to see how you would react in an uncomfortable situation, and I hope I'm wrong but it seems as if you didn't do so well. Interviewers do crazy things like that all the time to see if you will keep your bearings when someone presses your buttons. Good luck this cycle but next time don't take something like that personal, its all a part of the process.

 

[MarylandDude]

I think it was pretty obvious the guy was just trying to see how you would react in an uncomfortable situation, and I hope I'm wrong but it seems as if you didn't do so well. Interviewers do crazy things like that all the time to see if you will keep your bearings when someone presses your buttons. Good luck this cycle but next time don't take something like that personal, its all a part of the process.

Agree. I had an interview where the interviewer was unwilling to let me fully answer any of the questions he posed. He cut me off in the middle of my responses and moved on to the next question. It got to the point where I started speaking at inconceivable speeds in hopes to circumvent the interruptions (I thought I was going to swallow my tongue). The guy couldn’t help but to completely disagree with anything and everything I said and was persistent in his endeavor to prove that I didn’t know much about my research. I kept a smile on my face throughout the interview, wrote him a thank you letter a day after, and what do you know? I got in 2 months later.

 

[njbmd]

I think it was pretty obvious the guy was just trying to see how you would react in an uncomfortable situation, and I hope I'm wrong but it seems as if you didn't do so well. Interviewers do crazy things like that all the time to see if you will keep your bearings when someone presses your buttons. Good luck this cycle but next time don't take something like that personal, its all a part of the process.

Unfortunately for the OP, this poster above is likely correct. That interviewer was deliberately putting the OP in an uncomfortable situation to get a reaction. It's a common thing at many medical school interviews and like it or not, you need to be prepared for this type of situation. Learn to handle it and MarylandDude gave you some good tips and hints.

To the OP:
I wouldn't send a complaint as this might not be in your best interests. Chalk this up to experience and see what happens. The worst case scenario is that you have this experience and you will be prepared if it happens at another interview.

The best case is that interviews are never as bad as you would believe. You are far too nervous and emotionally involved to be able to be "objective" about these types of experience. In short, you likely did just fine within the context of this type of interview and you may get an acceptance letter.

 

[What up doc]

Happy MLK Day! Time for some university symposiums...

so I just had the WORST interview ever. Now, I've read the worst interview responses thread on the allopathic page (really funny), but that's not why it was bad. I interview really well, usually. However, this time, the interviewer made the experience really bad for me. It made a really bad impression on the school where I interviewed this past Friday. Here's why:

First, he appeared disinterested in my application and in me. As, I started to explain what brought me to medicine, he gave me contorted and strange looks. Maybe he was confused?

Then, he asked me about my passions within health care, and I mentioned my studies on racial and ethnic disparities in health care. I wanted to illustrate that discrimination in health care does exist. To provide an example, I cited an article chronicling the multiple studies done on the black/African-American infant mortality rate and how it is so much higher than the white/caucasian infant mortality rate and how it resembles that of third world countries. There have been some cross studies done, which factor in socioeconomic status and other factors that show that even in rich neighborhoods, rich black people still have higher infant mortality rates, so many officials are starting to conclude that racisim in health care may be a factor for these higher rates.

He nodded his head and said that he believes that racism isn't a factor with that issue and that he believes black people have higher rates because they live unhealthy lifestyles, eat bad, fried food, and seldom exercise. He also mentioned obesity and how it plays a large factor (no pun intended) in infant mortality (which has nothing to do with black people), and how it tends to be genetic. Keep in mind, I'm black, and this really offended me, but of course, it was an interview, so I tried to stay as cordial as I could without getting too upset.

Now, that wasn't the only thing: He didn't know what LGBT was. He didn't know what the MCAT was out of (he thought it was out of 40 points). He said my personal statement was "typical" of med applicants and he wanted me to mention more health-related experiences and my research projects (even though my focus was on a shadowing experience I had). He was all kinds of wrong.

Now, I'm already in other med schools, so I'm not trippin'. (I tend to not speak proper English when I get riled up, so maybe I am trippin')

Do you think this is worth calling the school to complain about? or is this experience pretty benign? What do you think? Have you encountered this before in your interviews?

sorry 2 hear that man. i think u handled it well. i prolly woulda kirked out ha. hope it works out 4 the best.

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree with most of the above posts.
The interviewer was giving you counterarguments to what you were trying to explain to him. This is a common interview technique. They are trying to see how you will react to someone who challenges you. Patients, their family members, other doctors, nurses, etc. WILL do things that irk you and make you uncomfortable and even angry, so being able to handle that is important.
If you had said there was NO racism in medicine, he would have probably argued the opposite.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

I think it was pretty obvious the guy was just trying to see how you would react in an uncomfortable situation, and I hope I'm wrong but it seems as if you didn't do so well. Interviewers do crazy things like that all the time to see if you will keep your bearings when someone presses your buttons. Good luck this cycle but next time don't take something like that personal, its all a part of the process.

Thank you to everyone for your comments. Some follow up:


#1: I thought of the possibility of his playing devil's advocate as well, but he didn't mention those stereotypical comments about African-Americans and lifestyle as a "what if" or "let me suggest something different" type of comment. I really don't think he said this as a counterargument to put me on edge at all. He said it as if it were fact. He generalized the entire African-American community and labeled them as unhealthy, obese patients who basically deserve to have high infant mortality rates. (Basically, it's not what he said. It's how he said it.)

#2: I think I handled the situation well. I didn't flip out at the interviewer. I still handled his "counterarguments" in a cordial and understanding manner and indicated that even though he had those viewpoints, I still think differently. I didn't get upset at his comments until after the interview.

#3: Honestly, I'm not concerned with how the interview affects my admission to this school. My question concerns letting this doctor continue to say such racist comments to other medical applicants, because it tarnishes the image of that particular school. I think it would be irresponsible on my part to hear a blatantly racist comment from someone and not respond to it. The obvious power dynamic doesn't matter to me in this instance.

#4: I honestly don't care if my admission to this school is in trouble or not because my view of this school has been tarnished enough. Plus, I have four acceptances under my belt. I just can't let these comments go unnoticed by the admissions office. It may turn qualified applicants (like me) away from their school, especially URM applicants.


Any more thoughts? I posted this on the URM forum for a reason.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

Agree. I had an interview where the interviewer was unwilling to let me fully answer any of the questions he posed. He cut me off in the middle of my responses and moved on to the next question. It got to the point where I started speaking at inconceivable speeds in hopes to circumvent the interruptions (I thought I was going to swallow my tongue). The guy couldn’t help but to completely disagree with anything and everything I said and was persistent in his endeavor to prove that I didn’t know much about my research. I kept a smile on my face throughout the interview, wrote him a thank you letter a day after, and what do you know? I got in 2 months later.

I'm sorry this happened to you. That happened to me before in other interviews where the interviewer interjects (usually it happens because of time constraints) or where the interviewer challenges my ethical arguments. However, what made this situation different for me, was how racially charged his arguments were, which I consider inappropriate.

 

[WhizoMD]

he was most likely doing it on purpose to see how you would react. So if that was the case his intent was to t you off.

And if that wasn't the case then know that your opinion on a matter isn't the only opinion, there are always going to be some people who disagree.
Like me for instance, I don't think there is blatant racism in medicine, I see it as something where an array of factors are at work (ie. education, family planning, access to healthy food etc.). You may not agree with it but its an opinion.....

 

[cpants]

While you may not agree with his opinion, he isn't necessarily racist because he believes that other factors could explain the infant mortality statistics. Keep in mind that, while you believe his statements were racist and inflammatory, perhaps he felt the same way about the statements you were making. While you didn't intend it that way, he could have taken your opinions on racism in medicine as an attack on him or his profession.

The obesity statements are true. African Americans, particularly African American women, are much more likely to be overweight/obese than whites and other minorities. I do not know whether or not that contributes to the disproportionate infant mortality.

 

[deleted74029]

Thank you to everyone for your comments. Some follow up:


#1: I thought of the possibility of his playing devil's advocate as well, but he didn't mention those stereotypical comments about African-Americans and lifestyle as a "what if" or "let me suggest something different" type of comment. I really don't think he said this as a counterargument to put me on edge at all. He said it as if it were fact. He generalized the entire African-American community and labeled them as unhealthy, obese patients who basically deserve to have high infant mortality rates. (Basically, it's not what he said. It's how he said it.)

#2: I think I handled the situation well. I didn't flip out at the interviewer. I still handled his "counterarguments" in a cordial and understanding manner and indicated that even though he had those viewpoints, I still think differently. I didn't get upset at his comments until after the interview.

#3: Honestly, I'm not concerned with how the interview affects my admission to this school. My question concerns letting this doctor continue to say such racist comments to other medical applicants, because it tarnishes the image of that particular school. I think it would be irresponsible on my part to hear a blatantly racist comment from someone and not respond to it. The obvious power dynamic doesn't matter to me in this instance.

#4: I honestly don't care if my admission to this school is in trouble or not because my view of this school has been tarnished enough. Plus, I have four acceptances under my belt. I just can't let these comments go unnoticed by the admissions office. It may turn qualified applicants (like me) away from their school, especially URM applicants.


Any more thoughts? I posted this on the URM forum for a reason.

Using a "let me suggest something different" approach would have been much too cordial for what he was probably trying to accomplish. And forgive me for presuming that you didn't do well you just gave off a pretty intense vibe in your first post that I figured you probably had in your interview as well.

 

[redlight]

why let one person's views tarnish the school's reputation in your eyes?
even if we assume he was a bad egg, i think you would be remiss to think most/all institutions don't have people with "odd" or "biased" views on issues central to you.

also, i don't know if it's because i'm not reading you well enough, or you diluted the experience in your post, but the interviewer didn't sound bad at all [but i wasnt there so my vantage point is severely limited]. i don't think citing the fact that infant mortality rates for blacks are high across the board of other demographics is in itself indisputable evidence proving there is racism/decrimination in the healthcare system. such data can suggest discrimination, but it's hardly proof..

if i heard that i'd argue it's validity. im not saying racism/disrcimination doesnt exist, but im saying many times minorities are very quick to conlude racism, so id be cautious of such statements. i mean, think about what you are saying. you are saying the health professions field on a whole is biased against saving the lives of minority infants.. thats a pretty heavy statement, so i understand the interviewer's reason for citing other reasons such as "unhealthy lifestyles" and the like.. not saying he is correct, or that that statement is PC, but i think he has a right to make such arguments (if of course he can point to legitamate data or extensive research). in fact, i think there is significant data citing that minorities are at higher risks for all these diet and genetics related diseases.conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, etc.

i think ejay was correct in saying the interviewer was trying to see how you act under pressure or when you are faced with someone who disagrees with your views.. i guess he wanted to see you to back your claims and defend yourself.. and he wanted to correct, what i suppose he saw as, misconceptions on your part.

 

[MarylandDude]

I'm sorry this happened to you. That happened to me before in other interviews where the interviewer interjects (usually it happens because of time constraints) or where the interviewer challenges my ethical arguments. However, what made this situation different for me, was how racially charged his arguments were, which I consider inappropriate.

I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience too but remember that as an interviewee, it is especially important to stray away from any type of racial essentialism. It is no secret that interviewers love the idealistic pre-meds who believe that all Doctor are devoted to being faithful servants to human kind. Your response did not only stray away from the typical idealism, but also alluded to the LBJ era neo-liberal ideology that statistical racial disparities are due to racial discriminations.

Your comments were as much a generalization based on facts as his were. The main difference between your statements and his is the fact that racial history deems him the natural oppressor and you the naturally oppressed. This is not to say that his comments weren't racially motivated, but it is an attempt to give you a different perspective on the situation. As an African American, who feels that he has been discriminated against many times because of his race, I can sympathize with you and I know how much it hurts, but I also know how important it is not to immediately assume race to be a factor (like red light said). If I was you I would sleep on it for a couple days, and if your mind doesn't change than by all means go ahead and send the school a notice.

 

[scarletgirl777]

I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience too but remember that as an interviewee, it is especially important to stray away from any type of racial essentialism. It is no secret that interviewers love the idealistic pre-meds who believe that all Doctor are devoted to being faithful servants to human kind. Your response did not only stray away from the typical idealism, but also alluded to the LBJ era neo-liberal ideology that statistical racial disparities are due to racial discriminations.

Your comments were as much a generalization based on facts as his were. The main difference between your statements and his is the fact that racial history deems him the natural oppressor and you the naturally oppressed. This is not to say that his comments weren't racially motivated, but it is an attempt to give you a different perspective on the situation. As an African American, who feels that he has been discriminated against many times because of his race, I can sympathize with you and I know how much it hurts, but I also know how important it is not to immediately assume race to be a factor (like red light said). If I was you I would sleep on it for a couple days, and if your mind doesn't change than by all means go ahead and send the school a notice.

Wow, all the comments in these threads were so great. I second all of them.

I'd also like to add, OP, that if you are serious about fighting racial and ethnic health disparities in your career, this kind of thing is going to happen all the time. Any statement you make has to have solid research to back it up, and it's normal and customary in research to question. If you're going to suggest a role of racism in these disparities, then you need to have solid proven documentation about the specific disparities and show evidence that suggests racism is a plausible factor. In the case of infant mortality, the interviewer's explanations honestly sound very plausible...how do you think racism is specifically playing a role here?

EDIT: I would also like to say that I had an interview where I brought up disparities and mentioned a lack of cultural competence as playing a role. The interviewer was very adamant that the cause of these disparities could mostly be traced back to the patients, and seemed to imply that it's very difficult for physicians to work with these patients, citing lack of education, access to transportation to the hospital etc. But it turned out fine--we both remained cordial, and I got accepted 2 months later. Did I think that reflected badly on the institution? I'd already had an inkling before I applied that of the schools that I applied to, this one was probably less focused on issues of urban or minority health. But I'd never assume that the personality or opinions of ONE faculty member reflected the entire school.

 

[19nbj58]

Wow, all the comments in these threads were so great. I second all of them.

I'd also like to add, OP, that if you are serious about fighting racial and ethnic health disparities in your career, this kind of thing is going to happen all the time. Any statement you make has to have solid research to back it up, and it's normal and customary in research to question. If you're going to suggest a role of racism in these disparities, then you need to have solid proven documentation about the specific disparities and show evidence that suggests racism is a plausible factor. In the case of infant mortality, the interviewer's explanations honestly sound very plausible...how do you think racism is specifically playing a role here?

EDIT: I would also like to say that I had an interview where I brought up disparities and mentioned a lack of cultural competence as playing a role. The interviewer was very adamant that the cause of these disparities could mostly be traced back to the patients, and seemed to imply that it's very difficult for physicians to work with these patients, citing lack of education, access to transportation to the hospital etc. But it turned out fine--we both remained cordial, and I got accepted 2 months later. Did I think that reflected badly on the institution? I'd already had an inkling before I applied that of the schools that I applied to, this one was probably less focused on issues of urban or minority health. But I'd never assume that the personality or opinions of ONE faculty member reflected the entire school.

Same exact situation transpired at one of my interviews. Before formulating responses to potential questions, its important to think about both sides of the argument and play devils advocate from time to time. It allows for sound, intellectually honest answers which are extremely helpful in an interview setting.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

why let one person's views tarnish the school's reputation in your eyes?
even if we assume he was a bad egg, i think you would be remiss to think most/all institutions don't have people with "odd" or "biased" views on issues central to you.

You're right. The views of one person shouldn't affect my views on an entire school. However, you have to admit that once you get a bad feeling/experience from a school it's hard to shake it, yet the "right" thing to do would be to not judge the entire school on one person's actions.

if i heard that i'd argue it's validity. im not saying racism/disrcimination doesnt exist, but im saying many times minorities are very quick to conlude racism, so id be cautious of such statements. i mean, think about what you are saying. you are saying the health professions field on a whole is biased against saving the lives of minority infants.. thats a pretty heavy statement, so i understand the interviewer's reason for citing other reasons such as "unhealthy lifestyles" and the like.. not saying he is correct, or that that statement is PC, but i think he has a right to make such arguments (if of course he can point to legitamate data or extensive research). in fact, i think there is significant data citing that minorities are at higher risks for all these diet and genetics related diseases.conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, etc.

[random thought] I agree that many minorities (myself included) can overreact when it comes to interpreting racism. However, on the flip side, many minorities, I think, are quick to shrug off racist actions as normal or to create rational explanations for racist behavior. That sounds like complacency to me. I think of this youtube clip from Fresh Prince whenever I think of what is "racist" or what is not. Check it out. I love this show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB9uIY1r1Ls

Back on track -- Also, I may have not explained what I said clearly, but that's not what I'm saying about the health care field. I never said everyone in that field are out to get minorities or racism is the only reason for these issues. I just mentioned that research suggests that racism and discrimination play a factor in the differences in infant mortality rates. (I can even cite the articles/research that prove it.)

Overall, everyone, thanks for your comments. They are great responses, and I've given much thought to all of your suggestions and reactions. SDN is such a great place. In retrospect, I think I did overreact to what the interviewer suggested as racist because (1) I've heard those stereotypes all my life and (2) he made his comments with as little tact as possible. (Again, it's not what he said, it's HOW he said it.) However, this is just good prep for those in the health care system who have much more conservative views than I.

Despite my misinterpretation of his comment, I still got an uncomfortable vibe from the interviewer, the school, and its environment. Now to my original question of reporting this interviewer to the school: I'm still on the fence. Though, I understand the reasons for not contacting the school. I'm not entirely convinced that his actions were benign enough to not warrant a notice to the school. I'll take MarylandDude's suggestion and sleep on it. I think MLK day and Obama's inauguration are contributing to my thoughts on this issue.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

Wow, all the comments in these threads were so great. I second all of them.

I'd also like to add, OP, that if you are serious about fighting racial and ethnic health disparities in your career, this kind of thing is going to happen all the time. Any statement you make has to have solid research to back it up, and it's normal and customary in research to question. If you're going to suggest a role of racism in these disparities, then you need to have solid proven documentation about the specific disparities and show evidence that suggests racism is a plausible factor. In the case of infant mortality, the interviewer's explanations honestly sound very plausible...how do you think racism is specifically playing a role here?

You are absolutely right. I do have solid research to back it up. Here it is. Food for thought:

http://www.arc.org/racewire/030210z_kashef.html
(Persistent peril: Why African-American babies have the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world)

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/29/4203
(Racism may affect infant mortality rates)

Both of these articles cite infant mortality research projects that have controlled for "poverty, housing, employment, medical risk, abuse, social support and so on." I even spoke with one of the researchers, who suggested that despite all those controllable factors, people still haven't figured out why this difference exists. Hence, many suggest racism, among other uncontrollable factors. jus sayin'

I wish I had time to cite the journal articles I read. Can you see how passionate I am about this issue. ha.

 

[redlight]

lol ouch man, now i'm carlton??
and, actually if i was an officer and a car was driving mad slow i would pull it over LOL
but no i'm no carlton banks haha.

and yea i know someone who turned down a top (3) school just because he had the impression his interviewer was racist..so i know what you mean how shaking a bad feeling/impression can be difficult.

and i didnt mean to say you were necessarily saying that the health profession is biased against saving black babies. i meant that's how someone COULD have interpreted your comments (but id obviously know you werent trying to say that) and it wouldnt be a stretch to assume as much.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

lol ouch man, now i'm carlton??
and, actually if i was an officer and a car was driving mad slow i would pull it over LOL
but no i'm no carlton banks haha.

and yea i know someone who turned down a top (3) school just because he had the impression his interviewer was racist..so i know what you mean how shaking a bad feeling/impression can be difficult.

and i didnt mean to say you were necessarily saying that the health profession is biased against saving black babies. i meant that's how someone COULD have interpreted your comments (but id obviously know you werent trying to say that) and it wouldnt be a stretch to assume as much.

OH NO! I didn't mean that, lol. That episode just always comes up when I think about the issue because it sticks in my head. Fresh Prince has that effect on me. I got mad when they started showing it on Nick at Nite. It made me feel old. haha

 

[redlight]

OH NO! I didn't mean that, lol. That episode just always comes up when I think about the issue because it sticks in my head. Fresh Prince has that effect on me. I got mad when they started showing it on Nick at Nite. It made me feel old. haha

ok cool, i was getting worried for a sec.

thats funny; ive only seen it on nick@nite.

i loved fresh prince tho. great stuff. wish they'd never stopped making it..

 

[scarletgirl777]

You are absolutely right. I do have solid research to back it up. Here it is. Food for thought:

http://www.arc.org/racewire/030210z_kashef.html
(Persistent peril: Why African-American babies have the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world)

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/29/4203
(Racism may affect infant mortality rates)

Both of these articles cite infant mortality research projects that have controlled for "poverty, housing, employment, medical risk, abuse, social support and so on." I even spoke with one of the researchers, who suggested that despite all those controllable factors, people still haven't figured out why this difference exists. Hence, many suggest racism, among other uncontrollable factors. jus sayin'

I wish I had time to cite the journal articles I read. Can you see how passionate I am about this issue. ha.

Ok, how would racism play a role here? It's one thing to argue that subconsciously doctors treat patients differently and that results in different health outcomes--but infant mortality? I guess doctors could subconsciously be giving poorer prenatal care--but you'd need evidence to make that kind of claim.

I happen to think that racism definitely plays a role in disparities and have seen specific examples of disparities that lead me to suspect that, but you have to be tactful to in how you present your points. In my personal experience, it's best to do it using that word as little as possible.

 

[cpants]

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/29/4203

Black infant mortality is a complicated puzzle that includes poverty, poor nutrition, inadequate prenatal care, teen pregnancy, heredity, high blood pressure, stress, obesity, low birth weights and prematurity. However, some neonatologists and child health advocates have pushed for more research to get behind the social reasons why these factors seem to take a higher toll on African-American infants than they do on other babies.

Even the articles you posted do not claim that racism is responsible for the disparate infant mortality. The conclusion seems to be that more research is needed, but race could play a role. So you concluded that racism is a main cause, while many other people look at the facts and conclude that something else is.

It is not acceptable to form medical opinions based on articles from political publications. Now that we are medical students, we are expected to read and evaluate the primary research ourselves, or to at least use a review article which takes into account the quality of the studies. These articles do not even cite research at all.

 

[Dr Lyss]

I'll try to find the title of it but it escapes me right now. There was a video series that discussed the effects of racism in health care & claimed that the stress caused by racism is resulting in prematurity, low birth weights and higher infant mortality in the Black community. It was really interesting & actually had some interesting data to back it up.

 

[WolverineDoc13]

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/29/4203
Even the articles you posted do not claim that racism is responsible for the disparate infant mortality. The conclusion seems to be that more research is needed, but race could play a role. So you concluded that racism is a main cause, while many other people look at the facts and conclude that something else is.

I never concluded that. In fact, I don't recall concluding anything. I said officials (not me) are starting to make that conclusion. The title of the article is "Racism may affect infant mortality rates," which suggests that racism may affect infant mortality rates, and when I find time, I'll find the journal article that I read that chronicles the effects of racism in health care. Those articles were a quick google search.

 

[strv04]

Again, it's not what he said, it's HOW he said it.

Attacking the tone of an argument is what happens when you can't attack the substance of an argument.


Concluding that racism is the causative factor in medical outcomes without running controlled studies showing poorer outcomes for black infants under care of white doctors compared to white infants under a white doctor (or black infants under black doctors) just shows that you either don't understand the scientific method, difference between association vs causation or are making conclusions based on your emotions which tell you that racism is a factor.

 

[cpants]

I never concluded that. In fact, I don't recall concluding anything. I said officials (not me) are starting to make that conclusion. The title of the article is "Racism may affect infant mortality rates," which suggests that racism may affect infant mortality rates, and when I find time, I'll find the journal article that I read that chronicles the effects of racism in health care. Those articles were a quick google search.

That's pretty weak. Which officials? The surgeon general? The heads of notable pediatric or ob associations? You could scrounge up a few doctors which will agree with almost anything. That doesn't mean that the argument holds any weight. Am I wrong that you brought up the conclusions of these 'officials' because they match your own opinions about infant mortality?

 

[WolverineDoc13]

Attacking the tone of an argument is what happens when you can't attack the substance of an argument.

That's pretty weak. Which officials? The surgeon general? The heads of notable pediatric or ob associations? You could scrounge up a few doctors which will agree with almost anything. That doesn't mean that the argument holds any weight. Am I wrong that you brought up the conclusions of these 'officials' because they match your own opinions about infant mortality?

*sigh* Obviously, this isn't going anywhere. I didn't create this thread to debate infant mortality rates in the black community. My race politics obviously differ from yours. I wanted advice on how to deal with an offensive interviewer, but I already got that, so chill.

Believe what you think, y'all.

 

[WaterBird]

I still got an uncomfortable vibe from the interviewer, the school, and its environment. Now to my original question of reporting this interviewer to the school: I'm still on the fence. Though, I understand the reasons for not contacting the school. I'm not entirely convinced that his actions were benign enough to not warrant a notice to the school. I'll take MarylandDude's suggestion and sleep on it. I think MLK day and Obama's inauguration are contributing to my thoughts on this issue.

Thanks again, guys.

Hey WolverineDoc,

I had a similar experience with an interviewer who interrupted, told me my answers to ethics questions were wrong, and insisted on referring to my SO by the wrong pronoun I wasn't so much worried about getting since I had a kick ass interview with the dean, but I was annoyed to be treated that way and i let it totally mess with my ability to answer ethics questions for the next interview.

That school had an anonymous interview feedback form, which I filled out with some specific, clearly worded complaints about this interviewer. It was good to get it off of my chest, but I definitely didn't have great feelings about the school. But I did feel more able to let go of the incident though, and I highly recommend that you find some way of letting the school know what happened, either anonymously now or after you get a decision non-anonymously. Definitely some interviewers like to be up in your face, but it sounds like your interviewer crossed a serious line. Most med-schools really do care about diversity, so I think the school will care if their representatives are not being welcoming of people who can add to that diversity.

I got in to the school where I had the annoying interviewer 6 weeks later and have had to re-evaluate my feelings about the school because it is both in state (and thus cheap) and a great location for my SO's career. It's taken some effort, but at this point I have let go of that experience and feel more like I can evaluate the school based on all of the other stuff I know about it.

Good luck with whatever you choose

 

[md2bknox]

hey,
I would have to say, if you feel in your heart it was racially geared I would go ahead and say something. People of his status tend to think they can say what they would like and have no problems and no one would no otherwise. If you really don't care about this school then have at it. Make it known your right, think about it you don't want future generations to have to go through it. It will be up to that school to dictate what he is doing is wrong or not. good luck

 

[cpants]

*sigh* Obviously, this isn't going anywhere. I didn't create this thread to debate infant mortality rates in the black community. My race politics obviously differ from yours. I wanted advice on how to deal with an offensive interviewer, but I already got that, so chill.

Believe what you think, y'all.

Ok. If you don't want to back up your opinion that's fine. But you shouldn't be surprised that you get challenged, and challenged hard, when you cite something as controversial as correcting racism in medicine as a motivating factor for applying, and then try to back up its existance with a lame "some officials believe..." cop-out.

Also, I know you keep saying it's not what he said but how he said it. I'd think hard before you accuse someone of racism because of a condescending attitude. Take a look at the pre-med forums. Interview horror stories are a dime a dozen, with plenty of condescention and down-right nastiness from interviewers. His attitude could have been less about you being black, and more about you being a know-it-all pre-med. If he truly made offensive, prejudiced comments, by all means report it to the university.

 

[MarylandDude]

OH NO! I didn't mean that, lol. That episode just always comes up when I think about the issue because it sticks in my head. Fresh Prince has that effect on me. I got mad when they started showing it on Nick at Nite. It made me feel old. haha

Haha see, I was too busy watching reruns of the Huxtable family on the Cosby show . That probably explains why I have this deep admiration for OB/GYNs.

 

[JStephens]

Ive read your post and from what you posted, I don't see anything the interviewer said that was offensive. Most of it can be cited as having some truth if one wanted to verify it. I think that you may not hold yourself in the best manner when you're faced with direct opposition on an issue you feel strongly about. Don't blame the interviewer or the school. I think you're so caught up in the race issue that it's more of an issue at times where it shoudn't be. But that's just my opinion

 

[Dr Lyss]

Ive read your post and from what you posted, I don't see anything the interviewer said that was offensive. Most of it can be cited as having some truth if one wanted to verify it. I think that you may not hold yourself in the best manner when you're faced with direct opposition on an issue you feel strongly about. Don't blame the interviewer or the school. I think you're so caught up in the race issue that it's more of an issue at times where it shoudn't be. But that's just my opinion

Look no one but the OP was sitting in that interview room. If the OP felt offended he is entitled to that. It is not helpful or beneficial in anyway for people to leave posts stating they don't think it was offensive and to suck it up. This isn't about what YOU think or feel. Save the negativity for pre-allo because it isn't welcome here.

If you have something helpful for the OP or advice on how to handle confrontational interviews then feel free to comment. Otherwise, keep it to yourself & learn how to give constructive criticism. Just because it is an anonymous forum doesn't mean you have to be an internet gangster.

 

[JStephens]

Look no one but the OP was sitting in that interview room. If the OP felt offended he is entitled to that. It is not helpful or beneficial in anyway for people to leave posts stating they don't think it was offensive and to suck it up. This isn't about what YOU think or feel. Save the negativity for pre-allo because it isn't welcome here.

If you have something helpful for the OP or advice on how to handle confrontational interviews then feel free to comment. Otherwise, keep it to yourself & learn how to give constructive criticism. Just because it is an anonymous forum doesn't mean you have to be an internet gangster.

Let's just set the record straight, shall we?

Im no internet gangster, nor do I have huge E-balls because this is an anonymous. I say exactly what I mean and since I am entitled to my own opinion, I don't apologize for it. However, I do apologize to you and the OP if anything I have said and am about to say offends you because that is not my intention. Because things posted on the internet are often construed, ill break my post and thought process down so that all can understand it.

Ive read your post and from what you posted, I don't see anything the interviewer said that was offensive. Most of it can be cited as having some truth if one wanted to verify it.

I didn't see anything that the OP posted that I would consider offensive. Since I wasn't in the room, I can't say for sure. Even if I was there, what is offensive to you, or the OP may not be to me... Let's digress.

I think that you may not hold yourself in the best manner when you're faced with direct opposition on an issue you feel strongly about.

I said this based off the OP's admission that they got riled up because of the comments made by the interviewer. From the OP's text, nothing seemed derogatory or aimed at the OP, so I don't understand the anger.

I think you're so caught up in the race issue that it's more of an issue at times where it shoudn't be.

Again, this is just MY opinion... You know, the opinion I am entitled to and should be able to post in a non-derogatory manner without fear of retribution... Yea, that one. I don't personally know the OP, im basing my opinion of her their post and this IS constructive criticism. I said NOTHING wrong to the OP, I offered advise on how to not always jump to the defensive when asked a question or listening to a statement that pertains to the habits of a race of people.

 

[Dr Lyss]

Let's just set the record straight, shall we?

Im no internet gangster, nor do I have huge E-balls because this is an anonymous. I say exactly what I mean and since I am entitled to my own opinion, I don't apologize for it. However, I do apologize to you and the OP if anything I have said and am about to say offends you because that is not my intention. Because things posted on the internet are often construed, ill break my post and thought process down so that all can understand it.

I didn't see anything that the OP posted that I would consider offensive. Since I wasn't in the room, I can't say for sure. Even if I was there, what is offensive to you, or the OP may not be to me... Let's digress.

I didn't address my post only to you, but that's ok. I wasn't in any way offended but obviously you were - or maybe your tone is always condescending I can't really tell You don't have to break anything down for me but thanks anyway.

I said this based off the OP's admission that they got riled up because of the comments made by the interviewer. From the OP's text, nothing seemed derogatory or aimed at the OP, so I don't understand the anger.

Again, this is just MY opinion... You know, the opinion I am entitled to and should be able to post in a non-derogatory manner without fear of retribution... Yea, that one. I don't personally know the OP, im basing my opinion of her their post and this IS constructive criticism. I said NOTHING wrong to the OP, I offered advise on how to not always jump to the defensive when asked a question or listening to a statement that pertains to the habits of a race of people.

Again, nothing you said in your original post or reply was helpful to the OP or anyone else. If it's not helping the OP you are only listening to yourself talk. If my opinion is that you are super sensitive and must cry yourself to sleep at night it doesn't mean I have to share it. Now if i had advice about how to not be super sensitive & cry a lot then maybe it would be more favorable to the purpose of this forum. This forum is not about bashing people or sharing our opinions. It's about giving advice for those who need it. You are more than entitled to your opinion. I'm simply suggesting if you don't have anything nice/meaningful to say then don't post anything at all! It just creates drama. Honestly, I wasn't even really directing it at you but you were the last post. I just don't think the OP should get bashed & told he's being too sensitive when none of us can know that. All we know is how HE felt & you shouldn't invalidate how someone felt, whether it was justified or not. Just like everyone is entitled to their opinion, the OP is entitled to feel how he felt without having to hear crap about it.

Whew ok I'm off my soap box. I'm only asking for a drama free thread people!

 

[WolverineDoc13]

Ok. If you don't want to back up your opinion that's fine. But you shouldn't be surprised that you get challenged, and challenged hard, when you cite something as controversial as correcting racism in medicine as a motivating factor for applying, and then try to back up its existance with a lame "some officials believe..." cop-out.

Also, I know you keep saying it's not what he said but how he said it. I'd think hard before you accuse someone of racism because of a condescending attitude. Take a look at the pre-med forums. Interview horror stories are a dime a dozen, with plenty of condescention and down-right nastiness from interviewers. His attitude could have been less about you being black, and more about you being a know-it-all pre-med. If he truly made offensive, prejudiced comments, by all means report it to the university.

dude. You missed the point. Entirely. You're done.

Thank you to DrLys and Waterbird for actually posting a helpful, non-flaming contribution to this thread. *shock* I've decided to report the interviewer.

...and that's the last time I mention race in here. I learned that lesson quick. I wonder how many people in the URM forum are actually URMs.

 

[cpants]

From your original post.

Do you think this is worth calling the school to complain about? or is this experience pretty benign? What do you think? Have you encountered this before in your interviews?

You asked for opinions and advice on the situation. I tried to give you that. Apparently you only wanted to hear opinions which wouldn't challenge you or disagree with your plan to report the interviewer.

dude. You missed the point. Entirely. You're done.

So what was the point? You just wanted some moral support before going through with the plan you had from the beginning?

Anyway, best of luck to you.

 

[JStephens]

I didn't address my post only to you, but that's ok. I wasn't in any way offended but obviously you were - or maybe your tone is always condescending I can't really tell

I think you're probably right on this one, im sure my fiancee will chime in and back you 100% here . It really ins't intentional, it just comes out that way for some reason. That's something i'll have to work on.

Again, nothing you said in your original post or reply was helpful to the OP or anyone else. If it's not helping the OP you are only listening to yourself talk.

Fair enough

If my opinion is that you are super sensitive and must cry yourself to sleep at night it doesn't mean I have to share it. Now if i had advice about how to not be super sensitive & cry a lot then maybe it would be more favorable to the purpose of this forum.

I agree with you. I should have clarified what I meant for the OP to get out of my post.

This forum is not about bashing people or sharing our opinions.

But the OP asked for opinions. Specifically about if it was worth it to call the school and complain. If no one in this thread gave their opinion as it was requested by the OP, according to you we would be doing him a disservice because that's what the forum is for. No? I agree that the opinion doesn't have to sound like an attack or something.

I'm simply suggesting if you don't have anything nice/meaningful to say then don't post anything at all! It just creates drama.

I kind of agree with that, but just because something isn't nice doesn't mean it's not meaningful.

Honestly, I wasn't even really directing it at you but you were the last post. I just don't think the OP should get bashed & told he's being too sensitive when none of us can know that. All we know is how HE felt & you shouldn't invalidate how someone felt, whether it was justified or not.

I never meant to invalidate how the OP felt. If someone was talking to me and uttered the N-bomb, Id be upset. (It's happened).But depending on my setting and what I have going on, I may or may not show my disdain. The OP had ever right to feel angry/upset if it bothered him, but as previously stated, the interviewer was likely testing his composure under pressure/in a stressful situation. It's a mind game. That's all I mean my post to portray.

Just like everyone is entitled to their opinion, the OP is entitled to feel how he felt without having to hear crap about it.

I agree 100%.

 

[JStephens]

Thank you to DrLys and Waterbird for actually posting a helpful, non-flaming contribution to this thread. *shock* I've decided to report the interviewer.

Just curious, when you report him, what are you going to say specifically? Not flaming or anything, just trying to understand exactly what your complaint is going to be. I guess I don't really understand why race is so off-limits for you. You said it wasn't what he said, it's how he said it. But it sounds like both of you said your respective pieces the same way, but just didn't agree? MarylandDude said it best "Your comments were as much a generalization based on facts as his were". Im not bashing or trying to tell you that you're wrong, im just trying to understand better your thought process on how you declared what the interviewer said was a form of racism. I don't want to be quick to scream "That's racist" when it's not meant to be, but I don't want to shrug off people who say things with racist connotations either, I think that's one thing you and I both agree on.

...and that's the last time I mention race in here. I learned that lesson quick. I wonder how many people in the URM forum are actually URMs.

I am.

 

[mglavin]

I thought everyone is an urm according to the pie graph sticky except of course asians.